DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc

[fncg]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

I like 65 degrees, 55% Rh. However, if you don't feel like running another AC all the time, and it's hot out, 75 degrees and 60% Rh works well.

The Rh seems more important than the temps and if things seem to be drying too fast, I'll bump up the humidity before I run the AC, because the AC also dries things out and I'll have to run both AC and humidifier, wasting power.

I used to trim the buds off the branches and dry them in a mesh net....but having a large stem attaches to the buds really helps with slowing down the drying rate.

As slow dry seems to improve the flavor of the smoke more than the smell.

I haven't done it yet, but I want to experiment with starting the drying process with 85 degrees and 80% Rh for 2 or 3 days, and then gradually drop things to 65/50. I learned this method from reading about home tobacco curing.....it might be a stupid idea, so let me ruin a crop before you do!

Thanks! I think for temperature and humidity, I'm going to have a different set of challenges than most...here's an average weather report at my place.

And I'm a couple months out from having anything to dry/cure, but will definitely be subscribed to see how it turns out.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Thanks! I think for temperature and humidity, I'm going to have a different set of challenges than most...here's an average weather report at my place.

And I'm a couple months out from having anything to dry/cure, but will definitely be subscribed to see how it turns out.

What you have right there is a curse if you're growing outdoors and a blessing if you're growing indoors!

I'd love to have that weather report!

 

[fncg]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

What you have right there is a curse if you're growing outdoors and a blessing if you're growing indoors!

I'd love to have that weather report!

Indoors.

I'm thinking a little propane heater ought to keep the grow room warm and de-humidified. Input?

(And sorry if this is a threadjack)

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Indoors.

I'm thinking a little propane heater ought to keep the grow room warm and de-humidified. Input?

(And sorry if this is a threadjack)

Propane will increase humidity, because the combustion products of propane include CO2 and water vapor.

A ceramic heater would be a much better choice, coupled with a dehumidifier. It's the dark cycle, where the cooler air will give you trouble.

Warm air hold more moisture, so RELATIVE humidity goes down the hotter it gets.

Cold air can't hold all that moisture, and so the Rh goes up. You need a pretty strong de-humidifier to deal with ambient Rh of 84%.....

The propane heater, while a good source of CO2, will make life difficult against 84% Rh outside the grow room.

 

[fncg]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Room is 11x13. Probably gonna need a 50-70 pint unit to keep rh down to an adequate level, huh?

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Room is 11x13. Probably gonna need a 50-70 pint unit to keep rh down to an adequate level, huh?

Are you running C02?

Here's what I've learned trying to control the environment in 3 different grow rooms:

1.)get a really good computer controller, like a Sentinel. It runs heat, AC, humidity AND C02, all with separate day and night settings and all kinds of interconnects, etc. If you merely plug in AC, heat and dehum.....and they are adequately sized for the room, you've accomplished your goal of a stable, optimal environment.

2.)If you run a sealed room, you must exchange air during the dark cycle. In a large room the air need only be exchanged every hour or so. This is important, because if you're pumping in really moist air into your room, the dehum won't be able to keep up.

But if you exchange the air every hour the dehum can keep up.

3.) locate the dehum high enough so you can drain it continuously into a reservoir or bucket. This is primo distilled water, PPM of less than 5.

4.)large temperature swings between day and night will often result in condensation forming when the lights go out.....and this will lead to Powdery Mildew. Strive for between 10 and 15 degrees difference between day and night temps.

This is even better if you run C02, as you can have daytime temps of 84 and nightime of 70 and you'll have successfully mitigated your humidity issues.

The biggest problem I've seen in rooms where people can't seem to get it together is when they skimp on environmental controls and/or don't understsnd what each does.

IE, running an extraction fan to decrease humidity, when the air coming in is 90% humid......The grow room is way too moist, but the remedy makes it worse.

Another common problem is having a room that is far too dry....but you shouldn't have that trouble!

 

[fncg]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Not planning CO2 or a sealed room for the first round. Drainage for a DH won't be a problem, I've got a floor drain setup for it. Thanks for the input on temp ranges, and differentials. I'm definitely expecting to have to heat this room, as it's basically uninsulated and you've seen the outside (daytime) temperatures.

Edit: just read the bit about the dehumidifier drain being really good water. that'll change my plans a bit.

Sorry for the ongoing threadjack. I'm gonna have to start my grow journal before I start my actual grow, clearly.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Not planning CO2 or a sealed room for the first round. Drainage for a DH won't be a problem, I've got a floor drain setup for it. Thanks for the input on temp ranges, and differentials. I'm definitely expecting to have to heat this room, as it's basically uninsulated and you've seen the outside (daytime) temperatures.

Edit: just read the bit about the dehumidifier drain being really good water. that'll change my plans a bit.

Sorry for the ongoing threadjack. I'm gonna have to start my grow journal before I start my actual grow, clearly.

Sounds good bro! Get a big heater and make sure you have really good air circulation in the room. I test mine by smoking a bowl in the room and watching where the smoke goes.

Also, if you only water during the daytime cycle that will help. Avoid standing water too.

 

[4twenty4all]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Are you running C02?

Here's what I've learned trying to control the environment in 3 different grow rooms:

1.)get a really good computer controller, like a Sentinel. It runs heat, AC, humidity AND C02, all with separate day and night settings and all kinds of interconnects, etc. If you merely plug in AC, heat and dehum.....and they are adequately sized for the room, you've accomplished your goal of a stable, optimal environment.

2.)If you run a sealed room, you must exchange air during the dark cycle. In a large room the air need only be exchanged every hour or so. This is important, because if you're pumping in really moist air into your room, the dehum won't be able to keep up.

But if you exchange the air every hour the dehum can keep up.

3.) locate the dehum high enough so you can drain it continuously into a reservoir or bucket. This is primo distilled water, PPM of less than 5.

4.)large temperature swings between day and night will often result in condensation forming when the lights go out.....and this will lead to Powdery Mildew. Strive for between 10 and 15 degrees difference between day and night temps.

This is even better if you run C02, as you can have daytime temps of 84 and nightime of 70 and you'll have successfully mitigated your humidity issues.

The biggest problem I've seen in rooms where people can't seem to get it together is when they skimp on environmental controls and/or don't understsnd what each does.

IE, running an extraction fan to decrease humidity, when the air coming in is 90% humid......The grow room is way too moist, but the remedy makes it worse.

Another common problem is having a room that is far too dry....but you shouldn't have that trouble!

Kudos to Doc! Seriously he has done his homework and I can back this up 100% I'm honored to be on this forum with you Doc.....

Attention to details is where it is at and it makes all the difference. Genetics are important too, but......

Reps Doc, not like you need them but give credit where credit is due...

 

[Vapedogg223]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Are you running C02?

Here's what I've learned trying to control the environment in 3 different grow rooms:

1.)get a really good computer controller, like a Sentinel. It runs heat, AC, humidity AND C02, all with separate day and night settings and all kinds of interconnects, etc. If you merely plug in AC, heat and dehum.....and they are adequately sized for the room, you've accomplished your goal of a stable, optimal environment.

2.)If you run a sealed room, you must exchange air during the dark cycle. In a large room the air need only be exchanged every hour or so. This is important, because if you're pumping in really moist air into your room, the dehum won't be able to keep up.

But if you exchange the air every hour the dehum can keep up.

3.) locate the dehum high enough so you can drain it continuously into a reservoir or bucket. This is primo distilled water, PPM of less than 5.

4.)large temperature swings between day and night will often result in condensation forming when the lights go out.....and this will lead to Powdery Mildew. Strive for between 10 and 15 degrees difference between day and night temps.

This is even better if you run C02, as you can have daytime temps of 84 and nightime of 70 and you'll have successfully mitigated your humidity issues.

The biggest problem I've seen in rooms where people can't seem to get it together is when they skimp on environmental controls and/or don't understsnd what each does.

IE, running an extraction fan to decrease humidity, when the air coming in is 90% humid......The grow room is way too moist, but the remedy makes it worse.

Another common problem is having a room that is far too dry....but you shouldn't have that trouble!

Doc, I'm following you on every point except one...

If you run a sealed room, you must exchange air during the dark cycle. In a large room the air need only be exchanged every hour or so.

This one is important to me because I am working on a new grow room right now... I've been following your journals closely, and take your lessons to heart. Based in large part on your teachings, my main concerns with the new room can be broken down into three categories: environment, environment, and environment.

I'll be using a Sentinel CHHC4 as my controller, running a heater, air conditioner, dehumidifier, and a Green Air Products air-cooled CO2 generator. My grow environment will be completely sealed. HID lighting hoods and CO2 generator will be cooled by outdoor air that is vented back outdoors.

I'll also be carbon scrubbing air in the main flowering area and moving that through a smaller vegging room on the other side of a wall and back into the flowering room.

So that brings me to my question. If I'm running a sealed, climate controlled room with a CO2 generator, why must I exchange air at all? I'm making CO2 and have full control over PPM, the plants are making O2, temps and humidity are managed...what am I missing?

I've been trying to find as much info as possible on sealed grow environments, but there's not a lot out there, so it wouldn't surprise me if there's something I haven't taken into account, I just need to make sure my design is a sound one before I move forward, so any help or advice you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

My apologies if I'm going too far fftopic: in your journal my friend.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Doc, I'm following you on every point except one...



This one is important to me because I am working on a new grow room right now... I've been following your journals closely, and take your lessons to heart. Based in large part on your teachings, my main concerns with the new room can be broken down into three categories: environment, environment, and environment.

I'll be using a Sentinel CHHC4 as my controller, running a heater, air conditioner, dehumidifier, and a Green Air Products air-cooled CO2 generator. My grow environment will be completely sealed. HID lighting hoods and CO2 generator will be cooled by outdoor air that is vented back outdoors.

I'll also be carbon scrubbing air in the main flowering area and moving that through a smaller vegging room on the other side of a wall and back into the flowering room.

So that brings me to my question. If I'm running a sealed, climate controlled room with a CO2 generator, why must I exchange air at all? I'm making CO2 and have full control over PPM, the plants are making O2, temps and humidity are managed...what am I missing?

I've been trying to find as much info as possible on sealed grow environments, but there's not a lot out there, so it wouldn't surprise me if there's something I haven't taken into account, I just need to make sure my design is a sound one before I move forward, so any help or advice you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

My apologies if I'm going too far fftopic: in your journal my friend.

Plants consume Co2 when the lights are on, and use O2 when the lights are off.

However, they don't make enough O2 to be their own primary source of oxygen. Even in a sealed room, you need to freshen the air up during the dark cycle. I know people don't always do this, but the plants will be much happier if you do.

I have a carbon filter and fan that takes air from inside-out high in one corner, and a hepa filter and fan that brings air into the room at floor level in the opposite corner. These are shut off when the lights come on. They only run in the dark cycle. It keeps things fresh and clean and I've had no bugs to speak of or any PM issues or anyother disease for 3 grow cycles.

I'm probably jinxing myself, but I haven't even had a mite infestation in the new room yet....just a few on one plant that couldn't seem to do much damage, the plant was so dang healthy. Killed 'em all with a couple sprays of Dr. Doom.

I do hit incoming clones with a badass miticide, like floramite, Avid or Forbid......but none of my seed-grown plants have needed any spraying yet.

I'm rambling on here....smoke a nice fat bowl or organic Jack Herer.....very nice!

Anyways, a completely sealed room is really tricky. It's better, IMO, to have a sealed room when the lights are on, but have good air exchange and good filtration during the dark cycle. This is what all the really good growers I know do....give those plants oxygen during the darkcycle.

 

[Hash Hound]

Doc,

This seeded Afrodite KICKS A** !!!

Unfortunately it averages about 2/3 weed 1/3 seed, some more some less.

Can't wait to grow a few out to see how well the Querkle male did as a stud.

 

[Vapedogg223]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Plants consume Co2 when the lights are on, and use O2 when the lights are off.

However, they don't make enough O2 to be their own primary source of oxygen. Even in a sealed room, you need to freshen the air up during the dark cycle. I know people don't always do this, but the plants will be much happier if you do.

I have a carbon filter and fan that takes air from inside-out high in one corner, and a hepa filter and fan that brings air into the room at floor level in the opposite corner. These are shut off when the lights come on. They only run in the dark cycle. It keeps things fresh and clean and I've had no bugs to speak of or any PM issues or anyother disease for 3 grow cycles.

I'm probably jinxing myself, but I haven't even had a mite infestation in the new room yet....just a few on one plant that couldn't seem to do much damage, the plant was so dang healthy. Killed 'em all with a couple sprays of Dr. Doom.

I do hit incoming clones with a badass miticide, like floramite, Avid or Forbid......but none of my seed-grown plants have needed any spraying yet.

I'm rambling on here....smoke a nice fat bowl or organic Jack Herer.....very nice!

Anyways, a completely sealed room is really tricky. It's better, IMO, to have a sealed room when the lights are on, but have good air exchange and good filtration during the dark cycle. This is what all the really good growers I know do....give those plants oxygen during the darkcycle.

for that info! I wasn't sure just how much oxygen the roots actually need. If the folks you know running sealed rooms have it set up like that I sure they learned from experience, and it does It makes perfect sense. It's easy to add the ventilation now... It would have been a much bigger pain later!

Feel free to ramble away brother, It's your journal! Besides, I'm usually enjoying a bowl along with ya! I still can't wait to try some of these sativas I keep hearing about...

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

for that info! I wasn't sure just how much oxygen the roots actually need. If the folks you know running sealed rooms have it set up like that I sure they learned from experience, and it does It makes perfect sense. It's easy to add the ventilation now... It would have been a much bigger pain later!

Feel free to ramble away brother, It's your journal! Besides I'm usually enjoying a bowl along with ya! I still can't wait to try some of these sativas I keep hearing about...

The old school Sativa's are amazing. The Columbian Gold is just unbelieveable superb....people are going nuts over it.

I just had some of the Willie Nelson tonite and it's also amazing....gotta have some in a social setting and see what it does. This Saturday I'll have a chance to pass a few joints around at a small Christmas party....I already know what the Columbian will do....I'm curious to see what will happen with the Willie Nelson.

That's where the true power of a landrace Sativa comes in.....group dynamics. They are a party of happy people in herbal form. Feels great alone or with the wife for sure......but if you want to really understand what these Sativa's do, you need a crowd of "like minded" friends over.

 

[Vapedogg223]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

The old school Sativa's are amazing. The Columbian Gold is just unbelieveable superb....people are going nuts over it.

I just had some of the Willie Nelson tonite and it's also amazing....gotta have some in a social setting and see what it does. This Saturday I'll have a chance to pass a few joints around at a small Christmas party....I already know what the Columbian will do....I'm curious to see what will happen with the Willie Nelson.

That's where the true power of a landrace Sativa comes in.....group dynamics. They are a party of happy people in herbal form. Feels great alone or with the wife for sure......but if you want to really understand what these Sativa's do, you need a crowd of "like minded" friends over.

I can only imagine! Unfortunately, I would never be able to grow any of the landrace sativas, and I doubt I'll ever even get to try one. I think I'll have to settle for a hybrid.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

I can only imagine! Unfortunately, I would never be able to grow any of the landrace sativas, and I doubt I'll ever even get to try one. I think I'll have to settle for a hybrid.

Naw....just get a greenhouse! Set it up with a heater, dehum and plant 'em in July.

It can be done.....and you could be the guy to do it. Think of the service to mankind....

 

[R2MNot]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Even in a sealed room, you need to freshen the air up during the dark cycle. I know people don't always do this, but the plants will be much happier if you do.

Hi Doc. Great point thank you. Unless one has year round moderate outside temp/humidity wouldnt you need some kind of heat exchanger or ERV unit (Energy Recovery Ventillator) or at a minimum some kind of air mixing room to correct temp/humidity on incoming outside air.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc.

Hi Doc. Great point thank you. Unless one has year round moderate outside temp/humidity wouldnt you need some kind of heat exchanger or ERV unit (Energy Recovery Ventillator) or at a minimum some kind of air mixing room to correct temp/humidity on incoming outside air.

Yes....and no.....it depends.

In a largeish room, 12x12x8 or larger, You can bring fresh air into the room in small doses, like with a 450cfm fan, and have an efficient heater and good circulation in the room and it won't be a problem at all....unless you're pumping in 10 degree air with 20% humidity or something extreme like that. The larger volume of air in the grow room will mitigate the temps of fresh air coming in. Again, you only need to change it once an hour in a sealed room running C02 and only during the dark cycle.

In a small room it's much trickier and a mixing room is a great idea.

I grow in coastal California, so I'm lucky in that we've got a reasonable climate most of the time. My set up is also insulated box inside larger insulated box (building.) But if I was high in the mountains, with a small grow room, the big challenge would be humidity....keeping it from getting too low.

There are easy ways to deal with that using humidifiers......you just gotta take the time to get the room dialed in and not set it up like a stoner/hillbilly. Get the right gear and run the lights for a few days, logging temps and Rh and figure things out BEFORE you have any plants.

Diligence with regard to the environment is the single most important thing you can do towards being a successful grower.

 

[R2MNot]

Thanks Doc

 

[fncg]

Speaking of growing conditions... Doc, you were right about the increased temperatures under the lights driving down RH numbers. The space my new girls are in is now sitting at about 80f and 40-45% rh during lights-on. Thanks!