That's interesting. @Stunger has an extended draught going on now in his thread, where he rescues the plant periodically with a light watering and then lets it drought again.
Can you share what the adverse effects were?
Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis
- Thread starter Krissi Carbone
- Start date
Can you share what the adverse effects were?
Here's an excerpt from the referenced study:
"Repetition of drought stress and subsequent acclimation can influence the way in which plants
respond to the stressor (Banik et al., 2016). The present study evaluated the effects of drought at
a single point during the flowering stage, but timing of drought stress and drought stress
frequency could also affect secondary metabolism in cannabis. Some higher plants have the
ability to acclimate to drought stress and stress resistance may increase after exposure to a low
level of stress (Banik et al., 2016; Flexas et al., 2009). The acclimation responses from repeated
drought stress could, therefore, further stimulate secondary metabolites in cannabis; though, a
longer drought event may be required to elicit the response in acclimated plants. More research is
needed to evaluate the effects of drought stress timing and acclimation on cannabis yield and
secondary metabolism. Lastly, since rates of cannabinoid accumulation vary by chemovar
(Aizpurua-Olaizola et al., 2016; Muntendam et al., 2012), the effect of drought on other
chemovars should be explored."
"Repetition of drought stress and subsequent acclimation can influence the way in which plants
respond to the stressor (Banik et al., 2016). The present study evaluated the effects of drought at
a single point during the flowering stage, but timing of drought stress and drought stress
frequency could also affect secondary metabolism in cannabis. Some higher plants have the
ability to acclimate to drought stress and stress resistance may increase after exposure to a low
level of stress (Banik et al., 2016; Flexas et al., 2009). The acclimation responses from repeated
drought stress could, therefore, further stimulate secondary metabolites in cannabis; though, a
longer drought event may be required to elicit the response in acclimated plants. More research is
needed to evaluate the effects of drought stress timing and acclimation on cannabis yield and
secondary metabolism. Lastly, since rates of cannabinoid accumulation vary by chemovar
(Aizpurua-Olaizola et al., 2016; Muntendam et al., 2012), the effect of drought on other
chemovars should be explored."
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Usually, the term "adverse effects" would mean something you don't want. Negative, bad. Not the desired effect. In the context of droughting, am not sure. Sounds perverse, but maybe in droughting "adverse effects" is exactly what is wanted? A topsy turvy world where bad is good?
This would suggest that "futher stimulating secondary metabolites" works against the effect we are after? Because that would be how it's a negaitve.
But, since the draught stimulates the plant to ramp up trichome production, it would seem further stimulation is exactly what we want.
Maybe that's a negative thing in other plants like lettuce where maybe the response makes the plant bitter, and a further response makes it more bitter and therefore even less desirable but in our case, more response seems exactly what we want. Although the study was done on cannabis so maybe the stimulating secondary metabolites means something else?
All I know is watching @Stunger 's plant going through repeated, and extended, draughting seems to be having the exact effect we are all looking to achieve with this process.
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
Ahoy BW,
Some higher plants have the ability to acclimate to drought stress and stress resistance may increase after exposure to a low level of stress (Banik et al., 2016; Flexas et al., 2009).
The term higher plants refer to conveyance of the green line ancestry. Ancient plants like fern, shrubs, and of course trees. All these higher plants live long lives. (Maritimer et,al 2022).
"The acclimation responses from repeated drought stress could, therefore, further stimulate secondary metabolites in cannabis; though, a longer drought event may be required to elicit the response in acclimated plants."
The species survival response is triggered when the cultivar has attained measurable wilt (LWA) amounting to a 50% change in turgid posture. Short duration droughts that do not meet the 50% criteria have simply deprived the cultivar of water and nutrients. Repeated droughts attaining 50% delta in LWA effectively take too long to complete and yield is compromised. (Maritimer et, al 2022).
@Stunger sir, you have a fine crew here. Some smart folks that I hope to become friends with. But as we have seen my popularity is lacking. I have got to get out soon and pay you a proper visit.
Has anyone seen our hostess?
Ah, but of what yield does he speaketh? Is it buddagage and poundage? Or is it trichomes?
If it's the former, I think we really don't care too much about that since we want what's on those buds, so we would really only care if less bud size meant less surface area to support less trichomes.
But, the original conclusion was that the goodies increased by a dramatic percent when the process was followed as it was in the study.
So then the question would be, do you lose some of the additional trichomes that were gained in the original drought sequence if you do it multiple times or over prolonged time periods as the above conclusion ("yield is compromised") suggests?
And, again, I would point to @Stunger 's ongoing experiment to suggest that that ain't the right conclusion, at least if you are measuring your "yield" in trichomes as opposed to plant or flower weight as you would with, say, vegetables.
So, if your harvest of buds in grams was somewhat compromised, but those buds produced 50% more of the goodies than normal, I think most of us would take that result every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.
I guess we need to better define the term "yield" in terms of his conclusions, is what I'm saying, because our shorthand for yield is typically dried bud weight, but what we really are interested in is what is on those buds. Kind of like we use the shorthand of "overwatering" which really has more to do with lack of oxygen to the roots than it does with water.
We all kinda know we are talking about something different from the words we choose, but the challenge is when you then try to compare it to something else, like say a compromised tomato harvest, you really are not comparing the same things.
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
Deron and your's truly have been droughting cannabis for some years now and I can say we are both doing some things different nowadays, but mostly the goodies increased by a dramatic percent when the process was followed as it was in the study remains true.
This is not at all to say that what Commodore @Stunger and other brave pioneers are tinkering with will not be the Holy Grail we all hope to find. My goal is to initiate a drought response without droughting the plant. Not for this thread but I'm gonna do it.
yield expressed in THCgrams/1MSquared.
Ok, so if that is true, then he is saying that repeated or prolonged droughts reduce, or compromise, the increase in yield, as defined above, from the first round.
Do it once and you max out the effect. Do it more and some of the goodies are reabsorbed or something? I mean, where do they go? You have suggested that some of the goodies get relocated or changed I think (something about the amber color reverting and some of the mushroom heads disappearing if I remember).
Hmmmm.
I believe he speaks of diminishing returns. Ie. The first drought may net you a 40% increase in THC.
By the second drought the plant has gotten wise to your dastardly ways. It adapts to the new 'normal' (drought periods) and thus is less stressed. Less stress = less stress response = less extra THC.
So maybe you get an additional 15% THC on the second drought.
To see the same THC gains as the first drought, you would likely need to double the drought period.
As you extend the drought beyond 11 days to say 22, that's 22 days your plant is going without nutrients and water. You're going to start taking a big hit in flower size / development at that point.
So the question is, where is the balance you're looking to strike. How much flower weight/quality will you sacrifice for say a 55% increase in THC production versus a 40% increase.
The answer likely lies in how you intend to use the end product. A hashmaker / squeezer doesn't need pretty flowers just resin and may benefit from repeated drought. A smoker likely wants some flower weight and should stick with a single drought.
Whatever you do, have a control plant as well! If you're droughting all your plants and don't have an un-droughted plant to compare to, there's no way to really know if it's working or not.
By the second drought the plant has gotten wise to your dastardly ways. It adapts to the new 'normal' (drought periods) and thus is less stressed. Less stress = less stress response = less extra THC.
So maybe you get an additional 15% THC on the second drought.
To see the same THC gains as the first drought, you would likely need to double the drought period.
As you extend the drought beyond 11 days to say 22, that's 22 days your plant is going without nutrients and water. You're going to start taking a big hit in flower size / development at that point.
So the question is, where is the balance you're looking to strike. How much flower weight/quality will you sacrifice for say a 55% increase in THC production versus a 40% increase.
The answer likely lies in how you intend to use the end product. A hashmaker / squeezer doesn't need pretty flowers just resin and may benefit from repeated drought. A smoker likely wants some flower weight and should stick with a single drought.
Whatever you do, have a control plant as well! If you're droughting all your plants and don't have an un-droughted plant to compare to, there's no way to really know if it's working or not.
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
My crew of StankBerry X Blue Dream = (Otter's Dream) on day 7 going for 11 drought.
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
By day 7 a fair amount of available plant energy normally consumed holding leaves erect (shade avoidance) is being redirected and all or most stomata's have been closed by the rising ABA being synthesized in the root zone protecting from moisture loss. This of course if fatale to the transpiration required for life. The species survival code written in the cultivar's DNA will be engaged and with the end near, all resources are redirected to producing oils to keep her seed stock from drying out.
They really get pissed when I sing about water to them. ha
They really get pissed when I sing about water to them. ha
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
When considering LWA, we can possibly have a more accurate indication of plant status utilizing our scopes to determine stomatal closures. When say over half of viewed stoma's are closed we could say the GRN has been convinced the drought poises an existential threat and end of life protocols take over. Soak the seeds she thinks she may have.
yet to be fully elucidated ya know
yet to be fully elucidated ya know
I must state, there is no expertise in what I am doing. I am just attempting to emulate the accidental summer of droughting that once gave me a wonderfully potent plant, by carrying out cycles of wilting and rescuing.
No, she must be busy with life!@Stunger sir, you have a fine crew here. Some smart folks that I hope to become friends with. But as we have seen my popularity is lacking. I have got to get out soon and pay you a proper visit.
Has anyone seen our hostess?
I should state, that over the last couple of years, my balcony has produced more yield than I can use. So to me, it makes sense to accept a potentially smaller yield in exchange for a more potent one.
Actually Braddah makes a good point here, when droughting nute fed plants they potentially are going to be lacking if the droughting period is a lengthy one. However in my case, I don't nute feed as I am growing in living organic soil so presumably I wouldn't be affected in quite the same way as a coco medium grower would.
Another point to note, is that my original accidentally droughted plant that grew from a bag of organic potting mix and was only fed twice with some liquid tomato feed (it was a newbie grow) so by it's flowering time it's soil was probably pretty depleted. But those natural cycles of wilt and water, created a beautifully potent result. It was that obvious, that everyone I shared samples with, was moved to comment that it noticeably exceeded the potency of 'normal bud'. All subjective of course.
Just for the record, here is a pic from last night of my Mango Sherbert at 21days, before I gave her a 'rescue drink'.
And again some pics from this morning, her 22nd day, looking a bit perked up and ready for her next cycle!
Hopefully she doesn't get damaged in the storm that is arriving tomorrow.
And again some pics from this morning, her 22nd day, looking a bit perked up and ready for her next cycle!
Hopefully she doesn't get damaged in the storm that is arriving tomorrow.
Maybe not, but you're doing it in a very methodical and consistent way. A bit of a different variation on the original experiment that has great value to any conclusions we can draw from the various growers each doing it slightly differently.
Krissi you ok !!! 
I appreciate the promotion and will try to provide some valuable information.Ahoy @Hafta,
I must first discuss the matter with @StoneOtter but it my impression you will make a fine science officer, and a welcome member of the crew. "To bravely go where no hobbit has gone". We will give you the immeasurable support a cannabis pioneer deserves. Plus, the pay is tops in the private sector. kidding
Sir, unless I got it wrong from Rex, it is you who will be answering your own questions as you head into unknown waters. We will be your studious comrades.
Press on @ your leisure Commodore.
I'm just catching up from the weekend. I will be the tallest hobbit ever seen ( 6'5")
I will put together a path to follow and submit it for conversation. Here is a brief description so far. Please comment/suggest. I am still at least a week away.
When the time comes I will attempt to achieve the LWA and keep it there for at least ten days.
The solution (60% of recommended = 800 ppm) will be removed and replaced in the reservoir based upon LWA changes.
I plan to keep the irrigation (drip at the trunk and other net baskets) running during the entire "re-moisturization" process to put moisture on the entire root system. There are sixteen drip locations throughout the reservoir so it should be "raining" on all exposed roots.
If ...... I make it through ten days I will re-moisturize to ensure even drying throughout.
Naturally there will be detailed notes and time stamps.
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
Ahoy there!
When you find the timing and tuning of your particular type of garden and accomplish a successful drought, a promise I make to you now, will have come true.
Maritimer's Promise.
"A cannabis gardener that triggers the species survival response thru the application of controlled drought in his or her garden has indeed become a droughter for life." (Maritimer et al. 2022)
scottreid1966
Well-Known Member
The last I heard of Krissi, she said going into mega busy mode, so to speak. Mega trim a few weeks ago and away she went to the next phase. That girl sure does keep busy with her girls!
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
Hi Mlburk1:Krissi you ok !!!
I believe our host would call me if something were amiss. If that is any reassurance. Sometimes droughters find little to talk about between late bloom periods. That is when we tune our craft, one drought at a time. I have a crew downstairs on day 10 presently. I will grab some pictures of them tomorrow right before I fertigate. The 11 days takes a toll on appearance as you might expect.
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