Grow five, same problem every grow

[Chuckeye]

Thanks, maybe down the road I'll try coco again but not for now. Coco Loco really through me off. Anything that requires watering often doesnt go well with a hidden grow cabinet. Ive seen feed charts that mention feeding coco three times a day in flower... LOL that aint gonna happen in a hidden cabinet.

I also like to be able to take long weekends Fly Fishing and need a medium that can go a few days without watering. Soil seems to be my only choice at this point....(or automatic watering systems that I may consider later)...

Here's an idea, get total control over your feed !

Use ProMix HP which is a soilless with 0 nutrients and is also ph buffered.

Then the only variable is what you feed...

And to keep that as simple as possible go with GH Maxi Series or Mega Crop one part.

And to eliminate watering issues go with 5 gallon SIP's, the GroBuckets work fine if you don't want to go the DIY route.

And watering from the top to a full reservoir will give you four or five days !

Cheers

 

[Phytoplankton]

Good recommendation as well. The path of least resistance will serve best. It’s why I chose Ocean Forest. It’s a good quality soil that is easily sourced for a good price by me. If there were something better/cheaper I’d choose that, I have very little brand loyalty It’s all about what’s going to serve my setup the best. I don’t live near a coast so a lot of the fancier amendments aren’t for me, I go with more classic stuff that is easily sourced. I don’t want to learn to love something just to have it taken away or cost more

I don’t want to feed my plants every day. I don’t want to monitor, or even measure liquids. I want to know if I go away for a week I won’t come back to a horror show. I chose soil with bigger (10 gallon plus) containers. Growing a plant in a 15 gallon container with a bag of ocean forest is just a matter of watering my plants every once in a while. The drawback is, I need extra space, I can’t grow many strains at once, I won’t achieve monstrous yields for my room, and it’s physical work dealing with that size container and plant. I also don’t have micro level control over what’s going on, but I’m okay with that.

Work with your environment and limiting factors the best you can OP. We’re not going anywhere and if you can’t tell, we love talking cannabis

In my area FFOF is the way to go, best bang for the buck! It was developed on the Ca. North coast, in Arcata, which is right in the middle of the “Emerald Triangle”. It was made specifically for cannabis. For many years I used the FF trio of nutes, with good results, but I tired of mixing, ph’ing flushing, so my current grow is with Geoflora, amended the soil, let it cook for 6 weeks and now at 5 weeks I haven’t had to add anything, except I’ll be adding Geoflora bloom nutes soon.

 

[Keffka]

Here's an idea, get total control over your feed !

Use ProMix HP which is a soilless with 0 nutrients and is also ph buffered.

Then the only variable is what you feed...

And to keep that as simple as possible go with GH Maxi Series or Mega Crop one part.

And to eliminate watering issues go with 5 gallon SIP's, the GroBuckets work fine if you don't want to go the DIY route.

And watering from the top to a full reservoir will give you four or five days !

Cheers

This is another good idea for a hidden grow cabinet. This route will allow you to use any variety of container size, while maxing out the yield, while allowing you to alleviate watering issues. A SIP will keep you from needing to water constantly, and will keep you from overwatering. If making your own SIP sounds like a pain they also sell them premade for a fair price.

There’s so many paths to accomplish what you want to do OP. That can be quite overwhelming especially if you’re not really familiar with why people choose their methods

If anyone else can share their method and why they chose it that’ll be very helpful for OP! It’s gotta be really daunting trying to pick a method these days, with so many available for so many situations

 

[Keffka]

In my area FFOF is the way to go, best bang for the buck! It was developed on the Ca. North coast, in Arcata, which is right in the middle of the “Emerald Triangle”. It was made specifically for cannabis. For many years I used the FF trio of nutes, with good results, but I tired of mixing, ph’ing flushing, so my current grow is with Geoflora, amended the soil, let it cook for 6 weeks and now at 5 weeks I haven’t had to add anything, except I’ll be adding Geoflora bloom nutes soon.

It’s a dependable product and company, which is more than can be said for quite a few different companies. Anyone coming out of the triangle will always at least pique my interest.

Geoflora is great too! I ran an auto and photo this summer with it and I was very impressed with its simplicity and efficacy. It’s the first thing I recommend to those interested in organic. It’s also a great stepping stone if you want to get into making your own soil mixes. You can really learn the rhythm of the plant with it well.

 

[Ancient Green]

Good info there @Keffka! Also while picking a method, take into account things like what characteristic your water has, what climate you're growing in, availability of soil/coco/nutes, etc. In my case I'd like to try coco, BUT, my water has a starting PPM of 1400 to 2400, making it totally unsuitable for coco/hydro, also I don't have an accessable drain for wastewater, and I don't want to install an R/O system (several neighbors have and they are constantly having membrane issues, plus they waste a lot of water).

Water, I started this grow buying bottled RO water. The PPM's measured at around 10 PPM's...Pretty dam pure.

Towards the flower stage and when my deficiency hit, I started to mix the RO water with tap 50/50. This brought the PPM's up to around 150 before adding nutrients. (hoping there is a little calcium/etc.. in the water.) I do let the tap water sit for around 48 hours before mixing with my RO water...

To the person that said PPM's arent needed, I'm not disagreeing at all ! When I get this figured out, I'll probably stop measuring obsessively, but for now its just something I'm using to "double check" myself with if that makes sense..

One thing that doesnt add up is following the Dynagrow charts, my feed PPM's dont match the charts. Mine were considerably lower than the Dynagrow charts. Using their tsp measurements, my numbers are off arond 150 PPM's...No idea why. Maybe its the PPM scale or something---- who knows.

 

[Ancient Green]

It’s a dependable product and company, which is more than can be said for quite a few different companies. Anyone coming out of the triangle will always at least pique my interest.

Geoflora is great too! I ran an auto and photo this summer with it and I was very impressed with its simplicity and efficacy. It’s the first thing I recommend to those interested in organic. It’s also a great stepping stone if you want to get into making your own soil mixes. You can really learn the rhythm of the plant with it well.

All of the nurseries in my area highly recommend AGAINST using this FFOF. I visited at least ten nurseries, spoke with many gardeners and none of them had good things to say about it.

I didnt listen and used it for my first grow anyway. It smelled like raw sewage when watered. I'm pretty sure the soil is great for others, but here on the east coast of the US, I'm not sure its the same formula others are getting. Happy Frog was great though, Ive used it 3 times...

I'm considering something a little more airy with really good drainage for my next grow, maybe Pro Mix (expensive though) or Happy Frog/ Light Warrior/ Perlite.. I could try FFOF again, but I'm a little nervous considering Ive used it before.

 

[Ancient Green]

It’s a dependable product and company, which is more than can be said for quite a few different companies. Anyone coming out of the triangle will always at least pique my interest.

Geoflora is great too! I ran an auto and photo this summer with it and I was very impressed with its simplicity and efficacy. It’s the first thing I recommend to those interested in organic. It’s also a great stepping stone if you want to get into making your own soil mixes. You can really learn the rhythm of the plant with it well.

Thanks, I'll check out Geoflora.. I was really hoping to continue with Dynagrow, but I have a feeling it is better in the hands of a more experienced grower.. I need something a little more "paint by numbers" and newbie friendly.

Any decent nutrient line with a good feed schedule would be helpful. Dynagrows feed charts are all very different, I have at least 3 of them (from Dynagrow) and around 5 more from growers. In fact, one of my charts uses double the nutrients of the others--directly from Dynagrow...

 

[Ancient Green]

The carnage---- Normally, I chop the burned leaves off when showing pics, but I'll swallow my pride and show the truth... How bad is this anyway?

And some good news, I am good to go with odor ! A recent tweak to my filter and fan has completely removed all odor...So, this plant will have 2-3 more weeks (or more) to go. I'm really hoping these skinny colas fatten up. Dam it feels good to relax and not worry about the stink.

You can see leaf tips down and up, either nutrient burn or starvation, thats my dilemma. It really looks like nutrient burn, but I think its a deficiency. Not sure if i should feed more or less.. I gave plain water last watering just in case. Buds still look healthy if I can keep the browning off them.

PH is holding nicely in both feed and runoff, right around 6.4. Runoff PPMs around 300 (if that means anything)..

Lights at 15 inches RH 45, 74 degrees

 

[Ancient Green]

Here's an idea, get total control over your feed !

Use ProMix HP which is a soilless with 0 nutrients and is also ph buffered.

Thanks ! Pro Mix HP is something Ive been considering, Ive heard great things about this soil. Its a shame its so expensive though. Anything that can take a watering to runoff without holding too much water would work well for me.

I still need to read up a bit more on SIP and GroBuckets.

Then the only variable is what you feed...

And to keep that as simple as possible go with GH Maxi Series or Mega Crop one part.

And to eliminate watering issues go with 5 gallon SIP's, the GroBuckets work fine if you don't want to go the DIY route.

And watering from the top to a full reservoir will give you four or five days !

Cheers

 

[Chuckeye]

Thanks ! Pro Mix HP is something Ive been considering, Ive heard great things about this soil. Its a shame its so expensive though. Anything that can take a watering to runoff without holding too much water would work well for me.

I still need to read up a bit more on SIP and GroBuckets.

Where are you ?

On the Cdn prairies ProMix HP is ~$40 a bale.

A five gallon pail/bag works out to about $5.

And the GroBuckets are $36 for 3....

Light proof 5 gallon pails are about $7...

Cheers

 

[Keffka]

That’s interesting about FFOF being trash talked and you getting a bag of sewage. It makes me wonder if the nurseries are intentionally storing it improperly to make other products (with better profits or personal relationships) more appealing. Every grow shop around here has plenty of it brand new, healthy, and recommends it. Just shows how vastly different our experiences can be in the same country

Closer your way, Coast Of Maine is a good company and quality product. It’s more expensive than Fox Farms but cheaper than Gaia Green. They have a water only super soil, or you can buy their individual amendments and peat/compost and build your own. I’ve also used Coast of Maine stuff and it’s very high quality, but is a bit costlier for me.

What were the nurseries recommending you use?

 

[Ancient Green]

That’s interesting about FFOF being trash talked and you getting a bag of sewage. It makes me wonder if the nurseries are intentionally storing it improperly to make other products (with better profits or personal relationships) more appealing. Every grow shop around here has plenty of it brand new, healthy, and recommends it. Just shows how vastly different our experiences can be in the same country

Closer your way, Coast Of Maine is a good company and quality product. It’s more expensive than Fox Farms but cheaper than Gaia Green. They have a water only super soil, or you can buy their individual amendments and peat/compost and build your own. I’ve also used Coast of Maine stuff and it’s very high quality, but is a bit costlier for me.

What were the nurseries recommending you use?

One nursery recommended Happy Frog, and Coast of Maine Stonington blend. My hydro store also recommended Happy Frog, Pro Mix HP. or a pure coco product if I choose to go coco. Most of the other nurseries I went to were also advised me to stay away from FFOF you'd be surprised how many love Happy Frog..

I am into this hobby so deeply, that I've made friends with many people at these nurseries. I was invited to come to a meeting with some folks from a company called Great Lakes Soil as well. This soil is interesting, its supposed to get you all the way to harvest organically without need for nutrients..Problem is, you need to use a lot of it for it to work. (7-10 gallons minimum)

I've researched Coast of Maine quite a bit as well. The only complaints Ive heard about this is that it can get a little muddy if watered heavy. It also comes pre loaded with Fungus Gnats.. (same with Happy Frog)... Every bag of FF soil Ive purchased has fungus gnats. Not a problem, I boil and bake my soil before use. I also use BTI if I see a single fly in my soil.

So, I'm not against trying FFOF again, but I think think on the East Coast of the US, something bad is happening to that soil. You should see all the sticks and twigs that come in a bag of it here. Coast of Maine also has my interest, but its odd that I dont see it mentioned often on forums.

I know I type too much, but heres a quick story. I was in line at our big super store nursery and the woman behind me had a bag of FFOF... I started chatting with her and told her about my bad experience using it. Others in line said the same thing, and a nursery worker came over and took her to show other soils. She wound up buying Happy Frog and was very appreciative of the advice we all gave her.

 

[Ancient Green]

Where are you ?

On the Cdn prairies ProMix HP is ~$40 a bale.

A five gallon pail/bag works out to about $5.

And the GroBuckets are $36 for 3....

Light proof 5 gallon pails are about $7...

Cheers

East Coast of the US, Wash DC area.

 

[013]

don’t have a horse in this race but circling back to that other thing about nitrogen and granted it doesn’t mention nitrogen directly rather uses the term soil fertility…

here’s the link Paper from NIH

all this is way over my head but first sentence of this paragraph caught my eye

As observed for cannabinoids, terpenoid production increases with light exposure, but decreases with soil fertility (Langenheim, 1994), and this is supported by the glasshouse experience that demonstrates higher yields if plants experience relative nitrogen lack just prior to harvest (Potter, 2004), favouring floral over foliar growth. EO composition is much more genetically than environmentally determined, however (Franz and Novak, 2010), and while cannabis is allogamous and normally requires repeat selective breeding for maintenance of quality, this problem may be practically circumvented by vegetative propagation of high-performance plants under controlled environmental conditions (light, heat and humidity) (Potter, 2009), and such techniques have proven to provide notable consistency to tight tolerances as Good Manufacturing Practice for any pharmaceutical would require (Fischedick et al., 2010).


terpenoid production increases with light exposure, but decreases with soil fertility (Langenheim, 1994)

real head scratcher huh?

 

[Roy Growin]

As observed for cannabinoids, terpenoid production increases with light exposure, but decreases with soil fertility (Langenheim, 1994), and this is supported by the glasshouse experience that demonstrates higher yields if plants experience relative nitrogen lack just prior to harvest (Potter, 2004), favouring floral over foliar growth.

Perhaps this is why some growers taper off the feed towards the end, eventually using just plain water?

 

[Ancient Green]

don’t have a horse in this race but circling back to that other thing about nitrogen and granted it doesn’t mention nitrogen directly rather uses the term soil fertility…

here’s the link Paper from NIH

all this is way over my head but first sentence of this paragraph caught my eye

As observed for cannabinoids, terpenoid production increases with light exposure, but decreases with soil fertility (Langenheim, 1994), and this is supported by the glasshouse experience that demonstrates higher yields if plants experience relative nitrogen lack just prior to harvest (Potter, 2004), favouring floral over foliar growth. EO composition is much more genetically than environmentally determined, however (Franz and Novak, 2010), and while cannabis is allogamous and normally requires repeat selective breeding for maintenance of quality, this problem may be practically circumvented by vegetative propagation of high-performance plants under controlled environmental conditions (light, heat and humidity) (Potter, 2009), and such techniques have proven to provide notable consistency to tight tolerances as Good Manufacturing Practice for any pharmaceutical would require (Fischedick et al., 2010).


terpenoid production increases with light exposure, but decreases with soil fertility (Langenheim, 1994)

real head scratcher huh?

Good read, thanks.. Dam, it really seems like I'm bouncing back and forth with so many opposing viewpoints. This one is very interesting though. Looking at my feedcharts, I can see that the recommended amount of feed decreases late flower. This supports the viewpoint above. My feedcharts also stop giving N completely towards the end. Interesting.

Now I have no idea which way to go ! thanks.... (joking of course)

So now you see why I'm in the middle.... I'm feeding half veg and half bloom because, well, there seems to be two schools here.

 

[Ancient Green]

Some thoughts or viewpoints from a total and complete newb.

1. I am not against bloom nutrients and bloom boosters. There are countless articles and feedcharts as well as successful growers, both commercial and home, that have great success using bloom nutrients. Ive observed grows that turned out very well using high levels of bloom.

2. I have also read many articles and observed quite a few grows that used only Veg nutrients the entire grow. If you look at something like Foliage Pro, 3-1-2, there seems to be a decent amount of P and K in there with a higher doseage of N. What I'm still not really sure about is, how much the plant really needs. I'd like to think this ratio covers all the plants needs.

So here I hover in newbie limbo, favoring the bloom camp. Its easier to use feedcharts as a guideline when using bloom as most do recommend it. (yes, many recommend a lot of things to increase company profit, not to help growers, I am aware of this as well)

 

[bluter]

Good read, thanks.. Dam, it really seems like I'm bouncing back and forth with so many opposing viewpoints.

everyone will find a media and grow style that works for them. it's not a one size fits all.

there's a few tweaks you could probably try, but small cab grows are tough, and i frankly think you're doing ok. just keep it fed and ph'd correct and you'll finish golden. you're not far off.

 

[bluter]

So here I hover in newbie limbo, favoring the bloom camp. Its easier to use feedcharts as a guideline when using bloom as most do recommend it. (yes, many recommend a lot of things to increase company profit, not to help growers, I am aware of this as well)

most nute charts don't factor pk boosters all that well. a bunch depends on the base nutes. media and environment also play a large part.

a lot of it is left to the grower once you stray from the base nutes alone. even on base nutes alone i would tweak the feed ratios to my liking. if you can't finish decent on base nutes alone the line is not worth it.

knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your chosen nute line and reading the plants is key.

 

[Ancient Green]

everyone will find a media and grow style that works for them. it's not a one size fits all.

there's a few tweaks you could probably try, but small cab grows are tough, and i frankly think you're doing ok. just keep it fed and ph'd correct and you'll finish golden. you're not far off.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm thinking this thread has run its course by now. I'm hoping to find some of you for my next grow though, I'd love to start from scratch with someone looking over my shoulder.

I have a lot to consider, soil, grow methods, etc.. There have been plenty of the great recommendations here... Now I'm off to read up more on SIP, GrowBuckets, etc.... So many choices !

I'll post a grow journal for my plant week by week at the end of my grow if anyone is curious to see how this turns out. Also, I'm not sure if there is a way to friend people here, but many of you have been really amazing and I'd love to stay in touch.