The main reason is that the water pulls (dissolves) more of the plant material than you want. Said another way: The lower the proof of the alcohol (purity of the solvent), the lower the strength of the oil (% cannabinoids).
How To Make Concentrated Cannabis Oil
- Thread starter 420 Motoco
- Start date
You're exactly right. You'd make oil with less % cannabinoids. But you would increase the "entourage effect". What you call "possibly capture some other beneficial elements". Right on.
Short story:
1. Wash pot in alcohol
2. Remove alcohol from wash
3. Use what's left to save lives
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
3 semesters of calculus?
With all that math training then why mix methods in the same calculation?
Now that I know what the 2g was all about a grade 6er can figure that one out.
Weigh the pot before making into oil, say 100g of pot is being used that results in 20g of oil. 100g of pot would be 50 doses at 2g/dose so divide the 20g of oil into 50 portions and make that your dose which would be equivalent to 2g of bud per dose.
20g oil / 50 doses = 0.4g/dose.
Easy-peasy with no advance math degree required.
I know that they didn't teach metric in US or Canadian schools when you and I were going to school. (I'm 69 now), so I had to learn metric when I decided to go back to school in my 30's as a mature student to get a diploma in Environmental Chemistry. That was good for 2 years credit had I wanted to go on to uni for degrees or even a PHd.
Never did get a high school diploma.
Exactly...easy-peasy. Just two old coots kickin'
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
Got to be 5 years ago now I bought a bottle of Beta-Caryophyllene at a hydro store out in BC from some guys called True Terpenes but never even opened it yet. It's been sitting in the fridge since I got it but I wonder if it's even worth using now. I still get an email newsletter from them once a month or so. There's no expiry date on the bottle so might be good yet.
The terpenes you buy are not from pot plants in most cases but derived from other plants. Same thing tho chemically speaking. Some could even be synthetically produced but all are fairly complex organic molecules so would be expensive to synthesize in large quantities.
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
Basically just by what I see on charts like the one I posted. You can add various terps to the oils you make to enhance the effect of what you want for your health needs. Growing strains known to be high in the terps you want is probably the best way but finding the strain that does it all for you can be difficult. With added terps you can tailor your meds or affect the taste of the oils you smoke.
Better living thru chemistry!
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
From what I gather you only use up to 5% total added terpenes in oil so you wouldn't want to use them as your dilutant for vape pens.
I have an e-cig and tried making cannabis juice in it starting with a new clean cartridge but it only worked half-assed. The oil had too much sediment in it I think and quickly plugged up the wicks.
Aren't most vape carts made using isolates now rather than starting with something like oils we could make at home? I know they use isolates in soluble form for cannabis drinks etc.
Isolates are not worth using medicinally IMO as they contain only one single element out of all the compounds that contribute to the entourage effect which I firmly believe to be the key that makes cannabis one of the best natural medicines available.
I have yet to see any scientific studies that use whole extract cannabis instead of ultra purified and even synthetic cannabinoids for their 'meds'.
The vape pens I am reviewing had to be shipped empty (laws), and they are disposables. Hence, the reason I had to try to get some liquid made to use in them for testing.From what I gather you only use up to 5% total added terpenes in oil so you wouldn't want to use them as your dilutant for vape pens.
I have an e-cig and tried making cannabis juice in it starting with a new clean cartridge but it only worked half-assed. The oil had too much sediment in it I think and quickly plugged up the wicks.
Aren't most vape carts made using isolates now rather than starting with something like oils we could make at home? I know they use isolates in soluble form for cannabis drinks etc.
Isolates are not worth using medicinally IMO as they contain only one single element out of all the compounds that contribute to the entourage effect which I firmly believe to be the key that makes cannabis one of the best natural medicines available.
I have yet to see any scientific studies that use whole extract cannabis instead of ultra purified and even synthetic cannabinoids for their 'meds'.
I also have some that use the standard 510 cartridges, I can buy those at a dispensary if I absolutely have to.
Preferably, I would like to get fairly good at making my own and filling my vapes. The practice goes on. LOL
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
Which byproducts are those? If you put pure ethanol in you'll only get pure ethanol out. If you are making your own everclear as I have done in the past you discard the first 50ml or so from the start of distillation which will have some methanol aka wood alcohol aka methyl hydrate in it then you keep an eye on the temp which will slowly rise to the boiling point of near pure ethanol. It should stay there for a while then start to rise. When it does that you should stop collecting the distillate.
Fermentation produces heavy congeners some of which are desirable if you're making drinking alcohol like whiskeys, rum etc but unwanted when making your stuff for extraction use. You can get a simple pot still online all over. I got mine from Vevor dot CA for $149. This one holds 12L/3USG I got almost 3 full cans of Coleman's Campstove fuel in it to cook the naptha out and get rid of the anti rust and other crap that's added to white gas like that. $25 a gallon here and it's sold in US gallon cans so only 3.78L when our milk jugs are a full 4L. It also comes with a thumper the size of the cooling tank to get a higher alcohol content on your first pass. Good hoses with fittings to hook that up too. They make larger ones too for not a lot more money. I'm using a 1000W single hotplate and it's only on 6 I think to cook naphtha and it boils from around 91C up where ethanol is 84.? if I remember correctly. Easy enough to look up but just 5 on the dial should be enough for booze. Should be able to handle a 5gal unit. Can always put insulation around the tank. I have some of that white wall insulation instead of the pink stuff. Little baling wire and it really holds in the heat.
With one of those you can easily make your own high proof ethanol starting with plain sugar, turbo yeast, some yeast nutrient and a cheap wine making kit. Try to get one with the 5gal plastic pail that has the hole in top for the airlock as that has another use. When I made my batch I siphoned off the liquid into clean gal milk jugs then froze them. Then I turned the jug over and stuck it in the hole on top of the now clean pail. Just leave it standing there and let the alcohol run out. Takes about an hour or more and you can see a line go down as it drains. Looks darker below and white on top. I figure the stuff you end up with is around 50% or so. Not that bad to just grab a glass and have a little cheer either. If you had good, full fermentation it shouldn't taste too sweet. A little mixer helps.
Now run that stuff through the still a couple times and it should be good enough to use. If you use the thumper you should be right up there in everclear territory. A 3rd run without the thumper should be as good. I have a hydrometer to test the alcohol level but I didn't use it much. You should end up with a gallon or more of good alcohol.
I learned a lot about stills and distilling at a site called Homedistiller.org Could download the whole site to your computer and use it offline at one time but they don't do that any more. Tons of info and plans to DIY a few stills.
Oh yeah it comes with a little pond pump and that white tubing so you can use a pail of cold water and circulate it to use the still where there's no tap water access. Need to add ice and remove some water every now and then if doing a lot of cooking. I plan to redo the cooling coil so it goes right down into the water and has 2 or 3 more coils. If you really get cooking it goes thru so fast you're blowing alcoholic steam out the distillate tube. Don't want that.
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
Acetone with it's low boiling point makes an excellent solvent for extractions and can be used just like ethanol or ISO for frozen quick wash methods. Nail polish remover acetone with usually a scent added or an adulterant to discourage sniffing it for a buzz. Easy to get anywhere paint is sold but needs distillation to purify for it as it's an industrial product so purity is not a priority when they make it but it's 99% or so and mostly water as it is miscible with water like alcohols.
Acetone - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
budnoob3
Well-Known Member
I’m not 100% indoor anymore, about 60/40 nowI may have better solvent than you........BUT.....I am Soooooooo jealous of your herb. Can't afford to grow indoors and I'm absolutely blessed to get local growers buds from last years crop for free, but nothing beats your own grow !! Also, at 77, I just don't have the energy to make oil and treat folks while growing an expensive crop (electric rates...I just paid $560 today for January
for climate controlled art collection and separate work shop) at the same time (plus another side job). Ramblin' ...sorry. Not sorry, stoned!
Which byproducts are those? If you put pure ethanol in you'll only get pure ethanol out. If you are making your own everclear as I have done in the past you discard the first 50ml or so from the start of distillation which will have some methanol aka wood alcohol aka methyl hydrate in it then you keep an eye on the temp which will slowly rise to the boiling point of near pure ethanol. It should stay there for a while then start to rise. When it does that you should stop collecting the distillate.
Fermentation produces heavy congeners some of which are desirable if you're making drinking alcohol like whiskeys, rum etc but unwanted when making your stuff for extraction use. You can get a simple pot still online all over. I got mine from Vevor dot CA for $149. This one holds 12L/3USG I got almost 3 full cans of Coleman's Campstove fuel in it to cook the naptha out and get rid of the anti rust and other crap that's added to white gas like that. $25 a gallon here and it's sold in US gallon cans so only 3.78L when our milk jugs are a full 4L. It also comes with a thumper the size of the cooling tank to get a higher alcohol content on your first pass. Good hoses with fittings to hook that up too. They make larger ones too for not a lot more money. I'm using a 1000W single hotplate and it's only on 6 I think to cook naphtha and it boils from around 91C up where ethanol is 84.? if I remember correctly. Easy enough to look up but just 5 on the dial should be enough for booze. Should be able to handle a 5gal unit. Can always put insulation around the tank. I have some of that white wall insulation instead of the pink stuff. Little baling wire and it really holds in the heat.
With one of those you can easily make your own high proof ethanol starting with plain sugar, turbo yeast, some yeast nutrient and a cheap wine making kit. Try to get one with the 5gal plastic pail that has the hole in top for the airlock as that has another use. When I made my batch I siphoned off the liquid into clean gal milk jugs then froze them. Then I turned the jug over and stuck it in the hole on top of the now clean pail. Just leave it standing there and let the alcohol run out. Takes about an hour or more and you can see a line go down as it drains. Looks darker below and white on top. I figure the stuff you end up with is around 50% or so. Not that bad to just grab a glass and have a little cheer either. If you had good, full fermentation it shouldn't taste too sweet. A little mixer helps.
Now run that stuff through the still a couple times and it should be good enough to use. If you use the thumper you should be right up there in everclear territory. A 3rd run without the thumper should be as good. I have a hydrometer to test the alcohol level but I didn't use it much. You should end up with a gallon or more of good alcohol.
I learned a lot about stills and distilling at a site called Homedistiller.org Could download the whole site to your computer and use it offline at one time but they don't do that any more. Tons of info and plans to DIY a few stills.
Oh yeah it comes with a little pond pump and that white tubing so you can use a pail of cold water and circulate it to use the still where there's no tap water access. Need to add ice and remove some water every now and then if doing a lot of cooking. I plan to redo the cooling coil so it goes right down into the water and has 2 or 3 more coils. If you really get cooking it goes thru so fast you're blowing alcoholic steam out the distillate tube. Don't want that.
The distillation of alcohol is a safe controlled process, solvent can not be denatured! The only suitable safe grade solvent for consumption is 190 proof = 95% alcohol which can extract the medicinal cannabis mater.
RANT ALERT. 
My Cannabis Family,
You blow my mind !
I consider myself to be an expert in the making and uses of CCO, RSO, CO. And yet I wish I could retain 50% of the knowledge and creative thought you all exhibit in the course of these discussions. OldMedUser, you are the stereo type of a LabRat !! I am so jealous of your practicle wisdom from that experience.
I don't say it enough......
Thank God for you all. Some of you have saved my life.
All of you have saved lives we'll never know of.
Thank You for being my family and my strength. I love you.
END ALERT
My Cannabis Family,
You blow my mind !
I consider myself to be an expert in the making and uses of CCO, RSO, CO. And yet I wish I could retain 50% of the knowledge and creative thought you all exhibit in the course of these discussions. OldMedUser, you are the stereo type of a LabRat !! I am so jealous of your practicle wisdom from that experience.
I don't say it enough......
Thank God for you all. Some of you have saved my life.
All of you have saved lives we'll never know of.
Thank You for being my family and my strength. I love you.
END ALERT
MimiEMU
420 Member
Howdy, it's been a while. I went dark to focus on a study on solvent safety, but that will be for a new thread.Good Morning MimiEMu,
I'll start with a question : How do I quote part of a person's post ? Re: So, for your 100ml.........
I get mostly last season's crop leftovers from growers for free. The quality (% THC) determines the AMOUNT of oil I get from a given batch. I regularly use 1.5 to 2 lbs of pot for 100ml near 80% THC oil (77%+). The 200 proof (100%) alcohol gives me the most THC extraction per unit pot. This takes about 2 to 2.5 liters of alcohol (I use a liberal amount) of which I recover about 75 to 80%. It depends on how clean the bud is. Trim (close) takes more alcohol and produces less oil, but is still well worth the effort. I do two 3 minute (timed) cold washes with medium agitation. The 4 or so filtration steps are NOT done cold as the extraction is when cold is required to reduce contaminant extraction. I recover the alcohol with a water still from Amazon. I use a scale during distillation to know when to stop the process with enough alcohol + oil to pour easily but not so much to waste too much expensive alcohol during boil off and decarboxilation. Keep in mind that as soon as 200 proof alcohol is exposed to air, it starts to absorb water from the air. Therefore, every time you reuse the same alcohol, it is a lower proof and you can expect a lower THC% (also total cannabinoid reduced) oil. 200 proof alcohol can only be produced in a zero air (Lab) environment.
Hope this helps.
Johnnyoilseed
So, I have a couple tests for you to do if you can donate 2ml of oil, and if you can acquire 95% Methanol. It's available cheap here in the states, $14 for a liter. Methanol is an FDA Class 2 solvent that will cause you to go blind or even kill you in drinking quantities, so these 2ml will get tossed when done. Take simple precautions when using it, avoid skin contact is the big one. Fumes wont be a problem at room temp, but you'll want to boil this off outdoors.
First test is to see how much wax is left in your oil. Methanol chemical characteristics makes it perfect for this test. Take a look at the attached picture. On the left is my control case of a room temp 2oz wash then immediately boiled down. I then redissolved the oils in 1-2oz of Methanol and the waxes fell out as you can see. You can actually measure the weight of the waxes by pouring this into a coffee filter, letting the alcohol and oils drain out. Then place the coffee filter with waxes in a jar of warm alcohol to redissolve, toss the filter, then it boil down for the weight measurement.
For the second test, take the methanol and dissolved oil, add an oz of water, then boil this down stopping at 96c/205f. You should have oil and water. Cool that down to 10c/50f then you can dump out the waste water. I want you now to boil down that waste water and measure the weight of tar. This test will tell you how much semi-polar phospholipids remain the oils. Phospholipids cause emulsions, so adding water will hydrate them, causing an emulsion you can then separate out and boil down.
These two tests will get us closer to comparing Apples to Apples rather than Apples to Oranges. The phospholipid part is the big unknown in the cannabis world. Degumming gets rid of phospholipids, dewaxing gets rid of the waxes. Neither process will remove the other. The trichome cell walls are made up phospholipids and get dissolved in the alcohol, even if cold. If you extract oil using solvents, you are dissolving the phospholipids to get to the oil. Question is, how much in a warm vs cold environment. Phospholipid melting points are sub -20c/0f so they will no freeze during a QWET and remain in the oil.
So, if you decide to take this mission, the agency will dissavow any knowledge of your operation.. Oh, wrong thread..
So, I hope you can do this, it will give data points towards yield losses.
Chrt-RICE Rapid Winterization Comp v01 SM.jpg
This will have to wait awhile as I'm dealing with my own health problems right now. Seventy back shots (lidocaine, nerve ablation, and multiple epidurals) in the last 6 weeks. Also BPH blocking urine flow. Golden years my ass !!! I hope someone else will decide to take this mission.
budnoob3
Well-Known Member
I’m reasonably confident that most in the community share the same sentiments, I also know that for my part I was a youthful idiot that knew everything and immortal too. We’ve made great strides and helped a lot of people sharing knowledge. Best of fortune for your health. Be well.This will have to wait awhile as I'm dealing with my own health problems right now. Seventy back shots (lidocaine, nerve ablation, and multiple epidurals) in the last 6 weeks. Also BPH blocking urine flow. Golden years my ass !!! I hope someone else will decide to take this mission.