How To: 10oz per plant perpetual indoors

Capn fascinating write up. If you only have a 4x4x7.5' space to grow in are you better off using your method or going to a SOG method with more plants. Which do you think would yield more in a single grow? BTW I am doing E&F using a commercial multiflow system. It uses a control reservoir that fills and distributes the nutrient and then returns the nutrient to the main reservoir. Here is link showing how it works:
Multiflow Ebb & Flow

You can see in the pictures in my journal that it works quite well. On my next grow I have different plans on the setup. Actually I have figured out how to convert my system to top feed. Quite simple really, instead of the pump filling the control reservoir I feed it to the plants instead. Then gravity will fill the control reservoir and shut off the pump at the right time. I just need a way to get an even flow to all six plants. May have to use multiple pumps. When the timers up it will drain the pots like normal back to the main reservoir. :)



I have built a small veg station to pre veg my plants so they only need to veg in the tent for a two weeks and I am horrible with seeds so my plan is to grow a mother and take clones.

Another question do you think using rockwool cubes would work well in my setup? I like how your roots develop. I had an earlier grow which I had to cut short and the root system was extensive in the Hydroton but not nearly as dense as you show. I guessing that if I just change to rockwool I will see better results.
 
nbissonette said:
I think this will be my last question, sorry man.

What size air stone will I need for my 10 gallon reservoir?

Nate
Click to expand...

If you are growing in rockwool and you don't have roots dangling in water, you don't need an air supply in there. If you really want to have one, the smallest air pump and stone from the pet shop will work fine.
 
TrysHard said:
Capn fascinating write up. If you only have a 4x4x7.5' space to grow in are you better off using your method or going to a SOG method with more plants. Which do you think would yield more in a single grow? BTW I am doing E&F using a commercial multiflow system. It uses a control reservoir that fills and distributes the nutrient and then returns the nutrient to the main reservoir. Here is link showing how it works:
Multiflow Ebb & Flow

You can see in the pictures in my journal that it works quite well. On my next grow I have different plans on the setup. Actually I have figured out how to convert my system to top feed. Quite simple really, instead of the pump filling the control reservoir I feed it to the plants instead. Then gravity will fill the control reservoir and shut off the pump at the right time. I just need a way to get an even flow to all six plants. May have to use multiple pumps. When the timers up it will drain the pots like normal back to the main reservoir. :)

I have built a small veg station to pre veg my plants so they only need to veg in the tent for a two weeks and I am horrible with seeds so my plan is to grow a mother and take clones.

Another question do you think using rockwool cubes would work well in my setup? I like how your roots develop. I had an earlier grow which I had to cut short and the root system was extensive in the Hydroton but not nearly as dense as you show. I guessing that if I just change to rockwool I will see better results.
Click to expand...

>>>If you only have a 4x4x7.5' space to grow in are you better off using your method or going to a SOG method with more plants. Which do you think would yield more in a single grow?

This is a really good question. SOG (lets say 12 plants) will always yield more because each plant only has to feed a few colas, and the colas will get huge. You can cut off the tiny branches and the plant focuses power on a few main colas. You should be able to get 24 zips from 12 in a 4x4 space. Or, you can fill a 4x4 SCROG with a single plant, vegged for 2 months, and easily produce a 16-18zips. However, if you get a knock on the door, you would rather have 1 plant than 12. It could be the difference between a slap on the hand an a vacation in bracelets, if you know what I mean. There are other disadvantages to SOG. When you flower young, immature plants, they take longer to finish, and are more likely to produce male pollen sacs. It is also more hassle to take care of 12 plants, rather than 1.

S1ingblade took the capn style method and found a happy medium. He runs 4 per 4x4 or 5x5 space. I've run it this way too a couple times. We can get 24+ zips this way, and finish quicker too. There isn't a need to keep a "mother" plant. When you put your plants into flower, you can take clones from them, for the next round. You have to wait 2 months to flower, so when you harvest, now you have plants in veg for 2 months and they are ready to go in!

>>You can see in the pictures in my journal that it works quite well. On my next grow I have different plans on the setup. Actually I have figured out how to convert my system to top feed.

I like that set up but it needs too much water volume to run, wasting nutrients at water changes. So I love your idea to make it top feed. You will be able to run much less water in the reservoir.

>>Another question do you think using rockwool cubes would work well in my setup?

Absolutely. The rockwool gives the roots a place to sink in. With hydroton, the roots just grow AROUND the pebbles.

Good luck man. your grow looks great.
 
TheCapn said:
>>>If you only have a 4x4x7.5' space to grow in are you better off using your method or going to a SOG method with more plants. Which do you think would yield more in a single grow?

This is a really good question. SOG (lets say 12 plants) will always yield more because each plant only has to feed a few colas, and the colas will get huge. You can cut off the tiny branches and the plant focuses power on a few main colas. You should be able to get 24 zips from 12 in a 4x4 space. Or, you can fill a 4x4 SCROG with a single plant, vegged for 2 months, and easily produce a 16-18zips. However, if you get a knock on the door, you would rather have 1 plant than 12. It could be the difference between a slap on the hand an a vacation in bracelets, if you know what I mean. There are other disadvantages to SOG. When you flower young, immature plants, they take longer to finish, and are more likely to produce male pollen sacs. It is also more hassle to take care of 12 plants, rather than 1.

S1ingblade took the capn style method and found a happy medium. He runs 4 per 4x4 or 5x5 space. I've run it this way too a couple times. We can get 24+ zips this way, and finish quicker too. There isn't a need to keep a "mother" plant. When you put your plants into flower, you can take clones from them, for the next round. You have to wait 2 months to flower, so when you harvest, now you have plants in veg for 2 months and they are ready to go in!

>>You can see in the pictures in my journal that it works quite well. On my next grow I have different plans on the setup. Actually I have figured out how to convert my system to top feed.

I like that set up but it needs too much water volume to run, wasting nutrients at water changes. So I love your idea to make it top feed. You will be able to run much less water in the reservoir.

>>Another question do you think using rockwool cubes would work well in my setup?

Absolutely. The rockwool gives the roots a place to sink in. With hydroton, the roots just grow AROUND the pebbles.

Good luck man. your grow looks great.
Click to expand...

Thanks Capn,
You given me much to think about.

First do you think that a 15 min flood cycle is beneficial, or does just running the nutrients in a flow sufficient? The reason I ask is, if I convert my system to top fill I can still have a flood cycle with the roots sitting in nutrient for a minimum of 15 min. Or I can set up the switches so that as the pots drain into my control reservoir it pumps right back into the main reservoir therefore needing less nutrients.

My thinking on my next grow is that I will continue to do the six plants but use a SCROG method. Maybe I can get 32 zips!

I am going to go with the rockwool cubes on the next grow, it looks like the better option. Rockwool holds more moisture though so maybe a flood cycle would not be the way to go.
 
>>>First do you think that a 15 min flood cycle is beneficial, or does just running the nutrients in a flow sufficient? The reason I ask is, if I convert my system to top fill I can still have a flood cycle with the roots sitting in nutrient for a minimum of 15 min. Or I can set up the switches so that as the pots drain into my control reservoir it pumps right back into the main reservoir therefore needing less nutrients.

From my experience, I converted from a flood system to a top-feed system for 2 reasons: 1.To minimize risk of deficiencies due to salt build up; and 2.To be able to reduce the size of my reservoir. I was in between both systems for a while, trying to reap the benefits of top-feed and completely flooding the rootzone. After an inconsiderable amount of maintenance, I just stuck with the top-feed method and noticed no reprimand in growth.

To answer your question, I would recommend a 15-20 minute top-feed cycle with each watering to ensure your rootzone and reservoir have the same readings. I would setup up the switches so that the drainage is pumped back into the reservoir, for a continuous flow of nutrients through the rootzone.

I'll pop by your thread and give it a look, nice to meet you TrysHArd ;)
 
AfricanGrower said:
>>>First do you think that a 15 min flood cycle is beneficial, or does just running the nutrients in a flow sufficient? The reason I ask is, if I convert my system to top fill I can still have a flood cycle with the roots sitting in nutrient for a minimum of 15 min. Or I can set up the switches so that as the pots drain into my control reservoir it pumps right back into the main reservoir therefore needing less nutrients.

From my experience, I converted from a flood system to a top-feed system for 2 reasons: 1.To minimize risk of deficiencies due to salt build up; and 2.To be able to reduce the size of my reservoir. I was in between both systems for a while, trying to reap the benefits of top-feed and completely flooding the rootzone. After an inconsiderable amount of maintenance, I just stuck with the top-feed method and noticed no reprimand in growth.

To answer your question, I would recommend a 15-20 minute top-feed cycle with each watering to ensure your rootzone and reservoir have the same readings. I would setup up the switches so that the drainage is pumped back into the reservoir, for a continuous flow of nutrients through the rootzone.

I'll pop by your thread and give it a look, nice to meet you TrysHArd ;)
Click to expand...

I currently run a 20 gal res. With a six pot system and top feed how much smaller could it get?

Thanks for the answer.
 
TheCapn said:
+1



NO smaller.
Click to expand...

So I won't save by having a smaller reservoir but it will help with salt build up. I will have to check my pots when then grow is done to see how much of a build up I have. Would the build up be greater using Rockwool vs Hydroton? Since Rockwool holds more moisture wouldn't it more likely have salt buildup? I could try and experiment on my next grow, three pots Hydroton, three pots Rockwool.
 
TrysHard said:
So I won't save by having a smaller reservoir but it will help with salt build up. I will have to check my pots when then grow is done to see how much of a build up I have. Would the build up be greater using Rockwool vs Hydroton? Since Rockwool holds more moisture wouldn't it more likely have salt buildup? I could try and experiment on my next grow, three pots Hydroton, three pots Rockwool.
Click to expand...

I would do 6 pots rockwool. Rockwool and hydroton require different irrigation schedules. If you are doing ebb and flow, just top feed by hand once a week and you won't have salt build up. If you only top feed, you don't have to worry about it at all.
 
TheCapn said:
Once or twice a day. You should really check out the "simple hydroponics" thread.

twice a day seems light for hydroton.
Click to expand...

I thought so too, but this is what I have always done and the plants seem to be healthy. Could you check my journal. The latest pictures are 4+weeks bloom. I will check out your basic Hydro thread.
 
Great thread Cap!
 
I was doing 2x a day in flower, in Hydroton/bigmama cubes once as lights kicked on and 8 hrs later, I wasnt happy, a friend suggested to kick it up, and so now my pumps water every 3 hrs during flower, and they blew up

the downside is, I have to refill rez A LOT more and had to toss a 2nd dehumidifier in the room

fwiw, I took everything I learned from this theard, and modified a bit to fit my set up, put 4 plants per 4x4 table, topped along the way, and get 2.25 lbs from 4 plants under 1 1000 watt bulb avg 10 oz per plant

I dont use pots or buckets, my tables are my buckets and the plants grow freely whereever they like
 
DDCollect said:
I was doing 2x a day in flower, in Hydroton/bigmama cubes once as lights kicked on and 8 hrs later, I wasnt happy, a friend suggested to kick it up, and so now my pumps water every 3 hrs during flower, and they blew up

the downside is, I have to refill rez A LOT more and had to toss a 2nd dehumidifier in the room

fwiw, I took everything I learned from this theard, and modified a bit to fit my set up, put 4 plants per 4x4 table, topped along the way, and get 2.25 lbs from 4 plants under 1 1000 watt bulb avg 10 oz per plant

I dont use pots or buckets, my tables are my buckets and the plants grow freely whereever they like
Click to expand...

DD, thanks for your post. Great to hear you are getting that kind of yield in a 4x4 table. This is the same way sling does it! The bigmama cubes don't hold as much water and they don't have enough space for roots for huge plants so that's why you'll have to irrigate more often. I would like to see a picture of your growing container.
 
TheCapn said:
Ok it's time to harvest!

After 9 weeks, you should look at your trichromes with a jeweler's loop, or a 20-30x magnifying glass. Some people say you can look at the pistols, and if they are mostly brown in color, the plant is ripe. There is a better way.

If your trichromes are clear, it is NOT ready.

(I stole these pictures, as I don't have a good macro):

When trichromes get all milky or white, it is very close to being ready. You could take it at this point, but I would wait a bit longer.

milky.jpg


Most growers prefer to harvest when they see amber trichromes. Every strain is different, but it is known the more amber trichromes there are, the more "couch lock" the high is. You know... when you feel like your body weighs 300 lbs??? I lean toward taking it just when I start to see amber here and there, like this:

amber2.jpg


Let's get it out of the grow room, shall we?

cokebottle.jpg


Here are a couple pictures of roots. As we can see, they are really healthy, but very root bound (this is the reason I have been experimenting with even bigger containers). We have 3/8" of roots around the bottom and sides of the bucket, plus all the rock wool is a big root mass. I transplanted to the 3.5 gallon pot a little too early. Overall, we can see how roots explode in the ebb and flow bucket. I believe the beneficial bacteria helps this as well.

rootbucket.jpg

rootbound2.jpg

layerroots.jpg


Trim. I won't go into too much detail here because there is SO much info about this already and I'm sure you already have your own method, but here's how I do it.

1. After cutting down plant, cut it up branch by branch, leaving some of the branch / stem on, giving you something to hold it and hang it by. Some people will hang the entire plant up to dry, fan leaves and all, but I prefer to trim now.

2. Pull all large fan leaves off with your hands and throw them away.

3. Cut off any leaf protruding from the colas, and save any trim that has trichromes on it, for making kief or hash. Be sure to cup off all leaf tips. I lean to the side of leaving too much leaf on, where some people practically shave them right down to the bud. It is up to you. Leaves don't taste very good.

4. Hang up branches in a dark area, with a small fan moving air around, but not blowing on buds, as it will make them too dry too fast. If that happens, they will be crispy on the outside and still wet inside, yuk! You will want to set up a carbon filter, sucking air out of your drying area. This will keep fresh air over your buds. If it gets too humid, your buds may get mold.

Should look like this below.

drying8.jpg


Pretty!

bagappeal.jpg


I will post one more here in about 10 days, when we get a final weight, to make sure I didn't write a check my growing skilz can't cash ;-) But I think we are slightly above 10oz.
Click to expand...

My question is, how high does the water rise to in your 3.5 when u flood it? And when do u start to flood it once per day? Twice per day? I'm only asking this because I've learned that overwatering rw is no good.

Thanks!
 
Dankemshunter said:
My question is, how high does the water rise to in your 3.5 when u flood it? And when do u start to flood it once per day? Twice per day? I'm only asking this because I've learned that overwatering rw is no good.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

>>>how high does the water rise to in your 3.5

About 3/4th the way up.

>>>when do u start to flood it once per day? Twice per day?

Always once per day. After I can physically feel that the pot is lighter toward the end of the day, then I'll add a second flood.

>>>I've learned that overwatering rw is no good.

True, but it is difficult to over water rockwool, since it holds so much oxygen.
 
TheCapn said:
>>>how high does the water rise to in your 3.5

About 3/4th the way up.

>>>when do u start to flood it once per day? Twice per day?

Always once per day. After I can physically feel that the pot is lighter toward the end of the day, then I'll add a second flood.

>>>I've learned that overwatering rw is no good.

True, but it is difficult to over water rockwool, since it holds so much oxygen.
Click to expand...

Cool man thanks. I have been using 6inch hugos and 8inch mamas and settin them on tables and top fed. You ever messed with the blocks?
 
Dankemshunter said:
Cool man thanks. I have been using 6inch hugos and 8inch mamas and settin them on tables and top fed. You ever messed with the blocks?
Click to expand...

For sure. I used to veg in the 6" block, and then set it on top of a 8" block in flower, and then use the drippers to irrigate. It's a great way to grow if you are ok with smaller plants. 3 oz plants is what I grew in them. Not sure how much bigger you could go. The blocks were heavily saturated with roots by the time I was done. It was kind of expensive too.

Have you seen my new stuff? I'm not using flood and drain any more. I'm doing all top feed. It is more simple and uses a lesser volume of nutrients, saving you money.

Do it Capn Style - Blogs - 420 Magazine ®
 
Back
Top Bottom