Defoliation opinions

[cr8grow]

I’m seeking trimming opinions which I know will vary for this My second grow. My primary objective this time around is plant vigor with longer veg to support much higher yield in my 3x3 cabinet. My approach this grow has been no leaf will be removed unless its dirty or worn out, let the plant feed off it and let it drop. By now Ive removed the original giant fans mostly and some spent leaves. I’m loosely following “Organic Marijuana Soma Style” which would have me remove about 1/3 of the lower spindly branches and leaves week 3 of flower. This seems reasonable to me, but, things are getting pretty crowded in there. My biggest concern is stressing the plants impacting yield. I have good light penetration, also good airflow and circulation but know issues can crop up with molds, etc. Pictures are Corleone Kush day 53, vegged for six weeks from seed, now 1.5 weeks since flip to 12/12. First pistils appeared this morning...stretching nicely now. I don’t think I should wait too much longer to do some trimming.

 

[Dankman_420]

Nice looking crop! I usually take off bottoms at the end of stretch. I don't go crazy. Just enough for good air flow. Leafs are the plants solar panels. So I leave most on. When they fade and die off I pluck them

 

[BakedARea]

Beautiful looking ladies BTW. Looking forward to reading the responses from those with more wisdom.

My thoughts would be that you can do some minor defoliation below the canopy so that they can focus their efforts on your flower instead of trying to keep the lower canopy happy and healthy since it is not getting as much energy/light. You are relatively early in flower so they are still growing and stretching for a little while longer. You still have a buffer of time. I'm just not positive how much time you have. Hopefully someone chimes in with more experience. Good luck!

 

[bobrown14]

Nice looking crop! I usually take off bottoms at the end of stretch. I don't go crazy. Just enough for good air flow. Leafs are the plants solar panels. So I leave most on. When they fade and die off I pluck them

This ^^^ I remove lower smallish branches in VEG to avoid stress in flower.

I do not remove fan leaves unless attached to those few lower branches.

A great time to do this is when you up-pot to the final container. Get all the stress out of the way before flower and you're golden.

@cr8grow you mentioned leaving on all the leaves at the beginning of your post then went on to mention:

"By now Ive removed the original giant fans mostly and some spent leaves."

So confusing.... maybe you did that last grow and aren't doing it this run??

 

[Scottylikesbud]

Yeah I was pretty big on defoliation early on in my attempts at soil, but with a dwc system, and watching my first harvest, I wouldn’t suggest it. You say you have got good penetration so I wouldn’t be to worried.

I didn’t defoliate this plant in flower, but I did go through removing lower new branches and a whole sh1t ton of leaves before flipping, maybe the lower half? But with my two new plants going intoflower now, I’m going to try the non defoliate route, just a lot more supercropping,
All that lower growth just ended up growing anyhow, be it a lot slower, but surely still growing, they look way lighter in color, and a bit fluffy, but what the hell its still bud, and I liked it.
After 6 long months I want all the buds I can get big, lil, Larfy, or dense. A lot better then buying some small buds from that one dealer in town. But yeah I felt like kicking myself for removing some smaller branches last go round, as the entire plant just budded up, even deep within that plant. Not getting direct light. So you asked for an opinion and here is mine. If you want to defoliate, go for it I did. But I’m going to try restraining myself this go. And watch her grow out patiently

 

[cr8grow]

bb14, I see where my comments are contradictory. The couple big fans I removed from each...some just only recently were finally crispy or had nute issues or in the dirt. The few spent leaves are deep down and yellow and I pulled only when they were falling off. Thanks for the feedback on your timing to defoliate and technique. Pistils just showed yesterday...leaning towards thinning this weekend.

 

[AdaminCO]

I’m seeking trimming opinions which I know will vary for this My second grow. My primary objective this time around is plant vigor with longer veg to support much higher yield in my 3x3 cabinet. My approach this grow has been no leaf will be removed unless its dirty or worn out, let the plant feed off it and let it drop. By now Ive removed the original giant fans mostly and some spent leaves. I’m loosely following “Organic Marijuana Soma Style” which would have me remove about 1/3 of the lower spindly branches and leaves week 3 of flower. This seems reasonable to me, but, things are getting pretty crowded in there. My biggest concern is stressing the plants impacting yield. I have good light penetration, also good airflow and circulation but know issues can crop up with molds, etc. Pictures are Corleone Kush day 53, vegged for six weeks from seed, now 1.5 weeks since flip to 12/12. First pistils appeared this morning...stretching nicely now. I don’t think I should wait too much longer to do some trimming.

I would not trim again until after the stretch. They are probably pushing their strongest right now at stretch, and disrupting that will surly mess with growth.

Good rule of thumb is trim clones a week before flip, then again after the stretch.Typically 3 weeks or so after flip. You never want to trim fans from a bud site, that is the buds energy supply. If there is a fan under another node, to another set of fans, then the bud, those are okay to trim when necessary.

 

[bobrown14]

bb14, I see where my comments are contradictory. The couple big fans I removed from each...some just only recently were finally crispy or had nute issues or in the dirt. The few spent leaves are deep down and yellow and I pulled only when they were falling off. Thanks for the feedback on your timing to defoliate and technique. Pistils just showed yesterday...leaning towards thinning this weekend.

Yeah good time. Stress is real so go easy. Best to do a little at a time but not over a long time period. The plants are very sensitive to change right now in early flower. This is when they will herm or grow male bits if stressed. So there's that. Just go easy you'll be fine.

Always keep vegetation off the soil line, this keeps the air flowing. Defoil is just not good practice for promoting growth or anything really. But taking off a fan leaf here or there won't hurt much.

The fan leaves have growth hormones in them and how the plant communicates its growth are those hormones. How plants know how to grow towards the light if shaded as just 1 example.

Air flow is VERY important so get a fan or 2 on the soil line it will promote good air flow and help a lot with transpiration.

 

[SamSmith]

Air flow is VERY important so get a fan or 2 on the soil line it will promote good air flow and help a lot with transpiration.

This is important when you have the plants crammed in a tent. I only run 4 plants in a 4X4. For airflow I run a separate 4" inline fan running full blast ducted into the tent at the bottom so that it blows are all around the pot area and up. I also run another 6" ossilating fan directed at the top of the pots below the line that I strip the plants. I run (3) 6" monkey clip on fans on the canopy and a 6" inline fan with my carbon filter for extraction. It's real easy to get mold in dead spots in the tent. Especially where the plant touches the sides of the tent.

In a larger tent I would say to go a little on the easy side. I am a propoent of stripping them after 3 weeks or so from the flip or when they are basically done stretching. In a small tent you have to have some kind of balance so I would thin them out a little more.

 

[bobrown14]

I don't run a "crammed tent". I have more space and less plants than 4 plants per 4x4 space.

"stripping" plants in flower is super stressful on the plants. Food for thought.

Hermie - how are ya?

 

[SamSmith]

Don't know what to tell you either other than I have done it that way for as far as I can remember and haven't seen a hermie yet. Other than two GDP mutants that obviously had larger issues. Check out aseineo's thread. He just stripped his and I don't know if too many growers that can stand up to his grows. His yields are beyond most members in 4x4 tents he strips them down way more than I do.

 

[AdaminCO]

Yeah but most peoples plants aren’t anywhere close to that healthy either.

If when asked, we told every novice grower that stripping a plant is the way to go... we’d have a lot of pissed off people.

The leafs really help the plant when it’s not fed properly and has some sort of micro deficiency.

Dudes past plants are freakin impressive as he’ll though!

When I finally get my growing style down I’ll get brave and start experimenting. I’m running MC for the first time, and there’s definitely a bit of a learning curve when you try to get creative with it. Lol!

I won’t run 5 different strains at once again with a synthetic nute line. Hell of a lot easier doing multiple strains in LOS.

 

[SamSmith]

I dunno. I get what you are saying from giving advice to newbies but not thinning plants in a tent like that is asking for mold issues.

These are 2 1/2 weeks into flower and jsut stripped 3 days ago. They are anything but stressed and based on past grows will only get better from here.

GG 4-17-2020.jpg

• SamSmith
• Apr 17, 2020

GG tops 4-17-2020.jpg

• SamSmith
• Apr 17, 2020

BCP tops 4-17-2020.jpg

• SamSmith
• Apr 17, 2020

 

[AdaminCO]

Ive toyed around with it a bit, I just don’t get too carried away as some.

I did very little on this run...
(current week 5/6)

 

[SamSmith]

I have always done it. The plants in the front are indica leaning so I was easy on them. The ones in back are sativa leaning and are butched up much higher. I would have to see if I can find some shots of my last grow. I got a pound and a half out of a 4x4 on a sativa grow. These are doing well for only 2 1/2 weeks. Like I said not stressed. Do they look that way to you?

The ones you posted are pretty far along in the top and bottom picture.

There is one tent shot from a previous grow I found. Again not stressed and no hermies. When they are packed in a 4x4 that tight (4 plants) you have to thin them out. The OP is only in a 3X3. He is in for trouble if he doesn't do some thinning.

Tent 1-6-2019.jpg

• SamSmith
• Apr 17, 2020

 

[AdaminCO]

Oh the ones up top was last years winter grow, the lower one is going now. I believe I’m coming up on week 6 from first flower.

Up top the Afghans and the AKs were 120-150g per, but the Jacks were closer to 170g per. They vegged for 90 days or so trying to fill that SCROG, Then I got a gnarly case of spider mites, so I had to rip out the net.

I almost chopped the whole grow but rolled with it. Turned out really good.

 

[safeman]

Yeah good time. Stress is real so go easy. Best to do a little at a time but not over a long time period. The plants are very sensitive to change right now in early flower. This is when they will herm or grow male bits if stressed. So there's that. Just go easy you'll be fine.

Always keep vegetation off the soil line, this keeps the air flowing. Defoil is just not good practice for promoting growth or anything really. But taking off a fan leaf here or there won't hurt much.

The fan leaves have growth hormones in them and how the plant communicates its growth are those hormones. How plants know how to grow towards the light if shaded as just 1 example.

Air flow is VERY important so get a fan or 2 on the soil line it will promote good air flow and help a lot with transpiration.

l Lets face it - if growing indoors one need to do some defoliation be-it either a "heavy"defoliation or "Light" defoliation. LIke to thin out on week 4 of veg and then right before you do a 12/12 flip then once in flower at week 4.

 

[bobrown14]

Don't know what to tell you either other than I have done it that way for as far as I can remember and haven't seen a hermie yet. Other than two GDP mutants that obviously had larger issues. Check out aseineo's thread. He just stripped his and I don't know if too many growers that can stand up to his grows. His yields are beyond most members in 4x4 tents he strips them down way more than I do.

Doing something for ever doesn't mean much really. Basically it gets down to your opinion about defoliation. Its bro science.

I have found 1 or 2 places where defoil works. This is in the grape industry (viticulture) when the grapes are ripening the farmers will defoil a little bit around the fruit clusters to promote sun ripening of FRUIT on the vine and it helps with PM (air flow) around the fruit clusters.

Yields gets down to genetics given everything else the same. Has nothing to do with defoil or not defoil. Thats just the science and common sense TBH.

That and please explain how yields (biomass) goes up in relation to removing biomass from a plant at the same time?? Sounds like we are in new dimension where physics and science are no longer required or even thought about.

You do understand the function of fan leaves or leaves in general right?
If you notice down there VVVV where it says evaporation that = TRANSPIRATION and how plants move nutrients from the roots to the shoots, and the leaves direct this flow via PGR's. Gets back to growing toward the sun and other cool stuff.

Here I will help with this question:

 

[bobrown14]

l Lets face it - if growing indoors one need to do some defoliation be-it either a "heavy"defoliation or "Light" defoliation. LIke to thin out on week 4 of veg and then right before you do a 12/12 flip then once in flower at week 4.

I clean out the lower branches to keep leaves from touching the soil line in VEG. This promotes healthy plants (no soil pathogens on the leaves). I don't do anything to plants in flower stake them up maybe supercrop if they are in the lights.

Show me some science on defoliation and how it would help with anything plant related I'm all ear and eyes. I've looked just in case I'm missing something important. So maybe you will have better luck with your searching and reading.

 

[safeman]

rule for defoliation: defoliate when the area you defoliate is 2x's bigger then the leaf being removed