Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization

Stilletto

Well-Known Member
I hope to spark some interesting debates on this subject.

I grow pot for a few reasons. First, I love the hobby, nurturing a plant from seed to fruit is a love of nature, a love of life itself. Secondly, I enjoy smoking pot. I smoked pot long before I realized that it was in the better intrests of my health. When I finally realized that it was relieving many of the symptoms of age I enjoyed it even more. I expect to smoke/use pot until I am old, like taking vitamins. The third reason is to remove myself from the seedy underworld. Too many things can go wrong when you are buying pot from some teenager in an alley somewhere. I am not saying that I did this, but as fewer of my friends smoked, I found it nessisary to find "new friends" to aquire my herb and many times these are the same people I would not want to associate with otherwise.

So I began many years ago to supply my own medicine by growing.

I have never sold pot and never will.

I normally grow just enough for my wife and I as well as to make sure that when friends come over there is plenty to share. If I find that I have a few extra ounces that I know won't be needed I generally just give them to my close friends. I give it away because I want to save them the hassle of the seedy underworld; god forbid a friend should get hurt in a bad situation because I was to greedy to help. If I am low I still offer a bit to help out, it's the least I can do, but I will not take money in return.

I am not wealthy; I would have a hard time affording my medication if I had to go to a dealer to aquire it. So the fact that my hobby "saves" me money is a bonus.

Greed is a weakness of character, and temptation tests that character.

Here is a breakdown of the past, present and future as the movement to legalize/decriminalize moves forward, and the way greed will destroy it as it happens.

The Past: We all know the history of prohibition and how it evolved as a tool for political motives and control. In the 60's the issue was so heated it led to revolt, but fell short of revolution. With it becoming part of mainstream culture such as "Cheech and Chong", it was veiwed with more acceptance by the general public but the government held fast to it's illegality.

In the 80's with the emergence of crack and cocaine, the government began "The War on Drugs" and marijuana got thrown into the mix with the "hard" drugs and became the symbol for a war to save the country's youth who were once again destroying the fabric of society. During these troubled times it seemed that defeat was imminent, but our passion for marijuana became the symbol for freedom of choice and human rights and did not yeild to onslaught brought forth by the government. We were winning the war, although we were not aware of that yet. What most failed to realize was that the govenment was still making more profit from fighting a losing war that they would by giving up. Thier greed was overshadowing thier common sense and the movement was stalemated for 20 years.

The present (1995-now): Head shops started opening up, the internet brought the community together, Bill Clinton didn't inhale, marijuana started making some positive headlines in the media and once again the general population seemed open to discuss marijuana and it's legality. The govenment was involved in many wars by this point and could not continue to spend huge resources on the drug war. The oil profits were astonomical and it found that if they locked up all the pot users they would have a smaller number of available soldiers to fight the wars. One soldier is more profitable that one inmate in a privatized prison. But instead of losing the war, they gave the individual states the ability to choose the laws for themselves. We had won.
Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

The people that were most influential in progressing the legalization movement were the sick people. The people with cancer and AIDS, the doctors that saw the benefits of marijuana, the true soldiers were the people who's lives were given to the cause, those same people would be disgraced at what they would see today. We had won the war, on principals of humanity, compassion, and kindness to our fellow man. We marched togeather in solidarity of the cause and said that money was not the issue, it was all about helping those in need.
Now what I see is greed, greed wrapped in sheep's clothing protesting for the rights of the sick and huddled masses while stepping on thier fellow man for a quick buck. I am not talking solely about the big dispensorys making millions, or the decietful doctors writing prescriptions for a "fee", but I am talking about everyone that grows more that they need just so they can sell some for some extra cash. These people were the ones that made the war such a hard one to win as even public opinion wavers when some teenager is pulling in a million a year while his recklessnes burns his house down. Getting back to those big dispensories, they claim that they would be happy to pay taxes on it and it would make a big profit for the government. This all sounds too familiar, like when big pharmacutical companies give "campain contributions" to politicians. "Let us pay your tax so we can both make huge profits."

We have reached a point in this long standing war on drugs where we could realistically decriminalize marijuana and live happily ever after. This will not happen, we are about to lose this war because of greed and corruption. As far as I am concerened, we have already lost.

The future: Legalization will happen, and when it does, people who fought the war will regret ever fighting for it in the first place. We will watch as greed destroys the hobby that we once loved.

The movement has now gone so far that it can never move backwards. They will never shut down every dispensory or reverse every medical law. There is only one direction it can travel and that is forward, and the government knows this. First we will see more pro-med-pot laws passed, by then there will be more dispensories, more grow ops, and more profits. Once the nation as a whole passes a federal bill allowing the sale and production of marijuana as a medical perscription, you will see the end of the war and we will have lost.
Why you ask? Profits and greed.

Big pharmaceutical companies will begin buying up dispensaries, they will use thier political power and wealth to control the market. They will see the huge profits and will stop at nothing to get them. They will appeal the gov't to class it as a pharmacutical so that home-growers can no longer produce it. You can't make your own aspirin or morphine at home and you will not be able to grow pot at home either. The cost will skyrocket for users, like most perscription drugs that cost pennies to make. profits over compassion. Recreational users will now be treated like drug addicts and the recreational users will be forced so far underground that they will be treated like meth addicts. The gov't will crack down on "unauthorized" grow ops harder than ever because the big pharmacutical companies will pay them to do so. It is a never ending cycle of greed and control. As long as there is a profit in marijuana it will never be out of the control of the gov't, and they dont like competition.

In summary, I am not a pessimist, I have fought in the drug war for 30 years and hope one day to see a victory, but that will only come if greedy people stop acting like the gov't does and remember that compassion will be the road to victory, not profits. If you sell pot you are only making this war harder. If we all gave it away there would be no profits at all and the gov't would stop caring about it and just decriminalize it. Greed makes us all look bad.

Jonny Stilletto
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

Big pharmaceutical companies will begin buying up dispensaries, they will use thier political power and wealth to control the market. They will see the huge profits and will stop at nothing to get them. They will appeal the gov't to class it as a pharmacutical so that home-growers can no longer produce it. You can't make your own aspirin or morphine at home and you will not be able to grow pot at home either. The cost will skyrocket for users, like most perscription drugs that cost pennies to make. profits over compassion. Recreational users will now be treated like drug addicts and the recreational users will be forced so far underground that they will be treated like meth addicts. The gov't will crack down on "unauthorized" grow ops harder than ever because the big pharmacutical companies will pay them to do so. It is a never ending cycle of greed and control. As long as there is a profit in marijuana it will never be out of the control of the gov't, and they dont like competition.

As a whole, what you describe as the "aftermath" of legalization is only the current state of affairs in most of the nation.

I don't see the logic in believing nationwide legalization leads to more complex and convoluted laws that are even more difficult to enforce.

Furthermore, there is no profit for big drug companies in Cannabis unless you, the consumer, choose to pay for it. :peace:
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

I don't agree with you at all. I see everything moving forward as possitive. If a company can produce a marijuana product that other people want and make a profit. That is a good thing. There will always be room for the small mom and pop growers. Look at the micro beer and organic companies!!!
Can you imagine the new strains and different uses that will be discovered. Be possitive man!! The future is bright for everyone that loves this beautiful herb!
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

Thank you guys for your opinions so far, I had hoped for some debate. :)

I will admit I was feeling a little pessimistic when I wrote this, and it does show.

I don't see the logic in believing nationwide legalization leads to more complex and convoluted laws that are even more difficult to enforce.
I agree that logicly this would be silly, you are right, but I have yet to see any logic being used by the gov't in the current system and I doubt that will change. The laws now are convoluted and difficult to enforce, but they make a profit for prisons and lobbyists so I doubt that those profits will just be forfited, they will still lock as many people up, just for different reasons.

Furthermore, there is no profit for big drug companies in Cannabis unless you, the consumer, choose to pay for it.
Walmart.... need I say more.


I don't agree with you at all. I see everything moving forward as possitive.
I sure hope so. The optimist in me agrees with you, the pessimist in me knows that greed is never to be underestimated.

If a company can produce a marijuana product that other people want and make a profit. That is a good thing.
There is that word again, "profit". I have yet to see one example of capitalism being beneficial to the human race.

There will always be room for the small mom and pop growers. Look at the micro beer and organic companies!!!
This is what I hope for, free and open ability for everyone to grow, but like a micro brewery you must apply for a licence, pay regulation fees, have your buisness inspected, meet gov't regulations, etc, etc. and all of a sudden mom and pop realize it is more of a hassle to grow than it is to just buy from a larger company. Do you make your own beer? Why not?

Do not get me wrong, I hope and pray for the same future we all do but we need to stop "begging" the gov't to legalize, control and tax marijuana. I want to see pot treated like parsley not tobacco.

Thank you for the opinions so far guys :)

Jonny
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

You do not need a license to brew your own beer at home. Just if you wish to start selling it, like any other business.

I do not think you will be lucky enough to see it treated like parsley. I would be more than happy to see it treated like booze or cigarettes. That is not where I want it but, I would be OK with that at least as a start.

Nothing is wrong with capitalism as long as it is regulated to benefit "we the people" and "the common good". What is wrong with it in the USA is the "laissez-faire" version currently used in the USA, it promotes greed, monopolies and corruption... just like what is going on now.

I do not know about anybody else my age (50 ish) but the USA today is not the USA I grew up in. I am not talking about social activities but how far corporatism and bribery of our elected officials (read campaign donations, lobbyists) have gotten out of hand.
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

Great post and most would, could come true-but and its a big butt! People can make their own. Law of supply an demand, if its not there, people will go somewhere else for the price they want. It may be cheaper for a big company to make WeedAgentOrange but if its not at a price they want or quaility then puff!
On the other hand, I, like you-love to grow cause its also fun, relaxing to watch my little babies grow to monsters with that sweet, sticky aroma (can u smell it now) which 50% or more of those who might buy at a low price won't for this reason.
Can't quote latin, read the Quran or even spell to good, but I'll leave you with something the Beasty Boys once said, "Everyone wants to hold the remote control."
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

...I agree that logicly this would be silly, you are right, but I have yet to see any logic being used by the gov't in the current system and I doubt that will change.

Currently there is an interesting paradox in this country. Local and state laws that decriminalize and legalize Cannabis for medicinal purpose in spite of directly conflicting with Federal law, which is technically superlative.

The people (through voting) are deciding what law is best for their own locality. I'd say we're trending towards logic, not away from it.

The laws now are convoluted and difficult to enforce, but they make a profit for prisons and lobbyists so I doubt that those profits will just be forfited, they will still lock as many people up, just for different reasons.

You are somehow suggesting that legalization would in turn lead to more laws against the individual. I argue why would the government eliminate an outright ban on possession, sale, and manufacture of a substance (a ban that is perfectly adequate for it's intended goal) and institute new measures that are contrived and even more difficult to enforce?

Despite what you think the war on Cannabis makes, it also costs a good deal to wage as well. Legalization would also drive out organized crime, as a legal product that anyone can grow it would not be profitable (reference alcohol prohibition).

Walmart.... need I say more.

... And if you refuse to pay for it and instead grow your own you are an outlaw. That is an old hat by now my friend.

There is that word again, "profit". I have yet to see one example of capitalism being beneficial to the human race.

Capitalism is a balance of give and take. Those with goods are free to charge any price. Yet the potential consumer of those goods has the right to examine them in all aspects. Price undoubtedly comprises most of the equation. However, quality, speed of delivery, environmental impact, political and economic concerns are only a few other aspects that are seriously considered. The consumer has the right to make a decision based on any and all aspects they see fit and then make a purchase or not.

All human interaction boils down to only two criteria, reason and force. Capitalism is a "meeting of the minds", a peaceful reasoning.

All this considered and within the context of your argument, do you purchase the cheaper commercial product from Wal-mart or do you choose to grow your own? Simply put, are your ideals stronger then your wallet?

Only in the land of the free could we continue to actively, and dare I say openly, move forward with the goal of nationwide legalization. In other countries, the death penalty is not at all uncommon for the most minor infractions.

"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" :peace:
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

i think its plain as day to see that if the govmt gives up and calls it a medicine we will not be legally allowed to grow our own, we will only be allowed to grow our own at home legally if it is treated like alcohol and tobacco
after living under this govmt for 40 years i can plainly see thats the way it'll be
 
Re: Greed: Why it will destroy our hope of legalization.

i think its plain as day to see that if the govmt gives up and calls it a medicine we will not be legally allowed to grow our own, we will only be allowed to grow our own at home legally if it is treated like alcohol and tobacco
after living under this govmt for 40 years i can plainly see thats the way it'll be

Again, it is already illegal in most of the country to grow your own. How is it logical to conclude that legalization for all is a step backwards?

Remember nationwide legalization means for all purposes and all people, not just medicinal use for those with a license. We are not necessarily discussing reclassifying it as "medicine" and controlling it as such.

Furthermore, the Government operates on tax revenue. Given this fact there is a very good chance that under legalization home growing would be entirely permissible under a certain amount and over a certain amount (for instance, amounts that could be construed as to effect interstate commerce) would be taxed. :peace:
 
Great responses and opinions so far guys. :)
I would never say that legalization is a step backwards. Any movement forwards is possitive.
I will also conceed that having marijuana become a "phamacutical" is unlikely but IF it was a way for the government to profit and control it, it wouldn't suprise me.
I will also agree that de-criminalizing/leagalizing it would mean that IF someone like myself were to grow at home there would be no law against it... BUT...
I can't see how greed would not ruin it. You would get many people still seeing a profit in it and loading up barns, sheds, and basements with it. Poor set up and electrical could, and probably would result in negative press. There could not be a senario where public saftey is compromised, therfore it would need regulations. Those regulations would be outlined as by-laws, those bylaws would then need to be enforced. But how? and by who? and to what end?
On the other hand, if it were legalized as tobbacco and alcohol, that would be fine, but most robberies of stores currently involve stealing of cigarettes and alcohol aside from cash from the registers. This is a mute point but goes to show that greed will inherently lead to violence. Now we as responsible citizens need to consider these factors as I would hope the gov't does. So once again the gov't will need to regulate it's production and distrabution in order to protect the public.
De-criminalization is the answer, no laws regurding marijuana at all. Just like parsley, carrots, or roses. No regulation of "industry".
My original point stands, GREED is what is destroying the culture. Take away all profits to companies and gov't and neither would care about it. I do not have all the answers or solutions, I just think alot of people cry leagalization without knowing how to attain it or what it's implementation would mean to them.
Keep the comments and opinions coming, open debat and communication within the culture itself is what will help get the answers to these questions.
I am not right, this is just my opinion. :)

Jonny
 
...I would never say that legalization is a step backwards...I will also conceed that having marijuana become a "phamacutical" is unlikely but IF it was a way for the government to profit and control it, it wouldn't suprise me...

In your first post, that is all exactly what you appeared to believe.

BUT... I can't see how greed would not ruin it. You would get many people still seeing a profit in it and loading up barns, sheds, and basements with it.

Why is one loading barns and sheds full of something that is available everywhere and easily produced on an individual level? Under legalization, it has essentially no monetary value, and is certainly not worth storing large quantities of or transporting around in a clandestine manner.

Poor set up and electrical could, and probably would result in negative press. There could not be a senario where public saftey is compromised, therfore it would need regulations. Those regulations would be outlined as by-laws, those bylaws would then need to be enforced. But how? and by who? and to what end?

Poor set-ups are already a reality. Usually those with no concern for safety in the conditions or methods they use are directly related to growing for maximum profit alone. For example, most don't steal electricity either, but criminals growing for profit typically will.

On the other hand, if it were legalized as tobbacco and alcohol, that would be fine, but most robberies of stores currently involve stealing of cigarettes and alcohol aside from cash from the registers.

Criminals can steal anything. They will steal jewelry or a car stereo too. I don't see how that has any bearing.

Now we as responsible citizens need to consider these factors as I would hope the gov't does. So once again the gov't will need to regulate it's production and distrabution in order to protect the public.

De-criminalization is the answer, no laws regurding marijuana at all. Just like parsley, carrots, or roses. No regulation of "industry".

Your now holding two opposing points of view. Either there is regulation or there is not regulation.

Take away all profits to companies and gov't and neither would care about it.

Exactly. Something that grows from a seed is entirely free. Making it illegal is the only thing that allows it to hold any monetary value. :peace:
 
i myself firmly believe that if its considered medicine that there will be stricter laws/penalties put in place for recreational growers and recreational consumers who are caught-if its considered an over 18/21 type thing like alcohol and cigs than i think that eventually if not immediatly outrageous fees will be charged for growing permits to have small home grows, fees so large that itll be just stupid to even attempt to grow your own legally unless the product at the new superchainstore "weedmart" just isnt any good!!- i have been wrong b4 and can very possibly wrong about this also, but in my mind thats what i see happening--it's kinda like applying my family curse to legalization that being only bad things happen to my family and even when something good happens to us somthing else almost immediatly happens to change it into a bad situation instead of good-- i want legal weed!! everywhere i go, i want to see huge plants growing, the smell in the air everywhere, and everytowns little farmers markets to be lined up with bushels of buds for sale-and the local 5 and dime stores will have a whole new meaning-but unfortunatly i'm almost certain it's never gonna happen at least without a very bloody revolution--although there is a planned legalization protest march in dc on 4/20/11 at 10am gathering time,the march starts at 11am
overgrowthegovt.com is the website where you can find all the details about the protest
and if we are very very lucky and loud that day just maybe we can make it happen,as other countries are conquering way bigger protest goals at this very moment.

in all reality we must realize that our govmt makes way to much cash off the illegality of weed to ever seriously consider legalization of it without being forced to do so!!!! and again this is my thoughts on the subject and i take no offense to any else having differant ideas about it. however i think that if you clear your mind and look at whats gone on with the weed situation so far in this country and use a little common sense when mulling it over i am almost certain that n e 1 would have impressions that are close to what mine are--but again i can be and hope that i am wrong!!!!
 
Nice responses RooRman! Very nicely laid out :)

I made the first post to initiate debate, not to take say I was right. I took a pessimistic stance to initiate good rebuttal and you as well as others have provided that. If we all agreed about everything it would be a short post. :)
I won't reply to each of your points as they are all good and I do not argue any of them.
You and I probably share a simalar veiwpoint, I just like to offer opinions on many veiwpoints to get other peoples opinions.

I believe greed is destroying the entire world, but on a pot forum I will discuss greed in relation to that subject.
When the movement progresses forward WE need to be the ones with the answers to these discusions because WE are the experts in the field. If we let suits in gov't answer these questions we will not get the right answers as they are not experts in the field.

Exactly. Something that grows from a seed is entirely free. Making it illegal is the only thing that allows it to hold any monetary value.
This is the best statement ever. Romove the value and you remove the influence of greed. Make it like alcohol or tobacco and it will continue to have a value and be controled for the profit. Not that I would say that legalization is a bad thing, heck it's alot better than what we have now, but it's still a long way from freedom.

Jonny
 
Capitalism is a "meeting of the minds", a peaceful reasoning.
That is so naive of a thought i think I will address it.
Capitalism is simply the law maximising profit. It has nothing to do with social issues or whether something is ethical or not. Its strictly about money in its many forms.
Capitalism is pay the least possible amount for raw materials, pay the least possible amount for labor, and do this in an area of the planet that has the least amount of government regulation and taxes.
Thats all capitalism is. And as the article correctly points out, eventually corporations will control cannabis. It will still be treated like any other drug, be it alcohol or morphine. You will not be allowed to grow it, you will not be allowed to profit off it unless you join the club. So following the capitalist rule. The quality will go down, there will be proprietary additives used to enhance the flavor or to maybe make it addicting and you will not be allowed to know what those substances are.
The only way to win our war is to remove Cannabis and every other natural grown plant from any regulations, state or federal. If we want our children and grandchildren to enjoy this wonderful plant when they get older and safely the only answer will be to remove all government regulations.
 
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Capitalism will enhance the cannibis product. There will be so many different uses and enhancements that Capitalism will offer because of the Profit incentive. Capitalism will let the new cannabis companies to hire people to work and will help our struggling economy!!!. Profit and Capitolism are GOOD!!! If you don't like to buy Capitalist medicine you can continue to grow your own.
 
Below is the real definition of Capitolism.

Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for a private profit; decisions regarding supply, demand, price, distribution, and investments are made by private actors in the free market; profit is sent to owners who invest in businesses, and wages are paid to workers employed by businesses and companies.

Capitolism will enhance our medicine. With the free market and profit incentive, companies will find new enhancements and different uses. In the free market, any product that is up to par. The company must either improve the product or go out of business. If what you say is true that people will not be allowed to grow at home. What is the difference to what most of us deal with now? I will continue to grow my own no matter what happens. I find it to be a very enjoyable rewarding hobby.
 
In response to you folks that think that capitalism is harmless, I suggest you do a little research, I have studied it for years, it can only lead to disaster. The natural progression will lead to Plutocracy. If you do not know what that word means then you are not educated enough to defend capitalism.

Jonny
 
I agree with your post. It's all about the money with most people. Your arguement is good for most things in this life not just marijuana.
 
In response to you folks that think that capitalism is harmless, I suggest you do a little research, I have studied it for years, it can only lead to disaster. The natural progression will lead to Plutocracy. If you do not know what that word means then you are not educated enough to defend capitalism.

Jonny
Plutocracy is rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth. The combination of both plutocracy and oligarchy is called

If a person has a business and it is successful. The business will hire workers and invest its profits. This is power. The successful business deserves this power from giving the public a product it wants. There is nothing wrong with this.

I still think Capitolism will be great for our product. I cannot wait till I can go to the store and buy cannabis gum. Or be able to buy a cannabis patch. Or any other use some Capitolist inventor will come up with. All the different new growing techniques that will come about because of the wonderful ways Capitolism works.
:smokin:
 
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