Derbybud
Well-Known Member
Look up grandpa token. He has a good thread going with lots of interest.
Dutchman's Rosin Room!
- Thread starter Dutchman1990
- Start date
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Yes sir, still uhhh Kickin! and still figuring things out. You know me, I asked about testing cause I want solid facts but right now I would be willing to work with an educated guess based upon experience. I am not in the position to test right now either. But if there are no known answers, I may arrange something from afar.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, maybe I should look at a dab under the 60x. There may be some answers there.Squish it!
I’ve thought a lot about sending some to get tested, but I haven’t made the effort. I’d like to know the exact composition myself. I will look into it further though.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
My background thus far is with EVOO & Coconut oil extractions. New to solventless. So, I have catching up to do on the empirical side of squishing. I simply have some basic facts to get straight. I was asking about estimating potency % based upon yield...In that frame, say for instance the following example: Im sure trim has a low thc content and when you press it you would get a low yield ( I dont have trim, not a grower. so hearsay). That leads me to believe there is a direct correlation between yield & potency- a guess...80-90% canna goodies. if this is not going in the right direction, then we are left with the following senerao > oil from say, trim, would be less potent. maybe 40% instead of 70%. That would imply more empty carrier sap or whatever we call the oil of the plant. OR, is the sap nothing but tricombe juice & therefore close to all being cannabinoids & terps. If that is true, then the yield is approximately the strength. If that is the case, then rosin from trim would be just as potent as bud....just less yield. One of those statements has to be close to true. Clear as mud??? I couldn't find an easier way to say this.
I just dealt with a lab in San Francisco that I just mailed my oil to (in capsules) via the good old USPS. Anresco was its name and its website was just the name and .com.
$75 for the cannabinoid test.
Good read here. It’s 3 years old, but I would imagine we’re still in this ballpark:
“Rosin averaged with an average THCTOTAL content of 76 percent. For comparison, other non-solvent hashes (bubble or dry-sift) from the same Cups average at 69 percent THCTOTAL, while BHO dabs averaged at 75 percent.”
It’s a good discussion. In my experience yield has little to do with potency, given all other variables are equal or at least similar. However, there are so many variables: genetics, environment, medium, lighting, even down to the grower/caretaker. Older bud can reduce return percentages, but doesn’t necessarily mean the potency of the rosin is less. We know that potency will reduce over time because THC degrades, but it’s not a lot in my experience. Although, I’ve not kept rosin around for extreme long periods...it seems to disappear.
I’ve turned some mediocre bud into some decent rosin, but if the starting material is stellar then the rosin will be stellar as well. Guaranteed.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
"In my experience yield has little to do with potency, given all other variables are equal or at least similar. However, there are so many variables: genetics, environment, medium, lighting, even down to the grower/caretaker. Older bud can reduce return percentages, but doesn’t necessarily mean the potency of the rosin is less."
Thanks Tokin. With all those things being equal....lets say you use the same plant for making rosin out of the buds and separately rosin out of the trim. In your experience, is the rosin from the trim a lower potency than from the buds? Or, is it just as strong but just less yield? We need to know this, well for a lot of reasons. I'm sure this is a known answer. A lab tech would know or any Co. that makes rosin legitimately. Im sure this is not a secret at this point.
When Canyon and I ran those test a few years back on decarb & evoo extraction there was virtually no solid info out there to guide us. Everybody had an opinion but no testing to back it up. The big guys were just beginning to lock up their patents ( I looked some up to find decarb time/temps, etc). And they weren't giving up anything meaningful . As a business man, I can't blame them. Back then the feedback was "my butter kicks ass!". Maybe. But I kept saying I've never found a conversion table that shows "kicks ass as a percentage". They were missing the point. Maybe it does kick ass. Your extraction could be very strong and you could still be leaving 20% behind. If you grow maybe that's not a big deal for personal use. But people buying retail buds...20% is a big difference in price. And btw, in our tests, we WERE leaving 20% behind with the known methods. I have since cut that in half with technique refinement.
All that being said, I'm here now...with rosin (heat/pressure extraction) being my method of choice. Make rosin & then simply "decarb & "mix" with EVOO. As for waste, come behind it with EtOH on those chips and you have apx 97% of the goodies. With a quality press you probably get 90-95% of the goodies anyway.
Another draw to the rosin side is that you can make a smokeable product at the same time you are making an extraction for edibles. When doing a EVOO extraction, you are headed for edibles only. And if you don't think edibles is king, you aren't doing nearly enough. Usually, I want to see the flying monkeys. lol But we all still love a good clean hit when life does not allow space cadeting.
Thanks Tokin. With all those things being equal....lets say you use the same plant for making rosin out of the buds and separately rosin out of the trim. In your experience, is the rosin from the trim a lower potency than from the buds? Or, is it just as strong but just less yield? We need to know this, well for a lot of reasons. I'm sure this is a known answer. A lab tech would know or any Co. that makes rosin legitimately. Im sure this is not a secret at this point.
When Canyon and I ran those test a few years back on decarb & evoo extraction there was virtually no solid info out there to guide us. Everybody had an opinion but no testing to back it up. The big guys were just beginning to lock up their patents ( I looked some up to find decarb time/temps, etc). And they weren't giving up anything meaningful . As a business man, I can't blame them. Back then the feedback was "my butter kicks ass!". Maybe. But I kept saying I've never found a conversion table that shows "kicks ass as a percentage". They were missing the point. Maybe it does kick ass. Your extraction could be very strong and you could still be leaving 20% behind. If you grow maybe that's not a big deal for personal use. But people buying retail buds...20% is a big difference in price. And btw, in our tests, we WERE leaving 20% behind with the known methods. I have since cut that in half with technique refinement.
All that being said, I'm here now...with rosin (heat/pressure extraction) being my method of choice. Make rosin & then simply "decarb & "mix" with EVOO. As for waste, come behind it with EtOH on those chips and you have apx 97% of the goodies. With a quality press you probably get 90-95% of the goodies anyway.
Another draw to the rosin side is that you can make a smokeable product at the same time you are making an extraction for edibles. When doing a EVOO extraction, you are headed for edibles only. And if you don't think edibles is king, you aren't doing nearly enough. Usually, I want to see the flying monkeys. lol But we all still love a good clean hit when life does not allow space cadeting.
I have not used trim to squeeze rosin, but I’m about 99% convinced that the potency of the trim rosin would be the same as the bud rosin; just less quantity.
Decarbing rosin is quick and easy. When I make EVOO capsules I do exactly how you described; squish rosin, decarb, mix with EVOO, fill capsules...buzz lightyear.
Because of your knowledge and experience, there will be a very short learning curve for you.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Thank you sir. I'm leaning that way at 99% also. What puzzles me though is this: I can buy honey colored concentrate that is obviously free of large particle debris yet I estimate the quality at apx 40%. Pretty low for concentrates. I could be wrong but I doubt it. I have serious experience in edibles. So when I mix my oil with decarbed whatever I'm buying, Im using that 40 % number to make my dose (mg/gm of EVOO) for the edible. If the stuff was up to snuff as it appears, it would be more like 70% and my 150mg edible would really be 262mg!!!! Trust me, I would notice the difference! So, what gives? Are there other ways to adulterate the shatter or whatever it is? Its only brittle when cold otherwise like taffy.
As for pressing, yes sir, I got up to speed quickly based upon the knowledge gained studying extraction in general. My focus was on maximizing efficiency for the kitchen setting for the average Joe.......ok, I incorporate some cool toys to up efficiency but still kitchen suitable. But in order to evaluate my method I had to be versed in all the ways to extract. BTW, what I pressed was seriously better than what I bought. And that result contributes to my what gives caveat. So, help! Why is that pretty concentrate only 40%? See, my first thought was "well it was made from trim and therefore not as strong." But the more I pondered it, the logic seemed flawed. But that my friend, led me to this big and necessary question about potency/yield. I have been poking around but no clear answers as of yet. So, at this point I'm with tokin @ 99% sure. But if we are right, what gives with the 40% concentrate that looks so clean?????
As for pressing, yes sir, I got up to speed quickly based upon the knowledge gained studying extraction in general. My focus was on maximizing efficiency for the kitchen setting for the average Joe.......ok, I incorporate some cool toys to up efficiency but still kitchen suitable. But in order to evaluate my method I had to be versed in all the ways to extract. BTW, what I pressed was seriously better than what I bought. And that result contributes to my what gives caveat. So, help! Why is that pretty concentrate only 40%? See, my first thought was "well it was made from trim and therefore not as strong." But the more I pondered it, the logic seemed flawed. But that my friend, led me to this big and necessary question about potency/yield. I have been poking around but no clear answers as of yet. So, at this point I'm with tokin @ 99% sure. But if we are right, what gives with the 40% concentrate that looks so clean?????
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Mr Dutchman,
This is your room. Am I getting off topic with this stuff? You guys and Tokin appeared to be the ones to hash it out with. I guess there are others but this is where I landed from search.
This is your room. Am I getting off topic with this stuff? You guys and Tokin appeared to be the ones to hash it out with. I guess there are others but this is where I landed from search.
I’m sure this conversation has been hashed (pun intended) somewhere, by someone. I only have limited experience with concentrates. Once I found out I could squish my own rosin it was a no-brainer for me. I still do alcohol extraction for my Rosin pucks, but my main consumption of cannabis is thru rosin in one form or another.
I don’t have a clue why the concentrate would be less potent unless it’s coming from less-potent weed, or even ‘trim’ from less potent weed. I do know that top-shelf weed will squish top-shelf rosin. I’m lucky that I can grow my very own...yes, yes I am.
I don’t have a clue why the concentrate would be less potent unless it’s coming from less-potent weed, or even ‘trim’ from less potent weed. I do know that top-shelf weed will squish top-shelf rosin. I’m lucky that I can grow my very own...yes, yes I am.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Impressive bud porn there sir!
- Thread starter
- #236
Nice Grandpa! I’de hit that!
Hey Kick! So to answer your question to the best of my knowledge...
Squishing trim compared to flower will not decrease your overall cannabinoids released but will decrease your yields! You will possibly release additional lipids and fats but when using the correct micron bags you can filter it properly.
If you need to check what the actual profile is you would need to send it out for testing for an accurate breakdown. This would be the only way to find out the exact % to compare to!
Subbed in - finally!
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Ok Dutchman. I have a few hours in this and I can't find anything to dispute that. That "pretty" extract I was referring to may simply have more microscopic trash in it to bring it down to 40%. So what micron bag is Golidlocks for rosin?
- Thread starter
- #239
Welcome Salt!
Each strain and process is different but for flower the best micron bags are 90-160u.
For trim I would recommend either a 160u for best return or dropping down to a 37u for best refinement! If you go to my frost page I have a sheet that shows best choices for what materials !
After this it’s about time and pressures
- Thread starter
- #240
Purple Gorilla Autoflower Rosin