Dataudio's Indoor Blue Dream, 5x5 SCROG, 2 x 600W HID

[Dataudio]

Dataudio’s Indoor Blue Dream 5x5 SCROG 2x600w HID & 180W LED 2x4 Germination tent



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Hello everyone, thanks for checking out my first grow journal and joining me in my first grow! Before all you experienced growers turn and run, I ask you to stay a moment and please read on....you might not regret following this journal as I go balls out at everything and there will be much more to come my friends! Plus, I could really use the help. I have been on the sidelines quietly reading everyone’s journals and learning as much as I can from users like koolkat, Munki, Be Irie, McBudz and too many more to count (those were the first main threads that brought me to 420Magazine from Google). Now I’m looking for input and guidance on my garden from this awesome community that has taught me so much already. If you're a skimmer please skip past backstory and get straight to the setup and details. Thanks again!


Prologue:
I've been an avid cannabis connoisseur for many years as well as my wife and I hold our medical marijuana licenses in the wonderful state of Colorado. I'm currently on a dispensary road tour here trying to check out all the medical/recreational dispensaries and get their most prized possessions and Cannabis Cup winners (got a pretty nice collection started - now I just need my own mini bud cellar!). Always had a desire to grow my own cannabis, remember taking some raggedy old bag seeds as a teen, soaking them in a paper towel and hiding it inside my parent’s pool table in the basement. Never got far. That was close to two decades ago and I finally have the means as well as live in a state that allows me carry out this wish, all good things and much blessings in time.

As I've gotten started I picked up the materials listed below. Just about to flip this grow to the flowering cycle as my SCROG screen grows in but I’m reaching a point where I need some help and input on aspects of my grow.

Many 's in advanced to everyone who comments and helps a brotha out with his first grow. I know I'm new here and might not get a bunch of love off the bat, but it’s all good - just happy to be here and get introduced to the community! Let us begin!


Plants:
6 Blue Dream clones I picked up from The Clone Store in Lakewood Colorado. They were transplanted to 5 Gallon Air-pots on 6/26/14. They still have a week or two in vegetation as of 8/18/14.

Hardware:

• SCROG/Flowering Tent:
• Lighthouse Hydro 5x5 Grow Tent
• 2 x 600w Hortilux Super HPS Bulbs running off of
• 2 x 600w Apollo Electronic Ballasts in
• 6" Apollo Air Cool Tube Reflectors (wanted to keep the light setup cheap for first grow until I learned more. I’m digging the new LED technology)
• 5x5 PVC SCROG Net
• 720 CFM Inline Active Air 8”
• 240 CFM iPower Intake Fan 6”
• 6 x 5 Gallon Air-pots
• 6” iPower Carbon Filter
• Germination/Small Veg Tent:
• Millard 2x4 Grow tent
• 1 x Apollo 180W LED Grow Light
• 6 x 1 Gallon Air-pots or 6 x 3. Gallon Air-pots (wife loves these so we have too many – which size should I germinate with?)
• 2 x 6” Clip Fans
• 90 CFM iPower for exhaust…just popping seeds in this tent.
• 7 Feminized Purple God Bud (PGB) Seeds from The Clinic's Seed Bank on Capitol Hill in Colorado. >>More on PGB below and will create a separate journal for that grow.
• Also my wife germinates sunflower and plumeria seeds in this tent and we have a ton of fun growing together.

Soil:
Fox Farm Ocean Forest

Nutrients:
Kept nutrients simple for the first grow. Sounded like FF was an easy way to go for an entry level grower especially since I went with FFOF and not my own super soil mix. Very much will be learning much more in the way nutrients and open to any and all suggestions/recommendations.
Fox Farm Big Bloom
Fox Farm Grow Big
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom
Feeding Schedule (started out first couple weeks with half less than recommended)

Watering Schedule:
Watering about every 3 days it seems at this point. Each plant gets about 3/4 gallon of water with nutes in every other watering. PH runoff tested every so often and it’s always hanging out just under 6.5. Need to set up the amount of water from 5 gallons to about 7 I'm thinking. So they don't need to drink so often? I've preformed 1 flush throughout the 7.5 week of vegetation. I always balance PH so green lines up with 6.5ish.


Temp & Humidity:
75 degrees +- 5 while lights on
63-65 Avg lights off
Low 30s humidity while lights on
Low 50s tops whiles lights of and fan running. Avg around 45.

I am fortunate to live in Colorado where it is cooler for the most part (not always) and is normally pretty darn dry. I have the grow room setup in the basement where it is extra cool and able to get it pitch black no problem. I can get the temps pretty much where I need since there is the house AC unit nearby and have ran it to grow room (pic below) if need I can kick it on for a few minutes remotely via Nest to drop a few degrees back to 75. Since I put the second 600w in that 5x5 tent the temps are a little harder to manage so I picked up some cheap cool tube reflectors. Temps stay around 75 but have gotten up to 81/82 on occasion or two but not for very long as this grow has live video feed and is monitored closely.

Setup & Details:
Pretty much a normal indoor setup outside of a few things to point out.

Drainage Setup:
Added a 2x4 across the bottom of the 5x5 tent and laid over weathered plywood to allow drainage to the front of the tent for easy clean-up and maintenance. Works great. See thumbnails below


SCROG Setup:
Below are some snap shots of the SCROG net. Got PVC, string and sheet metal screws. Only thing to note here is I cut the back two legs of the SCROG net by 1-1/2 inch to compensate for the drainage setup as the 2x4 in the back is 1-1/2 inches thick. Makes the net completely level across but the back plants are ever so slightly closer to the net than the front ones.


Video Surveillance:
I set this up originally with the intention of time lapsing my entire grow as I have everything recording to NAS and records everything in HD. As well as have the ability to live view and see plants, temps and humidity from any phone or computer. Pretty handy. What ended up happening is this became an indispensable tool in watching and learning how my plants behave throughout the days, weeks and months. Being able to go back through the timeline and see the plants respond and correlate that with prior events has help me learn double time. Couple thumbnails below.



Grow Room Layout:
Couple of shots of the grow room area/Mancaveland. I can kick it here all night, it has a magical stress barrier at the entrance.


Grow Notes:
Also tried LST as I gotta start sometime may as well be now. I think I fattened up the stem too much on one plant as the whole bottom stem is super fat…not just a single knuckle. Also growing garlic as I hear that is a great natural pest repellent. Have not had any issues at this time but have heard horror stories of pests and hope to avoid as much as possible. All good so far. Thumbnails below.


Next Grow:
Purple God Bud
Will create a separate journal but figured I’d mention it here real quick and link it in the future. Going to start about a month before harvest of the Blue Dream currently growing in this journal. Purple God Bud is a cross between Grape God Bud x Purple Urkle and is created by The Bank Cannabis Genetics here in Colorado. In reality “The Bank” is a joint venture between “The Clinic” Dispensary and Reserva Privada of Colorado. Both very reputable companies in Colorado. The Clinic Dispensary has many shops and some of the best bud quality in Colorado. This is one of their most prized possessions as well. Amazing smell, look and taste...it’s beautiful. I want to eat it every time crack open the jar. Again I’ll be linking a separate grow journal from seed on Purple God Bud. Until then took pics of my personal stash.

 

[Dataudio]

Questions from me to the internets:

1. At what point would you suggest I flip my lights for flower based off of my green to screen ratio below? I feel like the screen should be pretty much completely filled in by that time. It's a tall sativa but I have plenty of room to go up. Especially once I get my air tube reflectors tomorrow. Thoughts?


2. Where should I be pruning undergrowth up to in my particular situation? I know that you cut what’s not getting light in a SCROG but the plants are still growing in to the netting and some branches/leaves I feel may make it to the top. I've also heard the people say cut 1/3 bottom growth but again it’s still growing in. Just not 100% on this aspect since I've never done.


3. Any other thoughts on this grow? See somewhere I can improve or something I'm missing? Please let me know. I will be posting weekly updates. Thanks!

 

[PeytonManning]

Flip now. They're gonna stretch for a few weeks when you do, and you're already out of screen room. You might have to lollipop everything below the screen cause you won't have room up top for it to come through.

 

[Dataudio]

Flip now. They're gonna stretch for a few weeks when you do, and you're already out of screen room. You might have to lollipop everything below the screen cause you won't have room up top for it to come through.

Thanks for taking the time PeytonManning. Much appreciated brotha.

So this screen in your opinion is as filled out as its gonna get? From my newbie perspective I was under the impression that I should wait until nearly 100% of the screen is evenly filled to get the most buds per sf ft. I see room on the screen for it to grow in more but never done before. Thanks.

Also I know I didn't do the best job keeping them groomed while they grew into the screen but didn't know which branches would make it to where on the screen. I posted some more detailed photos of the undergrowth below. I don't think I would want trim all the way up to the screen but where would you suggest I trip up to at this point? I'd want to keep branches that are just about to be popping up.

12" pots and 12" to screen is 24" from floor to screen. It's an 84" tall tent

 

[PeytonManning]

Usually you want to fill 2/3 of the screen to allow room for stretch. I would cut the lowest 6 inches of undergrowth and leave the rest, and if it doesn't hit screen in a week cut it. Just pinch off the budsites with your finger. Once you start to flower, the plant will stretch 1 to 2 times its length already. Those lower sites won't have any room to come up cause the upper growth will block every bit of light and they'll just steal energy from the good buds up top.

 

[Dataudio]

I like that suggestion and thanks. Setting up the air tubes now and will start trimming when finished. I'll start working up and see how it look as that lower growth is bushier down there than the 70s. I'll start with a round one see how it goes and post some pics. Thanks.

 

[PeytonManning]

Cool. I'll be watching

 

[Dataudio]

Took longer than expected as usual but got the new air tubes unboxed and put together. Didn't think there were going to be that many screws. Threw up ducting and reworked the setup a little. Will start clipping under the net tomorrow and get ready to flip this weekend.

 

[Icemud]

Questions from me to the internets:

1. At what point would you suggest I flip my lights for flower based off of my green to screen ratio below? I feel like the screen should be pretty much completely filled in by that time. It's a tall sativa but I have plenty of room to go up. Especially once I get my air tube reflectors tomorrow. Thoughts?


2. Where should I be pruning undergrowth up to in my particular situation? I know that you cut what’s not getting light in a SCROG but the plants are still growing in to the netting and some branches/leaves I feel may make it to the top. I've also heard the people say cut 1/3 bottom growth but again it’s still growing in. Just not 100% on this aspect since I've never done.


3. Any other thoughts on this grow? See somewhere I can improve or something I'm missing? Please let me know. I will be posting weekly updates. Thanks!

Hey Dataudio!!! Very clean journal and very nice organized setup you have! I can definitely tell you have done your research and have a killer setup for your 1st grow!

As a fellow scrogger, Welcome to 420 Magazine! I am sure you will fit right in and find it your new growing home and community I love it here and have been a member for about 4 years now I think...

I will try to take a stab at the questions you have...(now just want to mention, these are the ways I do things, there probably are many different approaches and opinions but this works for me)

1. As by your photos it looks like you have a good amount of vertical height... I personally wait until the screen is almost full to full before I flip to flowering. Once I do the 12/12 schedule, I don't "scrog" or bend the plants much at this point and let them grow upwards. For me it seems this leads to great yields and a nice full canopy. Some people flip earlier, however for me, I fill the screen up pretty much full... If they get too tall later in flowering when they start to fall over, I use packing twine/rope to just hang loops down to gently cradle the buds and give support. Its not always needed and usually only when I am growing tall lanky top heavy strains with thin stems like OG kush. ...So for your grow, you probably have another week or so before the screen fills up.. I would try to even fill in the corners. My goal is to try to have a top in every hole without overcrowding before the flip.


2. For pruning/defoliating the scrog I generally wait until the screen is filled up and then do a clean up under the canopy. I remove any "wanna be" branches that will never make it above the screen, but leave any branches that have the potential to stretch through. At this time I don't remove many of the leaves though unless the are discolored or dead.

Usually around day 20 of flowering (usually after the stretch and a full bloom has started) I will clean up pretty much everything under the screen removing any leaves and branches that are not above the screen or are not receiving light. I also will remove any fan leaves at least 4 nodes down from the tops that are covering other budsites...but I do this lightly, I don't get all crazy with it...Just enough to open up any budsites to the light, and if there are any areas that are extremely dense and bushy where the plants are cramped together, then I will remove a few fan leaves to allow for good airflow. Then I pretty much leave the plants alone and just remove any leaves that get discolored or die... In the past I have removed the majority of the fan leaves from 4 nodes down from the tops (everything) but I never noticed a difference so now I just do the defoliation on day 20 and otherwise maintenance.

3. Any suggestions....not really... you seem to have a very well tuned room, very clean setup and all the right gear

I didn't see is any CO2 setup in your flowering area.... I don't have a tank and all, but use just 2 gallon milk jugs filled 3/4 with water, add 1 cup of sugar, 1 packet of yeast and poke a small hole in the cap... I have about 4 of these in my flower tent and I just leave them under the canopy...(even though co2 falls, I figure it still eventually gets cycled in ) These CO2 fermentation jugs will last about a week before needing a recharge... typically I can tell when they are ready to recharge when I shake it and no bubble form instantly. At this point I just pour out 3/4 of the water leaving about 1/4 in there, fill it up 3/4 full with tap water, add 1 cup of sugar and you are good to go for another week..(as long as you leave in some of the old water, you don't need to keep adding yeast as it will repopulate). pretty much 2 bags of sugar last me for a grow cycle between my 3 grow tents and 7 jugs..

I also might suggest just a small 3" desk fan or something underneigth the canopy just to help circulate the air... my grow tent actually retains a lot more heat under the canopy vs above it so for me a small fan helps move the air and prevent any PM.


Well, like I mentioned before...very very nice start to your journal...fun, informational, and very clean! If I had a crystal ball, it would be telling me that you are in for a great harvest

I'm definitely subbed, feel free to stop over by my journal and ask questions and I will try to pop over here once and a while to keep up and help out if needed

Welcome to 420 Magazine and best of luck to you on your 1st grow... you are in great hands here... I learned probably 90% of what I know here

 

[Dataudio]

Nice Icemud! First off thanks for the kind words...feeling part of the community already. I was checking out a couple of your journals before I posted mine for formatting reference. Your LED setup is on point. Extra respect on the detail you're bringing in the work you do and super stoked you checked out my journal. Also I got my hands on black cherry cola about two months ago and remember thinking it was pretty tasty and talked to a friend about it later....so it was notable. I'll grab it next time I'm at the shop as a refresher. Got it from "The Clinic" dispensary I was referencing to in my original post. Black Cherry Soda is linked on page 4 <<<of their strain book. They sell many seeds of the flowers they carry.

Your thoughts around green to screen ratio brings me back to my original thinking of fill it in because there is plenty room to go up. It's blue dream and known to fall under it's own weight but happy to prop them up and stare at the bigger colas.

As far as waiting to defoliate under the screen, I was under the impression that not taking out branches/leaves that are sure to not to hit the screen AND that are under other leaves not receiving any light would be wasted energy. With my height of srog, you think I should wait until flowering to trim? I feel like they would be huge bushes and I would let too much unnecessary lower growth happen. This does rehash thoughts I had of this screen being too high though. Maybe I should take it down a few inches next grow because at present its about 13-14 inches above the soil...but again I have so much room going up i figured let em grow tall.

Thanks for the other suggestions. Now you got me looking at how to get CO2 in my tent because I didn't want a tank....thought CO2 was too pro for me just yet. Jug idea is great and gonna get my google on. Since you mentioned it I took an extra monitor and threw it under the canopy to better understand temp and humidity levels down there. Thanks again!

 

[Dataudio]

Thanks for your advice amigos, much appreciate and utilized. Didn't think joining would be helpful so quickly.

Last night I went through and trimmed up underneath a bit as PaytonManning suggested. I didn't go all the way up to the screen but definitely took out what I knew wasn't going to make it and glad I did. It's already easier to manage for watering and working around under the net. It was overdue. Also moved the plants around a bit to give it a more uniform layout across the screen. As Icemud suggested there's section across the back that I'll try and let grow in before flowering, looks to be about a week maybe less as of today.


Next grow it may be better to incorporate a floating net. 5x5 is a big area to spread a SCROG across as you have to allow the plants to get big enough to fill the area but also don't want the plant to bush out so much before it hits the screen. A lot of wasted energy between that time. Taking it up as it grows might be the way to go in larger areas, or having two stages of netting. Anybody have experience who could comment or point me the right direction? I did a quick search this afternoon on a few grow sites and and a some search terms in google but didn't find anything of value.
Adding tags to this post so that others may find this discussion. floating SCROG, hanging SCROG, adjustable SCROG

 

[Dataudio]

Trimmed up a little more under the net and decided that it was time to flip to flower cycle. Puts it at 8 weeks and 3 days of vegetation. Screen was pretty much filled in and some areas were getting a little crowded. There was a spot I thought I could let grow in but other areas have nowhere to grow. Below are some pics of the blackout cloth I dropped around the flowering tent. It's downstairs and completely black regardless but this adds an extra layer of protection as I have a wife and you just never know. I also unscrewed light bulbs from all the sockets.

 

[Icemud]

I can't believe how fast the screen filled up in just like 3-4 days! Looks like perfect time to flip! Exciting times!

 

[Dataudio]

I can't believe how fast the screen filled up in just like 3-4 days! Looks like perfect time to flip! Exciting times!

Thanks bud! It seems like between watering more often, taking out the undergrowth and rearranging around the screen - it exploded. Also got a light meter and evened out the intensity around the canopy so that helped shed light on the lumen situation. Learning so much and having a blast. Cant wait for next grow already!

 

[Dataudio]

Just woke up the plants after about 17 hours of darkness. Turned the lights on at 6PM as that will be the new schedule and will go 6PM>6AM ON. I have to say they look the best they've ever have and smell fantastic already. I've always noticed they bounced back throughout the night but this extra time reiterates how much it helps. Will have to look into why that is. Below are some pics of what it looks like this morning....the growth rate is crazy and noticeable by the day. Will be posting pics of time laps of the 8+ week veg cycle here soon..pretty cool to see it blow up over the two months.

 

[Dataudio]

Few snap shots of the beginning of each week during vegetation. I planted a few days before I got this camera so duration is missing first three days. Which at that point nothing much visible is happening to a newly transplanted clone. Also included last day of vegetation.

 

[Dataudio]

Was out of town for work this week and when I got back the plants were hurting something fierce.

I knew it was going to be an extra two days of going without water but figured it'd be fine as I made sure to water the day I left and drenched it as well. But they are air-pots and dry out fairly quick, plus they are growing and chugging the water. Talked to the wife last night and she thought the soil felt somewhat moist and they hadn't started drooping really yet. They don't even smell like pot and are drooping so hard it makes me super sad. I'm sure its not as bad as it looks.

Maybe a little set back but no browning or anything crazy. From what I'm reading all should be well and they'll bounce back. Just surprised they don't smell like pot at all....more like dying weeds. Bummer as this is the first week flipping to flower and hoping to see some noticeable changes by by now. All I see are droopy weeds. Maybe that's why they needed the extra water for the initial stretch into flower? Did I stunt these suckers hard or what with the timing of this f up?

 

[PeytonManning]

They should bounce back. If anything you might have slowed their stretch, but I wouldn't worry. It's not until the 2nd/3rd week that you'll really notice the change, especially with the stretch. Just give em water and keep an eye on them

 

[Icemud]

Yeah you should be fine... you might want to give them an extra few days after they bounce back to induce flowering just so they are happy when you flip them and no stress

I've actually done this quite a few times on accident in my mothers tent and they always bounce back within a day or less. The worst that has happened is I let them go too long and lost some of the leaves, but never the full plant

You should be all good

Love the digital system by the way you are using!! awesome!

 

[Dataudio]

Thanks!! They're looking better already and getting the smell back. Classic newbie mistake I'm sure. They'll look even better tonight when woken up at 6PM (going 6PM to 6AM) Will upload some pics tonight as I have a question around trimming I wanted to ask and need show an example of before I do anything.

But looks like it slowed them a little for sure based on how fast they had been growing a couple days prior. Will keep them on the 12/12 cycle as I've already started down that path since Sunday 8/24. I think I can see the white hairs more easily now as they're just barely thicker...maybe longer?....or I'm imagining things. LOL. Either way can't wait to see any signs of development!! I've never seen a cannabis plant in real life before so I'm probably a little over excited about the whole process.

I can tell already when I see the first bud....I'll likely pop on some hippy music, and until my wife yells at me to go to bed.