Heads up: I got scammed by Coffee Shop Seeds

[CBDMed]

Sativa grow in tropical climates.

Originally, hahaha

They veg in the rainy season (summer) and flower in the early dry season (winter).

Ok, thank you Sativa1970.
We are 1° north off the equator. We are just now leaving winter, and we have a lot of rain. I think in three or four months it will get dryer and warmer, and we can try to flower them out then

So it seems to be a good time to be planting seeds and rooting clones.
I am still trying to figure the climate out here (because it's very different from what I'm used to).

So they have a natural morphology and genetic resistance to mold. They have more space between leaves for air flow and long thin buds that dry quicker.

They generally grow in locations with a constant 10mph+ "tropical breeze".

Well, Panama is close to here, and I was in Panama a long time ago, and the weather patterns there are different. Yes, we did have a "Tradewinds" tropical breeze from December through about May in Panama, and it seems like you had a constant breeze then, but the same breeze does not seem to exist here.

in Colombia on the Pacific side, you got real strong winds in August (so strong they broke my greenhouse), but I have not seen those winds here on the Atlantic side.
On the Atlantic side, everything seems very different, and I'm still trying to figure everything out.

Choosing a location with a steady breeze and pruning for air through the plant are the most important factors.

Well, I think they put the greenhouse 80 yards or 80 m from the old house, so it is kind of semi-flat, but it should catch some decent winds or breezes. I think it is in a good place. It should catch direct sun from about 9 AM until sunset, with any breezes that might occur.

How many weeks do you have from 13/11 days to the rainy season? 6 weeks, use a fast flowering indica. 8 weeks, use a tolerant sativa. Rain right before harvest isn't enough time for mold to be an issue.

Well, we are 1° north off the equator. The daylight fluctuates between like 12 hours and three minutes of light to 12 hours and 15 minutes of light and back, or something like that.
We probably have a good three or four months of "summer" (USA winter) where it's warm enough that the plants will not need protection at night.

I understand what you were talking about about sativa being taller and looser bud structure. I tried to take clones of anything sativa that I had. I was excited that Peyote Wi-Fi CBD gave me a sativa pheno.
Actually, I was just getting ready to post on that on my other threads. Would you want to join me on my other threads? (That way I do not end up double-posting all over the place.)

Humid Temperate Colombian Andes Greenhouse Organic Grow

Probably I will have to train them when to use neem oil, and when only to use castille soap. Or possibly canola oil. Are you expecting a lot of bugs? I am thinking I should probably wait and see how this goes, because these boys are focused on low-cost. They will have a passive operation...

www.420magazine.com

Thank you, Sativa.

 

[CBDMed]

get a hole of the breeders and let them know what happening - maybe they (breeders) will pull their seed from them. FYI ???? Mena what else does one have but to believe /trust the breeder or coffee shop

Hey Safeman.
Yes I really made a mistake when I did not check to make sure that coffee shop was still an authorized sponsor. If they are an active sponsor then you can ask the moderators for help, but if they are not an active sponsor then I don't think the moderators want to get involved. So any further orders a place I'm going to check the sponsor page 1st.
I think the breeders will probably sell wholesale to whoever buys from them.
I think I just have to vet my sellers a lot better.
I've tried to be generous and forgiving at every turn with coffee shop, but it seems like he just abuses things. So I do not plan to buy anything more from him, ever.
I do not know that he set out to do me evil, but his business practices are so slack, it cost me $151.02 and a whole mass of time.

 

[CBDMed]

My best two THC phenos right now are not from one of the big seed sellers... you know, the ones who seem to have every strain under the sun. I got the original seeds from Humboldt Seed Co, by way of a "boutique" seed vendor. Germination was fantastic, and the seed packs even had the harvest date on them. So, I learned that it's a good idea to find an experienced breeder who is breeding for specific characteristics, which in my case is fungus/mold resistance. I hit pay dirt with HI-BISCUS... a nice 50/50 with sativa effects. Very stinky and sticky at harvest time. Zero bud rot. The plant is fairly compact and shaped like a ball... at least that's how the clones turn out.

Yes, I can understand that there are certain seeds that you cannot get from the "big name" sponsors, but the sponsors help keep the lights on here on the forum, and the forum helps me a lot (you guys). If I choose an active sponsor in the future, Then if I get ripped off again, I can ask the moderators for help.
(But as it is, I did not check, and Coffee Shop was not an active sponsor, so they can rip me off, or just plaindo lousy disrespectful business, and I'm just stuck.)

 

[cbdhemp808]

Sativa grow in tropical climates. They veg in the rainy season (summer) and flower in the early dry season (winter). So they have a natural morphology and genetic resistance to mold. They have more space between leaves for air flow and long thin buds that dry quicker. They generally grow in locations with a constant 10mph+ "tropical breeze".

Choosing a location with a steady breeze and pruning for air through the plant are the most important factors. How many weeks do you have from 13/11 days to the rainy season? 6 weeks, use a fast flowering indica. 8 weeks, use a tolerant sativa. Rain right before harvest isn't enough time for mold to be an issue.

It all depends on what you mean by "sativa". There are the original sativas before humans started breeding cannabis, probably tall plants likely related to modern-day industrial hemp, with very low amounts of cannabinoids. Then there are the landrace sativas that were bred by humans which incorporated indica genetics for potency. And then there are the modern sativa/indica hybrids which are known as sativa-dominant.

[EDITED] Here's Mango Thai, a landrace sativa from Laos with big, long colas. This one is likely resistant to fungus/mold, but I don't think it's because of the morphology or something hidden in the genetics, or local tropical adaptation, etc. I think the natural resistance is directly from two things: 1) high resin production and 2) high amounts of pine terpenes, which give a piney/skunky odor. I believe the original incorporation of these terpenes into sativa genetics comes from Afghan Kush genetics (and probably other landraces from cool, dry climates, such as Nepal).

photo: The Real Seed Company

Here's another landrace sativa, Honduras, showing plenty of pine terpenes...
"...mainly contains the following monoterpenes: very high amounts of terpinolene and high amounts of beta myrcene, with variability in the high alpha pinene content, followed by moderate quantities of trans ocimene and variability in the moderate content of beta pinene, and smaller amounts of cedrol, limonene, linalool, trans phytol, alpha phellandrene, alpha terpineol, alpha terpinene, gamma terpinene..."

photo: Ace Seeds

I think there are plenty of modern sativa/indica hybrids, known as sativa-dominant, which are not naturally resistant to fungus/mold, which may have what most would consider an ideal morphology.

So, one can attempt to work with particular sativa-dominant phenos and make the environment as best as possible to minimize the impact of fungus/mold, or one can determine the terpene profile of the particular pheno to be grown.

I am interested in growing sativa, indica, and 50/50, but in terms of sativa I'm looking for a fast-flowering sativa-dominant pheno with high pine terpenes. There are a bunch of options. And then there's the issue of pheno hunting to find the ones with the high pine terpenes, and so I'm trying to select the best options with minimal hunting involved, so that means a well-bred, stable seed line with one or more sativa phenos, and few or one indica pheno.

 

[Sativa1970]

By sativa I am referring to genus sativa sativa that can only grow in tropical conditions originating from south east Asia. Not the sub genus sativa indica that only grows in cool arid conditions originating in middle east. Yes, they both share lineage belonging to the family, hemp cannabis from Himalayas. They are genetically different genus of the same family. Sativa was the genus origin of the THC trait, passed down to it's subclass sativa indica. Yes, plants naturally growing in areas between northern temperate and equatorial zones will be a hybrid and still be a distinct land strain. All true equatorial land strain will be sativa and arid temperate land strain will all be indica. True pure genetics are hard to find in a commercial seed bank. Genetics only play a small part in mold resistance if you control where and how it grows. Grew outdoors for decades and only ever had one plant get mold.

 

[CBDMed]

By sativa I am referring to genus sativa sativa that can only grow in tropical conditions originating from south east Asia. Not the sub genus sativa indica that only grows in cool arid conditions originating in middle east. Yes, they both share lineage belonging to the family, hemp cannabis from Himalayas. They are genetically different genus of the same family. Sativa was the genus origin of the THC trait, passed down to it's subclass sativa indica. Yes, plants naturally growing in areas between northern temperate and equatorial zones will be a hybrid and still be a distinct land strain. All true equatorial land strain will be sativa and arid temperate land strain will all be indica. True pure genetics are hard to find in a commercial seed bank. Genetics only play a small part in mold resistance if you control where and how it grows. Grew outdoors for decades and only ever had one plant get mold.

Hey Sativa1970,
Where you is? (Where you be?)
I never had anything I grew get mold when I was in Washington State.
I never had anything I grew get mold on the Pacific side of Colombia.
Only, I have had lots of things mold (and get eaten, and get infected) here on the Pacific side of Colombia.

I just took a picture of this today. I think maybe it is an orchid? Possibly Tillandsia biflora? Whatever it is, it grabs water from the air.

And just to say it, I have never seen bricks or concrete grow mushrooms until I moved here!
So, where did you grow outdoors that you never had a problem with mold?

 

[cbdhemp808]

By sativa I am referring to genus sativa sativa that can only grow in tropical conditions originating from south east Asia. Not the sub genus sativa indica that only grows in cool arid conditions originating in middle east. Yes, they both share lineage belonging to the family, hemp cannabis from Himalayas. They are genetically different genus of the same family. Sativa was the genus origin of the THC trait, passed down to it's subclass sativa indica. Yes, plants naturally growing in areas between northern temperate and equatorial zones will be a hybrid and still be a distinct land strain. All true equatorial land strain will be sativa and arid temperate land strain will all be indica. True pure genetics are hard to find in a commercial seed bank.

Genetics only play a small part in mold resistance if you control where and how it grows. Grew outdoors for decades and only ever had one plant get mold.

I answered in my thread HERE.

 

[Fenderbender]

Ah see that's also what I thought, what Sativa70 is saying, Sativa morphology very different and maybe very airy for a reason.

Isn't there something else in the genetic make up that defines resistance, can't be that only pine-y weed is? what do you do if you don't really like that flavour?
So do high Terpinoline & Pinene strains come from very humid areas? as per natural selection?

And I'm just now reading mandala seeds seem to have a nice section on bud rot;

https://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Preventing-Bud-Mold

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ah see that's also what I thought, what Sativa70 is saying, Sativa morphology very different and maybe very airy for a reason.

Isn't there something else in the genetic make up that defines resistance, can't be that only pine-y weed is? what do you do if you don't really like that flavour?
So do high Terpinoline & Pinene strains come from very humid areas? as per natural selection?

And I'm just now reading mandala seeds seem to have a nice section on bud rot;

https://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Preventing-Bud-Mold

Answered HERE.

 

[CBDMed]

I answered in my thread HERE.

Those were both good reads, thanks I learned a lot. (Worth the trip.)

 

[CBDMed]

Ah see that's also what I thought, what Sativa70 is saying, Sativa morphology very different and maybe very airy for a reason.

Isn't there something else in the genetic make up that defines resistance, can't be that only pine-y weed is? what do you do if you don't really like that flavour?
So do high Terpinoline & Pinene strains come from very humid areas? as per natural selection?

And I'm just now reading mandala seeds seem to have a nice section on bud rot;

https://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Preventing-Bud-Mold

Hey fenderbender,
You are asking all good questions. I will try to answer you seriously.

As a medical patient. I need CBD, and THC also helps me a lot. I am so thankful that this stinky green herb has been sent into my life!
So yes, I have flavors and effects that I prefer, but if I cannot get my wants, I just have to be thankful that I can get my needs met.

I have a preference for dense Indica but it will not grow here reliably.
To be practical, I have to ask myself what grows here reliably without rot, and then pick the best of what is available to me.
I do not know of any other practical options.
But good question.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I have a preference for dense Indica but it will not grow here reliably.

I bet Northern Lights #5 would work.

photo: Leafly

 

[CBDMed]

I bet Northern Lights #5 would work.

photo: Leafly

Yeah good point.
So what is the difference between Northern Lights Number Five, and Atomic Northern Lights?

 

[Sativa1970]

The plant in your pic is a bromelaid. From the pineapple family with air plants and orchids. Elevation determines if they are red or green. We bring them in for the winter cold but you only have to water them a couple times a year to feed since we grow them in little pots here. Upper 90s to 110 temp and 90 to 100RH is a standard veg season. Harvest closer to low 80s temp and RH. Winter drops to -15F.

I am in the midwest. On the edge of the Ozark Mtns. More mountains to the south but I look down on corn fields as far as you can see the other 3 directions. Ever experienced the humidity of a corn field or up in the foothills? Add those together. I got mushrooms in the bed and tire sidewalls of my work truck when I park it on vacation for 2 weeks.

Tall and airy/ short and dense are characteristics associated with sativa/indica but not the defining factors. Leaf stomata are how you determine genus. Stomata are pores on the leaf that open and close. They draw in CO2 while releasing O2 and water vapor. Indica have fewer and smaller stomata to retain water. Sativa have many and larger stomata to expel water. It isn't a better wax coating keeping water out. It is the ability to shed excess water quickly after the rain stops. Towels left in a bucket of water for days will not mold. If you spread one out on a cloths line and wad the other up on the floor which will mold? You need saturation and air over time to grow mold. Remove saturation in a shorter time, mold can't grow.

I grow equatorial sativas. prune for air flow, and grew on the prevailing windward side of hills. Did that for 20 years without any mold issues. The plant that did mold was one I forgot I planted. The suburbs pushed out to me so I moved indoors almost 20 years ago.

 

[Sativa1970]

Terpenes are essential oils that can be effective against mold and spores. Cannabis stores it's terpenes in the trichomes. When the mold eats into the trichomes they spill open killing the active mold and some of the spores. Great for the plant because it protects the seeds. Saving the plant at the expense of the trichomes kind of defeats our purpose of growing them.

 

[CBDMed]

The plant in your pic is a bromelaid. From the pineapple family with air plants and orchids. Elevation determines if they are red or green. We bring them in for the winter cold but you only have to water them a couple times a year to feed since we grow them in little pots here. Upper 90s to 110 temp and 90 to 100RH is a standard veg season. Harvest closer to low 80s temp and RH. Winter drops to -15F.

I am in the midwest. On the edge of the Ozark Mtns. More mountains to the south but I look down on corn fields as far as you can see the other 3 directions. Ever experienced the humidity of a corn field or up in the foothills? Add those together. I got mushrooms in the bed and tire sidewalls of my work truck when I park it on vacation for 2 weeks.

Tall and airy/ short and dense are characteristics associated with sativa/indica but not the defining factors. Leaf stomata are how you determine genus. Stomata are pores on the leaf that open and close. They draw in CO2 while releasing O2 and water vapor. Indica have fewer and smaller stomata to retain water. Sativa have many and larger stomata to expel water. It isn't a better wax coating keeping water out. It is the ability to shed excess water quickly after the rain stops. Towels left in a bucket of water for days will not mold. If you spread one out on a cloths line and wad the other up on the floor which will mold? You need saturation and air over time to grow mold. Remove saturation in a shorter time, mold can't grow.

I grow equatorial sativas. prune for air flow, and grew on the prevailing windward side of hills. Did that for 20 years without any mold issues. The plant that did mold was one I forgot I planted. The suburbs pushed out to me so I moved indoors almost 20 years ago.

Hey Sativa.
Thanks for sharing your history. And thanks for sharing about the pores. (I did not know that.)

I love the Ozarks, and almost moved there one time. Yes you do get humidity in summer. Thankfully it is not humid in the cold. (My dad once exclaimed, "The Ozarks! Close to heaven, man!")

I grew my first plants in Washington State around 2016-2017, and had zero problems with mold.
Later I had to move to a place where I could not grow, and recently got back to it.

Growing on the Pacific side of Colombia was easy.
In this particular location (tippy-top of the Amazon River basin / Atlantic drainbasin) I had bud mold indoors under LED on Purple Kush CBD Auto, Northern Light CBD Auto (surprise!), Eleven Roses CBD Auto, and I forget what else.
I also lost two TopTao Blueberry Crystals (basically an auto Blueberry with some Haze) on the roof, under a greenhouse with the windows and doors removed.
When I stopped to ask myself what was wrong, the light bulb came on that the common thread was indica, and indica-dominant strains.

I love indica. It helps me turn my brain off, and go to sleep. (But not if it is moldy.)
(There was something else I lost to humidity in this location but I forget what right now. I have also lost crops to bugs / Russet mites.)

I vastly prefer growing indoors. The environment is much easier to control. My problem is that I cannot afford the light bill, so I need to find ways to drop/lose the electicity cost.
We are trying to start an eco-sustainable farm, so the obvious answer was a greenhouse, except that greenhouses are humid, and I lost plants to humidity on the roof in a covered setup--so I am trying to figure out what to do.

The first obvious answer was to go sativa, and sativa dominant.
The second obvious answer (which @cbdhemp808 and others helped me with) was to look for mold-resistant phenos. So that is what this whole mess with Coffee Shop was about.

@cbdhemp808 's answer is that there are certain terpenes that inhibit mold. Sounds good.
I started a soak on five Mango Biche Colombian sativas, which are *supposed to be 70-30 sativa dominant, and they have the reputation for being practically bulletproof to all Colombian pests, mold, humidity, rains, etc. That sounds pretty good right now. So I am soaking five seeds.
If I get even one good mother I can make clones for next year, and then put them with CBD in the grinder. They are super psychoactive (I thought I had entered my host's Wi-Fi and was communicating with him in another dimension or something.)

Basically I am just popping beans and looking for sativa phenos. And trying to keep them from rotting. And making clones. I got some trichoderma which we will be applying to the grow.

We are changing the greenhouse design to have mesh-and-wire walls (at @cbdhemp808 's suggestion). We will put a plastic "sweater" sidewalls on during veg, and then take them off during the warm months, so we can use local valley winds instead of electric fans (but we are wiring the electricity in case).
Since the daylight and nighttime is a near-constant 12/12 year round, we will add night interruption lighting during veg, and then take away the lights and the plastic "sweater" for flowering (to let the winds do their work).
If plants make it, they make it. And if they do not, they do not.
I expect Mango Biche will make it, and we will see what else makes it.

Do you have any advice about how to reduce / inhibit mold when I am already searching for sativas that do not mold, and plan to put trichoderma?

Thanks.

 

[cbdhemp808]

So what is the difference between Northern Lights Number Five, and Atomic Northern Lights?

NL5 is Afghani x Hawaiian sativa (Thai haze?), according to Seedfinder.eu.

Atomic NL is a different version of NL, and according to Seedfinder.eu, it's specifically a different version of NL #5.

NL originally came from the Seattle area, then Sensi Seeds in Amsterdam made their version of it, then Dr. Atomic from Canada bred the Sensi version with the Seattle version... something like that:

"The legend is that Dr. Atomic brought the foreign Northern Lights back to Canada where he then back-crossed it with some of its distant North American relatives. The resulting plant is an Indica-dominant plant with about 15-20% Sativa components that goes by Atomic Northern Lights. The Atomic Northern Lights strain tends to grow short and fast, while consistently producing heavy yields." — MedicalJane.com​

I am focusing on a NL #5 seed line derived from Bodhi, by way of BC Seed Company, because I've been able to find terpene information and a source for the seed.

 

[Roy Growin]

The title of this thread is unfortunate, they are good sponsors

 

[cbdhemp808]

The title of this thread is unfortunate, they are good sponsors

they are no longer sponsors

 

[CBDMed]

The title of this thread is unfortunate, they are good sponsors

Hi Roy.
Yes, it is terribly sad that I had to write a thread like this in order to get a response from them. But when someone takes $151.02 and does nothing, and does not respond, you have to do something to get your money back.
Communication was abysmal. I would write repeatedly, and he did not respond until after I made phone calls, and a notice to my bank.
I would have MUCH rather had a refund, and respectful dealings. Then I could continue to buy seeds from him.
Really too bad.