Flipping into flowering from veg

[Verbalist]

Hey mag!

I’ve read several tut’s/guides about flipping or more likely ”forcing” the plants to flower by keeping them in complete darkness for around 24-48hrs.

theres a lot speculation about this method. Since the oldest ones I found were from like 5 years ago. So is there still any scientist info about it, do the darkness actually force them to start flowering faster than just switching 12/12 lights?

Based on my own experience I tried this on my last grow. Kept them 36hrs dark, and cant really tell if it speeded up the thing.
whats your opinions? Most will say nature wont give plants complete darkness for example 36hrs, so NO...but nature either doesnt use hydros or any other fine ass growing methods.

If somebody regurally using this method could you please provide more information and actual results?

 

[Paul Squiggle]

Hey mag!

I’ve read several tut’s/guides about flipping or more likely ”forcing” the plants to flower by keeping them in complete darkness for around 24-48hrs.

theres a lot speculation about this method. Since the oldest ones I found were from like 5 years ago. So is there still any scientist info about it, do the darkness actually force them to start flowering faster than just switching 12/12 lights?

Based on my own experience I tried this on my last grow. Kept them 36hrs dark, and cant really tell if it speeded up the thing.
whats your opinions? Most will say nature wont give plants complete darkness for example 36hrs, so NO...but nature either doesnt use hydros or any other fine ass growing methods.

If somebody regurally using this method could you please provide more information and actual results?

I've tried the same method and had no noticeable difference. But that's just from my experience. A lot of growers swear by that method and it works for them. It could be strain dependent. But if there was a vote on it. I would put my X in the nope section.
I've always thought that they are loosing 2 days of light doing that method. How can you get that time back? I could be totally wrong, but I'm just going off what I've experienced

 

[Verbalist]

I've tried the same method and had no noticeable difference. But that's just from my experience. A lot of growers swear by that method and it works for them. It could be strain dependent. But if there was a vote on it. I would put my X in the nope section.
I've always thought that they are loosing 2 days of light doing that method. How can you get that time back? I could be totally wrong, but I'm just going off what I've experienced

I understand your point of view.

Remember something I read about the plants photosynthesis and dark perioids: they generate *something* (can’t remember what was that) during the night. And letting them sit in dark for at least 24hrs they’ve enough time to produce/metabolize this thing which should trigger the flowering faster.

And ye this is just something that Ive read, probs not an actual facts..

 

[Paul Squiggle]

It would be good to know the science behind the method. If there is any.I've got that cannabis grow Bible. I will see if it says anything in there. It's a hive of information..

 

[Verbalist]

Cool!

hmu here if you find anything interesting regarding this method.
Would love to hear some actual facts about this thing. And if the facts can be proven, then even cooler would be if any1 has gathered examples to show the differences between this and the ”normal” method.

 

[Paul Squiggle]

Nope. Nothing mentioned in there. What I intend to do on this grow is gradually reduce the hours of light over a period of a few weeks. Just to mimic nature. I know a few growers also do that. That makes more sense to me. But I have not tried this method yet. So who knows..

 

[bluter]

did this yrs ago a few times with hps and couldn't tell you if it actually did anything.
what i can say is it was often used on strains known to be slow going in to the flip, and it saved some power.

there were a lot more clones being grown then, you kind of got used to how the strain grew. now there's a lot more access to seed.

nowadays i go with a diminishing schedule instead. 12/12 - 11/13 - 10/14. it gets stuff moving pretty easy, and promotes an earlier finish without a weight reduction.

i also go way big in lighting. i run led now but even under hps. anything will flip in big lighting because the plant gets enough when it is daytime. i run a good third over what is 'recommended' in flower for the space.

 

[Verbalist]

Nope. Nothing mentioned in there. What I intend to do on this grow is gradually reduce the hours of light over a period of a few weeks. Just to mimic nature. I know a few growers also do that. That makes more sense to me. But I have not tried this method yet. So who knows..

sad to hear.
But yeah my actual plan was also to mimic the nature with the lighting: first week 22/2, second week 20/4, 3rd week 18/6 and on 4th week most likely add one extra hour of darkness every day, starting from 6hrs darkness untill it hits 12hrs of darkness.
...but this method got me interested once again and wanted to discuss about it, hoping there would be some scientific facts regarding.

 

[bluter]

sad to hear.
But yeah my actual plan was also to mimic the nature with the lighting: first week 22/2, second week 20/4, 3rd week 18/6 and on 4th week most likely add one extra hour of darkness every day, starting from 6hrs darkness untill it hits 12hrs of darkness.
...but this method got me interested once again and wanted to discuss about it, hoping there would be some scientific facts regarding.

diminishing schedules work if you have the intensity.
if you don't have the power, then you don't have the power. taking more away won't help the cause.

 

[Paul Squiggle]

diminishing schedules work if you have the intensity.
if you don't have the power, then you don't have the power. taking more away won't help the cause.

That makes sense. Nice one

 

[SmokingWings]

I understand your point of view.

Remember something I read about the plants photosynthesis and dark perioids: they generate *something* (can’t remember what was that) during the night. And letting them sit in dark for at least 24hrs they’ve enough time to produce/metabolize this thing which should trigger the flowering faster.

And ye this is just something that Ive read, probs not an actual facts..

Yes, it is a very real thing.

Basically, the plant is constantly producing two hormones in the growth tip area. One is a hormone that promotes leaf, root and stem growth. The other is a hormone that promotes. flowering. When the length of light drops below the amount of time needed to produce the growth hormone the flowering hormone becomes dominant in the tips and changes start to take place. After several weeks of "stretch" the flowers start to form at the nodes. Also, the growing space in between the nodes is reduced leading to those dense buds stacking up.

Under artificial light the length of dark is a minimum of 12 constant hours. An interruption in this dark period will cause the flowering hormone production to drop and production of the normal growth hormone increases again. That is why most artificial light growers go for a minimum of a 12 hour dark cycle. The plant will handle an interruption of minutes without any problem. But, an interruption of about an hour or more and the 12 hours of darkness has to start over. Some growers will use the "Gas Lantern Routine" to break up the dark cycle to keep the plant from flowering and at the same time allowing for shorter lengths of time that all the lights are on and reducing electric costs. The brief period of 'lights on' does not have to be full strength lighting. Half or even 1/4 of the normal lighting level should be more than enough to break the flowering hormone production cycle.

 

[013]

it’s a great subject with superior intel from all

no hard facts just captain obvious here contrasting difference between going into flower and forcing flower….. but as we know a sexually mature plant will flip faster.

Stumbled on it written this way and prolly old wives ditty but….…. make sure it’s in full blossom - before you try to bloom.

Most of us are running white leds anyway but wonder if more blue in veg gets you to staggered nodes faster since they are tighter?

 

[Verbalist]

it’s a great subject with superior intel from all

no hard facts just captain obvious here contrasting difference between going into flower and forcing flower….. but as we know a sexually mature plant will flip faster.

Stumbled on it written this way and prolly old wives ditty but….…. make sure it’s in full blossom - before you try to bloom.

Most of us are running white leds anyway but wonder if more blue in veg gets you to staggered nodes faster since they are tighter?

Yup color temps of the lighting matters for sure. At least on the veg stage = more blue-ish light produced bigger and stronger fan leaves.
Then the red light should be good for the flowering hormones.

Had 125w CFL (6400K which is actually good color temp for the vegging plant) and 45w led bulb 4000K ”balanced”, but switched to the 250W HPS at the end of the 2nd week.
The HPS lamp is
Super Plant 250w - 34000lm & 2100K which produces very reddish light and first thought that may not be the best opinion for that young vegging plant….but growth just sped up and I think thats plainly just because now theres 10x more lumen’s

 

[Verbalist]

Yup color temps of the lighting matters for sure. At least on the veg stage = more blue-ish light produced bigger and stronger fan leaves.
Then the red light should be good for the flowering hormones.

Had 125w CFL (6400K which is actually good color temp for the vegging plant) and 45w led bulb 4000K ”balanced”, but switched to the 250W HPS at the end of the 2nd week.
The HPS lamp is
Super Plant 250w - 34000lm & 2100K which produces very reddish light and first thought that may not be the best opinion for that young vegging plant….but growth just sped up and I think thats plainly just because now theres 10x more lumen’s

Continuing myself. Prob yes switching to more powerful and more reddish lamp when flipping them into flowering has a part to play as well.
But did I get it wrong? I assumed the plant generates the hormones for flowering during the dark perioid, right?
So during the intensive photosynthesis plant ”stores” the light and during the night produces the buds(?) Plant does not generate buds plainly by power of the light.

So if Im correct above here, doesnt it make sense that before forcing them to flower you give them very intensive light perioid then give them complete darkness more than 12hrs to make sure the plant ”understands” whats next and triggers the flowering?
just by switching to 12/12 lights it takes longer for plant to understand that ”the autumn” is comming.

does this speculation make any sense?

 

[bluter]

not really.

a lot of grows run 12/12 from the start. there is no 18/6 veg period or extended dark before flip. the plants are forced into flower as soon as they are mature enough. there is zero relevance to an extended dark period before flip in this scenario.

 

[bobrown14]

I guess my reply to this question is:

What is the goal by doing this light DEP thing??

If its faster flowering time - lets look at what actually causes flowering from a scientific angle and see if light dep helps with your goal.

My next question is:

Why the hurry?

 

[Emilya Green]

I have tried this several times on strains that I had grown out before, so I knew what to expect. Giving them darkness for 24 hours prior to turning on the 12/12 timing does seem to affect the transition to bloom, and plants given the 24 hours of darkness tend to convert over to bloom mode about 2 days faster than plants just switched to 12/12 without the darkness. So, it is 2 days less of transition period along with the cutting out of one 12 hour day of vegging daylight, vs just keeping the light going. I agree with Bob and have realized that at this point I am not in a hurry, and I would rather give the plant the light it needs to grow rather than playing tricks on it and losing 12 hours of light that the plant could have enjoyed.

 

[bobrown14]

My gut is that light dep is a form of abiotic stress. So nothing I wanna risk at beginning of flower.

There are other proven methods to speed up flowering and increase trichomes without any losses in yields. Not that yields are a primary goal for me. I prefer quality over quantity.

The quantity thing usually works itself out.

 

[SmokingWings]

So if Im correct above here, doesnt it make sense that before forcing them to flower you give them very intensive light perioid then give them complete darkness more than 12hrs to make sure the plant ”understands” whats next and triggers the flowering?
just by switching to 12/12 lights it takes longer for plant to understand that ”the autumn” is comming.

does this speculation make any sense?

I understand what you are saying and it is an interesting question but I think it is over-reacting.

As @bobrown14, @Emilya and @bluter seem to be saying, the extended dark period at the beginning of flowering is probably not worth the loss of the one or two 12 hour sessions of light and the photosynthesis is helpful in supplying the nutrition that the plant needs. This is why so many long time growers recommend the best and strongest lights for flowering. The plant can get by and just about any ol' grow light in the vegetative stage but more light is better once the switch to flowering starts.

 

[Verbalist]

I guess my reply to this question is:

What is the goal by doing this light DEP thing??

If its faster flowering time - lets look at what actually causes flowering from a scientific angle and see if light dep helps with your goal.

My next question is:

Why the hurry?

No it doesnt make your whole flowering time any shorter or doesnt speed up the flowering.
as I mentioned it was an interesting thing imo, which had been speculated a lot if it TRIGGERS the flowering faster than just turning into 12/12 cycle.

and yeah I get the pros and cons of both method and losing 2 days light is very true.. even tho darkness would speed up the flowering maybe its not worth to loose 2 days of photosynthesis.

If we think hypothetically that im running 18/6 lights and my dark perioids mostly hits for the day time and when switching into 12/12 lets say I would like to keep my lights on during the day time and lights off during the night. Should i keep them in darkness for a period time (lets say from 8pm to next morning 10am) and then turn the lights on at 10am if I just want to adjust my lighting schedule?

Is there possibilities for plant to freak by doing so?