Glookie (V2) - Delps8 Does NASC/Barney's Farm Glookies In DWC Again

[No Pain]

I feel that the uptake and issues you are dealing with are due to the aeration and the root system. The Air pump you have coming should help quite a bit. I hope that you also have some good size air stones coming also . My suggestion would be to focus on cleaning the root system with some Hydrogen Peroxide in the res. This is the pump I run but remember I have custom diffusers and I'm aerating 5 buckets total and my line is 3/4," ET120 also I'm pushing aeration to its limits, I also have a pressure regulator and valve at the end of the line to regulate the airflow in my system.. The one you have on the way comes out to about 31 liters per minute and the safe recommended range is 1-2 lpm per gallon of solution. what's your water temp ? I would also turn down the light if it has a dimmer to eliminate stress until you get the new air pump installed and the res/root zone situated. Is that a bowl of ice next to your bushy lady ?

 

[Delps8]

I feel that the uptake and issues you are dealing with are due to the aeration and the root system. The Air pump you have coming should help quite a bit. I hope that you also have some good size air stones coming also . My suggestion would be to focus on cleaning the root system with some Hydrogen Peroxide in the res. This is the pump I run but remember I have custom diffusers and I'm aerating 5 buckets total and my line is 3/4," ET120 also I'm pushing aeration to its limits, I also have a pressure regulator and valve at the end of the line to regulate the airflow in my system.. The one you have on the way comes out to about 31 liters per minute and the safe recommended range is 1-2 lpm per gallon of solution. what's your water temp ? I would also turn down the light if it has a dimmer to eliminate stress until you get the new air pump installed and the res/root zone situated. Is that a bowl of ice next to your bushy lady ?

The issue I had with my roots was that the air stones were under the roots. I moved the air stones out of the way and the new pump is purring along at just over 50%. At 100% the bubbles were so violent that it was thrashing the roots.

I've never found any data on the right pump size. Data = research. If you've got data, do tell. I've found recommendations and, as expected, the numbers range 400%.

"bowl of ice" - . Interesting. I suspect that you're referring to the bowl on the left front of the res? I put that there to catch the condensation from the hose for the humidifier and it's interesting that you ask because that's a PITA for me, one that goes back to "I need a bigger tent". More on that later but, for now…

One major goal is to control VPD. One of the nice things about this grow has been that VPD has been very close to optimal almost 100% of the time. One factor in that is the mist from Hugh into the grow chamber. I've been routing the hose over one side of the light and then down into the space below. Two things about using the hose - if there's a bend, water will collect, and, second, condensation at the end of the tube. I don't want the condensate to drop on the plant so I have to position the hose in a location where I can put drip pan.

My preference would be to get Hugh off the floor (Gorilla makes equipment boards that fit the ends of the tent) and then I'll have to route the mist in another way. If I had a diffuser, I could route the hose in over the center of the grow and put the bowl in the center of the plant.

 

[Delps8]

okay If you would like a bucket system I can help you build one. I would not concern myself with it only holding 10 gallons at all, with good nutes and aeration, circulation along with temp control stability will not be an issue. (how many plants are you wanting to grow at a time ? ) if only one then i would be looking more towards 8-5 gallon buckets pipe them together and one is the res and the other is the growing pod and you have twice the solution and easy Maintenace and res changes to say the least .

I'm not convinced that there's a lot of value in going to a smaller res. One concern about growing two plants in my current res, which holds 26 gallon, is that the roots tend to intertwine and that means a little more work over the course of the grow and/or at harvest time. That's not a problem now because I grow only one plant.

If I wanted to grow two plants, I can do that in my current res or, if I were to go to multiple buckets, I'd go with a 13 gallon bucket, probably from PA Hydro. After watching some YT videos and checking their web site, I suspect that I could get them to make a 2 bucket system with an exterior reservoir that would work very nicely. In that case, I think it would be good to drop to the 8 gallon size. That's only 6± gallons per plant but, with the res of 8 or 13 gallons, that would give me the stability/longevity that I'm used to now.

The issue - is it worth the hassle? Perhaps.

I've been checking out my workspace and, with some work, I can run an external into the tent. Due to how my tent is situated, I'll have to put the res a couple of feet to the right of the tent and run a pipe with a couple of right angles. Also, I'll have to move the heater. There's a rack of shelves to the right of the tent and the heater is on the first shelf with the hose running in through the port in the tent. The heater can stay where it is but have to put another port in the tent to run the hose.

The question remains - is it worth it?

I can get to two plants by moving Hugh off the floor and putting it on a rack. That will allow me to center the res in the tent. After that, I can use the net pots that are in the lid now or make my own lid. I'm leaning toward the latter but have contacted the manufacturer to get a price on a lid that's not predrilled.

so for example. You say No Pain I want a bucket system..my suggestion would be to get two of these buckets and two of these lids the get three of these bulkheads a length of 2 inch pvc pipe and 2 90 degree elbows and then 2 inch to threaded 3/4 reducer bushing and a 3/4 valve threaded valve and length of 3/4 inch pvc and two 3/4 inch threaded male adapters along with one filter and length of 3/4 vinyl tubing and one pvc tubing adapter now for the pump. Cant forget two 8 inch net pots one is a spare . you now have a mini rdwc system like mine only thing that needs to be added is the air pump and aerator which i am more than happy to put in links if this is the route you would like to go.

Thanks for the list. It's good to have more sources for those items.

Per above, I'm not sold on changing my res design. My goal is to have a stable res and stable VPD. I can generate at least two pounds a year (Fall and Summer grows) which is more than enough for me. If I move Hugh, I can probably grow two plants. That's why I'm not keen on putting the time into a new res setup. It's not a cost issue, it's a time issue. I'd much rather pay for a finished product than go through the process of creating my own.

Having said that, one change I do want to make is to put bulkheads in my current res for the water chiller tubes. At the moment, I'm running them into the res via a net pot hole. The hole is covered over, so it's not letting light into the res, but a pair of bulkheads would make it a cleaner install. I've bought fittings from Amazon but I'll check out the links that you've provided.

 

[No Pain]

The issue I had with my roots was that the air stones were under the roots. I moved the air stones out of the way and the new pump is purring along at just over 50%. At 100% the bubbles were so violent that it was thrashing the roots.

This is the first time you have mentioned that your air stones damaged your roots. My statement was based on this post where you stated hypoxia and that one of your air stones was not functioning. So you also have damage from the air stone along with having the issue of not enough oxygen ?

I've never found any data on the right pump size. Data = research. If you've got data, do tell. I've found recommendations and, as expected, the numbers range 400%.

Anything I have ever read the "Genral rule of thumb" is 1-2 liters per minute of air per gallon of solution, that was always my starting point/base line when i started working on aeration. Also, when it comes to aerating a reservoir a bucket a system it's not about how many bubbles it's about breaking the water tension and a micro bubbler like i show in the dyi I posted does that and more efficiently and that's why it's more effective at oxygenating the water and the water doesn't look like its boiling like it can get with air stones.

The only Data I might have to offer you are pictures of grows and root masses in grows when I had air stones and then my two custom modifications that has led me to what i use today.

"bowl of ice" - . Interesting. I suspect that you're referring to the bowl on the left front of the res? I put that there to catch the condensation from the hose for the humidifier and it's interesting that you ask because that's a PITA for me, one that goes back to "I need a bigger tent". More on that later but, for now…

got ya. I was wondering as I cold see a bowl and it looked like it had ice in it. Thats why I asked.

One major goal is to control VPD. One of the nice things about this grow has been that VPD has been very close to optimal almost 100% of the time. One factor in that is the mist from Hugh into the grow chamber. I've been routing the hose over one side of the light and then down into the space below. Two things about using the hose - if there's a bend, water will collect, and, second, condensation at the end of the tube. I don't want the condensate to drop on the plant so I have to position the hose in a location where I can put drip pan.

I also focus on Vpd mine is about 1.35 based on room temp ,rh and leaf temp so yeah me and my ladies are pretty happy.

My preference would be to get Hugh off the floor (Gorilla makes equipment boards that fit the ends of the tent) and then I'll have to route the mist in another way. If I had a diffuser, I could route the hose in over the center of the grow and put the bowl in the center of the plant.

I made a platform for mine out of some 2x4's and fiber board to get mine off of the floor.

 

[No Pain]

I'm not convinced that there's a lot of value in going to a smaller res. One concern about growing two plants in my current res, which holds 26 gallon, is that the roots tend to intertwine and that means a little more work over the course of the grow and/or at harvest time. That's not a problem now because I grow only one plant.

If I wanted to grow two plants, I can do that in my current res or, if I were to go to multiple buckets, I'd go with a 13 gallon bucket, probably from PA Hydro. After watching some YT videos and checking their web site, I suspect that I could get them to make a 2 bucket system with an exterior reservoir that would work very nicely. In that case, I think it would be good to drop to the 8 gallon size. That's only 6± gallons per plant but, with the res of 8 or 13 gallons, that would give me the stability/longevity that I'm used to now.

The issue - is it worth the hassle? Perhaps.

you could run two plants in what you have now . I would not recommend it as you said the roots will get entangled and heaven forbid one gets sick and you have to pull it and its roots are tied together. It would be a mess.

when I look at a system I look at what you did in your final statement its overall capacity as with running a recirculating system its not about what under them its about what they have access to and how often . the how often is determined by the size water pump you use.

I've been checking out my workspace and, with some work, I can run an external into the tent. Due to how my tent is situated, I'll have to put the res a couple of feet to the right of the tent and run a pipe with a couple of right angles. Also, I'll have to move the heater. There's a rack of shelves to the right of the tent and the heater is on the first shelf with the hose running in through the port in the tent. The heater can stay where it is but have to put another port in the tent to run the hose.

The question remains - is it worth it?

my res is actually 6 feet away from my buckets and yes its worth it makes every process that goes along with hydroponics more efficient in my opinion. From swapping the res , maintaining the ph , adding/topping off .

I can get to two plants by moving Hugh off the floor and putting it on a rack. That will allow me to center the res in the tent. After that, I can use the net pots that are in the lid now or make my own lid. I'm leaning toward the latter but have contacted the manufacturer to get a price on a lid that's not predrilled.

Thanks for the list. It's good to have more sources for those items.

Per above, I'm not sold on changing my res design. My goal is to have a stable res and stable VPD. I can generate at least two pounds a year (Fall and Summer grows) which is more than enough for me. If I move Hugh, I can probably grow two plants. That's why I'm not keen on putting the time into a new res setup. It's not a cost issue, it's a time issue. I'd much rather pay for a finished product than go through the process of creating my own.

at two pound a year I would do a one bucket system with an external res or use what you have and tap into it with the bulkheads that linked. I like building things but I do understand the simplicity of purchasing pre built . after all the system I'm using now was pre made . In my defense when I purchased it they did not offer the bulkheads separately if they had I would have built it . There bulkheads' are proprietary for anyone building a bucket system . AS in ones that i had made in the past, if there was an issue it was generally in that area.

Having said that, one change I do want to make is to put bulkheads in my current res for the water chiller tubes. At the moment, I'm running them into the res via a net pot hole. The hole is covered over, so it's not letting light into the res, but a pair of bulkheads would make it a cleaner install. I've bought fittings from Amazon but I'll check out the links that you've provided.

I love their bulkheads, but I'm sure you figured that out by now.

so speaking of systems and having had spoken of roots i had noticed some lightening in one of, my ladies and I thought it was due to the light being to strong and starting to bleach her but it was only her and her neighbor. Turns out it was due to the roots of the lady before her starting to fill the tube that joins them, and I had to remove some as well as in the return line after it was all said and done. lol here is a pic of what was in the return line.

 

[Delps8]

Following this, also just grew glookies, harvested in mid dec. She was fire. Still savoring last lil bit. Got 5.5 ozs off 1st run, and 4 off 2nd. Grew in 2x4 sf tent kit, added 150watt hydroplan light. Or something like that. The pheno i had turned purple and had some nice frost, also was dense af. Nice strain. Cant really explain taste and flavor but i loved it. Dank

Apologies for the delay, I've been a bit self-involved…

Thanks for that info. I'd love to see buds like you described! One reason is it's been almost a full year since there were any buds in this tent, so if I end up with some great colors, that's an added benefit.

These seeds have a 60-70 flower period. Does that checkout with how long yours were in flower?

 

[Delps8]

This is the first time you have mentioned that your air stones damaged your roots. My statement was based on this post where you stated hypoxia and that one of your air stones was not functioning. So you also have damage from the air stone along with having the issue of not enough oxygen ?

When I turned the new pump to 100%, it was "thrashing" the roots in that the bubble streams actually pushing them above surface of the water in the res. The pump has a dial in the power cord that allows me to control the output so I turned it down ASAP. There was no damage to the roots, just a "Holy shit!" before I turned the dial down.

The "not enough oxygen" issue is because I put the air stones under the net pot when I started the grow. I think I did the same thing for my 2302 grow. My thinking is that I didn't move the air stones from being under the plant and, as the roots grew, they grew down to the bottom of the res and covered the air stones. Over time, that lead to reduced O2 in the res.

One contributing factor is that I'm not doing res changes as often and I didn't think to check the root zone even though I'm not swapping the res frequently. Had I done so, this issue would never have some up.

The other factor, is that there wasn't enough air coming from the air stones to keep the roots from settling on the air stone that was under the plant. If there had been more air coming from the stones, it might have been enough to keep the roots away from the air stone.

Anything I have ever read the "Genral rule of thumb" is 1-2 liters per minute of air per gallon of solution, that was always my starting point/base line when i started working on aeration. Also, when it comes to aerating a reservoir a bucket a system it's not about how many bubbles it's about breaking the water tension and a micro bubbler like i show in the dyi I posted does that and more efficiently and that's why it's more effective at oxygenating the water and the water doesn't look like its boiling like it can get with air stones.

You posted DIY stuff because that's who you are!

I checked out your HPA grow. Really interesting stuff. Love the blurple! I ran a Kind blurple back in 2017 and got pretty good results. But yeh, you're a DIY guy. Good on ya. My situation's very different and it's frustrating at times. I live in a gated community (no bid deal) in north Orange County, California about 1 hour south of LA. Very much a suburb where the house is attached to the garage. My garage holds two cars with very little room for anything more so there's very little floor space available and no room for a workbench. Tools? Very few. I've collected some over the years but a PVC pipe cutter? I'll "never" use it. Soldering iron? Same. There's no question that I'd love to have my own workspace but I just don't see it happening. Maybe next life!

Back at this grow - thanks to you and that biker dude @gwhunran, I've got a shiny new pump running and $$ to doughnuts, it's a good addition to the tent.

The only Data I might have to offer you are pictures of grows and root masses in grows when I had air stones and then my two custom modifications that has led me to what i use today.

Understood. "Data" for me is documented results from controlled experiments. We can infer a lot from the results that we get but, lacking controls, we best we have is a series of observations about inputs and outputs. Of course, we can safely draw accurate conclusions about something like pouring Up or Down into a res and ending up with dead plants but, for something non-trivial, cause and effect can be very hard to establish.

got ya. I was wondering as I cold see a bowl and it looked like it had ice in it. Thats why I asked.

Got it. I'm glad you did 'cause it helped get me to do something about it. Funny as it sounds, that bloody drip drip drip is annoying. I don't want to drop water all over the plant but I do want to get good RH values. So…

Home Depot to the rescue!

I'm going to put this on the end of the hose from the humidifier and hang it down over the center of the plant. That should do a decent job of dispersing the mist and I'll put the bowl in the center of the plant to catch the condensate.

Or I could just leave it alone since it's working fine now!

I also focus on Vpd mine is about 1.35 based on room temp ,rh and leaf temp so yeah me and my ladies are pretty happy.

The recommendations for VPD in flower seem to range from 1.1 to 1.4 but nothing more specific than that. What lead you to go with 1.35 vs, say, 1.2? Your grow is…mid-flower?

I'm at 1.2 now and was thinking of increasing by 0.1 every 20 days but that's based on a timeline, nothing more. It's lights on in <60 seconds so I'll be able to check to see if the tip burning is resolved. If not, it's either drop VPD to 1.2 for a bit or drop PPM. I'm thinking that latter. What's your take?

I made a platform for mine out of some 2x4's and fiber board to get mine off of the floor.

Same here. The water heater is in the back left of the garage and a large part of the floor in that is very warm. My hunch is that there's a hot water line running through the concrete that's uninsulated. It would be fine if this place had radiant heat but no such luck since it's a multistory house.

Heh, 10AM — lights on!

 

[No Pain]

When I turned the new pump to 100%, it was "thrashing" the roots in that the bubble streams actually pushing them above surface of the water in the res. The pump has a dial in the power cord that allows me to control the output so I turned it down ASAP. There was no damage to the roots, just a "Holy shit!" before I turned the dial down.

The "not enough oxygen" issue is because I put the air stones under the net pot when I started the grow. I think I did the same thing for my 2302 grow. My thinking is that I didn't move the air stones from being under the plant and, as the roots grew, they grew down to the bottom of the res and covered the air stones. Over time, that lead to reduced O2 in the res.

One contributing factor is that I'm not doing res changes as often and I didn't think to check the root zone even though I'm not swapping the res frequently. Had I done so, this issue would never have some up.

The other factor, is that there wasn't enough air coming from the air stones to keep the roots from settling on the air stone that was under the plant. If there had been more air coming from the stones, it might have been enough to keep the roots away from the air stone.

Yes depending on the stones it can get pretty violent. I would put 4 stones in there, one in each corner and then dial it in to my liking via the power adjustment. I know about root system checking neglect as that is what happened to me last night and I definitely no better. .

You posted DIY stuff because that's who you are!

I checked out your HPA grow. Really interesting stuff. Love the blurple! I ran a Kind blurple back in 2017 and got pretty good results. But yeh, you're a DIY guy. Good on ya. My situation's very different and it's frustrating at times. I live in a gated community (no bid deal) in north Orange County, California about 1 hour south of LA. Very much a suburb where the house is attached to the garage. My garage holds two cars with very little room for anything more so there's very little floor space available and no room for a workbench. Tools? Very few. I've collected some over the years but a PVC pipe cutter? I'll "never" use it. Soldering iron? Same. There's no question that I'd love to have my own workspace but I just don't see it happening. Maybe next life!

Cool, yes the HPA system Journey was fun and exciting at the time there wasn't anything really covering it only people that had attempted it. As a matter a fact on another site I had a Person tell me that i was doomed for failure as he had the best in the business attempting this as well as helping him . So I had to do a lot of figuring on go by what my instincts told me. The last version of it which is on the last page of the journal was a hybrid system and that was in a 2x2 if i remember right and it would be perfect for you.

OMG the blurple yes I remember those days and as a matter of fact it was using them that led me to the companies lights that I use now . Back then there was a lot of info back then.

Back at this grow - thanks to you and that biker dude @gwhunran, I've got a shiny new pump running and $$ to doughnuts, it's a good addition to the tent.


Understood. "Data" for me is documented results from controlled experiments. We can infer a lot from the results that we get but, lacking controls, we best we have is a series of observations about inputs and outputs. Of course, we can safely draw accurate conclusions about something like pouring Up or Down into a res and ending up with dead plants but, for something non-trivial, cause and effect can be very hard to establish.

yes the data I was using was grow to grow only variable being the modification of the airline and looking at the end results of the run as well as the development during the course.

Got it. I'm glad you did 'cause it helped get me to do something about it. Funny as it sounds, that bloody drip drip drip is annoying. I don't want to drop water all over the plant but I do want to get good RH values. So…

Home Depot to the rescue!

I'm going to put this on the end of the hose from the humidifier and hang it down over the center of the plant. That should do a decent job of dispersing the mist and I'll put the bowl in the center of the plant to catch the condensate.

Or I could just leave it alone since it's working fine now!

if you can you could lower the tip of the hose and angle it upward so that water flows to the back of the outlet and tap into the base and run a hose to a jug or a bucket for collection.

The recommendations for VPD in flower seem to range from 1.1 to 1.4 but nothing more specific than that. What lead you to go with 1.35 vs, say, 1.2? Your grow is…mid-flower?

This is the VPD site I use, and it also has a calculator.

I'm at 1.2 now and was thinking of increasing by 0.1 every 20 days but that's based on a timeline, nothing more. It's lights on in <60 seconds so I'll be able to check to see if the tip burning is resolved. If not, it's either drop VPD to 1.2 for a bit or drop PPM. I'm thinking that latter. What's your take?

Thats what I'm doing now. Finding the right feed to water ratio. I would recommend if you see tip burning to cut back by 50-100 ppm. Then pay attention the ppm of the solution as compared to water uptake and focus on getting a balance example 2 gallons of water has been taken up and ppms have increased. Top off with plain water record the ppm's after you know that it has fully circulated and see what the reading is at the next top off. Every strain is going to be a tad different, However the method of dialing them in is always the same.

Same here. The water heater is in the back left of the garage and a large part of the floor in that is very warm. My hunch is that there's a hot water line running through the concrete that's uninsulated. It would be fine if this place had radiant heat but no such luck since it's a multistory house.

Heh, 10AM — lights on!

gotcha

 

[Delps8]

Yes depending on the stones it can get pretty violent. I would put 4 stones in there, one in each corner and then dial it in to my liking via the power adjustment. I know about root system checking neglect as that is what happened to me last night and I definitely no better. .

I think that's the right prescription. After the messages from this AM, I did a Google search and got some good info about how fish ponds are aerated. Similar problem but I think the one we're dealing with is easier to solve. The trick is that the bubbles cause some increase in DO but the big win is that the bubbles hit the surface and bring in additional O2.

I made that change a few hours ago and it's really something — I can hear the bubbles as soon as I step in the garage. That's really something because that sound is coming through the res, through the tent, and across the garage. Good stuff!

Cool, yes the HPA system Journey was fun and exciting at the time there wasn't anything really covering it only people that had attempted it. As a matter a fact on another site I had a Person tell me that i was doomed for failure as he had the best in the business attempting this as well as helping him . So I had to do a lot of figuring on go by what my instincts told me. The last version of it which is on the last page of the journal was a hybrid system and that was in a 2x2 if i remember right and it would be perfect for you.

I can see how it was one of the "steps" that you've taken, thinking about your "8 year" comment.

Re. a perfect setup for me - are you kidding me! I'm just getting this one figured out!

More on that in a second…

OMG the blurple yes I remember those days and as a matter of fact it was using them that led me to the companies lights that I use now . Back then there was a lot of info back then.

The blurple was the cat's meow! I used mine for my 2017 grow but moved on to a Mars SP 3000 very quickly. How did you get from blurple to the lights you have now?

yes the data I was using was grow to grow only variable being the modification of the airline and looking at the end results of the run as well as the development during the course.

I get that. A lot of us capture data during the course of our grows but "data from a controlled experiment" is a whole different beast. I've attached a paper re. lighting that helped me understand how growers can use light to improve their crops.

The attached paper provides the details of an experiment done to test changes in yield, potency, and photosynthesis under differing levels of lighting (right from the title - funny that!).

This study was done on light but the format would be the same for a study on O2. Check out the big pieces - the subject so the studied, an abstract (bottom line up front), the methods, the equipment, the data, the conclusions, and a summary (going from memory…). That's level of data is provided so that others can reproduce the experiment and publish their findings. If the results can be reproduced, the hypothesis moves toward being accepted by the research community. It's very detailed work that requires a lot of build out, a lot of man hours, and a lot of record keeping.

if you can you could lower the tip of the hose and angle it upward so that water flows to the back of the outlet and tap into the base and run a hose to a jug or a bucket for collection.

Yeh, I can put a hole in the tubing but I haven't had to do that so far. I get good RH across the canopy by tucking the hose in the left front corner of the tent and having the fan blow the mist into the tent. I'll see how things go with the T connector that's due in tomorrow. At the moment, I've disconnected the hose and the mist is going into the back of the fan and which is pushing it into the tent. I'm getting the new version of the fan this week which has a better waterproofing rating.

These are just variations on a theme with the objective being to be able to move Hugh off the floor which will get back some floor space I need to be able to get a second plant in there. That's something I'll take care of this summer and it will take a fair amount of work but it will result in me being able to create a stable VPD environment as well as a stable res. That's the goal.

And in the back of my mind I'm thinking about what would be needed to build a grow "box" because if I can do that then I can run CO2!

This is the VPD site I use, and it also has a calculator.

Good info there. Looks like 1.2-1.4 will do fine.

Thats what I'm doing now. Finding the right feed to water ratio. I would recommend if you see tip burning to cut back by 50-100 ppm. Then pay attention the ppm of the solution as compared to water uptake and focus on getting a balance example 2 gallons of water has been taken up and ppms have increased. Top off with plain water record the ppm's after you know that it has fully circulated and see what the reading is at the next top off. Every strain is going to be a tad different, However the method of dialing them in is always the same.

I dropped five gallons and that got PPM down to 540/500 from 600/500. I'm not seeing any new burned tips, though. Six days ago, the res was at 700, then 720, so this change might not have been necessary but we'll know that pretty soon.

Re. res management - I started with adding back but switched to the top off approach. Works fine but it's so tempting to go back to just topping off with diluted nutes, so much I'm leaning in that direction. I got the skinny on topping off from this site but Bubgee does it a little differently, no surprise. If I recall correctly, they do tissue analysis and then adjust specific deficiencies but, overall, they fill up their res with a ⅓ strength mix. I'd love to be able to set up a float valve in the res and but I get the impression that will lead to issues. Any experience with that?

 

[No Pain]

I think that's the right prescription. After the messages from this AM, I did a Google search and got some good info about how fish ponds are aerated. Similar problem but I think the one we're dealing with is easier to solve. The trick is that the bubbles cause some increase in DO but the big win is that the bubbles hit the surface and bring in additional O2.

I made that change a few hours ago and it's really something — I can hear the bubbles as soon as I step in the garage. That's really something because that sound is coming through the res, through the tent, and across the garage. Good stuff!

Yes sir! Thats good stuff. As in any hydroponic system its all about the DO "dissolved oxygen" The more do in the system the more efficient the uptake of nutrients is and that is just one reason why e/c / ppm / tds are not created equal when it comes to people growing in hydroponics. So needless to say, you will start to witness a more efficient uptake the level of that is depicted by the stones and the size of the bubbles. again, micro is best as with mine if you look in the diy it's not only adding bubbles but what you may not be able to see is that when it reaches the surface it causes tiny droplets of what to spring up and fall back down, that is breaking the water tension with nothing in the bucket it actually creates a small mist.

I can see how it was one of the "steps" that you've taken, thinking about your "8 year" comment.

Re. a perfect setup for me - are you kidding me! I'm just getting this one figured out!

yes jumping back into to I was committed to efficiency to say the least.

ha I'm still figuring stuff out .. the day we stop learning is the day we truly die. One example and I will post tomorrow about it in my thread and I'm going to thank you now here as well as in my thread .

About what you say? Posting the term/abbreviation DLI. I never looked at it but it kept hitting me in the face here in your thread and with the potential bleaching I have I looked into and I will say this much right now ..the tops showing bleaching where umm reaching their maximum absorption/growth rate after 6 hrs. of the 12 hr light cycle even with co2 enrichment. lol

So Thank you @Delps8 for being you and posting the details that you do !

The blurple was the cat's meow! I used mine for my 2017 grow but moved on to a Mars SP 3000 very quickly. How did you get from blurple to the lights you have now?

Ha the disco lights ..well first they where not all created equal and well the ones that i purchased showed great potential in veg but when it came to flower there was something off. One word Hibernation. I'm going to pm you a link that deals with me and the lights that I use today and that company and the term hibernation. If anyone reading this would like to see it please pm me.

I get that. A lot of us capture data during the course of our grows but "data from a controlled experiment" is a whole different beast. I've attached a paper re. lighting that helped me understand how growers can use light to improve their crops.

The attached paper provides the details of an experiment done to test changes in yield, potency, and photosynthesis under differing levels of lighting (right from the title - funny that!).

This study was done on light but the format would be the same for a study on O2. Check out the big pieces - the subject so the studied, an abstract (bottom line up front), the methods, the equipment, the data, the conclusions, and a summary (going from memory…). That's level of data is provided so that others can reproduce the experiment and publish their findings. If the results can be reproduced, the hypothesis moves toward being accepted by the research community. It's very detailed work that requires a lot of build out, a lot of man hours, and a lot of record keeping.

yes I wanted to collect data in regards to the DO content in relation to plant and root growth but a meter for that was like 6-700 at the time so I went off of my gut instinct. I actually looked at some today and I found one very reasonable that should do the trick actually under 100.00 that i plan on purchasing before the end of this grow or right after and i can show you different DO concentrations in my system with my current set up verses air stones. I have actually been curious of it myself since the modification. Who knows I may be able to downsize on the pump Hehe.

Yeh, I can put a hole in the tubing but I haven't had to do that so far. I get good RH across the canopy by tucking the hose in the left front corner of the tent and having the fan blow the mist into the tent. I'll see how things go with the T connector that's due in tomorrow. At the moment, I've disconnected the hose and the mist is going into the back of the fan and which is pushing it into the tent. I'm getting the new version of the fan this week which has a better waterproofing rating.

These are just variations on a theme with the objective being to be able to move Hugh off the floor which will get back some floor space I need to be able to get a second plant in there. That's something I'll take care of this summer and it will take a fair amount of work but it will result in me being able to create a stable VPD environment as well as a stable res. That's the goal.

gotcha

And in the back of my mind I'm thinking about what would be needed to build a grow "box" because if I can do that then I can run CO2!

sounds like its time for some 2x4's insulation , plywood and caulking lol .

Good info there. Looks like 1.2-1.4 will do fine.


I dropped five gallons and that got PPM down to 540/500 from 600/500. I'm not seeing any new burned tips, though. Six days ago, the res was at 700, then 720, so this change might not have been necessary but we'll know that pretty soon.

Re. res management - I started with adding back but switched to the top off approach. Works fine but it's so tempting to go back to just topping off with diluted nutes, so much I'm leaning in that direction. I got the skinny on topping off from this site but Bubgee does it a little differently, no surprise. If I recall correctly, they do tissue analysis and then adjust specific deficiencies but, overall, they fill up their res with a ⅓ strength mix. I'd love to be able to set up a float valve in the res and but I get the impression that will lead to issues. Any experience with that?

so today I found my sweet spot and its 470 remember my start point was almost 700. at 470 its taking up an equal amount of solution to water I'm excited ! Now in flower the ph. naturally drops with the uptake of P and in veg it naturally swings upward. Which leads me to your next question. I do have a float valve and top off tank and that is why its key to know the feed range you need . So now that I know that the sweet spot is 470 I can fill my tank with a solution of 470 and have the ph. greater than what's in the res and whala no ph up needed as the solution that replaces the used solution balances the res for me and i wont mess with it until it his 5.5 when it hits that I will simply open my drain valve and turn my waste pump on and pull out about 5 gallons and replace it with what I have in the top off tank and that should do me until its res change time.

 

[Delps8]

sounds like its time for some 2x4's insulation , plywood and caulking lol .

And I'm the guy who doesn't DIY, right?

I can build things but my only cutting surface is a folding workbench that I take outside. That means I've got to carry the materials, fasteners, and tools out back. The only flat surfaces are the trash can lids. It's really hokey but, yeh, I could do a lot of the work outside and then assemble and final fit in the garage.

Earlier I mentioned (I think) that the equipment board that Gorilla sells. They're on sale so I ordered two. I'm going to take some time to get rid of the extranseous stuff in the tent but the big issue is to get Hugh off the floor. The equipment boards will be here by the end of the week so I'll put some time into that project over the weekend.

so today I found my sweet spot and its 470 remember my start point was almost 700. at 470 its taking up an equal amount of solution to water I'm excited ! Now in flower the ph. naturally drops with the uptake of P and in veg it naturally swings upward. Which leads me to your next question. I do have a float valve and top off tank and that is why its key to know the feed range you need . So now that I know that the sweet spot is 470 I can fill my tank with a solution of 470 and have the ph. greater than what's in the res and whala no ph up needed as the solution that replaces the used solution balances the res for me and i wont mess with it until it his 5.5 when it hits that I will simply open my drain valve and turn my waste pump on and pull out about 5 gallons and replace it with what I have in the top off tank and that should do me until its res change time.

That's good news on filling the res. Sounds like it will really cut back on the res maintenance.

 

[No Pain]

And I'm the guy who doesn't DIY, right?

lol yes I know

I can build things but my only cutting surface is a folding workbench that I take outside. That means I've got to carry the materials, fasteners, and tools out back. The only flat surfaces are the trash can lids. It's really hokey but, yeh, I could do a lot of the work outside and then assemble and final fit in the garage.

If you figure out the dimensions that you want Home depot will cut the lumber and I want to say its free of charge .

Earlier I mentioned (I think) that the equipment board that Gorilla sells. They're on sale so I ordered two. I'm going to take some time to get rid of the extranseous stuff in the tent but the big issue is to get Hugh off the floor. The equipment boards will be here by the end of the week so I'll put some time into that project over the weekend.

yes you did sounds like a plan.

That's good news on filling the res. Sounds like it will really cut back on the res maintenance.

it does simply things quite a bit. I didn't start doing that until I got this system, and did it based on their recommendation and afterwards I was like what was I thinking all of this time. lol

 

[Delps8]

lol yes I know

If you figure out the dimensions that you want Home depot will cut the lumber and I want to say its free of charge .

Yes, they'll cut at no charge here, too, but, if I were to build it, I'd just take everything "out back" and be done with it. I've got the basic electrical tools but that's a far cry from what I'd want to use. I went to school overseas (I'm an immigrant, BTW) and we had no electrical tools in our woodworking shop. Everything was done by hand so I have more experience with, say, a dovetail saw than with a circular saw.

If I were to build my own grow box/room, I'd probably do a total re-think.It might be possible to cram all that into a 2' x 4' space but, if I were to make that level of commitment, I would think I'd want at least a 4' x 4' and maybe even a 4' x 8' space along the long wall of the garage. California law is four plants but no mention on the size of those plants.

it does simply things quite a bit. I didn't start doing that until I got this system, and did it based on their recommendation and afterwards I was like what was I thinking all of this time. lol

Lots of advantages to the KISS principle. And it's even better that it makes a big chore really easy.

 

[No Pain]

Yes, they'll cut at no charge here, too, but, if I were to build it, I'd just take everything "out back" and be done with it. I've got the basic electrical tools but that's a far cry from what I'd want to use. I went to school overseas (I'm an immigrant, BTW) and we had no electrical tools in our woodworking shop. Everything was done by hand so I have more experience with, say, a dovetail saw than with a circular saw.

If I were to build my own grow box/room, I'd probably do a total re-think.It might be possible to cram all that into a 2' x 4' space but, if I were to make that level of commitment, I would think I'd want at least a 4' x 4' and maybe even a 4' x 8' space along the long wall of the garage.

I say if you are going for a change and do decide to build your own focus on doing it one time. I have no doubt that you have the ability to use a hammer and nails or a screw gun and screws

California law is four plants but no mention on the size of those plants.

sounds like a 4x8 to me

Lots of advantages to the KISS principle. And it's even better that it makes a big chore really easy.

I love it !

 

[Delps8]

16 days into flower and cruising right along.

Swapping out 5 gallons of nutes brought PPM from 620'ish to 570. The plant drank about 0.7 gallons overnight and topping off took the res to 510/500. I'm hoping/expecting to see good water uptake from now on.

pH did not move for a few days so switched the doser to monitor. It hasn't dropped any, so that part of flower is over, so I should start seeing the typical gradual rise in pH that comes with water/nutrient uptake.

And, sure enough, the doser is up to 5.9, from 5.8, and the monitor has gone from 5.7 to 5.8. Those values are different, yup, and both devices were calibrated to 7 and 4. Right after I calibrated them, I dropped them in the res and they read…5.8 and 5.7.

Controlling VPD is a big issue and I've managed to come up with a few options. As of yesterday, the humidifier is under the fan so the fan is blowing the mist over the canopy and it's worked out very well. So, that means I need to change it right?

Not. A. Chance.

It's a great configuration for these temps and, the only change I foresee is to swap in the new version of the fan. The new version will handle the water vapor better than the current model and it also has settings for 10 "wind modes" which mimic a natural breeze. I won't complain about the latter but I like the idea that the mist probably won't pooch the fan.

So, more incremental changes but I'm getting really close to my goal of having a very "hands off "grow.

Per above, decent water intake, pH is rising, and PPM is flickering down.

I increased the hang height to about 14" and it's running at 330 watts. When I took the first set of readings I didn't like the back left to right front "gradient" so I leaned the net pot forward and took another set of light readings.

Check two sets of data. The second set are how things are running in the tent now.

Lots of buds, coming along nicely.

 

[Delps8]

I say if you are going for a change and do decide to build your own focus on doing it one time. I have no doubt that you have the ability to use a hammer and nails or a screw gun and screws

Pointy end toward the front, right? yeh, with a box that size, it's studs and OSB board?
What I'm not clear on is how to make, say, a 4' x 8' "sealed" so that I can run CO2. How do you seal your grow room//what is the air source and how do you control air exchange?

sounds like a 4x8 to me

I love it !

It would be an interesting project, no question, but it's a significant commitment. Sure, I can build it out but what would I do with all of that weed?

 

[No Pain]

Pointy end toward the front, right? yeh, with a box that size, it's studs and OSB board?
What I'm not clear on is how to make, say, a 4' x 8' "sealed" so that I can run CO2. How do you seal your grow room//what is the air source and how do you control air exchange?

yes 2x4 and osb frame it cover the put all the walls/ceiling and then apply caulking to the seams even around the floor as far as air exchange if you had any it would be a lights out but its not needed its all recirculating plants take in the co2 give off oxygen the controller dumps more co2 and the process repeats. if you where to vent at lights out it would be a filter/fan and duct leading to the outside located on the floor and a pressure regulated intake duct at the ceiling level on the opposite side. as far as air movement on the inside for that size room it would be a fan. You would need to locate your air pump on the exterior of the room in that tight of an environment so its only drawing in fresh air and doesn't dump co2 into your solution as that can cause an acid rain affect. you would also need a small a/c unit to regulate temps and a humidifier and dehumidifier to aid in regulating rh . if you do not seal at minimum from the utmost top of what you feel is going to be your finishing plant height or the top level in the room that you want to co2 to remain consistent it will leak out as it is heavier than air.

It would be an interesting project, no question, but it's a significant commitment. Sure, I can build it out but what would I do with all of that weed?

I Give my excess to people dealing with cancer. I have seen truly amazing things from this plant. other than that its grove bags and storage bins. I'm certain you can figure out something to do with it .ha I have stuff in jars going back over two-three years .

 

[gwhunran]

Enjoying the thread. Those sheets of wood are 4x8, so if you have the room make it 8' tall and give yourself more room to work with, and cut down on your sawing.
I grow way more than I can smoke and have found that I can press rosin and put most of it in the freezer for long term storage. I've got some over two years old now and it's good as the day it was pressed.

 

[Delps8]

Enjoying the thread. Those sheets of wood are 4x8, so if you have the room make it 8' tall and give yourself more room to work with, and cut down on your sawing.

"sawing" - oh, I fondly remember cutting things by hand but that was furniture making, not building out with studs and plywood! Battery powered tools are just the ticket for that. Zip, zip, zip, and it's done.

The biggest annoyance for where I am now is lack of a work bench. It's really amazing how something that's so commonplace is so inconvenient when you don't have it (which is why it's "commonplace, right?). The solution is to make a workspace in the garage but the cost/benefit isn't there because I don't have an ongoing need it. Sorta frustrating but it's one of the tradeoffs that you make when you choose a place to live.

I grow way more than I can smoke and have found that I can press rosin and put most of it in the freezer for long term storage. I've got some over two years old now and it's good as the day it was pressed.

Never went the rosin route. In fact, I've gotten away from vaping recently so I've gone through a lot of inventory. The last bag I opened is from early '22 but it's bud so I suspect the shelf life is coming to an end.

This is from a grow in 2022. I've got 1 ½ bags, so maybe 6 oz left.

Rosin = decarbing and then pressing it? What's your setup like for that?

Also, your bike…is that a Yamaha shaftie?

 

[Delps8]

The word for the day is "enervated". About 10 AM on Monday, it felt like I was "powering down". A bit light headed and lethargic. I got in to see a doctor yesterday and am on antibiotics so I think I've nipped it in the bud, so to speak.

I'm feeling poorly enough to not work but am feeling good enough so I feel somewhat guilty for not working.

So, I'm sucking wind, how are the plants doing? Mahvelous, dahling, just mahvelous.

I think the worst of the tip burn is over but I dropped 2 more gallons just to make sure. A couple of days ago, I put the doser in monitor mode and, sure enough, pH gradually rose, and hit 6.0 this AM but I'll add some Down to get back to 5.8.

Good water consumption at 0.6 gallons. That's pretty much in line with expectations. Just took the screenshot below. And then I zipped up the tent flaps.

She's now growing vertically pretty quickly so she's growing into the light a bit. The first set of readings:

Those values are just a hair over high end of the vaunted light saturation point for cannabis (800-1kµmol) but the leaves were praying.

Conventional wisdom says that's a really happy plant. Not going to argue about that - I've said that myself in fact - but I also have come to believe that the reason why plants pray is that the plant is getting so much light that hormones in the leaves are moving to the shaded side of the leaf to get out of the light stream. That reduces the number of photons the leaf is receiving and it would do that if the light levels were on the cusp of being too high. It looks really cool ("Wow, dude, beautiful plant.") but I sincerely believe it's right on the edge of being an "oops".

After dropping the wattage from 330 to 293 and the numbers look a lot better. Still a good amount of light but have stepped back from possibly damaging the plant.

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• Mar 6, 2024

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