How to get started growing indoors organically - No bottles

Haven't gone through every page to read what has or has not been said but my brother is huge on TLO and specifically the book of 'True Living Organics' by 'The Rev'. I've read half of it and it's extremely interesting for anyone who is following this thread. Just thought I might throw my .2 in, even though I'm more of a synthetic guy myself.
 
Steviodaddio said:
Haven't gone through every page to read what has or has not been said but my brother is huge on TLO and specifically the book of 'True Living Organics' by 'The Rev'. I've read half of it and it's extremely interesting for anyone who is following this thread. Just thought I might throw my .2 in, even though I'm more of a synthetic guy myself.
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Sweet.
 
Steviodaddio said:
Haven't gone through every page to read what has or has not been said but my brother is huge on TLO and specifically the book of 'True Living Organics' by 'The Rev'. I've read half of it and it's extremely interesting for anyone who is following this thread. Just thought I might throw my .2 in, even though I'm more of a synthetic guy myself.
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I came close to falling under the Rev's spell. This approach makes his look like really hard work. Point your brother in the direction of LOS. Save him a lot of time and expense.
 
I just stumbled onto this, thanks to Sweetsue's signature. Great info. I learned :p I was thinking that I was growing bio with my Bio Nova line .. guess I have to rethink that. In my defence, I all got it with the 2nd hand tent I bought .. was not where I ended up through my own research.

I was thinking about going hydro, or aeroponics ... now, not so sure any more. I will probably have a hard time sourcing the ingredients, living in the Netherlands where people are fucking stupid nowadays, and rather pay money to have someone else do their work, then do it themselves and learn in the process. We are a nation consisting of experts on one topic while being idiotic lemmings on all other topics :/

So, if I where to give this a try, do I need the ingredients you listed, or is there a way to start with this, without all the special ingredients like bone meal, oistershell meal, and stuff like that ?

Could I, for instance, dig up a bunch of soil in the local forrest, and g with that as a base ? What would I need to add to that to get a decent starting soil ?
Will using my nutrient line on this soil, kill it or enhance it further ? (bought the stuff .. seems a waste not to use it)

Would composting organic matter in existing soil, yield living soil, when a bit of forest soil is added and a few plants are allowed to grow in it ?

Sorry for the million questions .. will read the thread from cover to cover now :p (subbed :) )
 
Ok man listen. Get soil analysis documents from your area. If they did any agricultural studies then you're good, cause you'll be able to see organic matter level, and if you get geological ones you will also be able to see what composes your soil below 50cm layer of compost if there's any. Then you can get it down to mixing it with aerating agents or enriching with proper organic additives or you can measure PH if you really need to. That'll be good for a start I think :Hookah:
 
PlanetJ, what makes the soil CO and I use so special is its mineralization and amendments. Adding the rock dust charges the soil. Most of the amendments can be replaced with substitutions, but that rock dust brings a flavor to the soil that is integral to the process. Mixing forest soil into a cooked mix will indeed infuse it all with valuable soil life, but a properly balanced mineralized soil is filled with life after it's been cooked.

If you study the amendments listed for the CC mix and reason what they add to the mix you should be able to determine suitable replacements for them. There's a reason for everything in the mix. This formula was carefully worked out over many years and is tremendously successful at growing potent and healthy cannabis plants with little effort on your part.

You can also explore utilizing plant-based teas and/or drenches to add to the biomass of your soil. Things like comfrey, yarrow, stinging nettle, kelp, alfalfa, etc. should be accessible to you in your country. Dandelion, thistle, even common burdock grow wild. There are many options, but I'd advise you be sure to include the rock dusts.

I'm of the opinion that part of what makes my own soil so beneficial is the diversity of components. Instead of simply going with pumice I also added rice hulls, and there's even a small amount of perlite in there, so my soil has three different types of aeration components in it. I added small amounts of a variety of sands - partly because I had them on hand as leftovers from previous gardening adventures, but mostly because I wanted a wide variety of surfaces for the micro herd to live among.

Part of the fun was researching and thinking outside the box. I stuck closely to the original recipe, but I had the advantage of being able to purchase the CC-style nutrient mix from Build A Soil, which contained all of the components needed in a balanced mix. I took the easy way out. When I mix my soil for our balcony garden I will play more with some substitutions, but they will still give me the balance found in the CC recipe. Quite frankly, because it works.

Good luck on your soil building. You won't regret it. If you haven't already, check out BuildASoil on line. It's like a textbook on doing it right and I'm certain you will learn more than you expected about the components of a living organic soil.
 
COorganics said:
...

Clackamas Coot soil mix:

"Equal parts of Sphagnum peat moss, some aeration deal (pumice, rice hulls, lava rock - whatever is sitting in the garage) and finally some mix of humus - my compost, worm castings some black leaf mold I bought from the local 'worm guy'
To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:
1/2 cup organic Neem meal
1/2 cup organic Kelp meal
1/2 cup Crab meal (or Crustacean meal when available - it has Shrimp meal with the Crab meal. It's a local product from the fisheries on the Oregon & Washington Coasts)
4 cups of some minerals - rock dust

After the plant is in the final container I top-dress with my worm castings at 2" or so and then I hit it with Aloe vera juice and Comfrey extract. Or Borage. Or Stinging Nettle. Or Horsetail ferns. Whatever is ready.


The Rock Dust Recipe
4x - Glacial Rock Dust - Canadian Glacial (Gaia Green label)
1x - Bentonite - from the pottery supply store
1x - Oyster Shell Powder - the standard product from San Francisco Bay
1x - Basalt - from Redmond, Oregon (new product at Concentrates - about $18.00) ."


I believe that this recipe allows for some substitutions and that the biggest thing is to stick to the 1/3 SPM, 1/3 aeration, 1/3 humus and the amendments at the specified ratios. I have seen people (including myself) vary the actually "rock dusts" but don't if you can help it, and certainly don't omit the oyster shell flour in place of something else.

Living organic soil is very rewarding to grow in, give it a try, no one has ever looked back after going this route.
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So .. starting my research while I have my compost bin started, no worms yet tho .. have to find a few, not easy when it's close to freezing outside :p

I hit my first issue right away ... 'meal' translates to stuff you eat over here .. while this is probably right in this context, I can not find it like this when using google ... could someone explain to me what the different meals are ?

My guesses:

Neem meal: neem seeds gorund up ?
Kelp meal: dried and ground up kelp ?
Crab meal: the exoskeleton of crabs and shrimps, ground up ?

Rock dust is going to be pain in the ass to obtain .. there are just two suppliers, and they only deliver big bags ... so yeah, not sure how to solve that issue. Even then, they only have seashell meal or lava meal.

I did find an analysis of the stuff, so now I need to find something like that for the meals listed here, and compare I guess ? This is something completely new over here .. kinda sad when you think about it.

I'll do some more research on the rockdust, but I'd love for someone to clear up what the other meals consist of .. thanks!

btw .. any Dutch people here already using this system, able to help me find what I am looking for ?
 
:ciao: CO. I've been subscribed for some time and quietly learning, copying and pasting and preparing for my next round of girls.

This thread is exemplary. I thank you, the Godfather of the LOS mafia here, for your peerless information and advice. "And may your first child be a man child" :laughtwo:

:bravo::thanks::circle-of-love:
 
PlanetJ said:
So .. starting my research while I have my compost bin started, no worms yet tho .. have to find a few, not easy when it's close to freezing outside :p

I hit my first issue right away ... 'meal' translates to stuff you eat over here .. while this is probably right in this context, I can not find it like this when using google ... could someone explain to me what the different meals are ?

My guesses:

Neem meal: neem seeds gorund up ?
Kelp meal: dried and ground up kelp ?
Crab meal: the exoskeleton of crabs and shrimps, ground up ?

Rock dust is going to be pain in the ass to obtain .. there are just two suppliers, and they only deliver big bags ... so yeah, not sure how to solve that issue. Even then, they only have seashell meal or lava meal.

I did find an analysis of the stuff, so now I need to find something like that for the meals listed here, and compare I guess ? This is something completely new over here .. kinda sad when you think about it.

I'll do some more research on the rockdust, but I'd love for someone to clear up what the other meals consist of .. thanks!

btw .. any Dutch people here already using this system, able to help me find what I am looking for ?
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Man...I've thought about moving to The Netherlands later in life...not having good gardening materials may put a damper on that plan lol :)

But yes - as you guessed, those are just ground up materials.

Crustacean and kelp meal could be made easily on your own. You probably have better access to those materials in the wild than most American and Canadian growers being that you live in a port nation, while many of us are land locked. Have you checked any farm supply stores? Certain live stock feed (corn, barley, alfalfa) be used for sprouted enzyme teas, etc. I know some farm supplies may sell smaller portions of rock dust specifically to be added to livestock feed...if you find the right place it could be a one stop shop.

Have you gone to any gardening or hydro stores over there and asked if they know where to get some of these things? I imagine there has to be some kind of organic cannabis community over there. Do you know if any of the coffee shops boast about organically grown cannabis?

I have found that some growers in the UK appear to be able to get some of the same materials we use over here...is there any way you can order from there? Hell, I'd offer to order everything for you and then forward it, but the shipping costs may be kind of high.
 
Hmmm. Hadn't thought about rock dust in the Netherlands. Not likely many quarries in the area, are there? What works best are glacial rock dusts and I know the last ice age got down that far, or at least I assume it did. Do they use tombstones in the Netherlands? I've heard of growers who have acquired their dust from a local stonemason. It's just trash to the tombstone makers. Companies that manufacture granite countertops are the same. This will take a bit of outside-the-box thinking.

Seafood restaurants can be a good source of crustacean exoskeletons. Again - trash to them. With neem it's important to source seed meal, although all parts of the neem tree are beneficial, so if leaf meal is all you can get, it's better than nothing.

I don't recall if I've ever seen you on paddysmoke's journal, but he makes some absolutely wicked teas, and kelp is always a part of them. His soil communities love the nutrients. If you haven't checked him out I highly recommend it.

https://https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/paddy-goes-auto-winter.236608/

I admire your perseverance PlanetJ. Keep on. You won't regret it. There are so many different ways to go organic with soil. This recipe is just one of the best I've come across and my grow demonstrates its potential and ease. The frustration of sourcing components will be worth it in the end, I assure you.

:Namaste:
 
PlanetJ - you are in an excellent place to LOCALLY source all you need. Just think a little outside the box. You've got access to the best sea kelp on the planet and I'm sure crab meal should be easy to source as well. You should have a local feed store to source alfalfa since your local farmers that grow sheep, goats and milk cows will need alfalfa in the winter to feed the animals as well as lots of other goodies you can use to make up some soil. I would think your soil from the forest is an excellent choice too just dont over do it with peat as the ph will not be optimal for cannabis. Also you should be able to find fresh water bogs as well may in the spring time - cut a little of the bog out and add it to your compost you will have all the minerals you need just from that! Yeah so think a little outside the box and source everything local just make substitutions that make sense, remember plants are growing where you live just like here in the states cept your wilderness is VAST and supplies of organics are right there where you are, all you need is there.

Oh yeah - rock dust check for a local granite quarry or fabricator - they are around, just get the granite dust its the same stuff they pack up and sell here for crazy money. The granite shop or quarry will probably laugh when you ask but they will have it laying around on the ground or hopefully they are filtering it out of the water and you can grab a can full from them when they clean the filters. I work at a granite shop we have literally hundreds of pounds of the stuff when we clean out the filters. It gets tossed in the trash/recycled with the rest of the scrap stone.

Cheers
 
bobrown14 said:
PlanetJ - you are in an excellent place to LOCALLY source all you need. Just think a little outside the box. You've got access to the best sea kelp on the planet and I'm sure crab meal should be easy to source as well. You should have a local feed store to source alfalfa since your local farmers that grow sheep, goats and milk cows will need alfalfa in the winter to feed the animals as well as lots of other goodies you can use to make up some soil. I would think your soil from the forest is an excellent choice too just dont over do it with peat as the ph will not be optimal for cannabis. Also you should be able to find fresh water bogs as well may in the spring time - cut a little of the bog out and add it to your compost you will have all the minerals you need just from that! Yeah so think a little outside the box and source everything local just make substitutions that make sense, remember plants are growing where you live just like here in the states cept your wilderness is VAST and supplies of organics are right there where you are, all you need is there.

Oh yeah - rock dust check for a local granite quarry or fabricator - they are around, just get the granite dust its the same stuff they pack up and sell here for crazy money. The granite shop or quarry will probably laugh when you ask but they will have it laying around on the ground or hopefully they are filtering it out of the water and you can grab a can full from them when they clean the filters. I work at a granite shop we have literally hundreds of pounds of the stuff when we clean out the filters. It gets tossed in the trash/recycled with the rest of the scrap stone.

Cheers
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I have a friend who has dumpster dived a near by granite place to use as flag stones and for art projects...I didn't think about the dust. I'll have to see what can be gotten from them.
 
I do find that scavenging around in the forests for soil building material is one of my favorite things to do. As soon as things thaw I will be back at it again. I personally feel, (with no real evidence to back it up), that a person could make a really, really good soil without spending a dime. everything could be picked up, raked up, shoveled up and assembled later back at home. I think this would be a really fun and rewarding way to go about things! I only recommend the CC soil mix because it works so good, and is properly balanced and rich. Its the easiest way in my opinion to grow really good organic stuff. The CC mix yields exceptionally well too, that was something that took me by surprise. I went from 1-2 ounces per plant to upwards of 6. I still have piles of buds here from my last harvest and they are really good. Look at Sue's autos under CFLs and tell me the CC soil mix isn't superb!?!

As im typing this, I have an idea. This spring, just for the fun of it, I will build a new soil from scratch using only things I can gather for free. It will be a lot of fun to do! I doubt what I make will equal the Coots Mix though.
 
Good organic soil breaks down to few thinks: organic matter (potassium, nitrogen, humic acid), aeration, minerals to be adsorbed and absorbed (phosphorus, magnesium, calcium, iron etc.), microbial & fungal activity. You dial it in and you have everything you need with the right setup or weather.

There are also my favorite helpers: hyperaccumulators :)
 
Clackamas Coots himself said to start with the recipe, take the time to understand why it works so well and make it a goal to source your next mix as much as you could locally, substituting with an understanding of how your components fit into the equation. It was always meant to be an entry level mix. His expectation was that we would evolve as growers and begin to explore and experiment.
 
These last few posts helped me understand better what my task is :) I already sourced a bunch of stuff local, I will get the rest from nature myself as well. Thanks for helping me out here everybody!

Does CC talk about how to grind shells and bones and stuff like that to meal without a big ass ball tumbler ?? And do not reply with mortar and pestle please :laughtwo:
 
PlanetJ said:
These last few posts helped me understand better what my task is :) I already sourced a bunch of stuff local, I will get the rest from nature myself as well. Thanks for helping me out here everybody!

Does CC talk about how to grind shells and bones and stuff like that to meal without a big ass ball tumbler ?? And do not reply with mortar and pestle please :laughtwo:
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I haven't seen any particulars on that myself. You could always pack them in a sturdy sack and let a vehicle drive back and forth over it to begin busting it up until pieces are small enough to smack with a hammer and then pull out that mortar and pestle. :laughtwo:
 
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