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Ryguy2021
Well-Known Member
Hey ppm I'll get back to ya later. At work now but if I can help I will!
Growing tips anytime
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ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
I had a respectful comment.
In a past post within this thread, you said:
"The Epsom salts are great for a base when you're out of PH down...".
Epsom salts (MgSO4) do not contain the acid forming hydronium ion [H3O+], (commonly written as [H+]), or the base forming hydroxyl ion [OH-]. I do not see how Epsom salts can, by themselves, affect pH of a water solution or soilless media one way or the other.
In fact, I think it is a myth that Epsom salts have any effect on soilless media pH without the action of sulfate reducing soil bacteria. I cite this Pro Mix article:
MYTH Series: Epsom Salt Decreases the pH of Growing Media | PRO-MIX Greenhouse Growing.
As indicated in the article, sulfur reducing soil bacteria can sometimes cause the pH of a soilless media to drop a very slight amount due to their eating of sulfate. As the soil bacteria eat sulfate, hydrogen sulfide gas is formed and with the addition of water, a certain amount of the sulfide gas ends up as sulfuric acid. Thus, a slight pH drop in the media. However, if this were the case in a grower's soil or soilless mix, a grower would notice it immediately because hydrogen sulfide gas smells like rotten eggs and is very distinct. Root rot commonly is the result of such conditions.
Common forms of sulfate reducing bacteria occur in unclean grow conditions where soil pore oxygen is at a minimum and water saturation is at a maximum. When you have water saturation of soil or soilless media the grower has essentially "squeezed-out" all the oxygen contained in the empty soil/soiless media pore spaces and replaced it with low oxygen containing water/nutes droplets. Sulfur reducing bacteria can thrive in anoxic conditions, for example, in sewers, septic tanks, deep lake and ocean sediments and hydroponic grows without oxygen exchange (i.e. no hydroponic liquid cycling pump and no air pump to bubble air into the hydroponic liquid nutes).
In fact, my personal experience of adding Epsom salts to water is that the addition does not effect solution pH one way or the other (and by extension "clean" soilless media pH one way or the other).
What are your thoughts here?
In a past post within this thread, you said:
"The Epsom salts are great for a base when you're out of PH down...".
Epsom salts (MgSO4) do not contain the acid forming hydronium ion [H3O+], (commonly written as [H+]), or the base forming hydroxyl ion [OH-]. I do not see how Epsom salts can, by themselves, affect pH of a water solution or soilless media one way or the other.
In fact, I think it is a myth that Epsom salts have any effect on soilless media pH without the action of sulfate reducing soil bacteria. I cite this Pro Mix article:
MYTH Series: Epsom Salt Decreases the pH of Growing Media | PRO-MIX Greenhouse Growing.
As indicated in the article, sulfur reducing soil bacteria can sometimes cause the pH of a soilless media to drop a very slight amount due to their eating of sulfate. As the soil bacteria eat sulfate, hydrogen sulfide gas is formed and with the addition of water, a certain amount of the sulfide gas ends up as sulfuric acid. Thus, a slight pH drop in the media. However, if this were the case in a grower's soil or soilless mix, a grower would notice it immediately because hydrogen sulfide gas smells like rotten eggs and is very distinct. Root rot commonly is the result of such conditions.
Common forms of sulfate reducing bacteria occur in unclean grow conditions where soil pore oxygen is at a minimum and water saturation is at a maximum. When you have water saturation of soil or soilless media the grower has essentially "squeezed-out" all the oxygen contained in the empty soil/soiless media pore spaces and replaced it with low oxygen containing water/nutes droplets. Sulfur reducing bacteria can thrive in anoxic conditions, for example, in sewers, septic tanks, deep lake and ocean sediments and hydroponic grows without oxygen exchange (i.e. no hydroponic liquid cycling pump and no air pump to bubble air into the hydroponic liquid nutes).
In fact, my personal experience of adding Epsom salts to water is that the addition does not effect solution pH one way or the other (and by extension "clean" soilless media pH one way or the other).
What are your thoughts here?
Epson salt ,I see it used for a shot of magnesium for the deficiency. I’ve only saw it once for ph adjustment and never heard about it again well till now . I grow in hydro and just use calmag for the deficiency, ro water and the high power led .
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
I use Epsom salts to "green" my plants up a bit. Sometimes they look a little "yellow" after a flush in the peat/perlite mix. I use it then and sometimes during intense veg growth phases. I also use the recommended amount of cal-mag with nutes, however, I am never sure that using the cal-mag as directed by General Hydroponics instructions satisfies the plant's need to restore it's magnesium reserve (directions on GH flyer for use of cal-mag indicates to "vary" the amount as "needed"). Addition of Epsom salts is an easy and cheap way to green my plants up. Within a 2 or 3 days I see results.
And thanks for the link , we have a great amount of promix growers. here in 420 . Mine are pretty dark green from the extra N in the Calmag . I have plenty epson salt next to the bath tub so if I need it I have it on hand . And thanks again for the information.
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Don't use the scented kind of Epsom salts though...unless you want that "clean and fresh" feeling to inhabit your grow. LOL!
Thanks I just buy the cheap stuff , you have to pay extra for the scent
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Ryguy2021
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So, real talk here.. I've used Epsom salts 2 times in 25 yrs on emergency basis and it did indeed raise my ph as "myth" has it
I run r/o h2o so its imperative that I use cal mag. I don't doubt your article has some merit but I can say from my own experience that it did come in handy in a pinch and did raise my numbers correctly.
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
I just use Epsom salts for a quick "green-up" after a flush or during intense veg periods.So, real talk here.. I've used Epsom salts 2 times in 25 yrs on emergency basis and it did indeed raise my ph as "myth" has it
I have six mother plants that are pretty light in color . Got to keep them going . I’ll try this on two of them this morning and watch the progress. Thanks again.
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
You are most welcome. Epsom salts can definitely help. All the nitrogen in the world is useless if plants cannot photosynthesize properly because of lack of magnesium and/or calcium.
I have pretty good supply of calcium available in my slightly hard spring water (200-230 ppm). Seems to work well for watering/nutes - not too hard and very low in other things like iron and metals. Almost no magnesium in it though. My outside garden did well this year using this spring water source plus some Epsom salts.
I may switch to an RO sourced water eventually. I gotta watch the expenses though - money ain't cheap.
I think "Mother" plants need to be kept low in nitrogen anyway. Apparently, that is the way the clones take best. Is that true in your experience?
You ought to have my water 430 ppm my plants won’t put up with it. I always used the ro water from the house which worked fine . Just put the MSA and calmag in the day before mixing main nutrients. RO check this one out , Bob Brown recommended it 4 stage for hydro and not a bad price .
Yes I do notice the clones are always light in color at first . Two of my mothers are dark the purple punch and monster Zkittles and they all get the same feeding . I guess maybe the strain ?
Yes I do notice the clones are always light in color at first . Two of my mothers are dark the purple punch and monster Zkittles and they all get the same feeding . I guess maybe the strain ?
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Hard water is a pain. I am checking into RO systems. I would like to get an RO system soon. Thanks for the link. I will check it out.
I also heard that you should not feed "Mother" plants high N because it adversely affects the clones. They say clones with high N want to leaf out rather than root. They say feed more flowering nutes, high in P, to "Mother" plants to enhance root growth in clones rather than N for leaves. I don't know if any of that is true. Makes sense at a certain level. What's your experience? Do you seem to clone OK with "normal" amounts of nute N?
That is my biggest worry in the world - I have never been able to clone consistently. I recently bought a liquid spray cloning machine box. Have not used it yet. I am hoping that will help. I have been practicing rooting apple tree twigs - I did OK last Summer - 4 out of 4 rooted. I used sterilized sand and root powder, placed them in an area near the light and put a zip lock bag loosely over them which I misted a couple times a day. Seems maybe I am doing better - clone-wise.
I’ve got a cloner and have been 100% for over the last year . Help these vets out by giving them clones ,so helping them helps me learn how easy it’s been on me . I’ve got MC nutrients and just 1 gram in a gallon (6 gallon cloner) and for some reason they just take off . I just mist them in the morning . Just once a day more makes it take longer to get roots as I’ve noticed.
I keep my mother plants on 5 grams of MC a gallon each feeding. I should be on 6 grams at this point, but why when there doing great if I don’t forget about them !
I keep my mother plants on 5 grams of MC a gallon each feeding. I should be on 6 grams at this point, but why when there doing great if I don’t forget about them !
Man all this talk of RO water and PPMs 
glad I'm in soil now, this old man doesn't have to worry about none of that shit 
And BTW...Epsom salts...MgSO₄... (Magnesium) helps the plant absorb the other nutrients it needs
Improves Nutrient Uptake
Epsom salt contains magnesium, which is an essential nutrient that helps a plant perform some of its essential functions. One of these is that magnesium increases a plant's ability to absorb other nutrients, such as nitrogen and phosphorus, without which it would struggle to thrive.
How do you use Epsom salt as fertilizer?
To boost nutrient intake, mix two tablespoons of Epsom salts with one gallon of water and spray onto leaves, rather than onto the roots, for maximum absorption. Alternately, add the salts directly to the soil: 1 teaspoon of salts for every foot of plant height.
glad I'm in soil now, this old man doesn't have to worry about none of that shit And BTW...Epsom salts...MgSO₄... (Magnesium) helps the plant absorb the other nutrients it needs
Improves Nutrient Uptake
Epsom salt contains magnesium, which is an essential nutrient that helps a plant perform some of its essential functions. One of these is that magnesium increases a plant's ability to absorb other nutrients, such as nitrogen and phosphorus, without which it would struggle to thrive.
How do you use Epsom salt as fertilizer?
To boost nutrient intake, mix two tablespoons of Epsom salts with one gallon of water and spray onto leaves, rather than onto the roots, for maximum absorption. Alternately, add the salts directly to the soil: 1 teaspoon of salts for every foot of plant height.
You get that grow room back up yet ? And always great for a tip , Thanks .Man all this talk of RO water and PPMs
And BTW...Epsom salts...MgSO₄... (Magnesium) helps the plant absorb the other nutrients it needs
Improves Nutrient Uptake
Epsom salt contains magnesium, which is an essential nutrient that helps a plant perform some of its essential functions. One of these is that magnesium increases a plant's ability to absorb other nutrients, such as nitrogen and phosphorus, without which it would struggle to thrive.
How do you use Epsom salt as fertilizer?
To boost nutrient intake, mix two tablespoons of Epsom salts with one gallon of water and spray onto leaves, rather than onto the roots, for maximum absorption. Alternately, add the salts directly to the soil: 1 teaspoon of salts for every foot of plant height.
I am adding epsom foliar sprays to this grow as well! I am also using epsom salt and cane sugar transplant soil addendums and epsom salt toppings along with the earthworm castings I already use. I have heard excellent things about the epsomMan all this talk of RO water and PPMs
And BTW...Epsom salts...MgSO₄... (Magnesium) helps the plant absorb the other nutrients it needs
Improves Nutrient Uptake
Epsom salt contains magnesium, which is an essential nutrient that helps a plant perform some of its essential functions. One of these is that magnesium increases a plant's ability to absorb other nutrients, such as nitrogen and phosphorus, without which it would struggle to thrive.
How do you use Epsom salt as fertilizer?
To boost nutrient intake, mix two tablespoons of Epsom salts with one gallon of water and spray onto leaves, rather than onto the roots, for maximum absorption. Alternately, add the salts directly to the soil: 1 teaspoon of salts for every foot of plant height.
Well I have the old 4x8 with some new 400 watt HIDs and a veg closet
and, Thanks Hippie 
Don't over do it, it's still a salt, and can cause a lock out if used too often
I only use it by itself when watering, and then again, not too often, like maybe 4 or 5 times throughout their lives, and then only if they ask for it...I don't grow with science, probably not even with common sense but I can read my plants and know what they need and when they need it 
I feel the same way about my plants! I'm glad to know it's not just me!!! I say it all the time, idk how I just know they need somethingWell I have the old 4x8 with some new 400 watt HIDs and a veg closet
Don't over do it, it's still a salt, and can cause a lock out if used too often
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Wise words.Man all this talk of RO water and PPMs
