Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
Once you go LOS you never go back.
DeeCee’s Living Organics Garden: No Tillin’
- Thread starter DeeCee112
- Start date
You're killing us with good info here!
I try to stay clear of oil sprays once I see pistils, so where I might alternate Safers and neem in veg, I put the neem away once flowering starts.
Also, I'm a bit more precise with my citric acid spray, making a 1% solution (i.e. 5g in 500ml distilled water) and add a tiny bit of dish soap as a surfactant - though aloe or yucca will work as well.
I try to stay clear of oil sprays once I see pistils, so where I might alternate Safers and neem in veg, I put the neem away once flowering starts.
Also, I'm a bit more precise with my citric acid spray, making a 1% solution (i.e. 5g in 500ml distilled water) and add a tiny bit of dish soap as a surfactant - though aloe or yucca will work as well.
Great update DeeCee, really useful information that you're gathering and presenting. Plants are looking really healthy and lush! Great stuff! 
- Thread starter
- #44
So far so good anyway
Good catches Shed, I’ve edited and updated the post, thanks for the clarification
Great update DeeCee, really useful information that you're gathering and presenting. Plants are looking really healthy and lush! Great stuff!
Thanks Stunger, I always seem to struggle a bit in late veg and I can say that is not the case this time. Lush is the right word all right!
- Thread starter
- #45
First things first some pictures this time before I blab on!
Trainwreck
Right before my baby crawled over and pulled on one of the ties, splitting the main stem in two!
It’s all good though, having been through a couple breaks before - I snipped some aloe leaf, sliced it open, covered the wound in the gel, taped her up and twisted a soft tie sling along around it to support. She’ll do fine I’m sure it always amazes me how well these plants can recover. I’ve applied my first aid skills learned from cannabis to my cucumber and tomatoes plants to great success as well!
You may also notice she is growing 5 fingered leaves instead of 7. My friends have some clones of this strain and they are doing the same so it may just be in the genetics, not sure I haven’t seen this before! You can see the Sativa leaning genes as well with the skinnier fingers.
Blue Gelato
This is before adjusting and adding ties. Very pretty, beautiful green tops looking symmetrical and even!
After some pruning and training:
She looks rough but it’s all worth it and in a couple days the top view will look good again but with twice as many tops!
The lead shoots are all brought out wider than the pot, opening up the middle for the smaller shoots to have a go at dominance. When hooking on ties push the stem down manually a few times feeling it out before attaching anything, and always ensure you do not go beyond parallel to the ground. I find only topping once and using ties to be the absolute best method of training for increased yields and better airflow through the plant. Whether you use quadlining or keep more nodes it doesn’t matter the key is to keep everything even, never letting any branch get away.
This will be a challenging grow to train with the size of these plants and the fact that they will veg for a good month and a half or more still! If these were in my 5x5 tent they’d already be bigger than any plant I’ve vegged before right now!
NL
She’s a stretchy girl, has been since seedling. After seeing this I’m more convinced that if your seedling stretches at germination it will carry that tendency to stretch through its life. It s key when germinating to have a good light intensity! Because I let the shoots get so tall I used bamboo stakes to secure my plant ties to which will also support the branches down the road when they are loaded with bud!
Pineapple Express # 4
She is going head to head with the Gelato for best growing plant! I am really happy with her so far. I can’t believe these plants were completely stunted and about to be tosses a few weeks ago!
I am doing a little less training on her as she seems to be doing quite well growing evenly in her own.
Aside from two compost tea applications the 20gal girls have had nothing but tap water with a pinch of vitamin c powder and saponin! The NL is the 5gal just got a couple tablespoon Gaia Green top dress of 4-4-4 all purpose. She’ll get another in 3 weeks.
Trainwreck
Right before my baby crawled over and pulled on one of the ties, splitting the main stem in two!
It’s all good though, having been through a couple breaks before - I snipped some aloe leaf, sliced it open, covered the wound in the gel, taped her up and twisted a soft tie sling along around it to support. She’ll do fine I’m sure it always amazes me how well these plants can recover. I’ve applied my first aid skills learned from cannabis to my cucumber and tomatoes plants to great success as well!
You may also notice she is growing 5 fingered leaves instead of 7. My friends have some clones of this strain and they are doing the same so it may just be in the genetics, not sure I haven’t seen this before! You can see the Sativa leaning genes as well with the skinnier fingers.
Blue Gelato
This is before adjusting and adding ties. Very pretty, beautiful green tops looking symmetrical and even!
After some pruning and training:
She looks rough but it’s all worth it and in a couple days the top view will look good again but with twice as many tops!
The lead shoots are all brought out wider than the pot, opening up the middle for the smaller shoots to have a go at dominance. When hooking on ties push the stem down manually a few times feeling it out before attaching anything, and always ensure you do not go beyond parallel to the ground. I find only topping once and using ties to be the absolute best method of training for increased yields and better airflow through the plant. Whether you use quadlining or keep more nodes it doesn’t matter the key is to keep everything even, never letting any branch get away.
This will be a challenging grow to train with the size of these plants and the fact that they will veg for a good month and a half or more still! If these were in my 5x5 tent they’d already be bigger than any plant I’ve vegged before right now!
NL
She’s a stretchy girl, has been since seedling. After seeing this I’m more convinced that if your seedling stretches at germination it will carry that tendency to stretch through its life. It s key when germinating to have a good light intensity! Because I let the shoots get so tall I used bamboo stakes to secure my plant ties to which will also support the branches down the road when they are loaded with bud!
Pineapple Express # 4
She is going head to head with the Gelato for best growing plant! I am really happy with her so far. I can’t believe these plants were completely stunted and about to be tosses a few weeks ago!
I am doing a little less training on her as she seems to be doing quite well growing evenly in her own.
Aside from two compost tea applications the 20gal girls have had nothing but tap water with a pinch of vitamin c powder and saponin! The NL is the 5gal just got a couple tablespoon Gaia Green top dress of 4-4-4 all purpose. She’ll get another in 3 weeks.
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
Looking really nice.
Large pots of good soil is a good healer.
Might be a good idea to put the pots on pot elevators if they're not already, kinda looks like they might be but not sure, to get airflow under it, better drainage, 30% more air pruning and prevents the roots from growing through the pots into the ground.
The Blue Gelato may end up with huge 2 foot plus long spears.
Large pots of good soil is a good healer.
Might be a good idea to put the pots on pot elevators if they're not already, kinda looks like they might be but not sure, to get airflow under it, better drainage, 30% more air pruning and prevents the roots from growing through the pots into the ground.
The Blue Gelato may end up with huge 2 foot plus long spears.
- Thread starter
- #47
I have an old wooden shelf I’ve been meaning to take apart and repurpose into pot elevators, thanks for the reminder I think today may be the day!
Blue Gelato indeed means business!
Blue Gelato indeed means business!
Cmoneywills
Well-Known Member
They look great, enjoyings the show and the blabbing onFirst things first some pictures this time before I blab on!
Trainwreck
Right before my baby crawled over and pulled on one of the ties, splitting the main stem in two!
It’s all good though, having been through a couple breaks before - I snipped some aloe leaf, sliced it open, covered the wound in the gel, taped her up and twisted a soft tie sling along around it to support. She’ll do fine I’m sure it always amazes me how well these plants can recover. I’ve applied my first aid skills learned from cannabis to my cucumber and tomatoes plants to great success as well!
You may also notice she is growing 5 fingered leaves instead of 7. My friends have some clones of this strain and they are doing the same so it may just be in the genetics, not sure I haven’t seen this before! You can see the Sativa leaning genes as well with the skinnier fingers.
Blue Gelato
This is before adjusting and adding ties. Very pretty, beautiful green tops looking symmetrical and even!
After some pruning and training:
She looks rough but it’s all worth it and in a couple days the top view will look good again but with twice as many tops!
The lead shoots are all brought out wider than the pot, opening up the middle for the smaller shoots to have a go at dominance. When hooking on ties push the stem down manually a few times feeling it out before attaching anything, and always ensure you do not go beyond parallel to the ground. I find only topping once and using ties to be the absolute best method of training for increased yields and better airflow through the plant. Whether you use quadlining or keep more nodes it doesn’t matter the key is to keep everything even, never letting any branch get away.
This will be a challenging grow to train with the size of these plants and the fact that they will veg for a good month and a half or more still! If these were in my 5x5 tent they’d already be bigger than any plant I’ve vegged before right now!
NL
She’s a stretchy girl, has been since seedling. After seeing this I’m more convinced that if your seedling stretches at germination it will carry that tendency to stretch through its life. It s key when germinating to have a good light intensity! Because I let the shoots get so tall I used bamboo stakes to secure my plant ties to which will also support the branches down the road when they are loaded with bud!
Pineapple Express # 4
She is going head to head with the Gelato for best growing plant! I am really happy with her so far. I can’t believe these plants were completely stunted and about to be tosses a few weeks ago!
I am doing a little less training on her as she seems to be doing quite well growing evenly in her own.
Aside from two compost tea applications the 20gal girls have had nothing but tap water with a pinch of vitamin c powder and saponin! The NL is the 5gal just got a couple tablespoon Gaia Green top dress of 4-4-4 all purpose. She’ll get another in 3 weeks.
Following along with my living soil raised flowerbed as well so im lovin the info.
Wow DeeCee, I missed your heads up! Glad I came over to see what you're up to! Keep bringing on the goodness!
- Thread starter
- #50
Welcome aboard CMoney! Hope you can find some useful info! This is my first grow with LOS but I’ve been researching it for months, so far so good!They look great, enjoyings the show and the blabbing on
Good to have a seasoned (award winning) organic growing like yourself as well SO!
- Thread starter
- #51
@Amy Gardner here is the extract I use for the saponin. I mixed it into my soil and add a pinch to the can every watering. 
And a visitor I found today:
And a visitor I found today:
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
That is the weaker and dry version of what I use.
I use Thermx 70 which is 20% saponins.
And hopefully you don't have too many of those Japanese Beetles, they'll eat everything.
I use Thermx 70 which is 20% saponins.
And hopefully you don't have too many of those Japanese Beetles, they'll eat everything.
The plants look amazing DC! And in addition to not letting a branch get away from you, keep an eye on the little ones crawling around. 
I'd like to point out that some forms of LST rely on getting the apical tip lower than the nodes below it, which will - by design - cause it to be beyond parallel to the ground. Even on my plants that are topped and trained flat, I will often tie the top two nodes beyond parallel to get the lowers on those branches to take off.
- Thread starter
- #54
Yea I did cheap out but it does the job and there’s enough in the bag to use extra to make up for less potency but still have like a lifetime supply!
Havnt seen any others yet but I will keep an eye out!
The plants look amazing DC! And in addition to not letting a branch get away from you, keep an eye on the little ones crawling around.
I'd like to point out that some forms of LST relies on getting the apical tip lower than the nodes below it, which will - by design - cause it to be beyond parallel to the ground. Even on my plants that are topped and trained flat, I will often tie the top two nodes beyond parallel to get the lowers on those branches to take off.
Fair enough! I remember reading this point when I was first learning how to train - that it is detrimental to go past parallel into a downward slope, something about the auxins negatively affected. I’ve always achieved what I wanted by going up to, but not past, parallel, even when bending the main stem over pretty much 90 degrees so I’ve never tested it but sounds like you have!
Having said that would you say that it is less desirable and should be avoided, unless specifically required, or did you never really see any issues when doing it?
I've never had any issue with it, and it's the fastest way to drive the auxins to the lower growth. I'm not too far off parallel, but I definitely want it lower to trick the plant that it has no apical top.
I can see why some folks might have a tendency to snap off a branch that way though!
This top is below parallel:
And it ended up looking like this at harvest:
I can see why some folks might have a tendency to snap off a branch that way though!
This top is below parallel:
And it ended up looking like this at harvest:
- Thread starter
- #56
I have one of those as well! Not quite to that level though, but it did turn out great, instead of topping and splitting the top two shoots.
I'd probably just LST all my plants if it didn't make them too wide to get through the door twice a day!
- Thread starter
- #58
@InTheShed I stumbled on this website today while doing some research, I feel like you would appreciate it!
Garden Myths
Garden Myths
Great site! I've linked to his article on organic vs synthetic nutrients before. Excellent resource. 
- Thread starter
- #60
Good morning 420!
Now that we are all caught up to the present with the garden you can follow along as I fake it or make it through this no till experience!
Top Dressing
Today I am top dressing my pots. It would be a little early to add anything however I looked up my last outdoor grow and the first pic I found showing pistils was Aug 19. That means I have a month and a half of veg left. If these girls were in my tent I would’ve literally flipped a over week ago already! This concerns me because as I stated before in no till you need to maintain a nutrient level in your pots which is why everyone recommends going with at least 15 gallons of soil so that you don’t drain your battery to the point of needing a replacement!
I totally underestimated the power of this soil, and did not expect growth like this. In organics I’ve read over and over that one of the keys is to stay ahead of your garden. Unlike synthetic feedings which are immediately available organic feedings can take weeks to become available to your plant so you need to plan and stay ahead of your plants needs.
So all that being said I am about 3.5weeks since transplant and I will be top dressing. Disclaimer: I am in uncharted territory for myself!
I have a basic level of understanding of organic amendments, but part of why I enjoy this so much is that it is forgiving and you can play around with it and figure things out for yourself without constantly having to worry about burning your plants!
So here is the top dress I put together with what I think they’ll be doing:
Top Dress Base
1 cup kelp meal
Basically organic growers top amendment for its mystical trace minerals and all around goodness.
1/2 cup karanja meal 4.5-.5-1.25
Good NPK, great disease, pathogen and pest deterrent. Is almost identical to Neem, if I hadn’t of ran out of Neem I’d be mixing 50/50 with it. I went down to 1/2cup as I’ve been sprinkling this on top weekly as part of my IPM.
1 cup crab meal- 4-3-0
NP, great source of calcium and chitin. Chitin is good, the microbes that break it down also work on hard insect bodies, so pest deterrent as well.
1 cup malted barley flour
I don’t have a lot here on this other than it’s an excellent source of enzymes and microorganism food.
1 cup glacial rock dust
Your go to trace mineral source.
3/4 cup gypsum
It’s no secret cannabis loves calcium. Gypsum will help supply a lot of it, as well as some sulfur
Veg Add On 1 cup per cup of base
Alfalfa meal - 3-0-2
Good source of quickly available nitrogen, potassium and calcium and apparently Triacontanol. This is a natural growth hormone that may aid your plants to grow larger and thicker. If true - exactly what we want in veg!
Flower Add 1/2 cup per cup of base
Fishbone meal 6-18-0
Powerhouse phosphorus source that breaks down much faster than the phosphate rock dusts. Go easy here, so I’ve read, hence the 1/2cup only.
Langbenite (K-Mag) 0-0-22
I don’t have this in hand yet and not sure I’m going to add it, need to do more research as I may still be too caught up in the NPK world by seeing that my mixture lacks a good K number in anything. This is a water soluble source of high potassium, magnesium and sulfur. Not sure the rate to use yet.
It is basically my soil building recipe as a base, because obviously it is working and in good balance but minus the oyster shell flour which I ran out of and the basalt. My thinking is going heavier on the amendments than the minerals as they get used up more, then adding in a couple powerhouses depending on veg or bloom in a higher amount than the base. Am I right? No idea!
Alright I have a busy morning ahead, I’ll throw together a shorter more picture filled update later documenting how to properly apply this top dress! Enjoy your Saturday!
Now that we are all caught up to the present with the garden you can follow along as I fake it or make it through this no till experience!
Top Dressing
Today I am top dressing my pots. It would be a little early to add anything however I looked up my last outdoor grow and the first pic I found showing pistils was Aug 19. That means I have a month and a half of veg left. If these girls were in my tent I would’ve literally flipped a over week ago already! This concerns me because as I stated before in no till you need to maintain a nutrient level in your pots which is why everyone recommends going with at least 15 gallons of soil so that you don’t drain your battery to the point of needing a replacement!
I totally underestimated the power of this soil, and did not expect growth like this. In organics I’ve read over and over that one of the keys is to stay ahead of your garden. Unlike synthetic feedings which are immediately available organic feedings can take weeks to become available to your plant so you need to plan and stay ahead of your plants needs.
So all that being said I am about 3.5weeks since transplant and I will be top dressing. Disclaimer: I am in uncharted territory for myself!
I have a basic level of understanding of organic amendments, but part of why I enjoy this so much is that it is forgiving and you can play around with it and figure things out for yourself without constantly having to worry about burning your plants!
So here is the top dress I put together with what I think they’ll be doing:
Top Dress Base
1 cup kelp meal
Basically organic growers top amendment for its mystical trace minerals and all around goodness.
1/2 cup karanja meal 4.5-.5-1.25
Good NPK, great disease, pathogen and pest deterrent. Is almost identical to Neem, if I hadn’t of ran out of Neem I’d be mixing 50/50 with it. I went down to 1/2cup as I’ve been sprinkling this on top weekly as part of my IPM.
1 cup crab meal- 4-3-0
NP, great source of calcium and chitin. Chitin is good, the microbes that break it down also work on hard insect bodies, so pest deterrent as well.
1 cup malted barley flour
I don’t have a lot here on this other than it’s an excellent source of enzymes and microorganism food.
1 cup glacial rock dust
Your go to trace mineral source.
3/4 cup gypsum
It’s no secret cannabis loves calcium. Gypsum will help supply a lot of it, as well as some sulfur
Veg Add On 1 cup per cup of base
Alfalfa meal - 3-0-2
Good source of quickly available nitrogen, potassium and calcium and apparently Triacontanol. This is a natural growth hormone that may aid your plants to grow larger and thicker. If true - exactly what we want in veg!
Flower Add 1/2 cup per cup of base
Fishbone meal 6-18-0
Powerhouse phosphorus source that breaks down much faster than the phosphate rock dusts. Go easy here, so I’ve read, hence the 1/2cup only.
Langbenite (K-Mag) 0-0-22
I don’t have this in hand yet and not sure I’m going to add it, need to do more research as I may still be too caught up in the NPK world by seeing that my mixture lacks a good K number in anything. This is a water soluble source of high potassium, magnesium and sulfur. Not sure the rate to use yet.
It is basically my soil building recipe as a base, because obviously it is working and in good balance but minus the oyster shell flour which I ran out of and the basalt. My thinking is going heavier on the amendments than the minerals as they get used up more, then adding in a couple powerhouses depending on veg or bloom in a higher amount than the base. Am I right? No idea!
Alright I have a busy morning ahead, I’ll throw together a shorter more picture filled update later documenting how to properly apply this top dress! Enjoy your Saturday!
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