CCOiler
Well-Known Member
Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction
Skullman420
Well-Known Member
Decarb and keeping the terpenes profiles seems to be opposites to me. I'll explain - Every time I decarb in the oven, the smell and taste get severely altered. Is it because I am decarbing it fresh? Would it be able to keep the lovely smells if I cured it first?
- Thread starter
- #23
The smell is caused by terpenes, which will evaporate away when we decarb in the oven. No way to avoid that, apparently. The thought is decarbing in oil may save more terpenes. With low and slo dried buds infused into, say the 36-hour infused oil at a low temperature, you should be able to keep most of them locked in the oil.
Skullman420
Well-Known Member
The natural question then is of course how low can we go and still get a satisfying decarb of the material?
ginganinja30
Well-Known Member
I'll take a seat at the back of the class for this one folks if that's cool with everyone.
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Lady Dory
Well-Known Member
Sweet Sue,
I just had a few squishy's swim by... and caught wisp of an idea...
Would it be possible to help Canyon and Kickinitup by setting up a go-fund-me, to help defray costs for lab work? I know the tests aren't cheap so if we are all going to benefit from their lab work shouldn't we all chip in to assist them?
Just a thought!
Friends helping friends...
Dory
I just had a few squishy's swim by... and caught wisp of an idea...
Would it be possible to help Canyon and Kickinitup by setting up a go-fund-me, to help defray costs for lab work? I know the tests aren't cheap so if we are all going to benefit from their lab work shouldn't we all chip in to assist them?
Just a thought!
Friends helping friends...
Dory
I was thinking a similar idea Dory, but yers is better
I'd be up to chip in for sure if funds are needed for testing
What says you crew?????
- Thread starter
- #28
It's a function of time and temperature. It'll be nice to have some real-world numbers to work from. Lab results come from a place of strict environmental control, something few of us have going on in our kitchens.
- Thread starter
- #29
This was something we'd talked about - dreamed about is more like it. We simply haven't pinned down the best way to set up such a fund, but if we could figure it out we could funnel funds to members for testing costs and accelerate the learning curve. We're certainly open to suggestions. There's tremendous potential in such a venture. We have so many directions testing could take us, so many fine points that could be ironed out. As we all know, testing ain't cheap.
GoFundMe is a good Option, ive never used it myself, maybe I should for my Carribean Bed n Breakfast I NEED
Another one, easy to track, not sure if you can track GoFundMe, is just Paypal. we could send @Canyon or who ever is doing the testing Funds, then if and when its complete, funds could be dispersed back to who paid in, or, used for the next Group Project. Also say SuperSue is doing some testing, we can funnel her some funds as well thru PayPal
Kinda like a Co-Op. As in most Co-op, not everyone can afford to donate $$, but many can donate Ideas, Time, Floor Mopping, etc
Fun Fun Fun
P.S
My testing Kit lands Monday
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Now just an observation that Created a Question For me @SweetSue @Kicknitup1 @Canyon
I dont see any CBD in the Nightmare Cookies. Are we assuming they will react the same in the decarb process, or, will we plan a Test on a Higher CBD strain in the future, I assume the later is the case
Excited to watch, learn and Help if I can
I'm not sure that they have an exactly parallel relationship when it comes to decarb. But that will have to be a test for another day. Definitely should be more study.
Thanks Oiler,
I was so tempted to post your comments on evaporation and boiling points from Sues' oil thread here. It is a great write up. Would you post it here please?
Do you think decarbing in oil or using a pressure cooker with or without oil is worth exploring to help retain more terpenes than oven drying?
I think both are, however I would like to hear what others think.
I think Kickingitup1 will be testing a standalone machine that decarbs dry material in a chamber with tight temperature and time control.
I never know
Just thinking,
It's a stretch to say that we are going to be ahead of Big Pharm with anything we find. It is also unrealistic to expect Big Pharm to publish their research for us.
I would like the thread to run more like an open source research project where multiple members contribute what they have to offer. It is a numbers game.
Kicknitup1 and I are fine with what we have committed to. If the thread survives the next few weeks and there is interest in going beyond what we are doing now, I have something I want to get Sues' thoughts on and make sure we don't break any site rules that would help spread some cost around.
There is a bymonthly trade publication I picked up at the testing lab called "Terpenes and Testing". Shorten that up and add a .com, and you are at their site. Their subtitle is "and everything extractions" I have only skimmed there site so far. There is a lot of info there. The magazine is a winner as well. I will probably subscribe to it if I don't score another issue when I drop off samples in August.
I never know
It's a stretch to say that we are going to be ahead of Big Pharm with anything we find. It is also unrealistic to expect Big Pharm to publish their research for us.
I would like the thread to run more like an open source research project where multiple members contribute what they have to offer. It is a numbers game.
Kicknitup1 and I are fine with what we have committed to. If the thread survives the next few weeks and there is interest in going beyond what we are doing now, I have something I want to get Sues' thoughts on and make sure we don't break any site rules that would help spread some cost around.
There is a bymonthly trade publication I picked up at the testing lab called "Terpenes and Testing". Shorten that up and add a .com, and you are at their site. Their subtitle is "and everything extractions" I have only skimmed there site so far. There is a lot of info there. The magazine is a winner as well. I will probably subscribe to it if I don't score another issue when I drop off samples in August.
I never know
Lady Antheia
Well-Known Member
That's a great site, Canyon. Thanks for sharing!
Forgive the copy and past. I am not sure how to quote a post from another thread. If the images are missing the post is here. DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest
Re: DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest
Re: DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest
I had some test run on some Low-n-Slow dried buds for another thread that the cannabinoid results are indicating that there is nearly no degrade from what fresh just cut material would contain.
I did not air dry any of it other than what I consumed while it was drying. So I am afraid I have nothing to compare it to.
I have a terpene test also. It is too early to draw conclusions but there may be more loss of terpenes through evaporation in the L-n-S dry than we though. This is based only by comparing air dried 80/20 sativa Ghost train to 80/20 sativa Nightmare Cookies that was L-n-S dried. The air dried sample contained nearly 4 times the total terpenes.
Has anyone run any same plant samples on any strain comparing air dried to L-n-S dried? If anyone can come up with that information before August 16th it will be a huge help.
@Pennywise liked this postI did not air dry any of it other than what I consumed while it was drying. So I am afraid I have nothing to compare it to.
I have a terpene test also. It is too early to draw conclusions but there may be more loss of terpenes through evaporation in the L-n-S dry than we though. This is based only by comparing air dried 80/20 sativa Ghost train to 80/20 sativa Nightmare Cookies that was L-n-S dried. The air dried sample contained nearly 4 times the total terpenes.
Has anyone run any same plant samples on any strain comparing air dried to L-n-S dried? If anyone can come up with that information before August 16th it will be a huge help.
Oldbear
Well-Known Member
I have results from a low tech experiment I can share:
The short storey is I baked 2 identical 10g samples in 125 ml baby mason jars. Covered with EVOO and LSL
One was left open to the air, the other had a tin foil cover with the lid turned on and one teeny pin hole in the foil for pressure release.
There is no question that the pin hole batch smells and tastes stronger / better than the open to air version. Also both taste and smell better than open to air dry decarbing.
Another measure is the volume of terpene smell that escapes the toaster oven. Much much less with the pin hole option. It doesn't stink up the house.
Final thing is that the effects are noticeably stronger with the 'terpene retained' batch but couldnt put a number to it.
Conclusion is that wet cannabis decarbing in an almost closed container gives the best retention of the good stuff. (based on this very limited test run)
So simple and easy to do. Applicable to any size mason jar / closable container. No need for roasting bags or pressure cookers.
The short storey is I baked 2 identical 10g samples in 125 ml baby mason jars. Covered with EVOO and LSL
One was left open to the air, the other had a tin foil cover with the lid turned on and one teeny pin hole in the foil for pressure release.
There is no question that the pin hole batch smells and tastes stronger / better than the open to air version. Also both taste and smell better than open to air dry decarbing.
Another measure is the volume of terpene smell that escapes the toaster oven. Much much less with the pin hole option. It doesn't stink up the house.
Final thing is that the effects are noticeably stronger with the 'terpene retained' batch but couldnt put a number to it.
Conclusion is that wet cannabis decarbing in an almost closed container gives the best retention of the good stuff. (based on this very limited test run)
So simple and easy to do. Applicable to any size mason jar / closable container. No need for roasting bags or pressure cookers.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
You need a grower to answer that one. But decarbing affects the taste & smell for sure. More if fresh? I wish i had the opportunity to answer that one. lol.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Uhh Canyon, I will see what I can do about pics of the toys. We do need all the pics up front.
OB, Thanks,
Were your samples FH or dried buds?
What did you use for time and temperature?
Did you grind your material?
Did you stir it a lot?
Want me to ask more questions? [;>)
I have a plant due for harvest very soon. I am thinking of trying a small batch of FH, air drying half of what is left and L-n-S dry with the other half.
Once I have dry buds I will take an average sample and store it.
I would like to drop that sample off when I pickup Kicknitup1. It will take a few days for results, but we should have them back while he is here. I wanted to have it tested anyway. I just could not justify ordering it this soon until now. Even so, I am not going to volunteer anything about an extra stop to my wife.
Kickn, I have been to the tCheck site several times. Could you describe what it actually displays as results? I am thinking that it is including the acids in the total.
I never know