Gr8ful - Soil - Blue Mystic - N.L. - Aurora Indica

[NEPharmer]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

Thanks Bro, I suppose it could have been worse, but it still sucks. On the other hand, last night I scored a BC Northernlights Producer Grow Box for $485 in an auction! They go for like $3200 new I believe. I am proberly going to sell it, as I can use the money.

As for your plants, its getting really difficult to figure out exactly whats going on with them. The CalMag you added would need a few days to show improvments, and the damaged leafs will not come back, but you should start to see the new growth looking alot healthier. I am really hoping that this takes care of it for you. I think you should start adding light nutes soon, but it is scary since we havnt diagnosed the issue quite yet. Adding more nutes to say a lock-out situation will only make it worse. But since you did just flush, I think you will be ok, just go easy with them, maybe 1/4-1/2 strenght tops.
I would also say, dont get discouraged, I've seen much worse plants come back and have great harvests. Good luck, hope I've helped you out.
Peace,
NEPharmer

 

[HempRocket]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

Did you ever get a chance to check your pH of runoff? If so, what did you test it with? A pen pH tester, strips, mixing solution?

 

[Pop Kulture]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

This is bumming me out

Those little brown spots start to grow and then turn the leaves totally brown and then die.

The leaves are also showing sharp ridges on some of them which I can not figure out the problem either.

This one the brown spots took over and killed her lower leaf.

Not sure what is going on here but I am trying to pin point, got that Garden saver book from J.C. Stitch and Ed Rosenthal yesterday and it does look like it could be nitrogen deficiency but the guys at the grow store said it looked like something else. They said to try some Bio Root (1-1-1) and some CaMg+. I did add a little to the watering last night, as of this morning it doesnt look like anything is happening yet. I am at my wits end, they start to do well then go the other direction. The guys at the store say it is time for nutes at this stage but I know it also could be nute burn from the soil. The plants started to go down hill about the time I was going to start introducing nutes, that is why I did give them a weak dose on 2 occassions. Oh well I will find out if the Bio Root and Cal Mag do any good.

Its enough to drive you crazy! I hope it works out.

 

[Gr8fulMedHead]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

Its enough to drive you crazy! I hope it works out.

Pop Kulture, you are right it is driving me crazy! AHAHAHHHHHHHHHH.

I got that book you recommended and now when I cross reference with Jorges book I think you may be right about the Nitrogen deficiency. He says "The symptoms include slow growth. Lower leaves cannot produce clorophll and become yellow between the veins when the veins remain green. Yellowing porogresses through the entire leaf, eventually causing it to die and drop off." He goes on about the progression which appears to be the same progression my plants are going through. He says that Nitrogen gets used up fast and needs to be replaced continuously. He also says that Nitrogen is the most common nutrient deficiency.

He says to treat it by fertilizing with N or a complete N-P-K fert and should see results in 4-5 days. He doesnt say what the numbers should look like on the complete fert solution (1-1-1 or whatever). He says that fast acting organic solutions are Seabird Guano, fish emulsion and blood meal. (I think J.C. Stich bookalso said Bat Guano).

If I try some Nitrogen does anyone have an opinion whetehr I use a complete N-P-K fert or an organic solution?
Thanks!

 

[NEPharmer]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

That depends on whether you want your grow to be organic or not. If you already have regular nutes, I would use them. I was figuring it was a N deficiency, but the problem is that if it was due to lock-out, then adding more fert would make it worse, but since you did a flush, you should be ok, and this is most likely your problem. Good luck

 

[Gr8fulMedHead]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

That depends on whether you want your grow to be organic or not. If you already have regular nutes, I would use them. I was figuring it was a N deficiency, but the problem is that if it was due to lock-out, then adding more fert would make it worse, but since you did a flush, you should be ok, and this is most likely your problem. Good luck

I have General organics nutes but really did not use a whole lot of them yet as I have been worried about nute burn. I am reading up on the soil mixes too and I think next time I need to build my own soiless mix or something. I also think the ridges on my leaves may be from heat stress. My sensor is an inch or two below my canopy so it may be registering low. I am going ot try to remedy that today.
Thanks NEPharmer!

 

[Pop Kulture]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

Stab in the dark - Do you check ph AFTER adding nutes? During my last grow, I started out using the ph drops to test my H2O before watering and adjusted my ph accordingly then add my nutes. Some plants loved it - others looked very much like your problem plants. Once I got a pen ph tester I started measuring the ph AFTER adding nutes and found that it was lower the ph into the 4s. Just a thought.

 

[phdtje]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

Yes correct pH helps.

When leaves, especially lower leaves start to yellow, and later turn brown and gray, you can almost be certain it are deficiencies. Kalium (K) deficiency should lead to more deficiencies as it helps with regulating P and Mg in the system, and Mg helps with regulating N in the system.
If you had over-fertilization in Kalium / Potassium and a lack of Nitrogen your lower leaves would start to yellow, then the excess K would be put into those leaves, turning them yellower/orange colored, after the K is taken out the leaves again, they start to turn gray and brown.
Lower grey and brown leaves most of the times point to indeed lack of nitrogen.

Looking into books helps great, I learned this way the fact cannabis plants are almost always considered as heavy nitrogen consuming plants. Remember most Chinese sativa's for example have to grow at least 15 feet tall in less than 4 months time, that's a lot for most tree/plants in a short time, hence the name weed.
These plants use Nitrogen like made mam, or in most cases women.
Nitrogen is for leaves, branches, stem, roots, later also some for flowers. So when a plants wants to grow fast you have to give it enough nitrogen. Specially during vegetative accelerated growth, entering flowering phase.
Most vega fertilizers contain enough N as well as enough K. Since plants need both a lot in vegetative phase.

Now you are using a 1-1-1 NPK fertilizer. For a vegging plant that's not too good i think. Some fertilizers use slow releasing substances, like different substances releasing P slower in the soil. I'm not fan of those, this could be such one. Or if not the case, sounds more like a flowering fertilizer to me.

I would recommend, a fertilizer with less P and/or less K. Something like.
NPK 3-1-4 or 3-1-3.
I had good experience with a simple fertilizer using 7-3-6 but not containing micro elements. Darkest and largest leaves I've ever seen on my plants here. Also containing different Nitrogen substance like NH4+ (ammonium) along with NO3- (nitrate).
Remember plants absorb nitrate for the nitrogen. But bacteria in the soil, use ammonium and also nitrite (NO2-) and also other substances like urea (NH2-) from animals to provide the plants nitrate for it's need the nitrogen in this form.
these bacteria are all part of the Nitrogen Cycle, which without plants can't even live.

Also at last, often this goes hand in hand with the nitrogen consumption, less water, most cannabis varieties need relatively dry soil to what most of us are used to. This way plants can correct pH themselves very well. I'm using soil the 4th time, apart from bit of unbalancing in NPK, also having N def's, adding 3-1-4 now, the pH is not a problem. Never corrected and/or have measured pH here.
Am using a bit of simple, Ca/Mg powder to help keeping the soil pH stable though. Just the cheap granulate in a big bucket which you can get at almost very plant shop.

If you are not changing nutes, at least add up the current nutes a bit, just try it. If after keeping the nutes low, nothing much improves, try the opposite, same with watering. that's what i do.
Also when swapping nutes, i would give at least what's recommended.

hopefully those plants get growing fast soon.

 

[Pop Kulture]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

Yes correct pH helps.

When leaves, especially lower leaves start to yellow, and later turn brown and gray, you can almost be certain it are deficiencies. Kalium (K) deficiency should lead to more deficiencies as it helps with regulating P and Mg in the system, and Mg helps with regulating N in the system.
If you had over-fertilization in Kalium / Potassium and a lack of Nitrogen your lower leaves would start to yellow, then the excess K would be put into those leaves, turning them yellower/orange colored, after the K is taken out the leaves again, they start to turn gray and brown.
Lower grey and brown leaves most of the times point to indeed lack of nitrogen.

Looking into books helps great, I learned this way the fact cannabis plants are almost always considered as heavy nitrogen consuming plants. Remember most Chinese sativa's for example have to grow at least 15 feet tall in less than 4 months time, that's a lot for most tree/plants in a short time, hence the name weed.
These plants use Nitrogen like made mam, or in most cases women.
Nitrogen is for leaves, branches, stem, roots, later also some for flowers. So when a plants wants to grow fast you have to give it enough nitrogen. Specially during vegetative accelerated growth, entering flowering phase.
Most vega fertilizers contain enough N as well as enough K. Since plants need both a lot in vegetative phase.

Now you are using a 1-1-1 NPK fertilizer. For a vegging plant that's not too good i think. Some fertilizers use slow releasing substances, like different substances releasing P slower in the soil. I'm not fan of those, this could be such one. Or if not the case, sounds more like a flowering fertilizer to me.

I would recommend, a fertilizer with less P and/or less K. Something like.
NPK 3-1-4 or 3-1-3.
I had good experience with a simple fertilizer using 7-3-6 but not containing micro elements. Darkest and largest leaves I've ever seen on my plants here. Also containing different Nitrogen substance like NH4+ (ammonium) along with NO3- (nitrate).
Remember plants absorb nitrate for the nitrogen. But bacteria in the soil, use ammonium and also nitrite (NO2-) and also other substances like urea (NH2-) from animals to provide the plants nitrate for it's need the nitrogen in this form.
these bacteria are all part of the Nitrogen Cycle, which without plants can't even live.

Also at last, often this goes hand in hand with the nitrogen consumption, less water, most cannabis varieties need relatively dry soil to what most of us are used to. This way plants can correct pH themselves very well. I'm using soil the 4th time, apart from bit of unbalancing in NPK, also having N def's, adding 3-1-4 now, the pH is not a problem. Never corrected and/or have measured pH here.
Am using a bit of simple, Ca/Mg powder to help keeping the soil pH stable though. Just the cheap granulate in a big bucket which you can get at almost very plant shop.

If you are not changing nutes, at least add up the current nutes a bit, just try it. If after keeping the nutes low, nothing much improves, try the opposite, same with watering. that's what i do.
Also when swapping nutes, i would give at least what's recommended.

hopefully those plants get growing fast soon.

What recommendations/advice would you give with regards to water/nutes for 1st post seedling watering? What strategy do you employ for observing the effects of these early waterings on the plant and its roots?

In a few days I will be transplanting some seedlings from a cell tray to square pots - soil grow (promix) and any pointers for improving my ability to observe changes in the plant post watering. What should I be looking for early on in the grow?

Thanks

 

[phdtje]

Re: Gr8ful, soil, Blue Mystic, N.L., Aurora Indica

Pop Kulture,
With watering, i think most cannabis plants or maybe all produce leaves that point upwards 45 degrees angle. The should be hanging due to weight of the leaves, usually in a much later period. Exceptions are some pure sativa's because they produce very long and thin leaves often, with very fine and detailed nerve system. They usually hang a bit, but only in later phase when plant starts increasing existing and new leaves mass.
If they are hanging downwards not due to weight and size of the leave and leave tips, then it's often due to something wrong in the soil. If whole leaves are hanging and pots feel heavy, most likely too much water. If leaves are hanging downwards while pots are light, it can be too less water, but can also be too much nutes, often nitrogen (green leaves ofc), dead leaves always hang down.
Sometimes leave tips point towards down almost 90 degrees, most likely also nutes prob, which can cause pH props, plant cant do much in soil, first needs to stabilize local EC and pH, doesn't work when constantly adding wrong nutes or too much.
If they fold upwards it is most certain a nutes and/or pH problem.

Don't mind a few leaves folding downwards (upwards is usually not too good), though they can be used as indication for some inaccuracy in nutes supplement, look at the plant as a whole, if she looks healthy in general then it's fine.
Also go look in nature, find plants bit similar in growth to cannabis, which are growing in natural their chosen habitat, and check their leaf system from bottom to top, most leaves are always green, but not too green. Only 1 or 2 yellow underneath.

Starting with nutes, check your soil first.
If you don't know, you can start with 1 or even 0.5 ml / liter or 3-4 ml / gallon.
If the soil contains a lot of fertilization for a long time, best not to feed in the beginning, starting 2 or 3 weeks later.
Using light soil, often you can start the second week in big pots. You can also add some with the first watering, and then give a a few times just water without or just start adding half doses nutes.
If it's new soil you can just start increasing nutes slowly after a week, if plant show lack off nutes, often lower leaves in vega phase and small plant or in flowering phase shows small flowers.
You can schedule for yourself, try increasing every week, keep some water (+enzymes) close so you can easily half the current given dose for that week when encountering over fertilization or are not sure, sometimes when feeding them too the max, it's often a good thing to try out some less.

 

[Gr8fulMedHead]

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Stab in the dark - Do you check ph AFTER adding nutes? During my last grow, I started out using the ph drops to test my H2O before watering and adjusted my ph accordingly then add my nutes. Some plants loved it - others looked very much like your problem plants. Once I got a pen ph tester I started measuring the ph AFTER adding nutes and found that it was lower the ph into the 4s. Just a thought.

I have not tested the PH after adding Nutes but I did giove them 5ml or Ca-MG and 5ML of Bio Thrive Grow (4-3-3) per Gallon on Friday. They look much better today. I think I have a nute deficiency as they are coming back. See pic's below I am about to upload. I will try testing PH after nutes added, that makes sense too. Thanks Pop Kulture.

I would recommend, a fertilizer with less P and/or less K. Something like.
NPK 3-1-4 or 3-1-3.

PHDTJE, thanks for dropping by. I think you are right and I did do some 4-3-3 3 days ago and it seems to have helped. After 3 weeks my seedlings were about ready for nutes, at least that is what I thought. But they started showing signs of stress or nute burn so I layed off. However, may have been a deficiency, I am new to this so I tried to introduce a couple of times and it did not seem to help. Now I know it takes 4 or 5 days to show results and I think I am seeing that now. I am very happy the color is starting to come back and I am hoping that I see some new growth soon. I am very interested in learning more about soil and the macro and micro nutrients that need to be present. I tend to research things to death so I hope in the coming months I can start to comprehend more about what you are saying here. Thanks for the advice and welcome to my grow, feel free to chime in at any time. I appreciate everybodys help.

 

[Gr8fulMedHead]

Blue Mystic #4, used to be my dying girl now she is coming back a lot better than some others.

BM #3

BM#5

BM #2

NL#5

NL#2

NL#3

BM#1 The plants I LST showed the most stress, turned almost all yellow and you can see this one showing more color after a weak dose of 4-3-3 on Friday, it is now Monday morning. I think I will go to full strength, 10ML on the next watering which should be tonight or tomorrow.

NL#4 was my weakest NL out of th egate, now still a little weak but looking better.

NL#1

Aurora Indica #1

AI#2

12 Ladies

As you can see from the last pics they are starting to show some more green leavves and signs of better health. I think I am going ot slowly introduce nutes to see if it continues. I believe I made several mistakes up to now at different stages which will only help me later (future grows). Ex. Letting the soil dry out too much in seedling stage, heat stress, soil mix, etc. Live and learn. Thanks for all the input and advice, I am starting to become dangerous, actually starting to think i am starting to figure this out! LOL!

 

[Gr8fulMedHead]

Did you ever get a chance to check your pH of runoff? If so, what did you test it with? A pen pH tester, strips, mixing solution?

Hey Hemp, sorry just saw this. I did test the runoff, I posted it somewhere on here. I think before I watered it was in the 6.5-7 range and then it dropped to 6.0-6.5 ish. I tested it when I did my flush. I used a mix solution where i put 3-5 drops in the water, shake it and look at the color to match to a chart. I need to get a pen tester!

 

[NEPharmer]

Hey Gr8, they seem to be bouncing back, good job. All of the issues you run into on each grow teach you lessons for the next. Every grow I have done has been better than the last. I just harvested my first plant of this round and it looks great! Keep it up your on your way!
Peace,
NEPharmer

 

[Gr8fulMedHead]

I just harvested my first plant of this round and it looks great!

Killer NEPharmer, I can not wait for that happy day!

This has definitley been a roller coaster ride for me the last several weeks. I am sure my experience level will improve drastically, actually 100% after this grow! LOL! I went from nothing to something and that is definitley 100%, I am doing better already! I am sure part of this has to be mental, get in the right state of mind, put out a good vibe and keep my shite straight!

 

[Pop Kulture]

Hey Hemp, sorry just saw this. I did test the runoff, I posted it somewhere on here. I think before I watered it was in the 6.5-7 range and then it dropped to 6.0-6.5 ish. I tested it when I did my flush. I used a mix solution where i put 3-5 drops in the water, shake it and look at the color to match to a chart. I need to get a pen tester!

Yeah, ph pen tester will definitely be worth it. Looks good!

 

[HempRocket]

dude. They are looking better. You are right, start giving them a little bit more nutes. I think they can handle it.

The way you test for pH is not very accurate. Those drops are OK if you use tap water but for testing your nute solution or for testing runoff they are not very accurate. Pop Kulture is right, you should invest in one of the digital pH pens. I bought one on Ebay for $10 or so. It came with calibration solutions so it was a good deal. It has worked beautifully for me.

 

[NEPharmer]

I also got one on ebay for really cheap, $3 dollers on e-bay, I think it was around $15 after shiping and handleing. It's worth it, your gonna want one if you plan on growing for a while. Especially if you ever plan on trying hydro, but you really should have one for soil grows as well. Differant nutes do differant things to the ph, and the drops dont work after adding them to your water. I'm glad your plants are looking a little better.
Peace,
NEPharmer

 

[Gr8fulMedHead]

Bouncing back, trying to level the canopy with some insulation I had from a different project. I tape the ends with duct tape so no foam flies around.

These are my to big Blue Mystic Ladies, looking forward to seeing them continue to grow. They are around 14-15 inches tall.

Northern Lights #1

NL#4 I did LST on her Friday.

NL#5 got the LST treatment Friday as well.

Blue Mystic #2

Aurora Indica #1 is one thick bush.

NL#2

AI#2 is a fatty too.

BM#1

NL#3

BM#5

BM#3

Blue Mystic #4 was one of my weak plants I thought about trashing to grow a new one as I can only have 12 plants right now. However, she bounced back pretty well and is my tallest plant at 15 inches right now.

The above photo shows what the profile of my garden looks like as you walk in my room.

BTW, I did order a PH Pen after some research on this forum looked like the Milwaukee PH600 is pretty good, I got the ph7 buffer to calibrate and the cleaning and storage solutions along with it.

I noticed that after watering on Saturday that I needed to water sooner as I used 1 gallon for four plants where I had been doing 3 plants per gallon before. Not sure if they got dry quicker because of that or because they are growing pretty well and just using up the moisture that much faster. I have stuck with the same nute %'s as before which is 10ML of the Bio Root (1-1-1), 10ML of the BioThrive Grow (4-3-3), 5ML of the CAMag+ and 2.5ML of Bio Weed. It seems to be working pretty well, they are getting a lot more green / healthier looking. I will probably do a flush next week.

When should I think about transplanting into those 7 gallon buckets? Should I wait until I flower them? Any suggestions on a soil mix?

 

[NEPharmer]

I like to transplant before I trigger flowering. When transplanting, somtimes plants will get a little shock or stress, I usually like to allow the plant to bounce back and grow a little more after the transplant, then trigger flowering. I figure that if the plant is going through transplant shock during flowering, its not focusing on the flowering process, and could throw off the total flowering time. I personally try not to stress my plants during flowering if possible. They are looking alot better, but is that a little nute burn on the leaf tips, or is that just from the issues earlier on?