Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[InTheShed]

Organic might not have any meaning on a synthetic nute bottle! And synthetic nutes don't kill microbes, they just bypass them in feeding the plant.

Salts Don't Kill Plants or Microbes

Fertilizer salts don't kill plants. People fear synthetic fertilizers but they add the same nutrients to soil as organic fertilizers. Find out the truth.

www.gardenmyths.com

In terms of langbeinite, it doesn't mention whether it needs to be broken down by microbes for the plant to access the K, Mg, and S in there, and if so how long that takes.

 

[CBDMed]

Organic might not have any meaning on a synthetic nute bottle! And synthetic nutes don't kill microbes, they just bypass them in feeding the plant.

Salts Don't Kill Plants or Microbes

Fertilizer salts don't kill plants. People fear synthetic fertilizers but they add the same nutrients to soil as organic fertilizers. Find out the truth.

www.gardenmyths.com

In terms of langbeinite, it doesn't mention whether it needs to be broken down by microbes for the plant to access the K, Mg, and S in there, and if so how long that takes.

Hmmm.... I am not sure this answers it directly.

URL: How long does langbeinite take to dissolve?​

How Do I Use Langbeinite?

Topdressing:	Apply 1 tablespoon to your top dressing layer.
Nutrient Tea:	1. Add 4 Tablespoons of Langbeinite per 25 Litres of water. 2. Bubble the water with Langbeinite in it for 12-24 hours. (Note: The Langbeinite will dissolve faster if you crush it first.)

...

How much langbeinite is in a gallon of soil?​

1 tablespoon per gallon

Containers: For new plantings, mix 1 tablespoon per gallon of soil and mix thoroughly OR add 1-2 lbs per cubic yard.
For established plants, lightly mix 1-2 teaspoons per gallon into the soil surface once each month during the growing season.

 

[InTheShed]

The Langbeinite will dissolve faster if you crush it first.

If it dissolves, that's at least a good sign in terms of availability.

 

[CBDMed]

Organic might not have any meaning on a synthetic nute bottle! And synthetic nutes don't kill microbes, they just bypass them in feeding the plant.

Salts Don't Kill Plants or Microbes

Fertilizer salts don't kill plants. People fear synthetic fertilizers but they add the same nutrients to soil as organic fertilizers. Find out the truth.

www.gardenmyths.com

In terms of langbeinite, it doesn't mention whether it needs to be broken down by microbes for the plant to access the K, Mg, and S in there, and if so how long that takes.

It seems like a real good article. I bookmarked it, even.
And I think I know what he is saying.
I just know that there is a world of difference between organic farm soil (where you regularly till decomposed or decomposing organic matter in), and conventional farm soil (where you don't).
Sorry not the best pics in the world, but I think they illustrate the point.

 

[InTheShed]

Those pics don't tell you anything really, but the words accurately describe what organic soil is like. My bagged Fox Farms soil doesn't look anything like the crap on the right in the bottom pic, but it won't feed a plant for more than a minute. Mine looks like the left side even after an entire grow with synthetic nutes.

 

[CBDMed]

Those pics don't tell you anything really, but the words accurately describe what organic soil is like. My bagged Fox Farms soil doesn't look anything like the crap on the right in the bottom pic, but it won't feed a plant for more than a minute. Mine looks like the left side even after an entire grow with synthetic nutes.

Yeah, I would think it would look fine after a year.

I guess my question would have to be, how many grows do you get out of a bag of soil?
Do you normally recondition it and re-use it each time (for maybe 15-20 grows), replacing any organic matter as it breaks down?
Or do you normally buy new bagged soil each grow (or each season), and then send the old to the outdoor garden each time?

I think what I am trying to say is that, yeah, a few years isn't going to make that big of a dent in the tilth and the organic content of the soil.
What kills soil is farmers who only put chemical pellets on the soil, and don't run covercrops, and don't till new tilth into the soil.
(I guess that is what I am trying to say. I hope I am being clear.)

 

[InTheShed]

I guess my question would have to be, how many grows do you get out of a bag of soil?
Do you normally recondition it and re-use it each time (at least for maybe 15-20 grows)?
Or do you buy new bagged soil each grow (or each season), and then send the old to the outdoor garden each time?

I grow using synthetic nutes and my grows tend to run close to six months sprout to harvest, so I use my soil in the garden after each grow, My feeling is that the buffering effectiveness of the lime would start being depleted after that and I don't want to start figuring out how much to add to bring it back to factory specs!

 

[CBDMed]

I grow using synthetic nutes and my grows tend to run close to six months sprout to harvest, so I use my soil in the garden after each grow, My feeling is that the buffering effectiveness of the lime would start being depleted after that and I don't want to start figuring out how much to add to bring it back to factory specs!

Ahhh, are you in coco, with pH buffering?
And the pH buffering wears off??


I will probably keep testing the soil through the university, so I know what to add and not add.
I already pre-loaded my containers with a boatload of rice hulls to break down over the next two years (haha), so I don't have to worry too much about adding decomposing organic matter for a while (ha!)
(But I will add perlite or pumice when necessary! Haha!)

When we finally get to our property (Father willing), we want to run cover crops and let the land rest every seven years, to keep it in ideal outdoor condition.
The organic milk cow people are great! They are talking about organic cheeses being the way to go to make money (which we kinda need right now).
They say the whole trick is to make the whole outdoor pasture area super-lush, to grow super grasses (alfalfa, rye, etc.), and then till in covercrops and such (clover, vetch, etc.), to keep a lot of decomposing organic matter in the soil.
I guess maybe that is nature's way of feeding the microbes, and providing aeration, is to till and keep the soil.
Maybe that is how we were always intended to keep the garden?

I keep thinking we need to make the whole outdoors lush like the inside of one of our buckets!
(Kinda new thinking for me....)

 

[InTheShed]

Ahhh, are you in coco, with pH buffering? And the pH buffering wears off??

I'm in Fox Farm soil now, and because of the organic matter in soil it buffers pH on its own, along with the dolomite lime added when it's packaged. I've had bad experience with peat-based mixes (where the lime is the only buffer) so that's probably why I'm gun-shy about reusing the soil.

on the property hunt!

 

[CBDMed]

I'm in Fox Farm soil now, and because of the organic matter in soil it buffers pH on its own, along with the dolomite lime added when it's packaged. I've had bad experience with peat-based mixes (where the lime is the only buffer) so that's probably why I'm gun-shy about reusing the soil.

on the property hunt!

Yeah, we got the property, thanks!
Everything moves slow as molasses in winter around here, but eventually we might get moved on the property, haha! (I hope so! Lol!)
Right now we are waiting on the soil study to come back, and then the organic milk cow society will want some time to study it, and then visit the property, and then advise us on what to do best.
So it's a lot of holding out around here! Lol!
They are talking 7 months until we see any profit stream coming back, so the belt is getting tighter, but we have high hopes!! (Pun not intended, but certainly enjoyed!!

About a third of the terrain is flat. They are suggesting we grow alfalfa and other "supergrasses" on the flat part, and then send a man with a rototiller up the mountainside, to cultivate the slopes (!). (They say they do that in the alps.

So basically I am in buckets for two years, trying to learn all I can about how to PROPERLY amend soil for buckets (haha!) while we are still in buckets! (And I can't guarantee that I won't use buckets in the greenhouses, but probably I will grow in soil.)
So I am enjoying learning about buckets! And I'm ok if I have to patch things up with some liquid or crystal ferts for the short run, just so long as I don't damage the microbes, 'cuz I am slowly learning what kinds of organic matter to "till into the soil" in pots (haha!).
Anyway, at least in my own mind, it seems like good practice for the property.

I am ok adding organic ion ferts for right now, just so long as I don't poison the soil.
It seems like good practice, trying to learn how to make the soil inside the buckets as nice as I can for plants, because later I want to transfer what is applicable to our property soil.
And eventually, the planet, haha!...

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey Gringuito,

Just catching up here! Been away for a while.

I saw your soil test results... nice analysis. I see a problem... way too much sodium, yeah? I wonder where the sodium came from.

RE: Down to Earth... if you are choosing just one, I vote for the solution grade Langbeinite. I use both the potassium sulfate (K-sulfate) and the Langbeinite... both are solution grade. I trust the application rates shown on the packages, per volume of soil in the pot.

RE: Bioavailability... "highly available water-soluble sulfate form".

Potassium sulfate is K2SO4, and is a salt of potassium... no sodium involved. K-sulfate is considered an inorganic salt, because there's no carbon atoms in the molecule. In contrast, K-citrate is considered an organic salt (K3C6H5O7). BUT... don't be confused about the use of the word "organic" here, because K-sulfate is OMRI certified for use in organic agriculture.

Langbeinite is potassium magnesium sulfate, K2Mg2(SO4)3. Also a OMRI listed inorganic salt.

I know Langbeinite is a naturally-occurring mineral that's mined, and they grind it up into powder. I don't know about the origins of the K-sulfate.

Fyi, DTE now carries a solution grade gypsum (Ca and S), so it's a good one for those cases where you need to up the Ca. I'm thinking about getting some. They also have solution grade calcium carbonate.

The DTE kelp meal is small granules. ... you've probably got your shipment by now. It's a new ingredient now in my soil mix. Azi explained to me how to turn this into a liquid form, which I'm gonna try one of these days.

I'm stoked... just got 15 more coco coir blocks today.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey CBD!

Hey Gringuito,

Just catching up here! Been away for a while.

I'm glad to hear from you!

I saw your soil test results... nice analysis. I see a problem... way too much sodium, yeah? I wonder where the sodium came from.

I was hoping you might want to help me with this soil analysis!! Yay!!

RE: Down to Earth... if you are choosing just one, I vote for the solution grade Langbeinite. I use both the potassium sulfate (K-sulfate) and the Langbeinite... both are solution grade. I trust the application rates shown on the packages, per volume of soil in the pot.

RE: Bioavailability... "highly available water-soluble sulfate form".

Potassium sulfate is K2SO4, and is a salt of potassium... no sodium involved. K-sulfate is considered an inorganic salt, because there's no carbon atoms in the molecule. In contrast, K-citrate is considered an organic salt (K3C6H5O7). BUT... don't be confused about the use of the word "organic" here, because K-sulfate is OMRI certified for use in organic agriculture.

Langbeinite is potassium magnesium sulfate, K2Mg2(SO4)3. Also a OMRI listed inorganic salt.

I know Langbeinite is a naturally-occurring mineral that's mined, and they grind it up into powder. I don't know about the origins of the K-sulfate.

Thanks!
But I was just checking the report again, and I think I made a mistake about the Langbeinite or the Magnesium Sulfate, because it says not to add Phosphorus or Sulfur at this time.
So it looks like I made a mistake.

Only, the PK-13/14 also has phosporus (P), so it seems like any one of them will provide an excess of either phosporus (P), or Sulfur (S)....
....so I am not sure what to do.

Fyi, DTE now carries a solution grade gypsum (Ca and S), so it's a good one for those cases where you need to up the Ca. I'm thinking about getting some. They also have solution grade calcium carbonate.

The DTE kelp meal is small granules. ... you've probably got your shipment by now. It's a new ingredient now in my soil mix. Azi explained to me how to turn this into a liquid form, which I'm gonna try one of these days.

Cool. Thanks! The bag is here. Small granules sounds good!
I hope to get it mixed soon!

I'm stoked... just got 15 more coco coir blocks today.

Happy happy! Happy!
Happy growing!!

 

[CBDMed]

Oh, I know what else I needed to ask about.
I was going to ask for your help interpreting a couple of things on this chart.
Second line down, Available Magnesium (Mg) be high.
But Magnesium saturation is low (third line down in the second chart).
Does that mean there isn't much Magnesium, but what there is, is available?
(I reword the question in the graphic... haha!)
And, what does "Interpretation Value" mean?

And second question: if that is correct, how would you add magnesium to the soil such that it does not release too fast, and also does not add phosphorus (P), or sulfur (S)?
Or what am I missing?

 

[cbdhemp808]

But I was just checking the report again, and I think I made a mistake about the Langbeinite or the Magnesium Sulfate, because it says not to add Phosphorus or Sulfur at this time.

I'm going to focus on the top part of the report ("available"), instead of the bottom part ("saturation").

On the EC row, it says "very strongly saline", which means all salts, not just sodium. The pH is high... around 6.5 is what you want. They actually didn't measure nitrogen... hmm. Neither... Cu, Mo, and Zn.

The various micro-nutrients are shown in cmol+/kg.

That can be converted to mg/kg, which is the same as ppm...

So, for sodium, the rule is "Divide ppm of sodium by 230 to get cmol+/kg of sodium." Calculating the sodium value in the chart... 3.61 cmol+/kg = X ppm/230. Multiply each side by 230 and we get, X=3.61 x 230 = 830 ppm. (I will do the same for Ca, Mg, K, but the multiplier is different.)

Here's from your soil test results, and I have converted the colored ones to ppm:

N - ?
P - 354.00 ppm
S - 1256.00 ppm
B - 2.00 ppm
Ca - 7054.00 ppm
Mg - 1022.00 ppm
K - 6560.00 ppm
Na - 830.00 ppm
Fe - 29.00 ppm
Mn - ?

Now compare to a recommended ppm for fertigation (green are missing from your soil test):

N - 200.00 ppm
P - 80.00 ppm
S - 400.00 ppm
B - 1.00 ppm
Ca - 200.00 ppm
Mg - 75.00 ppm
K - 300.00 ppm
Na - n/a
Cu - 0.50 ppm
Fe - 5.00 ppm
Mn - 2.00 ppm
Mo - 0.02 ppm
Zn - 0.50 ppm

As you can see, your soil appears to be "off the charts" for P, S, Ca, Mg, K, Fe. (Assuming the soil test is correct, and assuming my conversion from cmol+/kg to ppm is correct, which I think it is.) Sodium appears to be extremely high. Caveat: I am no expert on this kind of an analysis, especially with respect to the differences between measurements of nutrients in the soil, as compared to recommended ppm for fertigation. I only have one reference point, and that is, I calculated the ppm of N from the recommended application rate for dry DTE Bat Guano per gallon of soil, and it came out 318 ppm, which is well within the recommended N range for fertigation of cannabis.

I understand that excessive sodium can interfere with K, Ca, and Mg uptake. One source says, "Sodium levels in water exceeding 50 ppm can cause issues." It's hard to believe your soil has 830 ppm!

If that 830 ppm sodium is real, I think it's a show stopper... it would probably be easier to start over than to try to get all that sodium out of the soil. Not to mention all the other excess nutrients, which are probably present as salts... P, K, Ca, Mg, S.

Here's one more reference, showing ballpark values for normal sodium content in soil (4 different soil types)...

Here you can see 0.3 cmol+/kg converts to 69 ppm (that's .3 x 230). The range is 25-69 ppm sodium.

 

[CBDMed]

I understand that excessive sodium can interfere with K, Ca, and Mg uptake. One source says, "Sodium levels in water exceeding 50 ppm can cause issues." It's hard to believe your soil has 830 ppm!

If that 830 ppm sodium is real, I think it's a show stopper... it would probably be easier to start over than to try to get all that sodium out of the soil. Not to mention all the other excess nutrients, which are probably present as salts... P, K, Ca, Mg, S.

Oy....

CBD, thank you!
I have my head and my hands full with other things right now, but I will pray about this, and try to step through this all after the Shabbat.

 

[CBDMed]

CBD, thank you very much.
I am sure you are right.
I have no idea where the sodium came from, but it does seem like the only real option is to start over.
And this time we will buy only inputs from name brand sources (with some kind of real quality control).
I am suspecting that base canna soil that I bought from Bendita Sea.
When I opened the plastic cover, it has a spray-painted name, and no guaranteed analysis whatsoever.

I suspect them because when I ordered more soil from them, it was lumpy junk in a generic white bag (with rocks, sticks, and fist-sized lumps of clay. I have NOT used any of it for anything!)

So I could replace with Roots Organic soil as a base, but it is imported, and so it is $3 a gallon.
(Seems kinds pricey, but probably won't have any "accidental sodium"...)

This was in the FAQ: This coco-based substrate contains Aurora Innovations' own peat, pumice and perlite. The perlite and coir base allows for quick drainage and drying, for frequent feeding of large, fast-growing plants.


Alternately, the Colombian "best quality" name brand is Confiabonos. They make a "premium blend" that is $1 a gallon. I don't see a guaranteed analysis anywhere on the bag, but they have a good reputation. (They are considered the best Colombian brand.)

This was in the FAQ: Good morning, the premium substrate is composed of vermiculite, coconut substrate, perlite, zeolite, earthworm humus, guano, Canadian peat, diatomaceous earth and trichoderma.

(I think I am starting to get why Emmie pre-loads and top dresses with GeoFlora...)

Got to start getting ready for Shabbat.

 

[CBDMed]

PS, just out of curiosity, I put a bunch of rice hulls in water, and let them soak for a bit, and then tasted the water (and spit it out).
I did not notice any salt flavor at all.
(Methinks it was the base soil, or else why did Bendita Sea change brands [to an even worse no-label brand]?)

I am thinking that if I go with either Roots or the Confiabonos Premium blend, I should be good for two more years (until I can transition to greenhouses.)
But we will pick this up after Shabbat...

 

[cbdhemp808]

I am thinking that if I go with either Roots or the Confiabonos Premium blend, I should be good for two more years (until I can transition to greenhouses.)

Sounds like a plan.

Here's the Roots U.S. information, also shown on the label:

"Perlite, Coco Fiber, Peat Moss, Composted Forest Material, Pumice, Worm Castings, Bat Guano, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Fishbone Meal, Kelp Meal, and Greensand. Also contains beneficial mycorrhizal fungi: Funneliformis mosseae, Rhizophagus intraradices, Septoglomus desertícola..."

I'm guessing this is one of the best potting soils for cannabis.

Your Roots label in Spanish doesn't list any ingredients... that's concerning.

The Confia looks good, too, so long as you can confirm the sodium content, which I'm guessing will be very low.

This is very cool... something I didn't know...

"Trichoderma spp. significantly suppress the growth of plant pathogenic microorganisms and regulate the rate of plant growth. Recent works have shown that common plant disease such as root rot disease, damping off, wilt, fruit rot and other plant diseases can be controlled by Trichoderma spp."

 

[CBDMed]

Hey CBD!

Sounds like a plan.

Here's the Roots U.S. information, also shown on the label:

"Perlite, Coco Fiber, Peat Moss, Composted Forest Material, Pumice, Worm Castings, Bat Guano, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Fishbone Meal, Kelp Meal, and Greensand. Also contains beneficial mycorrhizal fungi: Funneliformis mosseae, Rhizophagus intraradices, Septoglomus desertícola..."

I'm guessing this is one of the best potting soils for cannabis.

That does sound good! Thank you!
Subcool's formula specifies the best canna mix you can for the base soil, so if Roots is "one of the best potting soils for cannabis", then it sounds worth the extra expense.

Your Roots label in Spanish doesn't list any ingredients... that's concerning.

Oh!
Hmmm, well, I saw that you did a review on Roots before. Can you perhaps tell if it is the same by looking at it? (Or not really?)
I cut open the plastic. It is a little bit moist, but it still does really well with a tilth test (i.e., it still falls apart after being crushed).
Not a lot of long fibers, but it is nice and fluffy and airy.

The Confia looks good, too, so long as you can confirm the sodium content, which I'm guessing will be very low.

Thanks! This is a picture of their Biogreen Standard, if that tells you anything. I see a lot of long fibers.

I went to Confiabonos' website, and they had this ingredients list for the Premium:

>> This substrate is composed of, Vermiculite, coconut substrate, perlite, zeolite, earthworm humus, Guano, Canadian Peat, Diatomaceous Earth and Thrichoderma.

I see lots of fibers, but I do not see any greensand, or meals, and I think Roots may have more manures.

This is very cool... something I didn't know...

"Trichoderma spp. significantly suppress the growth of plant pathogenic microorganisms and regulate the rate of plant growth. Recent works have shown that common plant disease such as root rot disease, damping off, wilt, fruit rot and other plant diseases can be controlled by Trichoderma spp."

Very cool! Good to know!


...

And about the "Salted Earth" Sodium situation, about the best answer I can come up with is that the way quality control is around here, maybe someone ran out of Epsom Salts, so they substituted some table salt, instead? (No way of telling, but I can't imagine what else could have happened.)

 

[InTheShed]

This is a picture of their Biogreen Standard

That's what mine looks like at the end of a grow...so many roots!