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The70’s
Well-Known Member
Its gotta be, from now on im only doing seedling in soil, i’ll save the castings and nutes for a plant that has a nice root structure
I want every grow to be the same :0/
- Thread starter The70’s
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Its gotta be, from now on im only doing seedling in soil, i’ll save the castings and nutes for a plant that has a nice root structure
Sativa1970
Well-Known Member
All strains can get burnt and seedlings are extra susceptible. If your starting soil is strait from the bag you are probably good. Assuming it in new, strait soils appropriate for cannabis. You don't want to just add a bunch of amendments to a seedling. After it is two or three weeks old you can top dress, up pot into a richer mix or start adding liquid nutrient.
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The70’s
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Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
If you are using soil straight from the bag for seedlings it's usually recommended to flush it out first before use so there's no nutes available straight away.
I usually recommend using seedling and cutting soil and certainly if one is growing automatics, a lot of people do be burning away roots on seedlings resulting in slow growth and expansion.
Now I did try cracking the seeds in amended water last time, with Great White Myco & Rhizotonic which does contain 0,6/0,2/0,6 NPK and used that to pre water the soil for the seedling and these plants took off like crazy
Here's one of them at 15 days.
Castings are mild enough that you could start seeds directly in them, but they can be too dense so fluffing them up a bit with perlite or something can help. So, castings aren't your problem, but nutes are generally too much for a seedling.
My seedling mix is equal parts castings, well aged compost, old soil and perlite. The castings bring microbes that start breaking down the other stuff so it starts to become available to the plant once it has mined what it can from the seed leaves.
The castings also help fight off damping off disease which can plague new sprouts, especially with a wet soil surface.
If you're getting consistently poor results you need to dial in your variables a bit better. Not every grow will be perfect, but you'll learn a bit every round that can be applied to future ones.
Keeping a journal on here and asking for advice along the way is a great way to accelerate your learning curve .
My two girls are 18” and 12” tall today. Crazy grows. Those fan leaves are big. Making the branches bend and sag. Going to top soon. Big girl has five nodes but am going to wait a bit longer. Have had no luck on cloning it the past. Might try putting in soil instead of my bubbler. I have used Clonex in the past. I cut a cross into stem then dipped it. Might just cut stem diagonal, dip it in the Clonex, then into the soil. I might get lucky this time. Happy Thanksgiving to one and all.
Cloning is hard until you find something that clicks for you. Everyone seems to have a favorite method. Mine is in my sig.
Sativa1970
Well-Known Member
I have not found any one method of cloning to be better or worse. Keep temp and RH close to 80 with early veg leval of light. Take twice as many cuttings as you want clones. That way you can just keep the healthiest ones.
A new issue has shown up. The largest plant has drooping leaves. Soil seemed dry on top. Many roots just below soil surface. By using the kelp tea twice early in this grow, have I created a plant that is in need of more water than I have ever experienced? Tonight I moved the small mist humidifier back into the tent. Last time I did this the RH spiked to 60% and the humidifier was on the lowest fan speed. But tonite I left the door open a foot, hoping this will alleviate that issue. What is the consensus on my problem?
Sativa1970
Well-Known Member
Picture and details on environment would help. Sounds like she is thirsty, not enough media for the roots, not watering often enough, humidity too low for the temp, or temp too low would be my initial guesses.
Had to go down and check on the girls early this am when I woke up. Big girl has rebounded some from the watering last night. Humidity is still low at 30%. Turned up the humidifier a bit. I have never seen this before so a bit confused. Actually took the 6” fan out of tent last night. 70 degrees in tent. Too dry of a soil will wick the RH right out of the air. Still learning…
Pitmaster
Well-Known Member
Get rid of the Happy Frog and use FF Ocean Forest for Your Cannabis grows. I have both and used both. Ocean Forest seems to be more suited for cannabis.
Sativa1970
Well-Known Member
60RH is where you want to be in veg. 70deg is on the chilly side. Five to 10 more deg warmer will make a noticeable difference in growth if you have a way to bump it up. If not, it will grow in that temp but slower and not as healthy. But the RH defiantly needs to go up. More air movement increases evaporation so you need more RH with more air movement. Why removing the fan helped, but not the best solution. Plants need air movement and RH.
Cool dry air is the defiantly the issue. Cool air slowing metabolism and will make the leaves curl down into claws if too cool. Dry air sucking moisture out before it can be used will make the leaves limp down with stiff tips.
Cool dry air is the defiantly the issue. Cool air slowing metabolism and will make the leaves curl down into claws if too cool. Dry air sucking moisture out before it can be used will make the leaves limp down with stiff tips.
It’s up to 75 temp and RH is 50%. I put the small oscillating 6” fan back in but up higher on the corner tent pole. Not blowing on plants or on pots. What I used to do was check the bottom levels of air pots with a q tip to see if they came out wet or dry. Got to go back to that again. Thanks for the tips. No more kelp this grow!
Gee64
Well-Known Member
If you are sprouting in organic soil you need myco to link the soil to the plant before the microbes are introduced, as myco manages the microbes for the plant.
Things like EWC and kelp will cause little ones grief in the 1st 10-14 days as the microbial action of the EWC, and the explosion of those microbes from eating the kelp throws ph out.
Myco creates rhizosphere ph and it sets it to whatever the plant asks for, and adjusts it accordingly and on the fly.
So you want a milder soil and to be a bit generous with the myco.
Then there is the seed itself. If you germinate it in soil then perfect
but if you are soaking or paper towelling until they crack you are losing the best part of the seeds immunities.
The seeds are formed on the mother plant and jam packed with dormant microbes specialized by Mom to be exactly the ones to feed the seed from the soil until myco establishes and takes over.
If you germinate outside of the soil most of those specialized microbes are lost in the glass of water or paper towel when they were actually meant to innoculate your starter soil. To create it's initial rhizosphere. It's Mother's Milk for plants.
EWC comes with it's own spectrum of microlife that will easily dominate a seeds internal microbe supply.
Don't ditch kelp altogether. After myco establishes itself and the microbes get organized kelp is a fantastic additive.
Hydrolysed, not emulsified fish fertilizer is a safe food for babies if you insist on feeding them, and it's myco's favorite health food so it's a win win.
If you choose hydrolysed fish ferts, mix it as per the instructions, don't add extra. Thats very important.
Also make sure the words emulsion and/or emulsified are not on the product label at all. Emulsified is very very different than hydrolysed. Don't fall for the marketing trick of "Hydrolysed Emulsion", it's just emulsion. It's not the right stuff.
If you grow synthetically none of this really applies as it all interferes with the synthetics unless you build a very cool hybrid system such as Bill uses.
If you want consistency you need to let the plant do it's thing. It has been consistent all on it's own for millions of years. It's us humans that are inconsistent.
Starting out by propogating the seeds internal microbes and letting myco handle it from there is the best shot at a plant's lifetime consistancy. It builds stress immunities that ward off a lot of the human inconsistencies. Por watering being at the top of that list.
Those microbes in combination with myco greatly regulate water intake at the root level. Another win in the battle against human inconsistencies.
Seeds can be tricky in organics until you get it figured, then they become simple. The seed knows what to do, it just needs myco. It's designed to link to myco.
Outdoors myco is everywhere in all soils waiting for a root and it links on day 1. Indoors your myco starts out as a dormant spore so it takes 10-14 days to propogate and link the plant to the soil. Once it's linked, so after you uppot your solo, bring on the EWC and kelp.
If you water her with fish ferts once a week for her lifetime myco will remain in tip-top shape.
And warmth/moisture. You need it. Seeds are triggered by it.
A heat mat and a dome until they stand up straight really help. Then you can remove the dome.
The heat pad removal depends on your ambient room temps, but babies like warmth. Late spring sunshine. Warm on the skin but not hot.
78F is my favorite seed popping temp but 80 works really well too, it's just more of a shock when you revert back to ambient room temps than 78F is.
Hope that helps a bit.
Things like EWC and kelp will cause little ones grief in the 1st 10-14 days as the microbial action of the EWC, and the explosion of those microbes from eating the kelp throws ph out.
Myco creates rhizosphere ph and it sets it to whatever the plant asks for, and adjusts it accordingly and on the fly.
So you want a milder soil and to be a bit generous with the myco.
Then there is the seed itself. If you germinate it in soil then perfect
but if you are soaking or paper towelling until they crack you are losing the best part of the seeds immunities. The seeds are formed on the mother plant and jam packed with dormant microbes specialized by Mom to be exactly the ones to feed the seed from the soil until myco establishes and takes over.
If you germinate outside of the soil most of those specialized microbes are lost in the glass of water or paper towel when they were actually meant to innoculate your starter soil. To create it's initial rhizosphere. It's Mother's Milk for plants.
EWC comes with it's own spectrum of microlife that will easily dominate a seeds internal microbe supply.
Don't ditch kelp altogether. After myco establishes itself and the microbes get organized kelp is a fantastic additive.
Hydrolysed, not emulsified fish fertilizer is a safe food for babies if you insist on feeding them, and it's myco's favorite health food so it's a win win.
If you choose hydrolysed fish ferts, mix it as per the instructions, don't add extra. Thats very important.
Also make sure the words emulsion and/or emulsified are not on the product label at all. Emulsified is very very different than hydrolysed. Don't fall for the marketing trick of "Hydrolysed Emulsion", it's just emulsion. It's not the right stuff.
If you grow synthetically none of this really applies as it all interferes with the synthetics unless you build a very cool hybrid system such as Bill uses.
If you want consistency you need to let the plant do it's thing. It has been consistent all on it's own for millions of years. It's us humans that are inconsistent.
Starting out by propogating the seeds internal microbes and letting myco handle it from there is the best shot at a plant's lifetime consistancy. It builds stress immunities that ward off a lot of the human inconsistencies. Por watering being at the top of that list.
Those microbes in combination with myco greatly regulate water intake at the root level. Another win in the battle against human inconsistencies.
Seeds can be tricky in organics until you get it figured, then they become simple. The seed knows what to do, it just needs myco. It's designed to link to myco.
Outdoors myco is everywhere in all soils waiting for a root and it links on day 1. Indoors your myco starts out as a dormant spore so it takes 10-14 days to propogate and link the plant to the soil. Once it's linked, so after you uppot your solo, bring on the EWC and kelp.
If you water her with fish ferts once a week for her lifetime myco will remain in tip-top shape.
And warmth/moisture. You need it. Seeds are triggered by it.
A heat mat and a dome until they stand up straight really help. Then you can remove the dome.
The heat pad removal depends on your ambient room temps, but babies like warmth. Late spring sunshine. Warm on the skin but not hot.
78F is my favorite seed popping temp but 80 works really well too, it's just more of a shock when you revert back to ambient room temps than 78F is.
Hope that helps a bit.
I start them in a towel on a heat pad. Happy Frog has the mico in it. I used to use Ocean Forest but was told that it was too coarse for seedlings. I used to mix HappyFrog with OceanForest and perlite. Now it’s just the HappyFrog. Tent is in the basement in a small room. Doing laundry today so going downstairs every hour, checking on the girls every time. When I used kelp on previous grows, it was never as strong as the last gallon was. When I start using it again it will be 1/2 strength. Thanks for the info.
Sativa1970
Well-Known Member
75-80 deg at 50RH is good for late veg but still a bit dry for early veg. RH 60-70 at that temp with the fan gently moving the leaves will make her vary happy. Kelp is full of amino acids, the building blocks for new cells. Defiantly will improve the plant growth if you keep using it in the correct PH zone.
gr865
Well-Known Member
I do two grows a year, one in the fall using clones from one seed, and then in the spring I take clones from the fall grow. I do 6 plants, 2 gallon Smart Pots, coco/perlite (70/30%), 5x5, 650 true watt LED.cIm not sure why i set myself up for the perfect grow when its rarely perfect. Crispy leaves here and there, floppy leaves in need of water, floppy leaves too much water, yellowing lack of N leaves…. I need to start my grows saying here we go, lets do our best today
Today im stressing about how this grow just seems stunted, its not, its just a damn weed Lol
Now I have been doing this method for a number of years now and I do my best to be consistent with both grows. But makes no different how consistent I try and be I still don't get the two grows to be the same, one always preforms better then the other.
Don't stress, remember it's just a damn weed,
Sativa1970
Well-Known Member
I have a climate controlled room and yes there is still a difference in the plants at different times of the year. If the lights, RH, air and media temp are regulated they are not the factors effecting the plants seasonally. My theory is barometric pressure. I have never tracked the BP in the room but it is the only change beyond my controls. To add to the confusion, plants are normally more productive with a higher BP. BP is higher in the cold outside winter months but that's when my growth slows, in the winter.I do two grows a year, one in the fall using clones from one seed, and then in the spring I take clones from the fall grow. I do 6 plants, 2 gallon Smart Pots, coco/perlite (70/30%), 5x5, 650 true watt LED.
Now I have been doing this method for a number of years now and I do my best to be consistent with both grows. But makes no different how consistent I try and be I still don't get the two grows to be the same, one always preforms better then the other.
Don't stress, remember it's just a damn weed,
Leaves are folding inward from sides on the smaller plant. Just at the top. RH is at 61%. Temp is 75. What causes this? I lowered the light a day ago. Too close, drying plant out? I went back and raised both lights to 24” above the top of both girls. Too far?