ClosetCase420's - RDWC - 600W MH/HPS - Wonder Woman - Grow Journal - 2015

I certainly am curious on that tea VI. Make sure I catch where you start on that... Not saying.. just saying you may be winning me over to live.. but not saying (i just loaded up on sterile stuff ;/) I probably would use up what I bought first but want to know for future...
Good work here bro...

FE
 
So no infection that is good. We just had an issue of out of balance PPMs. I am gonna get long winded but the reason is the nute profile I will explain at the end.

So I don't know if I explained this to you yet but the plant uses less than 1% of the water it soaks up. The way a plant works is it uses these little holes in the leaf called Stoma to breath and transpire. It opens up the stoma to allow water vapor out and that is what happens to the other 99% of the water. So the plant adjusts the internal relative humidity of the leaf with these stoma and if it is drier in the leaf than the stem then water will move up the stem into the leaf.

So the plant did not open the stoma last night which may be due to some shock from the res change but likely is due to it is happy where it is. The roots are re-balancing their concentration to match the res. The res is in a good spot unless you are nearing the end of bloom. The lights you have are strong enough for full strength photosynthesis. So you should be in the clear. I suspect give it about 12 more hours and it will start up again. it will need lights on. I suspect the lights are off now? If so check when they come on and a few hours into the day... and you should see it taking off again.

There are plenty of stored up nuts in the plant for at least a few days. That is why we always have 3 days to fix a problem before the plant really is stressed. So the plants are likely just fine and the roots are re-balancing to the new solution profile.

And that is the real issue. It can't do much about the nutes in the roots but use them or leach them back. Right now it is trying to get used to the new ratio of nutes and rejigger itself to handle that. The roots are trying to get back in balance as we made a fairly drastic change there I think they were not ready for.

And by the way this is very common for people who do this at the right time.

Normally people switch nute profile at the light change and the water uptake slows but when you add in the stretch it all seems to work out. You kept running full tilt veg profile deep into bloom and are now asking the plant to change its eating habits. So I suspect this is just the typical change over break that occurs when you drop off Nitrogen.

This is another reason why I start adding MOAB a week before the light change. I start building up higher levels of P-K and start letting the nitrogen go away and transition the profile slowly.

I am sort of glad we (here) weren't monitoring your nute profile just your PPMs and let you run them out of order to see what happens. You are still going to have a great harvest but are learning more than you anticipated this way.
 
So no infection that is good. We just had an issue of out of balance PPMs. I am gonna get long winded but the reason is the nute profile I will explain at the end.

So I don't know if I explained this to you yet but the plant uses less than 1% of the water it soaks up. The way a plant works is it uses these little holes in the leaf called Stoma to breath and transpire. It opens up the stoma to allow water vapor out and that is what happens to the other 99% of the water. So the plant adjusts the internal relative humidity of the leaf with these stoma and if it is drier in the leaf than the stem then water will move up the stem into the leaf.

So the plant did not open the stoma last night which may be due to some shock from the res change but likely is due to it is happy where it is. The roots are re-balancing their concentration to match the res. The res is in a good spot unless you are nearing the end of bloom. The lights you have are strong enough for full strength photosynthesis. So you should be in the clear. I suspect give it about 12 more hours and it will start up again. it will need lights on. I suspect the lights are off now? If so check when they come on and a few hours into the day... and you should see it taking off again.

There are plenty of stored up nuts in the plant for at least a few days. That is why we always have 3 days to fix a problem before the plant really is stressed. So the plants are likely just fine and the roots are re-balancing to the new solution profile.

And that is the real issue. It can't do much about the nutes in the roots but use them or leach them back. Right now it is trying to get used to the new ratio of nutes and rejigger itself to handle that. The roots are trying to get back in balance as we made a fairly drastic change there I think they were not ready for.

And by the way this is very common for people who do this at the right time.

Normally people switch nute profile at the light change and the water uptake slows but when you add in the stretch it all seems to work out. You kept running full tilt veg profile deep into bloom and are now asking the plant to change its eating habits. So I suspect this is just the typical change over break that occurs when you drop off Nitrogen.

This is another reason why I start adding MOAB a week before the light change. I start building up higher levels of P-K and start letting the nitrogen go away and transition the profile slowly.

I am sort of glad we (here) weren't monitoring your nute profile just your PPMs and let you run them out of order to see what happens. You are still going to have a great harvest but are learning more than you anticipated this way.
 
What a great post.. Thanks VI.

You are correct that I took the reading this morning and looked at the res level before the lights came on.

I checked again and took another reading just now, 6.3/740 and the water level has gone down a bit so it appears the girls have adjusted to the new nute profile and started to soak it up again?

Also couldn't resist sharing this photo. I took this one this morning right before the lights came on, the full high res copy is amazing.

20160130_095526_-_Copy.jpg
 
Appreciate the good post VI I always learn from your posts exactly where I am at. Some I knew some i didn't. I appreciate the time you take to explain all that stuff. CC420 you found the right person to teach you this stuff super early on Grats... Keep up the good work. Your next grow will be amazballs! Trust me. And that bud looks tasty... looking great now!


:peace:

FE
 
Latest reading 6.3/730. Seems like there drinking and there taking in the nutrients. I like that. FE.. you have no idea, without VI I'd be lost and would have had the same crap quality I've had in the past. With his help I'll hopefully be able to produce enough to last us a nice long time. Thanks with all my heart VI, you rock!

According to the chart right now I should be between 67 and 72 degrees, my actual average day/night temperatures are 61 and 66 degrees so I'm not far off there. I did notice though that in late veg/early bloom the temperature should be about 10 degrees higher. I've been steady with the temperature throughout the entire veg/bloom.

I'm also supposed to be between 32% and 50% RH, my actual averages are 30% and 37%.
I actually bought a humidifier specifically for this and used it on my previous grow.
I had a problem that the humidity caused the electrical connections to get moisture which caused a breaker to pop.

I'll have to think about how I can warm in early bloom and humidify the cabinet.

The next thing is PH. According to the chart the pH should be a steady 5.8 from this point for the next two weeks. With the issues I've had with pH do you think I should leave it be or add some pH- to bring the pH down to 5.8? If you think I should use the pH- let me know your recommended method? I want to be sure that the way I've been doing it is the correct way.

Lastly PPM. I'm sure each plant is specific in its needs but the chart says approx 1.4 EC which is 700 ppm. If you take my base of 130 - 150 ppm then I should be around 830 - 850 ppm. I don't think I should try and increase the feeding anymore but I suppose this is a good reference for the next project. I wonder if I should start a new thread for that project?
 
Kinda like a genie in a bottle...you gotta make the right request to get me to spew the right info. Its all in there... I just can't put it all down in one post...nor remember it all the time...I smoke a lot. :)


Temps you want to control by having an adjustable fan controller on a good sized fan. Then you adjust the ventilation to suit your needs.

Humidity...Hang a bunch of wet towels in there. re-soak them usually every 6 hours but depends on temps and ventilation. you have a small space so that will make things more difficult. the smaller the space the more difficult. Humidity below 40% will stunt growth throughout most of the grow. Only near the end is it good to let it go down. So think about that. If you would have hung some towels in there it would have grown much faster and you might have even been close to done by now.

I broke too many humidifiers letting them dry out when I couldn't be there. Now I use towels.


PH is a bit more complicated. Remember how I have explained that the pH is really a function of the PPM in a good res? Also remember I have said don't mess with it when it is in the good range and each time you did it went whack on you? So the real deal here that most people who only do hydro research on cannabis sites do get is this is a normal thing for the plant to regulate. We don't need to tell it what to do. There are many good hydro farms growing real food that you can go read about. They will tell you that the pH naturally drifts up and down and doesn't need to be messed with. If the plant is having an issue you will see it in the growth. But it will naturally go down as it needs to. All you want to do is add fresh top off at 5.8 that is at the right PPM. As long as there is no infection or problem then the res will take care of itself.

So your math is correct on the PPM the deal is that chart is based on a professional grow with overlapping great light and lots of great ventilation and perfect temps and humidity. You don't have any of that. you are doing great and have an outstanding DIY but no one is perfect in a small space like that. So likely your Photosynthesis is lower than the chart is trying to talk about so likley your PPM should be less. Not crazy less. I think you are about right just now. the thing is stable telling you that you are correct. So I think I have told you this a bunch already but it is time for patience. Cannabis likes to be left alone.


:thumb:

:goodjob:
 
All that being said VI.... Amazing of course as usual.
Since he just did a res change should he use all the tools (ph down etc) to get the res to 5.8 ... then let it fluctuate as it needs? (in a good environment.) Topping it with the 5.8 correct ppm top off?

If you do a res change and leave it at 6.3 or something will it work its way back down. ??or will it be too long that it will delay or affect the intake of elements not in range?

Hope you get what I mean...

Thanks in advance VI

FE
 
Smaller spaces are definitely harder to regulate. Things change fast. Twice I have upgraded the size of my grow area larger and both times it made things all slow down and easier to manage.. regulate. Including reservoir sizes etc.. I use more stuff in it but no spikiing as much anymore..

Not possible for everyone of course .. but all the stuff VI mention can automate as much as possible for you and that helps...


Good Work!

FE
 
Far East Buds said:
All that being said VI.... Amazing of course as usual.
Since he just did a res change should he use all the tools (ph down etc) to get the res to 5.8 ... then let it fluctuate as it needs? (in a good environment.) Topping it with the 5.8 correct ppm top off?

If you do a res change and leave it at 6.3 or something will it work its way back down. ??or will it be too long that it will delay or affect the intake of elements not in range?

Hope you get what I mean...

Thanks in advance VI

FE
Click to expand...

This is what I meant as well? Since I just did a full res change and it doesn't seem likely that the pH is going to drop back down to the 5.8 range should I force it down and then leave it alone? Otherwise won't sitting in the low 6s keep the girls from absorbing the nutrients that fall into the low 5 ranges?
 
yes I thought I mentioned that...let me look.

Yup at 6:49 yesterday I posted that you top off with 5.8 and it will all be good.


What I am saying is don't just add acid to the res directly. Just give it a minor adjustment one top off at a time. This prevents shock and keeps things stable.

:thumb:
 
And no... low 6's is fine. It is in the good range meaning it is good. Sure a few points down is slightly better but you can still get what you need at 6.2... if not it would not be considered in the good range. Just work it slowly down and there will be no problems.

Nutrient_Uptake_and_pH1.jpg
 
I understand now, just use the topping off process to gradually lower the pH by adding 5.8 pH water.

So with that being said the res was down just under 5 gallons today (5 gallons in 3 days) so I went ahead and topped the res off. Before topping the res off the reading was 6.3/780.

I used...

10ml orca
50ml FloraNectar
38ml Nirvana
75ml FloraBloom

The solution read 5.7/750.

I took an immediate reading and a reading 3 hours later and both times there has been no change in the current 6.3/780.
I'll take another reading in the morning. I'm really hoping with 1/3 of the res being added back with 5.7 the pH would have dropped to at least 6.0-6.1
 
They like it where they like it...I have come down with a cold maybe in a few days I will explain better.

They are drinking a good amount of relatively high concentration nutes. That is a good sign. The res is stable. You can't ask for more.


I told you early on that it was incorrect thinking based on a basic misunderstanding about how hydro works to force it to stay at a specific spot.


ALSO....

The reason one would want to lower it is to enable nute uptake of the Phos and Pot. But that is all you are putting in there now right? So the facts are irrefutable. At 6.3 they are loving it and sucking up, at a high rate, the exact nutes you have in there. Nothing is wrong everything is right.

You are trying to hit a pH because you read somewhere that it works better but you can't have it work any better than it is right now.

What would getting to 5.8 do for you?

In a healthy res the pH is set by the plant and the PPM and the level may cycle up or down a bit as the plant is exchanging what it wants. But nothing you can do right now will make it happier really...you just proved that.


:goodjob:
 
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