CFL Grow Advice Needed!

[donpaul.p]

bigger pot is always best, i transplanted mine today and they was all in smallish pots, now my smallest plant the nn x bb had only got its next set of leaves after the 1st seed leaves and when i took it out the pot you could see the roots running all through the pot and around the inner edge, they had even started to poke out the bottom of the pot, the root growth was more than the plant growth, i was shocked to see how much roots their was, any longer n it would of been root bownd, the other 2 plants where even worse, so good job i transplanted them to the pots im going to keep them in till the end

 

[Rabbit13]

I am growing 9 and using 4 27w and a 15 w and it seems to be doing great though there about 4 inches from the tops of them

 

[kaptinKhronic]

 

[donpaul.p]

yep, looks like you need bigger pots, your plants will be a lot better for it, i bet when you take them out the pots you will see the soil is pretty much full of leaves and ready to burst out the pot, just be carefull when you transplant them, just be gentle when you turn the pots upside down, make sure your supporting the soil and plant as best as you can you dont want the soil and plant to drop into your hand from the pot you need to support it then tap the pot or give the sides a gentle squeeze and it should slip out easily, mine have started growing a lot quicker now the roots have spread

 

[SolutionLogic]

it looks like your about the same spot in your grow as i am, i'm using 4-45w 4100k together under a hood and was getting mad undergrowth. i wanted more height so i started pulling back the light and i'm now 10" from the top. still not a clue what i want to do with it, don't know if i want to scrog or go to bud after about a foot and a half of growth and surround it with 12-23w 2700k. don't know if i'd get a 2 foot bud out of that or not.

 

[Mr Mud-Pie]

Well I think u need higher kelvin like 6100k or 5000k mmin that might be ur reason but idk

 

[donpaul.p]

id second mud pie, for veg you need mostly or all higher kelvins such as 6700 kelvin or daylight bulbs, the lower kelvin 2700 are for flowering, in my grow im using mostly 6700 kelvin for veg and thrown a couple of 2700 in for the extra light spectrum, you can grow using the mid range 4500 ones but you wont achieve maximum growth during veg, 23 watt cfl's the are in the 6700 kelvin range are the best to use, im using 30watts which work out more expensive but give off less lumins to watt ratio, i didnt know this till i started, how ever the 30 watts giv off a brighter light so do work out better but insted of having say to 30 watt cfls i would of got more lumin using 3 23watt 6700 kelvin cfl's instead so from now on ill either but the 23 watt 6700k bulbs and use them, or i can get a 100 watt actual power cfl for about £40 or just over £50 for a 200 watt if i can remember correct, i cant really afford it and not sure if would benefit me due to the fact its the same as having 4 23 watt cfl;s it just takes up less space and does give off more light, but when comparing the lumins to watts ratio it sort of loses its appeal, im sure it would benefit my plant more than the 23 watts would but the cost of each bulb is high so chances are ill stick with having a load of 23 or 30 watt 6700 k above the plants then ill hang a load of 23watt 6700 kelvins all around the plants to penetrate lower branches and leaves during veg cycle, i will use a couple of the 2700 kelvin bulbs with these to give the plants a broader spectrum as the sun does give off the whole kelvin range so in my mind it can only do it good but people get great results just using 6700 for veg and 2700 for flower, when i come to flower the 2700 bulbs are easier and a hell of a lot cheaper to get, i can get a pack of four 23 watt 2700 kelvin bulbs for a couple of quid in most shops and bigger out of town super markets so their easy to get hold of, how ever the problem is getting hold of the daylight or 6700 kelvin bulbs, i cant find anywhere that stocks them at all, even lighting shops dont sell them, they cost more money and ive found amazon the best and cheapest place for these daylight bulbs, or hydro shops but they only sell 100 watt cfls for about 40quid,

great journal so far though and ill keep checking in and see how things are going, theirs more cfl grows now so it can only get dialed in better and the results can only get better the more we learn and the more info we share, a lot of growers and i wont name names but even on this site put cfl's down and laugh you off the site if you say your going to use them for the whole grow, but using a search engine and searching for cfl grow videos and looking at the results and yields it proves them all wrong and shows they do actually work and produce good yields, this is my first grow using cfl's so like most im still learning and asking questions, a lot of people will help, like tesmp and quixilver they have helped me loads, theirs also loads of info on my journal just click on the link below and say high, theirs loads of nute info and what signs to look out for when problems happen and what the possible cause is plus all the help i got from other growers is in their so its a good read,

i hope your grow goes well and we prove all the haters wrong, would be good to win nug of the month or plant of the month, and if my berry bom ends up looking like it does on the net then im entering it for sure,

good luck mate

 

[donpaul.p]

sorry bout long post, i do ramble on a bit, its the insomnia catching up wiv me, sorry bro

 

[SolutionLogic]

and i just turned on the 4-23w 2700k bulbs. can't hurt! same plant, the photo that its the smallest in was 5 days ago in a smaller pot, the roots were up against the wall of the pot.

 

[SolutionLogic]

the perelite has worked miracles and i also mixed with a 8-8-0 organic fertilizer i found at walmart, in fact this whole thing is a walmart grow. still can't find 6500k bulbs anywhere in town, I WISH!

 

[TorturedSoul]

id second mud pie, for veg you need mostly or all higher kelvins such as 6700 kelvin or daylight bulbs, the lower kelvin 2700 are for flowering

I generally recommend a 3:1 mix (75% 6500K:25% 2700K for vegetative growth, and the opposite for flowering). Not an absolute requirement, of course, but it seemed to be helpful regardless of the type of lighting being used.

just over £50 for a 200 watt if i can remember correct, i cant really afford it and not sure if would benefit me due to the fact its the same as having 4 23 watt cfl;s

Not sure that you're correct there. You might be, but I would expect (some amount of) greater penetrative ability with the higher-wattage CFLs as compared to the low-wattage ones.

i hope your grow goes well and we prove all the haters wrong

I don't consider myself a hater but some might believe otherwise since I often recommend HIDs. (The only thing I "hate" is when people fail to realize how inefficient CFLs are in general when compared to decent HID setups - and when they insist on comparing smaller CFL setups with high-wattage HIDs instead of actually comparing them on a watt-per-watt basis (they make HIDs in 250-, 175-, 150, 70-watt, etc. sizes too, folks). Oh, and people referring to the wattage of a CFL bulb by its so-called "equivalent" wattage which tends to confuse people from time to time and has no place on a site for growing cannabis - or for growing anything for that matter - because it's not like a person could have a successful grow with incandecent bulbs in the first place, so it's completely irrelevant whether a CFL bulb produces a comparable amount of illumination (where the human eye is concerned, which also has little bearing on how bright the light is in actuality and how useful it is to a plant) to the old-fashioned incandescent bulb in your reading lamp of X wattage any way.)

So, as usual, I hope my words do not offend. They are almost never (err... we all have our moments, lol) meant to.

And I have seen decent bud harvested from CFL grows. Just figured I'd mention that .

 

[donpaul.p]

those 6700kelvin veg bulbs are hard to find in super markets and even lighting shops, your plants will just stretch without them and wont make the plant bushy and this will decreasy yield by loads,

in all the super markets and hardware stores and even big lighting stores you will only find the 2700 kelvin bulbs that are for vegging, these bulbs give off an orange glow and not a bright whiteish blue glow, you can buy packs of 2700kelvin cfls in any super market for a couple of quid, if you are using energy saving bulbs in any lights in your house then they will be the 2700kelvin range ones, these are very cheap to buy and are stocked everywhere,

as for the 6700kelvin bulbs i looked in super markets and big hardware outlets like tool station and screw fix and even general building supplie stores and none of them stocked the higher kelvins, i even went into a specialist lighting shop that only sold lights and the sold everything except these 6700 kelving cfl's now home lighting dont use 6700 cuz their just to bright and people wouldnt buy them as they cost more than the 2700 lights and most regular customers lighting their house will happily use the 2700 as they give off light similar to the old incandecent light bulbs, now some hardware supply stores will sell out door lighting or security or work lights, if your lucky you may find a 6700 k bulb in with these but you may end up buying the whole light just to get the bulb.

now no matter what super market or hardware store you go to you wont find the 6700 kelvin bulbs they just dont stock them, hydro shops only sell actual 100watt cfl ( not the 23watt cfls that say 100watt equivalent,) and these are expensive to buy, now the only place i have managed to source the proper cfl's for veg cycle was amazon, i managed to get 30 watt cfl's 6700 kelvin for £5 each and a couple of quid postage so i would look their or the well known auction site, make sure you read the bulb spec and check the fitting as their are 2 types, screw fit and bayonet fit, thats in the UK so not sure what fittings they use in US, those 2 sites are the only place you will get them from, you can buy them in packs of 2 or 3 that work out cheaper but i was using gift vouchers and didnt have enough to buy more than 1 at a time, you will need these 6700kelvin bulbs else the plant will be tall and skinny and will end up need supporting so it dont fall over and yield will be low, search amazon for the bulbs you need, they cost more than the 2700 as their harder to make and not many people buy them so this pushes the prices up, i started with one 6700 bulb and when i finally got 4 of them in their the plants started growing loads and spacing between leaves or nodes is tight and the plants have stopped stretching and are now filling out more, the growth rate has improved loads.

the best thing you can do is do your best to get the 6700 kelvin, i went for the 30 watt cfl 6700k bulbs as i didnt research what was best but the 23 watt give off better ratio of lumins to watts so 2 of my 30 watt bulbs give off slightly less lumins than 3 23 watt, so the 3 23watt cfls will give off more lumins per bulb how ever the 30 watt bulb is brighter, you just use more power for slightly less lumin to watt ratio, n to be honest unless you was using say 20 bulbs you wouldnt notice the cost difference, so in my oppinion go for the ones that are the best price, check the fittings and try and buy 2 or 3 in a pack as it saves postage costs and you get better deals,

your plants will benefit loads and you will notice the difference within a day or 2 your plants will love the right bulbs,

its worth the pain of ordering them, its not worth looking in shops they just dont stock them and if they did i was told by the lighting shop they could order me a few iif i wanted them but then they told me how much and it was nearly 3 times the price on amazon so i didnt order them and got them off amazon, i never tried the auction site i went to amazon as i had amazon vouchers, but trust me its not worth trying to grow them with the 2700 k bulbs keep them up for the flower stage ive used four 6700 k bulbs at the minute but am getting more and ive got 2 2700k bulbs miced in to give the plants a fuller light spectrum,

its up to you but from what ive learned with cfl's you really do need the 6700 k, the other 2700 will just stretch the plant and your plant wont bush out

 

[TorturedSoul]

I think you mean 6500K bulbs where you typed 6700K?

Things must be different in GB. I was in one of my local "department-store hardware stores" the other day and there were several choices in 6500K CFLs (they were labeled "Daylight," iIRC) alongside the others ("Warm" and "Cool" White).

Funny thing is, I was in there looking for a 250-watt MH bulb in 6500K to use for early vegetative - and all I could find there were the 4200K ones. Guess we're both somewhat annoyed with our local retailers. Hope you find the bulbs you're looking for.

BtW, one reason that a 75%:25% ratio might be helpful is that it does allow enough stretch that the plant develops (more of) a healthy structure and "stretches" just enough to more fully allow the available light to reach all the chloroplasts. Also, there's the whole "more complete spectrum" argument, which probably really is important whenever we use lights that weren't designed specifically for growing and do not have a complete (or even "mostly so," really) PAR spectrum. It has seemed to me that - all other conditions being equal - that ratio of lighting - and reversing it during flower - produced a higher yield, overall. I'm thinking around 13%, but can't swear to it as it's been a while since I kept records about such things.

 

[donpaul.p]

cfls are not efficient but when the bulbs cost next to nothing and easier to keep in a small grow, i got wrong the 200 watt cfl i meant the 100 watt cfl gives off less lumins to watt ratio than it would using 4 say 25 watt cfls. but in my own oppinion the difference between the 23 watt and 30 watt cfl brightness is noticable so i went with the 30watt cfls and the lumin to watt ratio is not to worry about using so few bulbs.

my grow is an experiment, i used sodium bulbs in past and got great results, im on very low budget and cant go out and spend 200 to 500 quid on a lighting sytem when i can get cfls for next to nothing, you may get bigger yields using proper lighting but ive seen plenty of great grows using cfls, im only growing 3 plants so think cfls will be ok, this is my first grow using them and the results will show me the way to go, i just wanted to see what you could achieve using them, people veg under the strip lights but cfls are now getting a lot better. hydro shops sell them for the veg cycle so people do use them.

im not saying for 1 min ill get anywhere near the results as i would using proper lights, but cfls are cheap and give off very little heat and when you want to keep it all under the radar they suit me fine, i can hold each of my 30 watt cfls bulbs in my hand for as long as i like without it getting even hot, a lot of people are trying cfl;s and they will only get better and better, i just wanted to see what results i could get using them, before this grow i had never thought about using them till one day i was looking on net and found some journals using them and their are loads of videos and journals out their with amazing results using cfl's. they may take longer to veg and flower under them but im in no rush, im not trying to sell what i grow, so if i end up with a small yield then its a lesson learned but when ive seen some big plants that look as good as plants under bigger lights and growers getting great yields off them i thought id give it a try due to the low set up costs,

their are many growers on here using cfls and some have got great results, ive been getting advice off a few and these people are still using cfl's, its cheap, gives off little heat and can be contained in a small space with little ventilation, now i dont have height restraints with my grow but i didnt want to spend hundreds of pounds on 2 different lights so i could grow plants how most people grow, i just wanted to see the results for myself and the more results i come across on this site and others makes me realise it can be done and you can get great results,

i would love to have some proper grow lights but i live in a flat and cant have big fans running without the neighbours getting curious so cfls keep the heat to a minimum and so far all my plants seem to be doing ok, none of them are stretching and all are bushing out and plenty of new growth sites at the stem for new branches are all ready showing,

i neva thought id even get the results om getting now, but its suprised me so far,

as for the wattage a lot of people do get confused but i know from using cfls around my house that a 23 watt cfl is suppose to be the same as a 100 watt incandecent is a joke because if you had them side by side the incandecent would be brighter, so it cant be compared by that, as far as im concerned a 23 watt cfl means its a 23watt cfl, i dont even know why they compare them to 100 watt bulbs cuz i cant see how it compares myself so i agree on that, but thats down to the way their advertised, i would like to know why the compare like that and how they get their answers, it dont seem right to me at all, they should be marketed as what they are, a 23 watt cfl as this would save a hell of a lot of confusion between growers, people just starting out would think that it means what it says but clearly it doesnt.

fair play for saying you have seen good results using cfls. because like i said i have, ill agree with you as well that unless their is a great leap in technology and the way cfls put out their light and lumin amount they will never really compare, but i wanted to try it as its very low set up costs,

if i had the choice and money in my pocket id go and buy hid lights/sodium lights.

but another argument can be with led, i mean a couple of years ago who would of ever though led would be used to grow plants, ive seen good results their and led's are getting a lot better but till the prices in teh technology comes down i dont think its a viable option yet, maybe as an experiment to see what they do but only if i wanted to risk throwing money down the drain if it all went wrong and i was then stuck with a light, but if this cfl goes bad or low yield then at least i wont run out of light bulbs for at least a 100 years according to the box, some even say 10 year warranty, wonder if they keep their warranty though, doubt it but good advertisement.

sorry for long post n hyjacking this journal, and i know your not trying to argue or pick faults but just some of us like the low cost set up and how easy it is without having heavy balasts either in the grow room causing heat or wireing them in so the ballast is out side the grow, at the minute if anyone came in my flat they would would withing an inch or 2 of my grow room and would never know it was their, but with extraction fans and ballast i would struggle to keep it contained,

thanks for your input and advising on how the wattage works as i think thats a big point to mention, a 23 watt cfl is only a 23 watt bulb and not a 100 watt as it states on the box,

 

[donpaul.p]

exactly what im doing mate, ive got mostly 6700 k or 6500k bulbs and a couple of the 2700 thrown in the mix as well, as far as im concerned the sun puts out a full spectrum so the plants can only benefit from it, i mean even a bulb in the 4000k range mixed in can only help, i have seen mixed spectrum bulbs but not looked into them or looked at proces but im happy with using mostly 6500 (i think your right i think they was 6500 to be honest they came in plain white boxes so dont say on the boxes else i would check but your probably right, sounds about right and 2700k for veg i think thats where im getting confused)

anyway ive got 4 6500 k 30wattcfl's at the moment and 2 2700 20 watt cfls just for the extra spectrum, ive seen grows using strictly 6500 for veg and 2700 for flower and they got results using that set up i just think a mixed spectrum will produce better plants, i mean if 6500l stop the plants stretching and makes them bushy and 2700 makes them stretch and less bushy then have a ratio like you said of around say out of 10 cfls say 7 of them where 6500 then you would use 3 2700 k mixed in, thats roughly what ive got at the minute, ive got shed loads of 2700 k bulbs as their the standard cfl, i mean i can even get them free through the post from energy companies and newspapers usually advertise 4 free cfls if you fill in form as thats how i got most of mine, its just the 6500 k ones you cant seem to buy in normal shops, the nets the best way to go for daylight bulbs

 

[donpaul.p]

right then i just logged into amazon and looked at my purcheses in fact they wasnt either 6700 or 6500, in fact the daylight bulbs are in the 6400 range, the warm light ones are all in the 2700 but the bulbs im using and the ones that are for sale are all in the 6400 range, sorry for any confusion, so for veg you want mostly 6400 or around that depending on what your country sells, but bare in mind that different makers will vary the spectrum when they say 6400 as it seems to vary from make to maker, im sure i saw a chart on this a few weeks ago, so its 6400kelvin for veg, thanks for pointing that out, saves me confusing anyone, glad i checked,

 

[donpaul.p]

are you suppose to use mh bulb with a sodium bulb for optimum growth, ive looked for mh bulbs and i can only find ones more suitable for veg although you can use them to flower with as well, when i grew a jack flash years ago we was using a converted street lights which was a hps bulb and i got great results but im sure was used a mh security light during the veg stage, its that long ago i cant remember if we started off with the mh and it stopped working so converted a street light or if we used the one then the sodium to flower with, it was that long ago i cant remember, may of even been the other way round,

 

[donpaul.p]

i just g##gled metal halide and growing and it comes back that their best use for the veg cycle and it would be a hps to flower how ever it says hps can be used for both stages, are you using mh just for veg and then switching to hps, see to me this is where it starts to cost a lot of money, im sure you have to replace the bulb every year as well to ensure peak perfomance and the bulbs are not cheap, like i said if i had the money and no neighbours id be using both the hps and mh but the costs at the moment are to much for me and im not in it to make money so to outlay that much just to grow 2 or 3 plants seems a bot over kill for me, fair enough if you wanted big plants or sog and wanted them veg and flower really quick, i have used them in the past and we had a 6ft jack flash plant, 5 ft n the pot was a ft, but t grew like a right monster you could more or less watch it grow, when it got past 3 ft you really noticed a difference every day and that was at 18=6 veg and 12-12 flower, but now im using cfl's i started on 20-4 but after research ive decided 24-0 will be my best option unless i notice problems in next day or to, or the growth is not increased if it dont grow more than it is now over the next few days then ill slowly reduce it to 20-4 again to cut electric costs down.

 

[donpaul.p]

thats worth knowing, so you could just buy a hps set up and use that for both bulb types, is their any restrictions, i know the ballast has a maximum watt but when changing the bulbs is it the same watts limit and are their special bulbs you need to use, and is it a normal hps balast that takes both bulbs or do you have to get a certain balast type,

thanks for that info, Tsemp, you always seem to pop up and drop some usefull info, it would cut costs down, ill keep that in mind after i have seen how the cfl's go, cheers mate

 

[donpaul.p]

thats not a bad price either mate, i was thinking i would need to spend around 500 quid, unless the prices are a lot more in the UK, im not sure how this would affect prices, ill give my hydro shop a call tomorrow and ask them, for this grow now ill stick with the cfl's i wanted to experient and see the results so i dont think i should change till this is finished, depending on the results the clones could go under new lights,
right say i was growing 4 or 5 plants, what light wattage wise would be best to buy that would allow me to use 2 bulbs in same ballast, ive seen some balasts have a switch in them to swap bulbs but that maybe to convert it the other way to what you said, so i could by a normal ballast and wouldnt need to buy a special bulb i could then just swap the bulb, if they are more expensive here as everything else seems to be then im not sure what to do, i think shipping from you supplier would cost more than it would to buy here, but say i ring hydro shop tomorrow what would i be asking them for, say for 5 plants what would be the lowest watt i could get away with, my flats fitted with a smart meter so its all monitored but ive changed every bulb in the house to 11 or 8 watt cfls so i can run a load of cfls on the grow so if i kept the watts low i could possibly get away with it, answer on my journal if you prefer iv took a lot of space in this journal, thanks for the info though, that makes me think differently possibly for my next grow or clones