CFL vs LED? Hard Decisions

wannabe420 said:
Not sure I'm following you on this one. You saying don't use nutrients???

love and soil don't make shit, the nutrients do. If the plant uses nitrogen in a natural process, its the same whether its pulled from the organic raw materials or in simple chemical form (N) just the same with phosphorous (p) and potassium (k).

Feeding a plant these ELEMENTS (not chemicals) is just the same as feeding water in soil, only you can actually control what's going in with what you call "chemicals". Soil is literally random "shit". Especially when it comes to bagged soil. Only good one is Fox Farm.

And as far as the led choice, don't bother. CFL's do the same work for a whole lot cheaper and produce better results. Until it costs 5 bucks for a 27 watt led setup, get the CFL's. I made a 250 Watt CFL fixture with reflector for less than 40 bucks. Why bother spending 100's?

:reading420magazine:
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No I dont use them.

The plant grows almost anywhere without interference from man.

why change a million+ years of development with chemical elements?.

As far as a 23 watt cfl against a 3 watt led and the power consumption, is a no brainer on costage.


And if they grow under led cfl strobe flouresent ect ect ect ?

whats the big deal all about.
 
As far as choosing lights, there seems to be more to consider. And having a plan and sticking to it will save you money in he long run.

When I ran the 150hps ( no cooled hood ) in my cab ( 3 x 1.5 x 6 ft. ) I only had heat issues once when I forgot to turn on the exhaust fan/filter ( 50 cfm ) on when I was finished gardening one evening.

Now that I'm upping it to a 400hps, I definitely have to cool the hood because temps skyrocketed to 100 in there within minutes.

Too cool it I had to buy supplies to make a cool tube and cut 2 more holes in the cab. I also purchased a 250cfm duct fan. Not that big of a deal considering I've been buying stuff for about 6 months now to make the upgrade.

Since I've been enjoying cannabis for over 20 years and I'm not planning on changing anything soon. I know I can grow stuff that is better than anything I could buy around here. So I'm taking my time and doing it right.


DO you have an airflow plan?
and are you going to filter the air?

Have you looked at a 2x4 T5 light, 2 feet long, 4 bulbs for about 120?

- peace from chicago
 
HempRocket said:
Here's the thing, I haven't used LED's to grow yet and I will probably not use them for some time as I believe that they are waaaaay too expensive at the moment (at least the good quality one's). You said that you already have the MH/HPS kit and you...

If your only consideration is the electric bill, I'm just going to repeat myself....you won't save that much. With CFL's you will probably have to match the HPS watt for watt in order to get the same results. But hey go out and buy a light for $600 (LED) and get the same results as you would with your HPS (that you already own).
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Hemprocket, are you considering the additional cooling, etc. involved with using mh/hps? Maybe redo the math, the energy consumption with hps is always going to be much higher because it takes more electricity to cool that extra heat, period. And, he's growing in an enclosed environment, not an open room or anything like that. I use a 700 watt led that kicks the crap out of a 600 watt hps, 3 watt bulbs, 65000 lumens - 8000 at over 40 feet away, passive ventilation only and my temps stay between 74 and 82, rh between 25 and 60
 
akaman said:
And that's why I've been leaning toward LED's, no real need to cool. They come with built in fans and if needed I could always add a small fan. Just seems a good way to go, if they can be afforded. And it's not like i'm trying to get the 300 watter or higher, the 180 would do me fine.
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as long as you keep with the lower wattages you will be cool. Step up to the bigger lights and it's time to add more ventilation!! My 700 watter runs right at 101 degrees at the light, with the temp gauge sitting right on the light. It drops rapidly as you move away, 96 just a couple of inches away, stays 72 at the roots, 75-82 thru the canopy. I have passive vents low and high, and at each end and sides.
 
Hey akaman,

I was a CFL guy for 2 years but now I just bought two of the 180 LEDs from the same company that Namaste used in his grow journal. They cover a 4x4' tent. I use 1 intake fan, 1 scrubber and 1 outtake fan to cool the tent and temps fluctuate between 75-82 degrees although we haven't had the hot weather yet in SoCal.

I used to use dozens of CFLs to cover a 4x4' tent (over a 1000 watts) and my electric bill was an additional $30 a month. I have yet to see what kind of electricity these 2 LEDs will pull so I can't make a comparison yet.

The way I think about cost though does not only concern electricity consumption. There's also the matter of cooling the grow space and also replacing bulbs. CFLs lose their effectiveness over time and you need to replace them. These LEDs are advertised to last thousands of hours that equate to many grow seasons. So in my mind, if I can get 4 or 5 seasons of growing with just these LEDs then they will be well worth the investment.

There's also the simplicity of them. They're pretty much hassle free.

Here's what I think. If you're the type of grower who only grows 1 or 2 plants then I would use CFLs. They're cheap and effective and you can handle the heat with a few plants because you won't need so many of them.

If you have a tent and are growing say 6 plants then you probably could invest in an LED. To me it comes down to the longevity of the LEDs. If they last 5 seasons like they advertise then that's 5 seasons of worrying about nothing but seeds, the medium and nutes. That's how I came to my decision to drop a dime on 2 LEDs.

Hope that helps a little bit. If you want to see some LEDs in action go to Journals In Progress and look up staffy or yum's grow journals.
 
lbezphil2005 thx for input still have alot to think about between led and cfl's but the responses are truly helpful. It seems like every response sends me in another direction. And yeah i would only stay low like the 180 , nothing higher at the moment. Peace.

ChicagoJoe, my 150 watt gro only had heat problems because i had no ventilation system and i left the doors cracked to ventilate but that was my first and only gro to date. And i really don't know much about hooking up fans so my future ventilations will probably be passive( if that means cutting holes for air) but i've been reading up and following some grows so i've actually learned alot (at least about growing ) and yes i have been thinking about the t5's because my gro will probably be no more than 4 plants( if i'm lucky enough to get 4 girls), they're definitely more affordable than leds at the moment. Thx Joe much appreciated.

zzoomm100 said:
Hey akaman,

I was a CFL guy for 2 years but now I just bought two of the 180 LEDs from the same company that Namaste used in his grow journal. They cover a 4x4' tent. I use 1 intake fan, 1 scrubber and 1 outtake fan to cool the tent and temps fluctuate between 75-82 degrees although we haven't had the hot weather yet in SoCal.

I used to use dozens of CFLs to cover a 4x4' tent (over a 1000 watts) and my electric bill was an additional $30 a month. I have yet to see what kind of electricity these 2 LEDs will pull so I can't make a comparison yet.

The way I think about cost though does not only concern electricity consumption. There's also the matter of cooling the grow space and also replacing bulbs. CFLs lose their effectiveness over time and you need to replace them. These LEDs are advertised to last thousands of hours that equate to many grow seasons. So in my mind, if I can get 4 or 5 seasons of growing with just these LEDs then they will be well worth the investment.

There's also the simplicity of them. They're pretty much hassle free.

Here's what I think. If you're the type of grower who only grows 1 or 2 plants then I would use CFLs. They're cheap and effective and you can handle the heat with a few plants because you won't need so many of them.

If you have a tent and are growing say 6 plants then you probably could invest in an LED. To me it comes down to the longevity of the LEDs. If they last 5 seasons like they advertise then that's 5 seasons of worrying about nothing but seeds, the medium and nutes. That's how I came to my decision to drop a dime on 2 LEDs.

Hope that helps a little bit. If you want to see some LEDs in action go to Journals In Progress and look up staffy or yum's grow journals.
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hey zzoomm100, thx for responding. i had to quote your whole post because you make the arguement that i have been lamenting over. Cfl's would be great for the gro i had in mind which is 2 to 4 plants. On the other hand, leds have started to make some good headway in the light dept. It's really a matter of finding a reputable company and deciding to spend the money. ChicagoJoe said it best" get a plan and stick to it". Thx all , i'm indebted:thumb::peacetwo:
 
lbezphil2005 said:
as long as you keep with the lower wattages you will be cool. Step up to the bigger lights and it's time to add more ventilation!! My 700 watter runs right at 101 degrees at the light, with the temp gauge sitting right on the light. It drops rapidly as you move away, 96 just a couple of inches away, stays 72 at the roots, 75-82 thru the canopy. I have passive vents low and high, and at each end and sides.
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Ibezphil i'm sorry but i think i answered your post in zzoom's also!
 
it'll all work out in the end.
by work out ... I mean you will work it out and build it.

then you will start seeing how to improve it and eventually you will want to work it out again..

Peace, - Joe
 
Akaman,

I forgot to mention Stevehman. Look up his grow journals. He's used/using lights from two reputable companies. Between Namaste, Lao Tsu and Stevehman you can get a first hand look at a complete LED grow with the right kind of LEDs. Of course all 3 of those guys are skilled growers but there's no reason you can't reach that level with experience. Good luck.
 
zzoomm100 said:
Akaman,

I forgot to mention Stevehman. Look up his grow journals. He's used/using lights from two reputable companies. Between Namaste, Lao Tsu and Stevehman you can get a first hand look at a complete LED grow with the right kind of LEDs. Of course all 3 of those guys are skilled growers but there's no reason you can't reach that level with experience. Good luck.
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Thx again zzoomm, i've followed namaste and lau tsu's grows. I just got a ticket to ride with staffy's and will prolly follow yums too, thx for that info btw:thumb:. If you decide to do a journal zzoomm, plz count me in:popcorn: Gonna look up stevehman now:peacetwo:
 
IF You have the money go with led's. The watts are one thing on power draw, the others is amperage. led's use about half the amps as a bulb too so the savings are really there. it will pay for it'self unlike the cfls or a 400w unit you mentioned, kind of a no brainer.

I have seen only a few good cfl grows however I have seen alot of grows.

The whole growing process will be ten times easier with led's less heat, less stress, less electric...
 
GrowGSL said:
IF You have the money go with led's. The watts are one thing on power draw, the others is amperage. led's use about half the amps as a bulb too so the savings are really there. it will pay for it'self unlike the cfls or a 400w unit you mentioned, kind of a no brainer.

I have seen only a few good cfl grows however I have seen alot of grows.

The whole growing process will be ten times easier with led's less heat, less stress, less electric...
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Thx for the feedback GrowGSL, I've followed one cfl grow (Matanuska Valley) that is incredible (check his pics out and I think you will agree) and is actually the basis for which I started this thread. I've also followed a couple of led grows which were awesome too. For what I had in mind I think a 4 bulb 2 foot t5 could do the job also. What it comes down to is, do I want to spend the big bucks that a good quality led is going to cost? I totally agree with you on the process being much more easier, it's just that led's are so damn expensive and I'm tired of buying lights I'm not using. T5 lights are affordable but I'm loving the led's too. What a dilemma! Still at square one on this issue. Thx again bro.:hmmmm: p.s. do you have any documented grows I can check out? Much appreciated.
 
No Prob Akaman, I’m glad you’re here sharing your experience. I totally understand your dilemma, you want to grow with led’s but they cost more in the beginning than some of the other options out there.

Here's my thoughts:

So 4 of those 2ft t5's pull about 100 watts, I am sure anyone here will tell ya that’s not going to grow ya to much, especially if your new to growing. Now I am not sure how much you’re after, but if you’re going to go through the whole 3-4 month grow process you might as well get a decent amount of buds ya know?

Those t5 lose intensity quick, they need changed every 2 grows or you will get even less from them. They surely don’t have much intensity either, unless you’re going a 10” tall scrog it will be a challenge to get those bottom buds nice and sparkley. Plus they are hot, you need to ride the fine line of keeping the plants close and not stunning them from the heat.

At least with the GS-300 Pro-Bloom you’re getting more like 250 Watts to the plants, and it’s only the spectrum's you need to grow cannabis, no wasted electric. Our lights are Quantum tuned and can actually speed up the growth time by 2 weeks! With 3watt leds you can reach 3.5-4 ft no prob!

We have a Canasumer Report being conducted any day now with 420 magazine. They already have 2 GS-600 Pro-Blooms, we donated $2700 in lights just to prove how serious they are. There going to be Vegging & BLOOMING a 4x8 hydro table so it should be a great show to watch. Were waiting to here back from the grower now.

If you like though, go to our website and checkout all this information about led's and why we designed out LED Grow lights the way we did, it's really alot of great info back behind alot of development: About Quantum Efficiency
 
after having decent success with a UFO 90, I was in the market to move up but saw too many shortfalls in LEDs in general. I had to replace mine twice due to bad transformers, but the company was honorable.

Not being aware of GSLs "Quantum" technology, I opted for a Quantum Bad Boy HO T 5 (8 bulbs @ 4ft= ~ 400 watts). I got a deal for $350, shipped. Among my reasons was the ability to play Sun God and mix 2700/6500 bulbs to mimic spring planting through fall harvest. Then I learned about the importance of Green for chlorophyll production. (I'll have to look for these bulbs.) Not sure whether any other LED mfgs has figured this out, but I am impressed that GSL is implementing it. His 300 seems like a decent price to me, but I do not have a clue what foot print it covers. My Bad Boy covers 2 X 4.

hth
 
PetFlora said:
after having decent success with a UFO 90, I was in the market to move up but saw too many shortfalls in LEDs in general. I had to replace mine twice due to bad transformers, but the company was honorable.

Not being aware of GSLs "Quantum" technology, I opted for a Quantum Bad Boy HO T 5 (8 bulbs @ 4ft= ~ 400 watts). I got a deal for $350, shipped. Among my reasons was the ability to play Sun God and mix 2700/6500 bulbs to mimic spring planting through fall harvest. Then I learned about the importance of Green for chlorophyll production. (I'll have to look for these bulbs.) Not sure whether any other LED mfgs has figured this out, but I am impressed that GSL is implementing it. His 300 seems like a decent price to me, but I do not have a clue what foot print it covers. My Bad Boy covers 2 X 4.

hth
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Hi PetFlora, I believe the footprint is 3x2, thats what the coverage is on the GSL website. Also in the post above yours it says 3.5 to 4 ft with no problem
 
I chose to grow using CFL this time around cuz my grow space is very small and I was hoping to avoid heat problems.

Unfortunately CFLs still produce a wicked amount of heat. I only have 10 23W bulbs, finally got temps under control with 270CFM high static pressure exhaust (in a 2x1.5x3.5' space), but now that i've covered these exhaust fans with a filter my temps have gone up to unreasonable amounts again (and I don't even know what to do about it lol). This is with only 230 (true) watts of CFL lighting.

So if heat is a concern for you, well there's my story, you'll still get it (unless you use very few CFLs).

As for LED, you won't personally ever see me buying panels, none of these companies deserve to exist for the ridiculously incredible inflation in price they have created, not even if I was rich :P.

I'd def. pic LED over CFL though if I built the LED panel myself.

Have you considered using BOTH? LED above the plants, and some CFL's providing side-lighting? The one incontrovertible truth about CFLs is that they are ridiculously cheap, scalable, and can be setup yourself without buying overpriced light fixtures.
 
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