Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[CBDMed]

Sorry, I'm definitely not wanting to bum you out... trying to save you further hurt.

No, I get it! And I am super thankful that you and @Azimuth and @StoneOtter and @Buds Buddy are helping me! (I am thankful for that every day!) And I know that something better always comes out of mistakes and failures...you just have to learn the lessons, and try again.
@InTheShed , I can see that I should have used mostly Perlite, and then experimented with adding rice hulls. That would have been a much safer way to go.
Next time I will remember to TEST a new soil before using!
(And how good we did not try this with anything commercial!)

So it sounds like I need to dump all this soil back into the garbage bins, and wait for it to finish cooking (maybe in a few years?).... woosh!
And then I don't have any other supersoil, so now I need to think about mixing GeoFlora or something into the soil, or what I am going to do.
We FINALLY found a competent workman. He is supposed to come tomorrow to have a look (so I have to get the project done to-day). And if I know how they work around here, he will come out to work on it next week, or the week after. But maybe he can build me some light racks also.
So if it goes that way (and it is looking like it) then I will have to come up with some other plan for soil.

It would be good to hear from @Azimuth and other SIP growers.

Siiii....
And I forgot to ask @Buds Buddy .

It sounds like you can get decent coir and perlite locally – that's great. Coir is the bomb... worst case scenario is the coir has too much salt, but you can overcome that by washing it and buffering with calcium. Wash until rinse water has low ppm. Grey perlite should be just fine – make sure it's fine or medium-fine grade. Some companies sell a mixture of find, medium, and coarse – that would work, too.

Yeah, as much as I want to stop the world and fix this, I must keep going for right now.
I can try to investigate tomorrow.
Thank you very much for helping! It is very much appreciated.

 

[CBDMed]

You got a result but it wasn't the pH of the soil!

I really recommend waiting until you get distilled or deionized (whatever that is) water. Otherwise you're not reading what you think you are.

Yeah, ok, @InTheShed , thanks!
There is a local car care center here (compare at Les Schwab or a big SpeedyLube). They will probably either have distilled water, or will know where I can get it.
It will *probably be tomorrow afternoon before I can go, as my deliverable is due tonight, and I have meetings all tomorrow AM.
I will try to dig out my pH pen also, and see if I have a ppm meter, or what I have (or don't have).
THANK YOU!

 

[CBDMed]

Given your time constraints and other priorities you could just limp along with this grow and chalk it up to a learning experience. The rice hull soil will probably be great once it finishes cooking but unfortunately for you you're doing that with a plant in it which is likely throwing lots of things off.

Siiii....
We know that all things work together for good, so we are good.
At this point we are focusing hard-and-blindered on the silver lining, knowing that we are learning many things by experience (the best teacher).
So, if I hypothetically decide to put that supersoil back in the garbage cans, it will probably finish cooking in another year or two, maybe??
And in the meantime, maybe I have to start again?
Tomorrow afternoon I can look for me ppm and pH pens (if I actually bought the right ones, etc.)...

SIPs work great with most standard setups but that is not what you have there. I'd probably try to get some N in there and see how it goes, but trying to adjust the pH of the soil at this stage while it is cooking is going to introduce other issues with the cooking process. That's why 'cooking' an organic soil is done before the grow to let all of that activity settle and the mix to become integrated.

Right.
(It seems rice hulls are "mostly" inert, but not inert enough!)

I think trying to fix that is going to complicate things and simply provide you with something else that also needs fixing which is above your pay grade at this stage of your growing career.

Siiii.....
As mentioned above, I can try to find my ppm and pH pens, and find distilled or de-ionized water mañana por la tarde.
It's a big bummer, but it is good to learn that about rice hulls now, before we used them in any kind of commercial product.
And I have always loved gardening, so it hurts to put plants in bad soil.
And mostly it bites to realize that I need to do a test run on soil BEFORE I run production, but what a good thing to get drilled home on now! (Good think I won't be on the agriculture team! Haha!)
Good to learn these things now!

 

[Azimuth]

So it sounds like I need to dump all this soil back into the garbage bins, and wait for it to finish cooking (maybe in a few years?).... woosh!

Months, not years. You can generally tell by the temperature, similar to compost. The microbes heat things up in their process of digesting the organic material and each other which goes hot and heavy for a bit and then settles down as long as you don't add fresh new material to the pile. Once that happens you are good to go.

I'll bet your high percentage of rice hulls will be fine after that process, but certainly worth paying attention to as I've not seen anyone experiment with it the way you are.

Right.
(It seems rice hulls are "mostly" inert, but not inert enough!)

Rice hulls are organic, not inert, so they are subject to decomposition unlike perlite or hydroton clay balls. Those are inert although the perlite will crumble into smaller particles and eventually turn to dust over time which renders it less effective.

 

[StoneOtter]

No, I get it! And I am super thankful that you and @Azimuth and @StoneOtter and @Buds Buddy are helping me! (I am thankful for that every day!) And I know that something better always comes out of mistakes and failures...you just have to learn the lessons, and try again.
@InTheShed , I can see that I should have used mostly Perlite, and then experimented with adding rice hulls. That would have been a much safer way to go.
Next time I will remember to TEST a new soil before using!
(And how good we did not try this with anything commercial!)

So it sounds like I need to dump all this soil back into the garbage bins, and wait for it to finish cooking (maybe in a few years?).... woosh!
And then I don't have any other supersoil, so now I need to think about mixing GeoFlora or something into the soil, or what I am going to do.
We FINALLY found a competent workman. He is supposed to come tomorrow to have a look (so I have to get the project done to-day). And if I know how they work around here, he will come out to work on it next week, or the week after. But maybe he can build me some light racks also.
So if it goes that way (and it is looking like it) then I will have to come up with some other plan for soil.

Siiii....
And I forgot to ask @Buds Buddy .

Yeah, as much as I want to stop the world and fix this, I must keep going for right now.
I can try to investigate tomorrow.
Thank you very much for helping! It is very much appreciated.

A couple of weeks should do it.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Rice hulls are organic, not inert, so they are subject to decomposition unlike perlite or hydroton clay balls. Those are inert although the perlite will crumble into smaller particles and eventually turn to dust over time which renders it less effective.

I'm a little confused... are we talking about soil-less medium in a SIP? If so, this is sounding more like hydroponic.

 

[Azimuth]

I'm a little confused... are we talking about soil-less medium in a SIP? If so, this is sounding more like hydroponic.

Define soil.

No, he's using SubCool's mix with a jungle twist. He felt comfortable substituting ingredients and had ample access to rice hulls which he used in place of perlite I believe. So, an organic mix.

 

[cbdhemp808]

No, he's using SubCool's mix with a jungle twist. He felt comfortable substituting ingredients and had ample access to rice hulls which he used in place of perlite I believe. So, an organic mix.

OK, what's in the SubCool? I think my definition of soil is that it contains significant amounts of organically-derived NPK and micronutrients – i.e. it's not like most commercial potting soils. Living soil – microbes and microbe support.

 

[InTheShed]

Define soil.

I call it soil if it's humus-based as opposed to peat-based, but that's just me!

 

[Azimuth]

OK, what's in the SubCool? I think my definition of soil is that it contains significant amounts of organically-derived NPK and micronutrients – i.e. it's not like most commercial potting soils. Living soil – microbes and microbe support.

I'm not really sure. I think of it kind of like The Rev's soil with lots of amendments.

 

[CBDMed]

G'morning, Azi. Sorry for all the delays. We are going into overtime on the deliverable, so it looks like tomorrow before I can dedicate time :[

Months, not years.

I definitely misunderstood what you said about rice hulls earlier. Only, I thought you were saying they would take years to break down , not months (you didn't say that. I misunderstood what you said). I thought, "well, if they take years to break down, they should not be such a problem, so let's go that way, rather than Perlite, since rice hulls are cheaper, and lead to silica..."
Oops. :[

You can generally tell by the temperature, similar to compost.

If I recall correctly (which with a head injury is always a question), you indicated that if I cooked them for a few weeks, it should work, so I went with that. I cooked them for a month, and then stuck my hand straight to the middle of the garbage can, and they were cold.
Now @cbdhemp808 's paper suggests that they break down in stages. So maybe I missed the thermal phase?
Anyway, my bad. I will try to get some distilled water by tomorrow and test pH (but probably it is 8).
The twister is that if I had used Perlite, I would have a real grow going. "So it is like dangling da spliff in fronta me face, mon! But I canna have the canna, because me messed up!"

The microbes heat things up in their process of digesting the organic material and each other which goes hot and heavy for a bit and then settles down as long as you don't add fresh new material to the pile. Once that happens you are good to go.

Yeah. LIke I say, it was stone cold after 3 weeks. I checked it twice. But it was NOT done!

I'll bet your high percentage of rice hulls will be fine after that process, but certainly worth paying attention to as I've not seen anyone experiment with it the way you are.

It wasn't intentional. I was just dreaming of silica.

Rice hulls are organic, not inert, so they are subject to decomposition unlike perlite or hydroton clay balls. Those are inert although the perlite will crumble into smaller particles and eventually turn to dust over time which renders it less effective.

Yeah, I totally misread what you said.
By tomorrow I hope to have a much better read on the possibilities.
My supply man is falling behind, so I don't have the backup soil yet, but there will be something around here that will work.
And maybe this repairman will actually fix my greehouse? Or give me light stands in the house?
It is probably one of the worst feelings to have shot your own grow in the roots.
Thanks everyone for trying to help me figure it out.
The killer is I grew pot before. But since coming to Colombia it is one problem after another! What a bummer that this last one is 100% self-inflicted!

 

[CBDMed]

A couple of weeks should do it.

Hey @StoneOtter !
Yeah, sorry! These hulls cooked for about a month before they went in the SIPs.
If I understand what @cbdhemp808 and Azi are saying, it takes months, and there may be more than one phase.
After three weeks I stuck my hand straight in the bin, and it was stone cold. But apparently that is not the end of the story.
We will get it right. I have some more seeds. It is good to know about rice hulls before we try them in any commercial application. the hard lessons always stick best.
I am almost out of greenbud, but I have $10 RSO and $14 1:1 concentrates (and the 1:1 is bomb).
We can test coco, and perlite, and whatever I have.
All I have at the moment is some junky canna soil, but I'll bet we can fix it up.
With you guys' help, we should be able to get some killer plants! And with the Perfume Room the whole house should smell great!

 

[CBDMed]

I'm a little confused... are we talking about soil-less medium in a SIP? If so, this is sounding more like hydroponic.

Hey @cbdhemp808 ,
Sorry for the confusion! I did not mean to misunderstand what Azi was saying!
It is a straight 5g commercial SIP like @BudsBuddy is using. (I did not have time to DIY, and their build quality is pretty good.)
It is straight soil, minimize all compost and manures except worm castings (for some reason. Maybe it is less water soluble, or doesn't lead to algae growing in the rez?)
When Buds uses them the plants are like double in size.
I have never dealt with a rez before, so that is the reason for all of my questions about rez.

 

[CBDMed]

OK, what's in the SubCool? I think my definition of soil is that it contains significant amounts of organically-derived NPK and micronutrients – i.e. it's not like most commercial potting soils. Living soil – microbes and microbe support.

Subcool is an enriched organic soil. You put a little regular soil over it, so as not to burn the babies. But then it does the rest.
I used it before when I was in the states and it worked great!
(Nothing like what you guys grow, but I was happy.)

Subcool’s Super Soil Step-by-Step

There’s nothing that compares to the flavor of properly grown organic pot: The subtle tastes and aromas created by using only “Mother Earth” are overwhelming to the senses when it’s done properly. As with vegetables, a rich organic soil can bring out the best in cannabis. Over the past 20 years...

hightimes.com

SuperSoil - SubCool's Super Soil 100 Gallon Recipe Mix Package

The SubCool's Super Soil Recipe Mix Package comes with all the EXACT amendments from the SAME BRANDS used by TGA SubCool. In fact, he gave us the recipe! This SuperSoil technique allows you to get maximum plant-available organic nutrients for the price of using synthetics.

monstergardens.com

It's pretty popular, because you just add water and whatever bloom nutes you want.
I like using it. I just wish I had used perlite, not rice hulls!
But in a few months I am sure I will be happy that I used rice hulls!
Now I just need to get creative, so I can get some green bud!

 

[CBDMed]

I call it soil if it's humus-based as opposed to peat-based, but that's just me!

Makes sense.
I will have to splay out what I still have left tomorrow, and we can see what I have that should grow bud.
I have some meh canna soil that can be doctored, and coco (quality unknown) and Ag perlite.
Also a bag of VEG canna soil (maybe compare @ a cheap version of Happy Frog?)
My subcool is out of action for the count, but I have some other powdered fertilizers we can maybe mix in with the soil.
I also have limited liquid VEG fertilizer, and plentiful BLOOM liquid fert.
Something will work.
I just have to get over the time hit (and the seed cost).
I will just have to put on my big boy jeans, and it will work. And we will be better for the experience.

 

[CBDMed]

I'm not really sure. I think of it kind of like The Rev's soil with lots of amendments.

This is High Times' version:
Subcool's Super Soil Step-by-Step | High Times
>> "Here are the amounts we’ve found will produce the best-tasting buds and strongest medicines:

• 8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
• 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
• 5 lbs steamed bone meal
• 5 lbs Bloom bat guano
• 5 lbs blood meal
• 3 lbs rock phosphate
• ¾ cup Epson salts
• ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
• ½ cup azomite (trace elements)
• 2 tbsp powdered humic acid

Add way too much rice hulls to that, and it is my Colombian Jungle version! Haha!
(And then compost it for months, and hopefully it will be the Super Silica version!)

These guys break it down, and also give 5G and 1000G recipes.

SuperSoil - SubCool's Super Soil 100 Gallon Recipe Mix Package

The SubCool's Super Soil Recipe Mix Package comes with all the EXACT amendments from the SAME BRANDS used by TGA SubCool. In fact, he gave us the recipe! This SuperSoil technique allows you to get maximum plant-available organic nutrients for the price of using synthetics.

monstergardens.com

Got to run! We are in overtime on the deliverable, and I have an all-AM meeting!
Hopefully PM I can finish my deliverable, and get on back to the canna question.
Thanks a million, everyone.

PS do I have @BudsBuddy 's link right? Before it used to show up with the Rabbit.
Or did he get hired on staff, at @BudsBuddy420 ?

 

[StoneOtter]

Hey @StoneOtter !
Yeah, sorry! These hulls cooked for about a month before they went in the SIPs.
If I understand what @cbdhemp808 and Azi are saying, it takes months, and there may be more than one phase.
After three weeks I stuck my hand straight in the bin, and it was stone cold. But apparently that is not the end of the story.
We will get it right. I have some more seeds. It is good to know about rice hulls before we try them in any commercial application. the hard lessons always stick best.
I am almost out of greenbud, but I have $10 RSO and $14 1:1 concentrates (and the 1:1 is bomb).
We can test coco, and perlite, and whatever I have.
All I have at the moment is some junky canna soil, but I'll bet we can fix it up.
With you guys' help, we should be able to get some killer plants! And with the Perfume Room the whole house should smell great!

I don't understand how it can need cooking that long.

 

[CBDMed]

I don't understand how it can need cooking that long.

Not sure either!
I thought for sure it would be ok, but the pH in my rez is off.... :[
I am sure it will work out all for the best, in the very end.

Some GOOD news is that the plants are all re-greening! (They are back maybe half...)
And I am supposed to meet the greenhouse repairman today or tomorrow....

 

[StoneOtter]

Not sure either!
I thought for sure it would be ok, but the pH in my rez is off.... :[
I am sure it will work out all for the best, in the very end.

Some GOOD news is that the plants are all re-greening! (They are back maybe half...)
And I am supposed to meet the greenhouse repairman today or tomorrow....

Back is good! Go get em el gringuito!

 

[InTheShed]

Good luck with the hoop house! Also, was the soil cooking in a cool location? That might be the reason you weren't getting any action after three weeks.