Does this plant have some kind of nutrient deficiency? Yellowing first true leaves

[Azimuth]

1) Extensive browning of leaves.

At about 21 or 22 days, something happened that browned leaves on all my plants at once. It was the same day I turned up the lights to 80% of their power. I turned it back down after 24h, and the browning stopped. So, my conclusion is that it was light stress.

But the leaves of plant 1 have continued to brown around the edges.

The plant is very, very bushy and short. The branches don't grow very long. Most of the undergrowth has brown tips, is frail and just unsightly.

I don't know if lack of light (which is definitely an issue given the bushiness) can make such leaves wither away like that.

I ended up removing most of the very small browned leaves in the undergrowth.

Here are examples (note that what I removed were not leaves as shown below, but rather way, way smaller leaves just coming off of a node but withering away)

That's your K issue building. You mentioned you started the seeds in a supersoil mix, but first tell us the ratios of your inputs. Supersoil is generally too hot for seedlings so unless you built your pot with the supersoil only at the bottom, you're stressing your plants out from the jump.

4) Red Stems On Newest Growth at Top Portion of Plant

I've also been noticing in the past week or so that this plant has lots of red stems at the top, unlike the other two plants.

Could just be genetic but I'd guess it's a building P issue. Cold temps can drive that but nutrient deficiencies/lockouts can as well.

So anyway, my other two plants are way larger and way healthier at this point than this problematic plant.

My big huge worry is that somehow whatever pests afflict this plant move over to the other two.

I don't know if I should remove it from the grow room, or keep trying to treat it.

This is your low brix plant. Bugs and disease are Mother Nature's garbage collectors and attack weak plants which is why they only seem to go after the weakest ones.

Do you have a brix meter (refractometer) to check your plants health?

Supersoil  should have most everything the plant will need in the correct ratios so something is a miss here.

 

[zuraya]

That's your K issue building. You mentioned you started the seeds in a supersoil mix, but first tell us the ratios of your inputs. Supersoil is generally too hot for seedlings so unless you built your pot with the supersoil only at the bottom, you're stressing your plants out from the jump.

My supersoil is always 1 part each of homemade compost, coco coir, and perlite. I check the pH and make sure it is at down to at least 6.5, but I try to get it to around 6.3.

The mix works, I use it on other potted plants, and in the garden. This year a huge tomato plant (like over 2m tall grew and gave a whole season of cherry tomatoes from a tiny pot with this supersoil.

Currently, I have two cannabis plants (Plant 1 and Plant 2) that are in this supersoil.

They are both the same genetic (Paradise Seeds, Atomical Haze, from the same box).

BUT, there is a slight difference.

Plant 2 went straight from initial cup to a final pot of 5.27 gallons with supersoil that was "cured", ie the compost was left outside to cool down for many, many months.

Plant 1 was in this same cool supersoil in the initial cup and then the first pot (1.87 gallon). If you look back at the initial posts, this plant was actually the one most thriving in the beginning.

However, in a second transplant to a 5.27 gallon pot, I used the same mix but a different homemade compost in the sense that it was probably "hot", ie not cured for as long (only perhaps two months).

The supersoil is definitely not lacking in nutrients. But perhaps it is too hot, and it came with pests as it was laying outside for a shorter period of time and was "hot".

One additional thing that happened that I didn't mention was that the second transplant of Plant 1 was not flawless. I had some issues moving the plant (dry soil breaking off), and this was like ten days ago.

I looked at the previous posts in this thread and I posted about thrips and then fungus gnats and now red stems all right after the second transplant. My guess is its the second transplant shock + hot supersoil.

If this is the case, is there anything to be done?

Just look at how the plants looked on day 33 (9 days ago), right after the second transplant of Plant 1 (day 32)

Plant 1 is always the bottom left, and Plant 2 is on the right. They were roughly the same size and I remember thinking if Plant 2 was starting to supersede Plant 1 but it wasn't clear.

Plant 1 already had all the indications of thrip here.

This was the basically the moment things diverged.

Plant 2 exploded and Plant 1 did not.

Here is an above view of Plant 1 from day 30 (before the second transplant).

The plant looks very healthy, and there don't seem to be any thrips at all (there is a tiny white dot on one leaf bottom right, so maybe it was starting here already but hadn't yet taken over). Either way, the point is the plant was just as healthy as plant 2 in the days before the 2nd transplant, which was two days after the above photo.

I have never heard of Brix, and don't have a refractometer.

You mention potential P and K issues.

If either is the case it is likely because the plant can't access the nutrients for some reason. After all, it was just transplanted to a larger pot with more supersoil.

You are right, something is amiss.

I am not inclined to simply add more nutrients to this supersoil. After all, would this even help if the supersoil actually has way too many nutrients?

How bad does Plant 1 look btw?

I don't have enough experience to say, but the canopy looks ok-ish. She's just obviously not growing like her sisters.

The evidence suggests to me that something in the supersoil in the second transplant has affected what is happening at the level of the roots.

 

[zuraya]

I am inclined to try solutions that eliminate unwanted pests.

Bacillus thurigiensis israelensis for the gnats.

Neem oil for everything on the leaves.

I've never used neem oil, but I ordered some and it arrives Tuesday.

Are there any side effects on the final product to using neem oil?

Would putting a few ladybugs in the grow room have any beneficial effect (especially regarding thrips)?

I would wrap Plant 1 in a very fine mesh that let's some light through but prevents ladybugs from escaping (to the lights, from what I read).

I could put the plant closer to the light if that is an issue due to the mesh.

I've also read about nematodes. I could probably find some around my garden, but would need to devise a way to catch them.

Btw, just an update on the third plant we're not talking about. Plant 3, the soilless one with Remo nutrients. Holy shit is it on a god damn tear. Just keeps growing like crazy. And this plant was the one with the problems initially. How the tables have turned.

 

[zuraya]

I thought about it and I think I will try an alternative route.

I don't think it is worth the risk keeping this plant with hot soil inside the grow tent with the other healthy plants.

I'm going to put plant 1 outdoors to start flowering.

This way, I don't have to worry too much about the pests (hopefully, there are natural predators to help).

In addition, I am curious to see what will happen.

 

[Azimuth]

The mix works, I use it on other potted plants, and in the garden. This year a huge tomato plant (like over 2m tall grew and gave a whole season of cherry tomatoes from a tiny pot with this supersoil.

I have no doubt. It's just with seedlings it's super easy to burn them early on their new roots. My seedling mix is just equal parts of compost, castings, old soil and perlite. Pretty mellow stuff. Then at first up pitting once they've established their roots they get the good stuff.

The supersoil is definitely not lacking in nutrients. But perhaps it is too hot, and it came with pests as it was laying outside for a shorter period of time and was "hot".

Many of the ingredients need time to have the microbes digest them so if you use it too early that process happens in your pot and can burn the roots. We call it cooking because with all of the huge microbial activity temps can shoot well past survival temps. No Bueno in yer pot.

If this is the case, is there anything to be done?

How is your worm castings game? You need microbes to feed all the nutrients to your plant plus a steady stream of calcium supplied from above since it's heavy and sinks. I top dress with castings every week.

I have never heard of Brix, and don't have a refractometer.

That will be a good tool to get if your growing in organic super soil. If you get an analog (not digital) one it can tell you if you've got enough calcium. Plus a brix reading over 12 and you're past most pest issues since they can't digest the plant sugars which is what that device measures. It usually used in the wine and beer industries to gage when to harvest the grapes at peak sugar content.

You should come check out Gee's Gee Spot thread. Gee's the "professor" and has incredible organic plant growing knowledge and he's great at teaching the real background behind growing organic.

If either is the case it is likely because the plant can't access the nutrients for some reason. After all, it was just transplanted to a larger pot with more supersoil.

You are right, something is amiss.

I am not inclined to simply add more nutrients to this supersoil. After all, would this even help if the supersoil actually has way too many nutrients?

I don't know what's in your super soil but I'll guess it's a pretty standard one like SubCool's. If so, it should have plenty of nutes for a while at least. You need at least 10 gallon pots to get all the way to harvest though. Smaller than that and you have to supplement. I grow in 2 gallon pots so I just work a feeding into the weekly routine.

How bad does Plant 1 look btw?

I think it looks pretty good. Only thing I'd do to all of them is give them a top dressing of castings and mist it in well.

Are there any side effects on the final product to using neem oil?

It's great in veg and during stretch but no good once you hit flower. At that point you'd use a soap. But, I'll bet your brix level is pretty good, say 9-11. If you can get it over 12, it's good bye thrips and mites. Then you're crankin'.

Would putting a few ladybugs in the grow room have any beneficial effect (especially regarding thrips)?

I would wrap Plant 1 in a very fine mesh that let's some light through but prevents ladybugs from escaping (to the lights, from what I read).

I could put the plant closer to the light if that is an issue due to the mesh.

Here's a good post on Lady bug care.

Btw, just an update on the third plant we're not talking about. Plant 3, the soilless one with Remo nutrients. Holy shit is it on a god damn tear. Just keeps growing like crazy. And this plant was the one with the problems initially. How the tables have turned.

 

[bluter]

Are there any side effects on the final product to using neem oil?

don't use it in flower. it flavors the weed so bad you won't be able to use it.

 

[Sueet]

How is it a supersoil if you didn't add any minerals?

 

[bluter]

How is it a supersoil if you didn't add any minerals?

you had to go down that rabbit hole lol ...

 

[zuraya]

How is it a supersoil if you didn't add any minerals?

I take it you are referring to commercial minerals.

The very first time I made my supersoil, I had all sorts of bags of commercial additives. I've forgotten the names of the things. The thing is, the compost on its own had a pH of about 6.5 and when I added certain minerals the pH went way up.

Minerals occur naturally in organic material. My compost has all sorts of vegetables and fruits, lots of eggs shells, leaves and sticks of different kinds. I've even used wood shavings, and cardboard. The amount of visible bugs is huge, and there are hundreds if not thousands of worms, and then there are all the microorganisms that really do the heavy lifting.

So, just like I don't know exactly how much NPK is in my compost, I don't know exactly how much of each mineral there is.

I just assume that the diversity of things that went in plus the activity of microorganisms and macroorganisms will make the compost very rich in everything.

The big lesson I learned, however, is that you must let compost cool down for many, many months.

I took the plant that had way too hot supersoil outdoors. It seems happy so far, very sunny days.

Here are the two that remain in the grow room - one with supersoil, one soilless.

Honestly, the leaves look absolutely stunning. These two plants are thriving.

 

[zuraya]

Many of the ingredients need time to have the microbes digest them so if you use it too early that process happens in your pot and can burn the roots

Agreed.

How is your worm castings game?

I have eight vermicomposting bins. Sometimes there are castings all over the sides on the top part, but other than that it's all in the compost itself.

You need at least 10 gallon pots to get all the way to harvest though.

This is interesting. I don't actually have enough cooled down compost right now to make enough supersoil for a transplant to a 10 gallon pot, let alone to two 10 gallon pots.

I'm going to try to see it through in 5.27 gallon, and we'll see what happens.

I decided I will start flowering at 8 weeks total, which I think is 6 weeks of veg. That's in like twelve days I think.

At least I have the soilless one that will be getting fed like a baby everyday.

Here's a good post on Lady bug care.

I've given up on lady bugs for now and neem oil for now. The problematic plant has simply been removed from the grow room.

 

[zuraya]

I think I am beginning to really understanding at this point why people plant in soilless. It's much easier, at least it seems so so far.

Right now I am down to one supersoil plant (Plant 2) and a soilless plant (Plant 3) in the grow room, with one more supersoil plant (Plant 1) outdoors.

Plant 2 went from perfect two days ago to now showing signs of problems.

So far, as you can see in the photos below, the problem is just starting.

I've never seen the type of browning below before

Here are the photos

In addition, there is a separate thing I noticed.

The soilless plant has way darker leaves than the supersoil plant. I read very dark green happens when you have lots of nutes (ie too many?) going into the plant and lime green also isn't good.

Here is the soilless

and the supersoil one

What is this browning/oranging?

 

[Roy Growin]

Potassium or Calcium are the usual suspects, but difficult to know from a photo
Are you watering pH 6.0 - 6.8 range?

 

[zuraya]

Potassium or Calcium are the usual suspects, but difficult to know from a photo
Are you watering pH 6.0 - 6.8 range?

Yes the water is on the high end of that range.

 

[zuraya]

Here is another theory I have that is based on very superficial knowledge about these plants.

If we assume that the supersoil is in fact very nutrient-rich and is not at all depletd, could it be that this plant 2, which was healthy and suddenly is displaying signs of stress, is root-bound?

I opened the side of my airpots slightly to look at the roots and they have grown crazily and are all over the sides like thousands of small capillaries.

The plant clearly wants more space?

Could this cause the browning seen in the pictures in my previous post?

I have ordered a new 13.5 gallon airpot for this plant that arrives tomorrow and I will transplant.

I was planning on flipping to flowering in 10 days.

If I execute the transplant with the minimum amount of stress to the plant, how many days after should I wait to flip to flower?

 

[Azimuth]

An up pot can often really improve things. Up to you but I'd give it at least a week as the roots will want to explore the new territory.