First Grow! - Aerogarden Ultra With Mars Reflector 48 Using CK Dwarf Low Flyer

[Renegade69]

CM, those side shoot pics are nice. You said this stain is "Crop King's Dwarf Auto Low Flyer"? Side shoots at this early stage? Nice... You should begin to think about training if any. Are you going to just let her grow or train out a bit? With auto's she'll bloom on her own. What's the time frame for blooming?

Obtw....5.8 is ideal. There is a range and as long as you stay within that range your good. I usually don't mess with it as long as it was between 5.6 to 6.0. With that chart you can see what nutrients are being absorbed at each level. Early plants may need more of one then the other so levels high or low are not be exactly bad....sorta...LOL.

Checkin in, Checkin out....

Everything looks great.

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Day 15 update: 15 days from seed and 12.5 days above ground. Morning temp was 71F and humidity at 52%. Temp tonight is 77F and 52% humidity. PH this morning was 6.0 and I dropped it down to 5.5 and PPMs at 65-70, which makes me think some nutes were consumed. PH when I got home 5.7. Kept in a much tighter range today with the low PPM.

Tonight, I added in a 1/3 dose of Sensi Grow A+B to bring PPM up to 250 and a 1/2 dose of voodoo juice. No cal/mag or anything else. Lower leaves on plant #1 look like they're going to get the pinch tomorrow, don't think they'll make it and best to conserve energy for the growing parts of the plant. The 2nd and 3rd sets of leaves on that plant look good. More growth today on both plants. Plant #2 seems to have made a recovery. All leaves on #2 are pointed up towards the light and looking cheery. 4tg set of leaves is waiting to unfurl on both plants. They're getting a very light indirect breeze, just enough move the leaves up and down about 1/8".

The lower leaf issue was certainly disconcerting. It's been a very stressful couple of days. RTK - your suggestion was good and it was my fault for not reading up more on the cal-mag. The plants most likely did need nutes, the cal-mag was possibly locking it out or shocking the plant at this young stage. I appreciate any and all suggestions, because it usually ends up leading me to doing more research - and I definitely need to keep with it on that front.

Thanks to you all for sticking along and providing feedback and encouragement. Now, onward with the pics!

Plant #1 above ground and below

Plant #2 above ground and below

And for scale

 

[420forsure]

Getting big fast!

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Day 16 update: 16 days from seed and 13.5 days above ground. Morning temp was 71F with 52% humidity. Night temp is at 79F with 51% humidity. PH in the morning was 5.7 - did not adjust - and PH tonight was 5.9. I dropped it down to 5.6. PPM's are down to between 225 and 230, which means that the girls ARE eating. Sucked in about 25ppm (10% of the nute solution). When I checked last night, they were at 250ppm, so I take this as a good sign.

I did pinch off the lower set of leaves from plant #1, made sure to clamp down good to seal the stub of the branch off and prevent moisture/nute loss. I may have to trim off the leaf from the send set that's looking sad - it's tip is drooping down. The leaf is still full, but has a lot of that spotting on it, it's the center leaf from the 3-prong set that appears closest to the wall in the pictures. I'll assess that situation in the morning and pinch the center leaf, if needed. Lots of new growth today, especially on plant #2 which is really spreading its wings. Plant #1 mainly had vertical growth today, although the third set of leaves is stretching out nicely and gaining size, 4th set is coming in nicely. Definitely in "veg" mode right now. Roots look great on both plants.

If all goes well for the rest of this weekend, I may bump nutes up to 300 but only using the base nutes (sensi A + B). Now, for the pics!


Plant #1 above ground and below

Plant #2 above ground and below

And for some scale...

 

[arteekay]

Things are looking up bud.

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Day 17 update: 17 days from seed and 14.5 days above ground. This should be the 25% mark today. Hope I make it the other 75%! Morning temp was 71F with humidity at 60%. Temp tonight is 78F with humidity at 65%. PH in the morning was 5.9, dropped it to 5.6. Night PH is 5.6. PPM is reading between 215 and 230. The second set of leaves on plant #1 is now showing the brown/orange/yellow spots, but growth is still coming along. If they get much worse, they may have to get pinched tomorrow. Plant #2 is looking good. It has some very light spotting on the first and second set of leaves, but it seems to not be as bothered by it. Haven't pinched any leaves off of plant #2. Roots look good on both. 24x48x60 grow tent is on the way, will order the fan and filter sometime this week.


Plant #1 above ground and below

Plant #2 above ground and below

And for scale....

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Day 18 update: 18 days from seed and 15.5 days above ground. Morning temp was 71F with humidity at 63%. Temp tonight is 77F with 56% humidity. PH this morning was 5.6 and PPM was 205. The second set of leaves on plant #1 looked awful, I decided that I'd pinch that set when I got home later today. Growth up top and leaves up top looked green and happy. Plant #2 looked great.
When I got home I did pinch off the 2nd set of leaves on plant #1, the necrosis carried it's way to the full 3 leaves on each side. Leaves above look OK, bud sites growing from nodes look great and bigger than yesterday. I also pinched off the first set of leaves on plant #2, they were totally covered by the 3rd set and getting zero light.
Frustrated with the progression of the sickness, I sad down for about 2 hours and read through a wide range of hydro journals and also troubleshooting articles. After looking at the onset of this and the progression - and advice from a few folks - I've determined that my PH has been too high for this stage of veg. Lack of nitrogen or phosphorous may be the culprit here. I did a flush with flawless finish for 2 hours and then added in water PH'd to 5.8 and PPM of the water is at 310. I used a 1/4 dose of Sensi Grow A, 1/4 dose of Sensi Grow B and 1/4 dose of B52. No cal/mag or anything else.
Several articles I read said that during veg, ideal PH range is 5.8-6.0. Going to give it a try, not much to lose at this point with regard to plant #1.


Plant #1 above ground and below

Plant #2 above ground and below

And for scale....

 

[Renegade69]

It's hard to tell a proud poppa to relax so i'll just stop there...LOL.

Your making adjustments daily and reaching out to other SME's daily. My problem would be doing too much. Yes, you've got to get that PH in check. But like I said earlier, don't make a bunch of changes all at once. You've identified a deficiency of some sort so I would move on to that after the PH.

PH being the causal effect on everything else. The earlier graph shows what nutrients are being taken up between 5.8-6.0, so it makes sense that the issues may....and I do say may....be a reason here. Especially if your PH is well above 6.0...

I used GH's nutrients on my AG grow before switching to AN'S PH balanced. I'm pretty sure I adjusted daily. And I believe I started it low to make up for the spike. At this point I'm assuming it climbs instead of drops. At the next change out try starting at 5.6 or so. It's hard to gauge because I'm not familiar with the nutrients your using. Maybe only use the GMB for the first week or so till she's well established. I did my res change out once a week, usually on the weekend.

Another thought just came to mind....your top off tank. What are you putting in there? This may also be a causal effect on the PH spike. I didn't have a top off and had to do a put back/top off every other day. And would only do it when the PH dropped.

Also, are you adding PH UP/DN directly to the res? Stop that...LOL. Small amounts at time to a cup of water. Get that to your desired level then add it to the res. Wait a few mins to check the res levels and repeat if necessary.

Let's take your mind off that for a moment and ask about the res temps? Holding steady at 68-70? Equally important since the plant is taking up nutrients...good or bad...too little or too much she's feeding.

And the new growth tells me she's doing fine. I like the new growth.

One last bit of advise. Remember, every time you pinch off a leaf your stressing the plant. She needs time to recoup. I won't argue about wanting to get rid of the bad leafs but try and spread out the nipping.

And lastly....I promise. The plant feeds thru her leaves. Initially leave as much of them as you can. Till they begin to block lower growth.

And I did all this with a clear and sober mind....LMAO.

I really hope it helps.

And please by god someone else chime in here to keep me honest....

 

[Heraldo]

I'd say renegade nailed it. Very wise words IMO.
All I can add is try giving them names. Maybe they feel like they're being treated like lab rats and have lost the will to live...
Nah, despite the spots they're still growing pretty quickly.
And I'd say don't pinch the leaves off at all (at least until the problem is solved). Let them take a hit for the team.

 

[420forsure]

Yes. Any time you stress a plant you risk stunting it. And you don't want to do that with autos. That's why in soil you always want to plant in just one pot for its life time. That spots on your leaves will never go away. And they were getting larger because your leaves were growing. That spots are going to grow too. When my leaves completely die I remove. No pinching just a slight poll. I then put it in the pot and hope that the decomposition of the leaf only benifits the soil I'm growing in. Really don't want leaves in my trash can.

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Thanks for all of the input, folks! There was a day or two gap in pinching the #1 and #2 set of leaves on plant #1 - they were totally dead, all 3 leaves on each side of the #2 set. Brown, dry and necrotic. In reality, plant #1 may not make it. The 3rd set of leaves has spots too, but they aren't spreading nearly as fast as on set #1 and set #2. The new growth looks good, the bud sites and the new leaves coming up. However, I still think something is up. Maybe it could have to do with it's proximity to the chiller, but I doubt that.
Plant #2 looks great. So bizarre that one plant could be doing fine while another is bombing all, and both are using the same reservoir.

With regard to PH adjustments, I have a cup of water to the left of the Aerogarden that has a few drops of PH down in it. Usually, 10 CC's of this water into the reservoir will bump my PH down by .1. When I do the adjustment, I do it drop by drop so it takes about a minute to get the full 10cc into the reservoir. I hope that this decreased the chance of PH shock to the plants. I took a minimalist approach this morning. PH was at 5.9 this morning and I left it as-is, same PH level when I got home. I'm going to keep my range from 5.8-6.0 instead of 5.5-5.7.

Far left leaf on set #2 of leaves on plant #2 has rotated almost 80 degrees to maybe pick up light reflecting from the wall? In the morning it's flat, at night it's flat. Just doing a weird rotation of the leaf during daytime.

Full update coming tonight.

 

[420forsure]

Both your plants will turn out fine. Iv seen people have to tape up their main stem because they dropped their light on it and the plant still grew! So don't worry to much!

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Day 19 update: 19 days from seed. 17 days above ground. Morning temp was 73F with 63% humidity. As stated earlier, PH was 5.9 and has stayed there all day. PPM has decreased from about 310 down to 290. Trying to stay hands off with res adjustments for the time being in order to try and get some balance in things. I did add one the 36w taotronics lights in to hit plant #1 from a 45 degree downward angle directly in front of it. It's really lighting up the small leaves at the growing bud sites well. Hopefully this will help, even if slightly, to offset the loss of those 2 lower sets of leaves. The browning on the 3rd set of leaves is evident. Going to see what happens, though.
Plant #2 is doing great, growth is very impressive. Both plants are about 6" tall now. 5th set of leaves is coming up on both plants. Roots looks much better on #2 than on #1. The roots are really rocking and rolling on #2 and have definitely outpaced the growth of roots on #1. Roots look healthy and white on both, no slime.


Plant #1 above ground and below......

Plant #2 above ground and below

And for scale....

 

[Ferboldt]

They are beautiful...

But I don't understand why your PH is rising every day. In my previous grow I needed to adjust my PH like every 3 days and it was going up from 5.6 to 5.7 or something. That's interesting.

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Day 20 update: 20 days from seed and 18 days above ground. Morning temp was 73F and humidity at 61%, PH at 6.0 so I dropped down to 5.8. PPM was at 275. Temp tonight is 75F with humidity at 55%. PH is at 5.9. PPM is down to 250. So, PPM has gone from 310 down to 250 in 2 days. That makes me happy. PH has been in much tighter ranges, naturally, for the last 2 days. Daily drift has been about .1, all in the upward direction. I did bump the chiller temp up to 70.5F from 69F.

The spotting on plant #1 has slowed. Both leaves from the third set are showing the spots, but the spread has slowed significantly. At its worse, the ailment was eating up a set of leaves almost every day. I think phosphorous may have been locked out due to a low PH. The charts show that at 5.5 the plants aren't getting any. From my understanding, it's too late to correct the damage to the old growth, but hopefully the new growth will be fine on plant #1.

Plant #2 is looking great. They're growing so much every day, it's truly amazing to watch. I'm glad I've been documenting this the way that I have, it's been very educational.

In future grows, plants will be named. I know that this journal comes across as dry/scientific, like a science experiment report. But, that's exactly what it is for me. I'm learning something new every day. I've been charting all of these metrics and I already know that there are so many things I'll do differently on the next grow. I do like the Aerogarden, it's nice having everything built into one unit with a controller. When it comes time to bust out some of my different autoflowering strains (non dwarfs) I'm optimistic that there will be fewer hiccups and much less second-guessing myself.


Plant #1 above ground and below

Plant #2 above ground and below

And for scale.............

 

[CMJJMC2000]

They are beautiful...

But I don't understand why your PH is rising every day. In my previous grow I needed to adjust my PH like every 3 days and it was going up from 5.6 to 5.7 or something. That's interesting.

I'm not sure either, from what I've read, stressed plants can cause PH fluctuations on there own. This may have been the case, because PH swings from 5.5 to 6.1 in a 12 hour period are quite extreme. For the last 2 days, since flawless finish flush, the PH has only been drifting by about .1 per 12 hours. Now, since I can see PPM's dropping fairly quickly, it should be safe to say that the PH rising is due to the PPM's going down. As acidic nutes are pulled from the water column, the remaining solution is becoming more basic.

 

[420forsure]

Are you using ice to cool the res? The melting ic could result in a ph change if your ice melting is getting enough vapor in your res. Just an idea.

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Are you using ice to cool the res? The melting ic could result in a ph change if your ice melting is getting enough vapor in your res. Just an idea.

I'm using a cool works IceProbe chiller - it's a 50w chiller. If you look at the root pictures on plant 1 you can see it in the foreground sticking up from the bottom.

 

[CMJJMC2000]

Day 21 update; 21 days from seed and 19 days above ground. 3 weeks since the journey began! Morning temp was 73 with humidity at 62%, PH was 5.9 and I left it as-is. Temp tonight is 77F with humidity at 56%. PH was 6.0 so I dropped it down to 5.8. PPM is at 210 today! These dwarfs are sucking down some nutes, pulled in 40ppm since last night. The spotting on plant #1 is still slowly progressing. Per advice, I will leave these alone until they fall off on their own. The spots are looking necrotic.........

All new growth on plant #1 looks good and is coming in quickly. Daily growth is noticeable, especially at the nodes.

Plant #2 is continuing to kick ass. The orange spots it did receive on the lowest set of leaves has not gotten any larger at all. Growth on this plant is happening very quickly. Plants look like they're about half an inch taller than yesterday, maybe more.



Plant #1 above ground and below...

Plant #2 above ground and below....

And for scale......

 

[Renegade69]

Looking real good now.

Now it's time to think about clipping the very bottom leafs. Especially the ones that are shading the new growth. You want as much light hitting them as the tops. Not too much jus enough to give the lower shoots some light.

And it's def safe to cut those sick leaves...the bottom ones...