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Rascio said:
I would think that the dangerous ones are the ones that hermie when conditions are ideal. When they hermie under stress, seems like a healthy trait. When they hermie without stress, maybe those are the traits you don't want to pass on.

Aren't the wild SE Asian strains supposed to be more prone to hermaphroditism? Maybe just another thing to love and hate about wild sativa strains.
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Hmmm interesting reading this smoking an OG Kush bud that came from hermied clone, one of the strongest flowers I've approached :tokin: And in theory a feminized seed should produce worse quality smoke as DJ Short says. And then everybody indeed praises SA sativas like Thai which are known to be the strain most prone to hermaphroditism :hmmmm::lot-o-toke:

It's a very controversial subject on the cannabis scene indeed and I cannot really say much cause I never grew hermie in my life!
 
Ah, good discussion! :cheesygrinsmiley:

I don't fully understand the aversion to feminized seed either. I get the whole purist thing - diminished gene pool, etc - but I don't really get how the genetics are diminished. Ordinarily, you have a father and mother with their own individual genes, both dominant and recessive. The offspring express the dominant genes and carry-on the recessives. In a feminized seed, you only get the genetics of the mother's line. So? Am I looking for a pheno from a father? Why? What's wrong with the grandfather? A fem seed will still produce phenos from its male line. Or I can use a fem pollen from another strain if I want those genetics . So the genetics are already narrowed down in a fem strain. Isn't that an advantage, too?

The other complaint is that feminized seeds prevent breeding. Um ... no ... nope, they sure don't. It's relatively easy to get pollen from a fem.

It seems to me that fem seeds still contain any genetics a breeder wants to extract from them. I will grant that it takes extra effort and time to hermie a fem for its pollen, but you also have fewer traits to breed out, so a project can be more focused.

So ... why screw with males? You have to get pretty far into the esoterics of breeding before a genuine male plant is necessary.
 
Graytail said:
Ah, good discussion! :cheesygrinsmiley:

I don't fully understand the aversion to feminized seed either. I get the whole purist thing - diminished gene pool, etc - but I don't really get how the genetics are diminished. Ordinarily, you have a father and mother with their own individual genes, both dominant and recessive. The offspring express the dominant genes and carry-on the recessives. In a feminized seed, you only get the genetics of the mother's line. So? Am I looking for a pheno from a father? Why? What's wrong with the grandfather? A fem seed will still produce phenos from its male line. Or I can use a fem pollen from another strain if I want those genetics . So the genetics are already narrowed down in a fem strain. Isn't that an advantage, too?

The other complaint is that feminized seeds prevent breeding. Um ... no ... nope, they sure don't. It's relatively easy to get pollen from a fem.

It seems to me that fem seeds still contain any genetics a breeder wants to extract from them. I will grant that it takes extra effort and time to hermie a fem for its pollen, but you also have fewer traits to breed out, so a project can be more focused.

So ... why screw with males? You have to get pretty far into the esoterics of breeding before a genuine male plant is necessary.
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we don't need no STINK'N males!!!??
..gulp..
 
You only want just the one male in a harem. :laughtwo: Dis guy! :thumb:
 
Yeah in fact you need them a lot to breed healthy new exciting strains, but on an average grower's level it's just out of the picture. It all matters when it matters :tokin:
 
I dont know enough about breeding to contribute much, but I was always under the impression that the only downside was hermies and that to breed you would have to force hermie.

Do female seeds really only have traits of the mother? I thought all children all would have trait from both parents.
 
It depends how pollination is done, if it's a self-pollination by herming or if it's pollinating a regular mother with another female reversed to male for stability.
 
conradino23 said:
It depends how pollination is done, if it's a self-pollination by herming or if it's pollinating a regular mother with another female reversed to male for stability.
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Right. Are there many strains that are self pollinated? Is that what banks mean when they say a strain was "selfed?" I think that's what they call it.
 
ClosedCircuit said:
Right. Are there many strains that are self pollinated? Is that what banks mean when they say a strain was "selfed?" I think that's what they call it.
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That's exactly what they mean, although it wasn't necessarily a fem - you can self a regular, too. The first generation seeds are referred to as S1, and are usually very stable, unlike F1s which are first generation normal crosses and usually throw all sorts of phenos.

I suppose some kinds of cannabis are probably better at self pollinating. The pollen has to come soon enough for the seeds to mature, so it has to happen 3-4 weeks before harvest, which is unusual. You usually get hermies at the end of bloom - too late for good seeds. So the plant has to produce some nanners and then stop, which is also unusual.

If you don't care about the harvest from the plant you want to S1 it's easier to go ahead and stress it. If it goes full hermie, no loss.
 
Wow! I listen to you guys talk about this, and I know someday it'll make sense to me, but right now you sound like you're speaking some crazy alien terminology. Makes my head spin sometimes. :laughtwo:
 
Forgot to ask earlier when you were talking about it, but White Panther...would you say its pretty evenly 50/50 indica sativa or more sativa leaning? From your description it sounds more like a sativa. For the record I've been surfing your cup winner thread and was really impressed with the white panther and Jamaican Dream especially.
 
ClosedCircuit said:
Forgot to ask earlier when you were talking about it, but White Panther...would you say its pretty evenly 50/50 indica sativa or more sativa leaning? From your description it sounds more like a sativa. For the record I've been surfing your cup winner thread and was really impressed with the white panther and Jamaican Dream especially.
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Both GT and myself have grown the White Panther. I pulled about half a pound from two plants in the greenhouse last summer. I would say that it leans more to the sativa side of the spectrum. It's easy to grow. I also grew two mostly indoors. It's a great "all-arounder." GT is a sativa guy and I prefer indica traits because I'm a hyper person in general. I find the high to be clear headed without too much body stone and relaxing at the same time. Everyone I've shared it with has liked it.

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PeeJay said:
Both GT and myself have grown the White Panther. I pulled about half a pound from two plants in the greenhouse last summer. I would say that it leans more to the sativa side of the spectrum. It's easy to grow. I also grew two mostly indoors. It's a great "all-arounder." GT is a sativa guy and I prefer indica traits because I'm a hyper person in general. I find the high to be clear headed without too much body stone and relaxing at the same time. Everyone I've shared it with has liked it.

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Right on. I appreciate it.

I'm finding that alot of strains that show both sides can provide a "manic" high where you feel restless and lethargic at the same time - possessing neither the soft stone of a nice indica or clear motivational high of a sativa. Its good to know WP isn't like that. I'll have to keep it up my sleeve for a future grow.
 
ClosedCircuit said:
Forgot to ask earlier when you were talking about it, but White Panther...would you say its pretty evenly 50/50 indica sativa or more sativa leaning? From your description it sounds more like a sativa. For the record I've been surfing your cup winner thread and was really impressed with the white panther and Jamaican Dream especially.
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What PeeJay said. :cheesygrinsmiley:

White Panther is a damned good yielder and a breeze to grow! :thumb:
 
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