Hydro Grow Problems

[Sativa1970]

Still looks like mag deficiency symptoms. Chlorosis starting at the tip of older leaves moving down between the veins. Slight darkening of the roots. I know you are using calmag but in the res and in the plant are 2 different things. Should be over 70 deg in res and over 75 air temp? PH is over 5.3 but below 6.5? No high doses of potassium ? High PPMs? Any of these can cause mag lock out. Do the leaves feel thick and/or textured?

 

[013]

Botanicare also makes Hydroguard…. an enzyme used to treat res water

but those roots may need to be cleaned again….

did anyone ever figure out if the previous root staining was from nutes or root rot?

 

[bluter]

Do you think there is root rot too? Any way you know of to treat?

the root colour might be due to nute staining. the roots themselves didn't look bad to me otherwise, but i might not be seeing it.

you can fix a mild case with h202. i used to run h202 pretty much constant. its a super old school approach.

 

[bustedluck]

@013 I'm not sure. Only one person here said they thought it looked like root rot and they were basing that on supposedly seeing slime on top of my air stone in my last pic. I am not sure whether or not that's accurate though because literally, everyone else here is saying it doesn't look like it.

To be clear though, I am and always have been using hydro guard the entire grow.

 

[bustedluck]

I am gonna try cleaning the roots off in a washtub I think. We'll see what happens.

 

[bluter]

I am gonna try cleaning the roots off in a washtub I think. We'll see what happens.

are they slimy ?

if they don't feel slimy i'd leave them alone. running some hydroguard, z7, or h202 in the res will do a better job.

 

[Sativa1970]

Root rot gives a glossy look to roots and those look mate. Adding an oz of hydrogen peroxide won't hurt the plant. Were you adding some kind of bio enzymes in the res? If you add hydrogen peroxide to the res it can wipe out good enzymes too. Sterile res drop some in.
I haven't used the nutes you are using so maybe I am missing something. If someone has experience with this nute let me know if I am reading this wrong.

CNS17 is N and cal total 3_1_2 at 20 mil/gal
Cal mag with fe N total 2_0_0 at 3-5 ml/gal
Liquid karma stress stop .1-.1-.5 at 5-10ml/gal SDS Ingredients list;
Dolomite (20% cal, PH up),
potassium carbonate( K and PH up),
fish meal(NPK Cal and Mag),
sea weed extract(N and high Cal),
magnesium sulfate( Just what it says)

total nute ratio 5.1-1.1-2.5 but every part is loaded with calcium. High levels of calcium lock out all ammoniums, potassium and magnesium. Those 4 salts all work in a balance. One goes too high and the plant can not take up the others. I would drop the cal mag but it is 50% of your N with that formula. The liquid karma ingredients are a good way to boost a plant but they are not required nutes so that is what I would cut back to lower cal levels.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Highya busted!

Running GH line through my spreadsheet, it looks like the following mix:

7ml/gal FloraMicro
7ml/gal FloraGro
6ml/gal FloraBloom

provides the following nutrient profile:

154ppm N
48ppm P
181ppm K
113ppm Ca
49ppm Mg
2ppm S
2.3ppm Fe

Total calculated ppm of 551 - tds is bound to be higher due to non-nutritive additives (and the Guaranteed Analysis is just the minimums - they are allowed to vary from the label)

You might try this mix - it has pretty good ratios and would take you through flowering.

 

[FelipeBlu]

FWIW, the Flora line isn’t bad per se - ya just gotta be careful when it comes to their feed chart - it gets weird once you start adding KoolBloom in flower weeks 5 through 10 (e.g. week 9 provides 127N-164P!-297K!) - and try to refrain from adding everything they sell.

A good program would be:

Early veg
3ml/gal each:
66N-23P-82K-49Ca-23Mg

Mid-Veg
5ml/gal each:
110N-39P-137K-81Ca-38Mg

Late Veg through Bloom
7ml/gal each:
154N-54P-191K-113Ca-53Mg

 

[Sativa1970]

These are weeds. There is a pretty big margin from perfect grow to simply successful. Most of the time if you are having problems it is a minor detail overlooked, a math error, or over feeding. They can live for a week or two in just dechlorinated water with no signs of stress. More than once I got distracted and forgot I was doing a res change.

Once you get nutes dialed in res changes are not needed that often. I do every 30ish days in veg and every 35ish in flower. Have had 2 plants with minor root rot in the last decade. One the air pump failed mid summer and didn't spot it. The other was in the winter with a stuck res heater thermostat. It took it into the upper 90s. Both recovered and flowered fine.

When FelipeBlu mentioned GH I paged back to see that is what you started with. Quick math check. Full strength feeding late veg was around 1 table spoon or 3 teaspoons of nutrient per gallon. That is, all parts together came to 1 tablespoon per gallon +/- .5 teaspoon. So your 1/4 strength feeding should have been 3/4 teaspoon total after all nutes were combined per gallon.

The other thing I saw was you started with some light brown areas on lower leaves. You started adding calmag and a few days latter it was suddenly much worse on the lower leaves.

 

[bustedluck]

IDK guys I don't think it's my math. Originally I was using 1 teaspoon (5 ml) each per gallon. They appeared defficient at that amount, so I tried a while at the "aggressive veg" level from the bottle which is 3-2-1 teaspoon per gallon. That had pretty similar symptoms. Then I tried doing the 1-1-1 per gallon but with calmag, same issues.

Now I have moved on from GH to botanicare (to try and rule out human error because botanicare is a one-part nute) and am having the same symptoms. I start at 17 PPM, 100 PPM worth of cal mag bringing it to 117 PPM, then add enough botanicare nutes to bring up PPM to 600 (ish). Still have the same symptoms, but after switching, I am seeing the healthier looking plant is causing water level and PPM to fall now whereas before it was just sitting there. Other plant is still stagnant.

Having the same symptoms on two different nutes and knowing that I am at least close to the right amount based on PPM measurement, I can't help but feel there is something else causing the deficiency, such as root rot, especially knowing that my water temps were too high for too long while waiting on my chillers to arrive.

I am going to try and treat with h202 tomorrow and see how it goes. Any suggestions for how much to use? I can go back to GH if you guys think thats best but seems unrelated to how much nutes I am giving it since no matter how I change the formula it makes no difference.

Thanks!

 

[bluter]

Now I have moved on from GH to botanicare (to try and rule out human error because botanicare is a one-part nute) and am having the same symptoms.

you will need other nutes to finish it out. it's actually one part of a 2 part system. there is a bloom formula for flower. it'll be fine til then though.

you can just use the cal-mag you have. the plant won't care about the brand. most liquid cal-mag formulas are very similar.

I start at 17 PPM, 100 PPM worth of cal mag bringing it to 117 PPM, then add enough botanicare nutes to bring up PPM to 600 (ish). Still have the same symptoms, but after switching, I am seeing the healthier looking plant is causing water level and PPM to fall now whereas before it was just sitting there. Other plant is still stagnant.

give it a bit of time. sounds like things are turning around.

Having the same symptoms on two different nutes and knowing that I am at least close to the right amount based on PPM measurement, I can't help but feel there is something else causing the deficiency, such as root rot, especially knowing that my water temps were too high for too long while waiting on my chillers to arrive.

hydro takes some time to learn. usually 2 - 3 grows worth. you'll catch the hang of it eventually.

getting the syringes for measuring is a good step. hydro is all about controlling the variables closely.
you should really include more photos of what the plants are doing so we can tell what's going on.

I am going to try and treat with h202 tomorrow and see how it goes. Any suggestions for how much to use?

it depends on the strength. there are several different percentages of h202. typically you can use the common drugstore 3% solution between 3 - 5ml / gallon.

you can go as high as 15ml / gallon to treat known root rot, but i would not start there unless you are quite certain.

i've used a 27% food grade h202 at about 3 - 5 ml per 5 gallons. a bit higher when chasing issues.

I can go back to GH if you guys think thats best but seems unrelated to how much nutes I am giving it since no matter how I change the formula it makes no difference.

the plants won't mind what you use. i'd just settle on a line you are comfortable with and learn it. each line is just a little bit different.


make sure to go through the grow journals. find a couple hydro grows with the same media and nute line you are using and read through it. best thing to do is see what has worked for others and copy it. there are some really good hydro growers on board.

 

[Sativa1970]

Not saying you can't math. Saying to error is human. I am so human I know first hand how easy this error is to make. Just trying to eliminate the possible so whatever is left ,no matter how improbable, is your answer.

Lighting is good spectrum. not too close to burn the tops.18/6 at manufacturers distance. so eliminate that.
Temp, anywhere from 70 night to upper 80s day. eliminate that.
No signs of pests or fungus. eliminate that
High humidity would lead to fungus and low would show excessive water consumption. eliminate that
No physical breakage damage. eliminate that
The nutrients are all included in the mix, so no deficiency. eliminate that
PH 5.5 to 6.3. eliminate that
res temp below 80. warm water won't hold O2 causing rot. eliminate that

That leaves 2 possibilities I can think of.

1) You have a lock out. Simplified explanation. If you have too much of any nutrient there is an apposing nutrient that the plant can not absorb. This presents itself as a deficiency even though it is in the res.
2) You have already corrected the problem and the plant just needs time to grow new healthy leaves. Plants don't like change. Moving from good conditions to different good conditions is still stressful. It will need time to rebound before you change things again.

 

[FelipeBlu]

All very good tips - especially this one

make sure to go through the grow journals. find a couple hydro grows with the same media and nute line you are using and read through it. best thing to do is see what has worked for others and copy it. there are some really good hydro growers on board.

 

[bustedluck]

Does anyone have a good resource that explains what PPM level should be for hydroponics throughout growing phases?

 

[013]

no idea here but I can ask Felipe & Sativa to swing by again

@FelipeBlu @Sativa1970 how about this one??

 

[FelipeBlu]

THIS is a good comprehensive article with a section on nutrient requirements for the various stages of growth.
Have fun!

 

[bluter]

Does anyone have a good resource that explains what PPM level should be for hydroponics throughout growing phases?

your chosen nute supplier should have a published schedule. always start with that as a base. if they don't include ppm as part of the schedule they won't be a serious hydro nute, and should not be considered.

aside from that most nute schedules will be similar in ppm for each stage, and lessons learned in one nute can transfer to others.

 

[bustedluck]

IDK, I use Botanicare pure blend and I am not finding a PPM chart.

That said, I have a hard time believing that they are not a serious nute. Lots of people reviewers/forums recommending it...

 

[FelipeBlu]

How about this ONE