Help I'm Screwing Up, Again. Violator Kush, G13 Haze Grow Pic

[OldSkoool]

How far away are your plants from your CFL's?

Using a fan for gentle air circulation?

I'm using a similar CFL set up, but also have four 20W CFL's adding additional light, and have the plants approx 4" away from the CFL's. The stretching may be the result of your plants being too far away from the lights.

 

[Medifreddie]

hey all... (wavin hand from back of room) newbie dude Medifreddie here. Just couldnt wait to wade in with my 2 & 1/2 cents. This looks like as good a place as any. Hey rauc dog, here's some of my experience. I think it was Richard Nixon who said, "In trying to do our best, sometimes we end up screwin everything up"...Such is the case with the growin deal.

Rule of thumb. Less can more which is to say more is not necessarily better except perhaps at the end when the product hits the scale where obviously more is definately mo betta. Folks new to the grow thing tend to think if x amount of nutes is good, XXXXXXX amount should be better. When youve killed enough seedlings, somewhere thru the purple haze, the seedling Gods will send you a message, 'Yo, grower dude, keep it simple..." or something to that effect.

Really, Foxfarm Ocean Blend is bulletproof for soil grows. Everything ya need is in the bag. Seedling or clones dont need anything for awhile. Just water. if something starts to go wrong, step back, stroke your chin and say "hmmmmmmm"...it's the mantra chat for growers near and far. Dont grab the nearest bottle of nutes and start dousin the poor baby girls like you were putting Tobasco on your scrambled eggs. First ask yourself, "Have i done anything different for the plants to act this way? Retrace your steps. Always start with your water. Whether youre growin in soil or hydro, half or better of encountered problems begin and I might add can be solved by addressing your water and what it lacks either naturally or what you might have overdone for it to reach the "Tobasco Syndrome".

In the early stages of growth when your Trainwreck is slowly and agonizingly morphing into a trainwreck, if your water is good to go and your waterin habits are within obsessive compulsive limits, look at your lites. Not close enough to blind you or burn your nose silly. Just make sure your lites are adequate in briteness, distance to plants and amount of time on to coincide with the growth stage of the plant(s).

If all that is cool and copedacetic, you will then enter into the realm of the unknown. Dark & dank with many possible hours of mostly self-inflicted dispair and worry. Whether you emerge from this with healthy plants or crop crapola doesnt matter. It's all in the process. Live and learn, grow and learn & embrace the journey... MF

 

[Raucous Dog]

Thank you all for your much needed advice. I drove 100 miles round trip yesterday and picked up some FFOF. I transplanted the three in the pictures from Solo cups to 4" square pots. When I turned them upside down to let them slide out, the soil fell away with roots that made it all the way to the bottom of the Solo cup. What I ended up with was just a little bunch of roots at the base of the seedlings with no soil. I figured I'd give it a try and transplant them rather than start over. I presoaked the FFOF and transplanted them. I then placed them 4" under my 90 watt UFO with 2, 42 watt CFL's on either side. I gave them a couple squirts each mid morning and I honestly believe I see them recovering. Again, the long slender roots (a few) on each plant fell away during transplanting. Can these plants possibly be recovering this quick? If so, things are looking up.

 

[BWC BayArea]

Take some pics of the setup with the UFO. I wanna see ur setup. As for the damaged roots. They should heal in time, as long as the plant is growing it'll be ok. U can water/feed with vitamin B1 to help with any shock. In the future when transplanting u may wanna wait until the soil is fairly dry (still a little moist) before attempting to remove the root ball. U'll get it in time, I still occasionally will have a root ball crumble a little. It happens when the roots haven't encircled the container much and nothing's really holding the media together.

 

[Medifreddie]

Hey BWC/Dog...Being a soil dude myself I sometimes encounter the notorious & crummy crumbles. I work with 6 inch pots and the Foxfarm Ocean Blend I use, althought in my opinion, best in the west stuff, it can get away from you if yer not careful. Youre right, if my 6 inch pot is a tad rootbound, it will stay together a little better for the transfer. Myself, I find moistening the FF fairly good and given the sides of the container a light compacting squeeze all around also helps. Feet spread wide apart, shoulders back and your seat back in an uprite position is optional...MF

 

[Medifreddie]

Dog, just a thought. In da future, try not to bare the roots(expose the root ball) when transplanting. It's an uneccessary stress/shock you are inflicting on an already vulnerable seedling. If you push in on the Solo cup all the way around, SLOWLY tilt it to apprx 45degrees but the whole thing doesnt want to leave the cup, (you see no movement at the 45degree angle or it looks like the medium is going to come out all broken up, take a pair of scissors and cut 2 sides of the Solo cup 3/4 of the way down the side being careful not to get the scissors into the medium and damaging the plant roots. The cup is only worth a couple pennies. The seedling, well now she's priceless....MF

 

[Raucous Dog]

Here's my current setup. A 90W UFO, two 42W, 6500K CFL's on each side. I have another two 42W CFL's as well as six 24W 2700K, I plan to use for flowering. I have a fan on them and the temp range from 80-82 during the day to 75 at night.
I would have liked to maintain the roots and some soil while transplanting but due to the soil being the suspected problem, when it all feel away, I thought it best to eliminate as much as possible.
Two seem to be getting along pretty well, one hasn't changed a bit. Good ones are G13 (left) and Violator Kush (right). It is true, live and learn. I wouldn't have even gotten this far without the recommendations from the people in this forum.
I'll keep you all posted of the progress and, thanks, again.

 

[Medifreddie]

Dog...Dude, you have enough lite there to light up half of San Diego. Lol! Your plants are not clones yet. They are seedlings. Way to much light for them to process or need. All you need for the next 3 weeks is 1- 2ft flourecent tube 18 hrs a day. You can go 24/7 but what's the hurry...just my opinion... MF

 

[BWC BayArea]

The LED should be ok for now.

 

[Damian Thorn]

So easy, this Caveman continues to mess up. Three out of four popped in 2 days, front and right rear are G13, left rear is Violator, all feminized. They are currently under four 42W, 6500K CFL's. I have another two 42W and six 24W, 2700K CFL's, along with a 90W UFO LED that I am not using. The front and left rear stretched really quick and I did back fill the stem by an inch for support. I killed a tree in my backyard by back filling.
These ladies are two weeks old. I really expected more growth by now. They have been on a 18/6 light schedule since they popped out. I'm using Miracle Grow Organic potting soil with no added perlite, etc. (I used my Ocean Forest up on previous failed attempts and delegated it to my tomatoes). The stems are really thin at the soil level and are larger at the first leaf, taperering up. Strange, indeed. Due to my having a fan on them to try and strengthen them, I need to support them.
At this rate with an approx. veg time of approx. 2 months, these girlies will be pretty petite and potentially end up with a small yield.

Violator Kush (Indica) comes in @ 22% THC, G13 Haze (Sativa) is 20% THC. Help me get there.

Any and all advice would be appreciated.

1.) What's wrong?
2.) Should I transplant?
3.) Can I backfill the stems up to leaves with soil without killing them?
4.) More lights?
5.) Am my just being impatient? Give them time?

Please, please help. This is my fourth attempt this summer. I either have a black thumb or I'm a complete idiot.
I've tried various germination and grow methods taking advice from this great forum over the past several months without success, so I'm a little paranoid now that I have something to get excited about. I guess I'm thinking the worst with this slow, skinny, growth.

first off get rid of that dam UFO light..you just wasted a few 100s there...the yellowing and slow growth is only one thing that comes to mind..over watering ..and the miracla grow...naa i have used that for years..i have bought it by the pallet befor for growing soo thats not your issue...however if your feeding them \ anything other then well water or distilled water dont e...but however a nute burn is brown tips and leaf curl...if i were u..get some bigger or wider pots that have better drainage..and be very carful about watering themmm

 

[Raucous Dog]

Get rid of the UFO or just the UFO? Hmmm!!!! Which direction to go in now?
I'll tell you what I found coming home from work. The three are set up in, basically, a triangular pattern under the UFO. I noticed that this morning the plants were strait up. Ten hours later when I gave home, all three were leaning towards the middle of the UFO @ about a 30 degree angle. I noticed when they were strait up, they were all under the red LED's. At 30 degrees, there lined up pointing @ the blue, inner ring of LED's. So much so that I had to prop them up. I think I will shut off the UFO and reposition the CFL's. Strange, indeed.
BTW, I only use distilled water and I am now giving two squirts twice a day. Light cycle is 18/6. A fan is blowing a gentle breeze.

How about this light setup? The CFL's are a little over 4" above the ladies. Still too much light, not enough height for the seedlings?

 

[Damian Thorn]

well i didit see that last pic..if you want to try leds..those are way way to close.... they need to be at least 12 to 28inchs away...if not you get too much distortion and the light is not evenly blended..that is what happens when you grow plants with leds way too close to the plant..its like taking one sliver of the spectrum that plants us which they need a broad multi spectrum and taking it and just showing a left that one nano meter ..leds need to be a good distance apart

 

[BWC BayArea]

Sorry raucous, what omenman pointed out I was unaware of. I only knew that they generated very little heat meaning that htey could be moved closer. Guess its just a sales pitch that the stores use. Now I see why. According to omenman u can only move the LED so close b4 the plants lose usable light if I understand correctly. I think I'll kick back and let some1 else better qualified to handle the light issues. I'm only familiar with MH and HPS.

 

[Medifreddie]

Yo Dog...

LIGHTING- The UFO is better suited for a larger grow-op. It's roughly equivalent to a 600-1000 watt lite without the heat and watt usage. Dont fret, your money isnt wasted. I would crank up the UFO when my plants have reached a foot or better. No need to use the floros and the UFO in combination (way overkill) unless using the flouros for side growth lite later in the grow. You only have 3 seedlings. Reduce your liting to 1 flouro centered over the three seedlings and maintain 8 to 12 inches above (usually 6") simply because your single lite is still fairly large for such little plants. Do an 18/6 and make sure during the 6 hr sleep period there is NO lite source.(<--Very important) I suggest the 18/6 run as opposed to a 24/7 because it takes more grow savvy to bring up seedlings hammering them with lite 24 hrs a day. The 18/6 will get you there and when you get everything hittin on all 8 cylinders, it will go quickly. HFP!! HFP!! HFP!! Have F------ Patience!

WATERING- Depending on the heat being emitted from your lite(s) is just one of the factors which will determine how often you will need to water, which youll learn as you go along. I say that because you will begin to notice a time pattern as the seedlings require water. Youll find yourself watering every 3 days, every 4 days etc. When you find your pattern/schedule, there will be less chance of screwing something up. IT'S ONLY WHEN YOU APPROACH THIS EFFORT INTERMITTENTLY/HALF-ASSED AND WITH IRREGULARITY DO THINGS START GOING SOUTH!! Rule of thumb. With your finger scratch the soil surface in the pot down to the depth of your first knuckle (apprx 1 inch). If it's dry, water. If it's moist, dont mess with it. IMPORTANT- Avoid stagger watering (watering a different plant each time you water) Water ALL your plants on the same day. Less confusing! Make sure you have drainage holes in the bottom of the pot. When watering, water around the perimeter of your pot (avoid watering next to stalk/trunk) until you see water coming out of the drainholes. That indicates enough water. Gently relevel any soil movement your watering may have caused. Now put the watering can down, step away and admire. Youre done till next time Bro! Again, 3 things determine how often you water when youre dealing with seedlings. Soil consistency, the heat emission of your particular lite(s) and the size of your pot. *Closeness of lite to plant can also play a part in the drying out process.

Lastly, NO NUTES(nutrients) from start of sprouts to at least 3 weeks to a month. Your soil will nurture and take care of the babes for the first month IF you start with good soil. If your seedlings starts to stretch to a point of falling over, mini-stake them. Dont raise the lite! If they begin stretching too much (long,thin or spindly), lower the lite to 2 to 4 inches above the plant(s) which will slow down the vertical growth and help the seedling(s) gain stability/stockiness. In your particular case, I would be careful if you need to lower to the 2" to 4" height, your floro appears to be large compared to most. A 40 watt tube will cause no problemos at 2 to 4 inches... *Note- a 4 to 6 inch pot is preferable during start-up and until a foot or so in height is reached. The soil dryout span will be less in a smaller pot as there is less soil surface for the lite to heat which means more already added nutrients will stay in the soil longer because you will water less often. Peace & good luck MF

 

[BWC BayArea]

^Good info Medifreddie. Nicely put. +reps

 

[Raucous Dog]

Exit, stage left. Good information. Thank you so much.
I switch from 4 x 42 = 168W to 1 42W, centered and 6" from plant.
The room is completely backed out and always has been for this grow.
One of the G13 (front) is in sad shape. Must have been the transplant.
Who said growing was easy? With all your input, reviewing the various methods and potential problems and things to consider, it's anything but.
However, I will help trying and consider all points of view. It now comes down to principle, no matter what the cost. Thank you, again.

 

[Medifreddie]

LOL RD...There's a fine line between dedication & obsession. If you throw in principal, then it's game on...peace n good luck MF

 

[Damian Thorn]

Sorry raucous, what omenman pointed out I was unaware of. I only knew that they generated very little heat meaning that htey could be moved closer. Guess its just a sales pitch that the stores use. Now I see why. According to omenman u can only move the LED so close b4 the plants lose usable light if I understand correctly. I think I'll kick back and let some1 else better qualified to handle the light issues. I'm only familiar with MH and HPS.

u have the idea.. but its not about losing usable light..its about them getting too much of just one spectrum and having too much of it..without being blended..but that ufo light is nothing close to a 600 or 1000 hps..so dont get your hopes up...not a chance...if that was the case everyone and there mother would be using them..granted leds work in there own right..but use them with hps and cfls...