CFL vs HPS Question

[Farang]

everything I read about growing to harvest with CFL's and/or T-5's says that bud development is hindered.

here's my quick question:

is this because most CFL's are daylight (6,200-6,700K) while the HPS is 2,500-2,700?

because if that's the major drawback, I may have a solution. I can buy 550W 2,700K CFL's. that could save me a bunch in electric bills and heat.

thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Java]

If you really want to save on electric bills you might want to look into LED lights. They are the cheapest to run and people are getting awesome results. But yeah for flowering you would want to run 2700k CFLs most already do. But your still not going to get the kinda buds you would with HPS or LED lights

 

[Farang]

OK. but my question is why?

if both put out the same K range, what is the difference?

LED would be a wonderful solution, except that where I live, they are Chinese, expensive and I have no idea whether or not they put out the right light. and everything I read says that the Chinese lights are garbage and fail with amazing regularity.

I have HPS lamps, though only 400W, the largest I've found to date. with 550W CFL's available, I'm considering switching, but I want to know the downside and why CFL's don't work.

 

[Dresney]

Hiya, Farang

It's not the spectrum of the CFL that produces those symptoms in buds, as I think most people usually add/switch 2700Ks in if they're going to flower with CFLs. The issue is light penetration. HID lighting is much more intense and able to penetrate much more effectively than CFLs.

That being said, there are several wonderful journals here with growers using CFLs throughout veg and flower with positive outcomes. If you try a grow with CFLs and are happy with the results, then it is a great idea to use them.

 

[1grower]

Sabay di krup!

 

[Farang]

sabai, dee, thanks.

 

[Farang]

thank you Dresney.

so there is nothing magic emanating from an HPS bulb; it's simply a matter of penetration, right?

maybe I'm over thinking this, but I use a lot of LST and achieve a very even canopy. I remove all the sucker buds from down low and I've begun using T-5's as side lighting.

as the plants mature, they drop the fan leaves and I don't see penetration as an issue.

if I switch to CFL's, I can run those bulbs much, much closer to the plants than I can with my HPS plus I can easily fit two CFL's with hoods in the same grow space as the HPS. I'll have to see, but I might even be able to fit three in there. so I'd move from a single 400W HPS to 1100 watts of CFL (1,650 with three) and my actual usage drops to 220 (330 with three) plus the heat reducing quality.

tell me I'm mad.

 

[theengineer]

I ran a dual spectrum 300w CFL for veg, then added a second red 300w CFL for two weeks flowing, temps were 30+ degrees C

I then switched to a 600w HPS with a cool tube and temps are sitting at 24 degrees

when I looked at other grow journals and compared the plants to mine at the same stage, it was clear that CFLs are only good for single plants and that HPS is quite simply in another league. the bud growth I have seen since switching is unreal

 

[Java]

I Believe you have made a mistake in your calculations. 400W is the same as 400watts. The Capital W does not indicate a Killowatt it is still just a plain old watt. Killowatts are expressed as Kw , 1000 watts = 1 Killowatt. So as far as the power bill goes it would cost you almost 3 times as much in electric bill to run the 1100 watts CFL's then it would to run 400watts. @ 10 cents a kilowatt hour a 400 watt lamp costs about 40 bucks a month to run. 1100 watts would run you about 110 bucks. So your power bill is going to go up if you follow threw with the current plan.

 

[oldhippie64]

I'm confused how can your uasage drop if you're increasing the wattage from 400 to 550? or is the true wattage of the CFLs 110W and 550 a equivalent rating? if so your using the wrong numbers off the CFLs, you'll be cutting your light in half. you need to use the 110watts since that is the bulbs true wattage in figuring your plants light and not the equivalent wattage(it's a marketing ploy)

 

[Farang]

sorry. with these high power CFL's there is an effective wattage and actual wattage. these bulbs I'm looking at are 550W effective with an actual usage of 110.

 

[Java]

Ahhhhh ok now it makes sense. So true watts is 110. So 2 CFL @110 watts will save you 180 watts over the 400HPS. It will also run cooler. 3 CFLs will only save you 70 watts. But your going to be taking a step backwards as far as yield you wont have as many lumens and also light penetration will be quite a bit less with the CFL's. So if your main concern is to lower your power bill and you dont care about the yield going down then go for it.

But if you want to lower your power bill and not affect the yield or maybe even increase it a bit you really need to look into LED lights. Go to the journal section and check out what folks have been doing with LEDs. The link to my journal is in my sig. You can see what i am doing with 192 True Watts.

 

[Farang]

yes. sorry for being unclear.

LED's here are only Chinese units which have a terrible reputation and are horribly expensive. until quality improves and prices drop, I'm not going that direction.

but if penetration is the be all/end all, then I would think LED's have less penetration power than T-5's or CFL's. no?

 

[Java]

No 3 watts LED'd have about 12 inches of penetration threw a thick canopy, the 5 watt leds get about 18 inches. I dont know the numbers of CFL's but it is less for sure.

 

[Farang]

I can't argue your facts as I truly don't know anything at all about LED's.

I want to get back to the original question. is penetration is the ONLY argument making HPS superior to CFL or is there something else contributing to their efficacy?

 

[Buddy Ebsen]

HPS will promote more compact and denser buds. I'm running a 400 watt MH + 2 x 250 actual watt self ballasted CFLs in veg right now. I wasn't sure which way to go, so I compromised to see what is better for me. From what I am reading and from what I have researched, the MH or HPS bulbs are far better for penetration and bud density, than the CFLs. I think I would rather have thicker compact buds than smaller fluffier ones. Am going to flip in 2 weeks, so I will be able to tell you more later.

 

[CO Finest]

For all the money and thinking This is a very cheap way and it works great. 100x3w led grow light They are from one of 420mag sponsors.

 

[Graytail]

Penetration is sort of an issue, but like you say, you can get CFLs really close and adjust them around a small grow.

The main thing is the relationship between lumens, watts and heat. HID wins that one. By the time you get enough CFLs to properly flower a plant, you have such high wattage and heat that you'd be better off with HID, as theengineer pointed out.

I tried it, and 600 watts of hps blows away 600 watts of CFL. It isn't that it won't work, it's a waste of money and power.

... usually ...

Nothing magical about hps, no. It's just the most light per watt, which means less heat per watt believe it or not, and it's the most light per dollar.

 

[Buddy Ebsen]

Penetration is sort of an issue, but like you say, you can get CFLs really close and adjust them around a small grow.

The main thing is the relationship between lumens, watts and heat. HID wins what one. By the time you get enough CFLs to properly flower a plant, you have such high wattage and heat that you'd be better off with HID, as theengineer pointed out.

I tried it, and 600 watts of hps blows away 600 watts of CFL. It isn't that it won't work, it's a waste of money and power.

... usually ...

Nothing magical about hps, no. It's just the most light per watt, which means less heat per watt believe it or not, and it's the most light per dollar.

Graytail, what do think of the combo that I am running? I could have went with a 1000 Light, but didn't want to deal the heat in a tent, so i sort of compromised.

 

[Graytail]

Graytail, what do think of the combo that I am running? I could have went with a 1000 Light, but didn't want to deal the heat in a tent, so i sort of compromised.

I use the small 23watt CFLs because they're more efficient, so I don't know how the big ones work. I use mine in veg. I have one rig with 18 bulbs = 414 watts, and another with 10 = 230 watts. What I like is that I can run them 2 inches from the tops and get really tight internodes, and I never have to worry about burning them. HID requires a lot more overheard clearance, too. I've been toying with the idea of building a top/bottom double cabinet for veg, and running the CFLs vertically with a baffle to collect the heat from the ballasts - just a panel with holes large enough for the ballasts to clear when you screw 'em in - run air across the baffled space and vent it out before it gets to the cabinet.

Anyway, I've been looking for a deal on a 400 watt magnetic ballast to run a ceramic metal halide, myself. I might run it in flower with my 600 watt hps, or use it for the larger vegging plants. I think you have a nice versatile setup. You have the 400 to really blast 'em and the CFLs for fill. When the CFLs wear out, you can decide if you still like 'em or not. That's my plan - not sure if I want to re-up $100 worth of CFLs.