Caveat Emptor, Buyer Beware, Hydro Grow LED!
- Thread starter jeb55
- Start date
I'm so happy to see someone actually keep up with the B.S. and post all of it to give knowledge to the likely "NEXT VICTIM". Thank you man and kudos to you for all your work and efforts to save all of us the anger and heartache we may have come in contact with...We need more of your kind and let all of the Cammies kill their business practices in a jiffie!!! Take care
Outdoorsman
New Member
So much to say, busy at the moment so Ill say this:
I have just received the Penetrator Pro 126W model.
I did not see any threads like this at the time.
More info later
I have just received the Penetrator Pro 126W model.
I did not see any threads like this at the time.
More info later
Outdoorsman
New Member
Alright peeps heres how this went down...
I ordered the light on 12/16 and wanted to cancel the order soon after I bought it( i read this forum). She said she would accept the cancellation as per our policies.
Everything seemed fine until I checked my paypal refund and it was 508$ out of 625$, in the notes on the refund it said a 20% restocking fee will be charged for cancellations....
The order had not even left the factory in China and she wanted 125$ FOR WHAT??
I called her bullshit and said thats No way to run a legitimate business, and that she should have warned me of the cancellation fee instead of beating around the bush.
I tried to get out of it but was not prepared to take the loss for nothing, so I was basically forced to buy the product
From the results of the regular 126W model, this Pro should at least be able to flower worth a damn, It has 25% more power consumption at 30% more intensity. We shall see as I am going to give this bitch a strong test run, and then compare it to GHL 180w model...
I have a huge conversation of her talking up her product and all of my questions being answered to the fullest extent, and then this terrible return shit occuring if anyone wants to here some Recent talk from this Person.
Ill Post it if ya want man, but it may just stir unwanted emotions for some peoples...
I ordered the light on 12/16 and wanted to cancel the order soon after I bought it( i read this forum). She said she would accept the cancellation as per our policies.
Everything seemed fine until I checked my paypal refund and it was 508$ out of 625$, in the notes on the refund it said a 20% restocking fee will be charged for cancellations....
The order had not even left the factory in China and she wanted 125$ FOR WHAT??
I called her bullshit and said thats No way to run a legitimate business, and that she should have warned me of the cancellation fee instead of beating around the bush.
I tried to get out of it but was not prepared to take the loss for nothing, so I was basically forced to buy the product
From the results of the regular 126W model, this Pro should at least be able to flower worth a damn, It has 25% more power consumption at 30% more intensity. We shall see as I am going to give this bitch a strong test run, and then compare it to GHL 180w model...
I have a huge conversation of her talking up her product and all of my questions being answered to the fullest extent, and then this terrible return shit occuring if anyone wants to here some Recent talk from this Person.
Ill Post it if ya want man, but it may just stir unwanted emotions for some peoples...
- Thread starter
- #185
Hi Outdoorsman, sorry to hear that! I don’t know about anyone else, but I would be glad to hear any excuses that Cammie might have given though I doubt that her tactics have changed. I would also like to know why you decided to buy the light? Did you see an advertisement, see a grow on a web site, word of mouth or what?
You posted; “It has 25% more power consumption at 30% more intensity”. There’s one of the problems, Cammies sales pitch and all web site posted information is BS. Here’s the deal, if you plug the light in and the LEDs illuminate, you will be fine. It is just not a quality light so don’t crowd it too much because it won’t really penetrate! The canopy will grow well if you keep the light close; 6-12in.
The problem is that one day the light will not illuminate when it is turned on or maybe just some othe LEDs won’t come on. In my experience with 5 of her lights, one failed immediately and one failed within 4 months. That’s a 20% failure rate with just one purchase. There is a Chinese web site that sells these LEDs (Cammies) and the 345w sells for $125.00. That’s a big difference from the $1,150.00 that she charged me. The only difference is that she has her cases stamped Penetrator. The 126w are probably real cheap there. The up side could be that once Cameron/Cammie is out of the picture, the Chinese web site is a replacement part source for anyone who owns an HGL light!
I’m not sure that legally, you would have to pay a restocking fee for a product that has not left the factory yet. And, you could dispute through PayPal because you found out that the company was criminal and wanted to cancel before you had taken possession of the product. Regardless, what’s done is done; I would just say this, if you are not 100% legal you should not let her/him know anything about what you are doing. I have no doubt that when Cameron/Cammie gets busted, and it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when, he/she will use all of the information that has been gathered through the MJ community to cut a deal for a lesser sentence!!
Also, did you tell her that you wanted to back out of the deal because you had read this thread?
You posted; “It has 25% more power consumption at 30% more intensity”. There’s one of the problems, Cammies sales pitch and all web site posted information is BS. Here’s the deal, if you plug the light in and the LEDs illuminate, you will be fine. It is just not a quality light so don’t crowd it too much because it won’t really penetrate! The canopy will grow well if you keep the light close; 6-12in.
The problem is that one day the light will not illuminate when it is turned on or maybe just some othe LEDs won’t come on. In my experience with 5 of her lights, one failed immediately and one failed within 4 months. That’s a 20% failure rate with just one purchase. There is a Chinese web site that sells these LEDs (Cammies) and the 345w sells for $125.00. That’s a big difference from the $1,150.00 that she charged me. The only difference is that she has her cases stamped Penetrator. The 126w are probably real cheap there. The up side could be that once Cameron/Cammie is out of the picture, the Chinese web site is a replacement part source for anyone who owns an HGL light!
I’m not sure that legally, you would have to pay a restocking fee for a product that has not left the factory yet. And, you could dispute through PayPal because you found out that the company was criminal and wanted to cancel before you had taken possession of the product. Regardless, what’s done is done; I would just say this, if you are not 100% legal you should not let her/him know anything about what you are doing. I have no doubt that when Cameron/Cammie gets busted, and it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when, he/she will use all of the information that has been gathered through the MJ community to cut a deal for a lesser sentence!!
Also, did you tell her that you wanted to back out of the deal because you had read this thread?
Outdoorsman
New Member
Honestly bro, I hope that you are wrong about those same chinese flea market LEDs being penetrators for a 1/10th the price...
I could believe it, but I truly hope there is some kind of reprogramming.
I did everything I could to not induce my intentions of cannabis cultivation, the most I said was something like (why does your spectrum not include UV, I heard it increases certain crystal production?) And here response was Yes, Uv does increase THC production, but UV lights are not cost affective per bulb compared to far red 660nm...
I have some information you may like Jeb, including what her True business name is. NOt hydro grow LED, but Hydro Grow LLC.
Try checking the Tri-state area for that business name!?(you were saying shes not on record or sum?)
I have her explaining the whole LED spectrum topic, I have her talking down competitiors and claiming her light to be the best in the world, I have her explaining the difference in 1W and 3W....
Ill post whats most interesting and you can let me know if you want more
Outdoorsman
New Member
As for where did I hear about it?
Well I came across some impressive grow videos on youtube while I was in the market for a light and I then looked at there website...
I looked at a couple other LED sites like AdvancedLED.com but I thought the HGL looked like the best bet on first glance, and the reviews on the standard 126W model were good.
I purchased the light and then it hit me to check out some forums and see whats up with this light... I was literally scared when I read a few of the stories about Cammie and immediately tried to get my money back, but was unable to do so AS PER HER POLICIES on the website...
Heres some emails from her...
Well I came across some impressive grow videos on youtube while I was in the market for a light and I then looked at there website...
I looked at a couple other LED sites like AdvancedLED.com but I thought the HGL looked like the best bet on first glance, and the reviews on the standard 126W model were good.
I purchased the light and then it hit me to check out some forums and see whats up with this light... I was literally scared when I read a few of the stories about Cammie and immediately tried to get my money back, but was unable to do so AS PER HER POLICIES on the website...
Heres some emails from her...
Outdoorsman
New Member
There is actually a lot of good information in here, I am not bashing Cammie as I have not tested the product yet, but she did a good job at answering all my questions.
Outdoorsman:Yes one more question, whats up with the competitor 11 wavelength units? Why doesn't your models have more wavelengths? Like UV? I read that UV promotes certain crystal production along with keeps away unwanted bugs..
Cammie: Companies who use 11 or 12 wavelengths in their light have done literally zero development on their spectrum. Instead they simply choose every color under the sun within the 400-700nm par range, without any regard as to the absorption efficiency of those wavelengths, that way they aren't "missing anything". This is called a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" LED Grow Light, as they give you far more wavelengths than any plant will use efficiently because they haven't taken the time to research photosynthesis. The same problem applies to HID (HPS) full spectrum lighting, where a vast majority of the light being created is wasted. This why LED's were originally developed for grow lights, as you could tailor your light to only the wavelengths plants require for photosynthesis, while getting rid of all the excess "filler" light that the plants never used. These LED companies with 11 or 12 wavelengths are no better than HPS in that most of the light they produce is not absorbed by the plants (612nm, anything in the 500-600nm range) 380nm, etc... Instead you waste power lighting up orange and yellow LED's that do nothing to help your yields.
In regards to UV, yes certain UV wavelengths will enhance THC production. These wavelengths are found at 285-315nm, and nowhere else. LED's that emit this range are currently VERY expensive, with 1W's costing as much as $90 each! It's for this reason that we do not use UV in our products, as it's not cost effective yet for our customers. Other companies are trying to bait people with the false assurance of "UV" in their lights, when in fact they aren't using a UV that effects THC at all, instead they are using 380-420nm, which is nowhere near the 300nm mark. The only effect 380-420nm has on your plants is a stress response that causes them to grow thicker leaves/stalks. In fact if too much UV is used, it will actually stunt your plants. Plants are just like us in that they can be burned by UV, so unless you're using the RIGHT UV (300nm), it's best not to use it at all. Instead we use high amounts of far-red 740nm which has a very similar effect on THC production. The difference between buds grown under our lights with 740nm and those without are staggering! So any light lacking in 740nm is going to lack in THC production as well. Sorry for the long-winded response. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Outdoorsman:
Well now I am just Jacked up to get going on this, I have seen pictures of the "hash tips" that leds can produce and I am very glad you cleared this up for me.
How would you feel about me sharing this conversation on a cannabis forum like --------.org?
I ask because there are thousands of people like me that want to hear this information.
Cammie:
I have no problems with you sharing the information I have exchanged with you via email, but know that if you put it on the forums you'll likely meet a lot of objections and ignorant assholes who flame your thread. I was and still am the only retail LED Grow Light company to go on the forums, provide information to people, answer questions, and prove beyond a doubt that our lights work, and work better than anything else on the market. In doing so I created a lot of enemies, as I didn't simply "take it" when people wanted to belittle or berate me or our products, I fought back and answered back with data and proof. Anyhow the information I've supplied is all good, just know that a lot of the ears you'll be preaching to are going to choose to go deaf. If you don't mention my name when posting the information, I bet a LOT more people would listen
But you are correct that there are thousand of people out there just like you who want and need to hear this sort of information, as all the other LED companies are trying to withold it from you.
I mean take Calyx LED, The Worlds Best LED Grow Lights who sells these Desert Hydro grow lights for example. They sell an "1800W" light for $2,000 on the premise that it uses "576 3W/3Chip Cree LED's", and "Produces 148,500 lumens". When you analyze what they're telling you however, you'll realize that ALL of it is bogus. For example go to Cree's website, or call them during business hours tomorrow and simply ask them if they make a 3W/3Chip LED. The answer will be a resounding "No". Then do the actual math on what they're telling you. 148,500 divided by 576 LED's = 257.81 lumens per LED. Now call any LED company worldwide and ask them if they have ANY 3W LED's capable of producing 258 lumens, and again the answer will be a resounding "No". In fact the highest output 3W LED's right now are only pushing about 220-240 lumens, and they are only available in BRIGHT white. The highest output 630nm 3W on the market is made by Luxeon, and it only produces about 110 lumens (we've tested it). The highest blue on the market puts out about 70 lumens at 3W... So why do all of these companies like Calyx LED and Desert Hydroponics, or all the rest of them feel the need to tell their potential customers completely BOGUS information? It's because they know they can't sell a light any other way than to lie to their customers about it's capabilities, the quality, etc... After all they're just another run of the mill "copy someone else's and re-design it" company, so they know they don't have anything special. We on the other hand have pioneered the spectrum and ratios that nearly every other company in the industry has now adopted. Everyone else looks to us when they want answers or to try and get some tip of how to emulate our product, but they're never able to duplicate our results. They're always checking up to see our latest information, or what changes we've made to our spectrum, and every time we make a change, so does the rest of the industry. So rest assured that you've come to the right place, and the first place to introduce a LED Grow Light that dominates HID. Our results have never been matched, meaning your hard earned money couldn't be spent on a better light
Outdoorsman:Yes one more question, whats up with the competitor 11 wavelength units? Why doesn't your models have more wavelengths? Like UV? I read that UV promotes certain crystal production along with keeps away unwanted bugs..
Cammie: Companies who use 11 or 12 wavelengths in their light have done literally zero development on their spectrum. Instead they simply choose every color under the sun within the 400-700nm par range, without any regard as to the absorption efficiency of those wavelengths, that way they aren't "missing anything". This is called a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" LED Grow Light, as they give you far more wavelengths than any plant will use efficiently because they haven't taken the time to research photosynthesis. The same problem applies to HID (HPS) full spectrum lighting, where a vast majority of the light being created is wasted. This why LED's were originally developed for grow lights, as you could tailor your light to only the wavelengths plants require for photosynthesis, while getting rid of all the excess "filler" light that the plants never used. These LED companies with 11 or 12 wavelengths are no better than HPS in that most of the light they produce is not absorbed by the plants (612nm, anything in the 500-600nm range) 380nm, etc... Instead you waste power lighting up orange and yellow LED's that do nothing to help your yields.
In regards to UV, yes certain UV wavelengths will enhance THC production. These wavelengths are found at 285-315nm, and nowhere else. LED's that emit this range are currently VERY expensive, with 1W's costing as much as $90 each! It's for this reason that we do not use UV in our products, as it's not cost effective yet for our customers. Other companies are trying to bait people with the false assurance of "UV" in their lights, when in fact they aren't using a UV that effects THC at all, instead they are using 380-420nm, which is nowhere near the 300nm mark. The only effect 380-420nm has on your plants is a stress response that causes them to grow thicker leaves/stalks. In fact if too much UV is used, it will actually stunt your plants. Plants are just like us in that they can be burned by UV, so unless you're using the RIGHT UV (300nm), it's best not to use it at all. Instead we use high amounts of far-red 740nm which has a very similar effect on THC production. The difference between buds grown under our lights with 740nm and those without are staggering! So any light lacking in 740nm is going to lack in THC production as well. Sorry for the long-winded response. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Outdoorsman:
Well now I am just Jacked up to get going on this, I have seen pictures of the "hash tips" that leds can produce and I am very glad you cleared this up for me.
How would you feel about me sharing this conversation on a cannabis forum like --------.org?
I ask because there are thousands of people like me that want to hear this information.
Cammie:
I have no problems with you sharing the information I have exchanged with you via email, but know that if you put it on the forums you'll likely meet a lot of objections and ignorant assholes who flame your thread. I was and still am the only retail LED Grow Light company to go on the forums, provide information to people, answer questions, and prove beyond a doubt that our lights work, and work better than anything else on the market. In doing so I created a lot of enemies, as I didn't simply "take it" when people wanted to belittle or berate me or our products, I fought back and answered back with data and proof. Anyhow the information I've supplied is all good, just know that a lot of the ears you'll be preaching to are going to choose to go deaf. If you don't mention my name when posting the information, I bet a LOT more people would listen
But you are correct that there are thousand of people out there just like you who want and need to hear this sort of information, as all the other LED companies are trying to withold it from you. I mean take Calyx LED, The Worlds Best LED Grow Lights who sells these Desert Hydro grow lights for example. They sell an "1800W" light for $2,000 on the premise that it uses "576 3W/3Chip Cree LED's", and "Produces 148,500 lumens". When you analyze what they're telling you however, you'll realize that ALL of it is bogus. For example go to Cree's website, or call them during business hours tomorrow and simply ask them if they make a 3W/3Chip LED. The answer will be a resounding "No". Then do the actual math on what they're telling you. 148,500 divided by 576 LED's = 257.81 lumens per LED. Now call any LED company worldwide and ask them if they have ANY 3W LED's capable of producing 258 lumens, and again the answer will be a resounding "No". In fact the highest output 3W LED's right now are only pushing about 220-240 lumens, and they are only available in BRIGHT white. The highest output 630nm 3W on the market is made by Luxeon, and it only produces about 110 lumens (we've tested it). The highest blue on the market puts out about 70 lumens at 3W... So why do all of these companies like Calyx LED and Desert Hydroponics, or all the rest of them feel the need to tell their potential customers completely BOGUS information? It's because they know they can't sell a light any other way than to lie to their customers about it's capabilities, the quality, etc... After all they're just another run of the mill "copy someone else's and re-design it" company, so they know they don't have anything special. We on the other hand have pioneered the spectrum and ratios that nearly every other company in the industry has now adopted. Everyone else looks to us when they want answers or to try and get some tip of how to emulate our product, but they're never able to duplicate our results. They're always checking up to see our latest information, or what changes we've made to our spectrum, and every time we make a change, so does the rest of the industry. So rest assured that you've come to the right place, and the first place to introduce a LED Grow Light that dominates HID. Our results have never been matched, meaning your hard earned money couldn't be spent on a better light
Bionic
New Member
- Thread starter
- #191
If bullshit were gold, Cammie/Cameron would be able to buy the earth!! If she ever partners up with Bill Clinton we are all done for! She is wasting her time scamming these lights, she could open a con artist school to teach her perfected trade and then she would truly be an “industry leader” at the top of her profession. I’m not sure why she keeps dabbling in this pond of small fish though, you can only scam a few thousand at a time. She is good enough to be in the “big con” and play a market where you can go for hundreds of thousands or even millions.
“I have no problems with you sharing the information I have exchanged with you via email, but know that if you put it on the forums you'll likely meet a lot of objections and ignorant assholes who flame your thread.”
When erroneous information or out right lies are posted, people are going to challenge it; that’s what she is calling flaming. The attitude is apparent; if you make an objection then you are an “ignorant asshole”.
“I was and still am the only retail LED Grow Light company to go on the forums, provide information to people, answer questions, and prove beyond a doubt that our lights work, and work better than anything else on the market.”
More lies; she was not and is not the only retailer on MJ forums and the HGL light was never proven to be the best on any forum. Some things were proven though, that she is rude and arrogant and when in power, banned anyone who challenged her. When she is not in power and can’t ban you, then she just calls LEO to do her dirty work!
Silence the opposition by any means available and then you can rule unchallenged!
“If you don't mention my name when posting the information, I bet a LOT more people would listen”
That’s strange, if you are an industry leader, with a proven track record of having the best light in the business because of your years of R&D with your top notch, in house, team of scientists, shouldn’t the name be well respected and the information gladly received by all??
“But you are correct that there are thousand of people out there just like you who want and need to hear this sort of information, as all the other LED companies are trying to withold it from you.”
Again, shouldn’t her name be well respected and well received as the hero of the community because she gives us little people the information that those inferior LED companies are trying to hide from us?
“So why do all of these companies like Calyx LED and Desert Hydroponics, or all the rest of them feel the need to tell their potential customers completely BOGUS information? It's because they know they can't sell a light any other way than to lie to their customers about it's capabilities, the quality, etc... After all they're just another run of the mill "copy someone else's and re-design it" company, so they know they don't have anything special. We on the other hand have pioneered the spectrum and ratios that nearly every other company in the industry has now adopted. Everyone else looks to us when they want answers or to try and get some tip of how to emulate our product, but they're never able to duplicate our results. They're always checking up to see our latest information, or what changes we've made to our spectrum, and every time we make a change, so does the rest of the industry.”
[I had to take a minute and go puke after I read this]
Wow!!! The LED industry sets their watch by a transient who moves from apt to apt and state to state to avoid LEO, lawyers, process servers, creditors, collectors, large angry men who want someone’s money back and who knows who else. I wonder how big of a box it takes to pack the R&D team and all of the lab equipment in each time she moves? There is an up-side to the moving though, it keeps the other LED companies from being able to spy on her and steal her secrets. They just have to wait until she releases a new light and buy one so that they can copy her technology!
This is without a doubt the most hedonistic sociopath with delusions of grandeur that I have ever crossed paths with! This guy is going to make some psychoanalyst dream come true one day. He will be studied and new chapters will be written!
It’s truly sad to see that this guy is still in operation and people are still being taken and a snitch is still gathering information!!!
“I have no problems with you sharing the information I have exchanged with you via email, but know that if you put it on the forums you'll likely meet a lot of objections and ignorant assholes who flame your thread.”
When erroneous information or out right lies are posted, people are going to challenge it; that’s what she is calling flaming. The attitude is apparent; if you make an objection then you are an “ignorant asshole”.
“I was and still am the only retail LED Grow Light company to go on the forums, provide information to people, answer questions, and prove beyond a doubt that our lights work, and work better than anything else on the market.”
More lies; she was not and is not the only retailer on MJ forums and the HGL light was never proven to be the best on any forum. Some things were proven though, that she is rude and arrogant and when in power, banned anyone who challenged her. When she is not in power and can’t ban you, then she just calls LEO to do her dirty work!
Silence the opposition by any means available and then you can rule unchallenged!
“If you don't mention my name when posting the information, I bet a LOT more people would listen”
That’s strange, if you are an industry leader, with a proven track record of having the best light in the business because of your years of R&D with your top notch, in house, team of scientists, shouldn’t the name be well respected and the information gladly received by all??
“But you are correct that there are thousand of people out there just like you who want and need to hear this sort of information, as all the other LED companies are trying to withold it from you.”
Again, shouldn’t her name be well respected and well received as the hero of the community because she gives us little people the information that those inferior LED companies are trying to hide from us?
“So why do all of these companies like Calyx LED and Desert Hydroponics, or all the rest of them feel the need to tell their potential customers completely BOGUS information? It's because they know they can't sell a light any other way than to lie to their customers about it's capabilities, the quality, etc... After all they're just another run of the mill "copy someone else's and re-design it" company, so they know they don't have anything special. We on the other hand have pioneered the spectrum and ratios that nearly every other company in the industry has now adopted. Everyone else looks to us when they want answers or to try and get some tip of how to emulate our product, but they're never able to duplicate our results. They're always checking up to see our latest information, or what changes we've made to our spectrum, and every time we make a change, so does the rest of the industry.”
[I had to take a minute and go puke after I read this]
Wow!!! The LED industry sets their watch by a transient who moves from apt to apt and state to state to avoid LEO, lawyers, process servers, creditors, collectors, large angry men who want someone’s money back and who knows who else. I wonder how big of a box it takes to pack the R&D team and all of the lab equipment in each time she moves? There is an up-side to the moving though, it keeps the other LED companies from being able to spy on her and steal her secrets. They just have to wait until she releases a new light and buy one so that they can copy her technology!
This is without a doubt the most hedonistic sociopath with delusions of grandeur that I have ever crossed paths with! This guy is going to make some psychoanalyst dream come true one day. He will be studied and new chapters will be written!
It’s truly sad to see that this guy is still in operation and people are still being taken and a snitch is still gathering information!!!
My thoughts exactly! What a clown. Just by the statement about "ignorant assholes" as a business owner makes you look like a child with a chip on your shoulder. I can't believe this honestly, but I look every few hours to see the thread and what new is being said. I'm just amazed that someone like that keeps moving on. I think the title is Industry Cheater rather than Leader. I hope karma bites this fool in the wallet and he sees a different side of life other than success from the monetary gain of new victims provided with bad products and horrible business practices. Even if the lights do work and are the "Industry Leader", you don't ever want to promote that business or practices from what I have read here. Keep up the new posts, I enjoy reading up on it and I'm just waiting for karma to fight back at some point........Hopefully sooner than later..
- Thread starter
- #193
Outdoorsman wrote:
“There is actually a lot of good information in here”
No Outdoorsman, there is not; but that’s why the scam works so well. Those of us that do not know and are trying to learn are taken in by her impressive babble. I’m not trying to be disrespectful or accuse you of anything, but, did you verify any of the information with any LED knowledgeable sources, or did you just declare it “good information”? That’s why Cammie is an “expert”, she declares it and people just accept it and pass it on! If you don’t accept it, you are an “ignorant asshole” and your thoughts are not valid!
And you said:
“but she did a good job at answering all my questions.”
It is easy to answer questions when you can make up any answer that you want. The hard part is selling it to someone. And don’t be fooled, Cameron is a top class salesman! You will have to look hard to find a slicker snake oil peddler than him, he is very confident in his abilities and he has much practice at his trade.
And besides, I think that Cameron possesses the powers of the Hypno-Toad!!!
“There is actually a lot of good information in here”
No Outdoorsman, there is not; but that’s why the scam works so well. Those of us that do not know and are trying to learn are taken in by her impressive babble. I’m not trying to be disrespectful or accuse you of anything, but, did you verify any of the information with any LED knowledgeable sources, or did you just declare it “good information”? That’s why Cammie is an “expert”, she declares it and people just accept it and pass it on! If you don’t accept it, you are an “ignorant asshole” and your thoughts are not valid!
And you said:
“but she did a good job at answering all my questions.”
It is easy to answer questions when you can make up any answer that you want. The hard part is selling it to someone. And don’t be fooled, Cameron is a top class salesman! You will have to look hard to find a slicker snake oil peddler than him, he is very confident in his abilities and he has much practice at his trade.
And besides, I think that Cameron possesses the powers of the Hypno-Toad!!!
Outdoorsman
New Member
Please correct any misinformation she provided to me in terms of How LEDs work, I realize I only posted a couple emails, as I was trying to answer some of your questions and share a juicy email at the same time. If you consider a sales pitch information than we are on two different pages. All of that info on wavelengths and nanometers is not easy to come by on cannabis forums, so if she is Mis-guiding a customer as to how LEDs work than please correct it for my sake.
As not backed up in earlier posts, like I said, she answered all of my questions well up to now. I have recnetly started asking her about the cheap chinese models being penetrators and why her units contain no Heat Sink, the bigger questions will be answered if she keeps answering my questions(I just watched the movie Salt and I gotta say I feel like a russian spy working in the CIA, consider me on both peoples defense until some questions get answered
Constructive criticism happily accepted.Also I would like to say I totally disapprove of her business practices and the Nasty things she has done because of her immature, self centered attitude, Zeb I really wish that you had created an HGL warning site that came up upon google search(this forums good but I only found it after someone linked it to me and i subscribed to the site), you all may think Im dumb for buying that so intently but thats just how I am if I like it Ill buy it and there really was no competition to consider when googling High output LEDs or Advanced LEDs... I have been babbling too long but out of all of this all I want is a few successful grows and some questions to get answered. Answered questions will provide better sense of awareness to anyone considering a penetrator..
If mine blows out after 4 months and I find out these are Cheap piles of shit I am 100% on your side in stopping this plague of ill-guided confusion.
Heres my first emails to her...
Outdoorsman
New Member
Hello I've been looking into the best light for my situation and found your LEDs to sound very appealing. I do however have some questions in regards to the PRO series, SHO 3w LEDs. On your website I noticed all the information on how 1w leds are the best and most efficient. Im wondering if the PRO series lights put off a higher amount of radiant heat and how much more? Please shed some more information on your PRO series and how its less efficient 3w are tuned to be Almost as efficient. I ask because your website suggests that 1W are the best way to go.
I plan on having a small scale stealth grow, going for maximum production and quality. Whilst keeping efficiency and heat down
My dimensions are 47"x 20"x 72"
My plan was to put a 1x 126W penetrator or penetrator Pro, and then buy another once I have funds
I'm thinking that with only 1 penetrator I wont have the coverage I want/need for full coverage.
(I plan to upscale to 4'x4' in the relative future)
Please provide as many thoughts/ comments/ advice/ information as possible for comparing penetrator to penetrator PRO.
Also do you have any grow comparisons using the PRO series?
Thank you for your time, I look forward to doing business soon
Cammie:
Dear outdoorsman*,
In terms of efficiency, there is nothing that currently surpasses a 1W LED. By efficiency we're talking about how many lumens the LED creates in relation to the current (mA) being supplied to it. We are creating a new website right now that will go further into depth on 1W, 3W, etc..., but right now I'll give you the basics. 1W and 3W are only a rating provided by LED companies, it does not distinguish how much actual power is being consumed by the LED. For example a 1W operates at 350mA, yet they classify a 3W at 700mA (double the amperage, triple the watts). A red 3W LED however will only consume about 2.2W of energy at 700mA. Likewise a 3W white would consume maybe 3.0-3.4W So we're no longer looking at LED's based on how they are rated, we're basing them on how much current they draw compared to their light output. If you go to the Product Development History page on our site and scroll to the bottom, you'll see a chart that reflects recent testing we performed on LED's while in China. We tested 1W's, 2W-2Chip, 3W-3Chip, and 3W LED's to see which were the most efficient. The 1W's of course came in the highest, and right behind them were the 3W's. As you increase amperage to a 3W however, their efficiency does decrease, so we are not running them at their max (700mA) for our PRO series. Instead the LED's are driven at 550mA where they produce 37% more light vs our 1W models at approximately 40-42% higher power consumption, and only 25% additional cost. When you look at the chart you'll see the output of each LED per 100mA of current, and at 550mA the 3W LED's are only about 5% less efficient than our 1W models. So again in terms of efficiency, NOTHING beats a 1W which is why we've always used them.
There has also been high demand from customers to produce a higher powered light. At first we tested Luxeon, Cree, Osram, Edison, and several other companies to see if we could create substantially more light using better quality LED's, but we quickly found out that 5%-10% better light output was not worth double the cost. That's when we began testing higher wattage LED's to see if they would be useful. Ultimately we chose the 3W LED because it is more efficient than 2W or 3W multi-chip LED's, and because the 3W having only 1 diode has far more intensity than a 3W composed of 3 diodes at 1/3 brightness. While the PRO model is about 5% less efficient in terms of energy consumed per lumen emitted, it packs a LOT more intensity than our 1W models which means higher levels of penetration. Any time you increase the level of penetration, the rate of photosynthesis will also increase as more light is being delivered within the chloroplasts of the plant. So in the end the additional penetration negates the 5% loss in efficiency. The panels run about 5-10 degrees hotter with the 3W LED's than they did with our 1W's, meaning they operate up to 105 degrees F. Our standard models are now down to 85-95 degrees F. At 105 degrees the light degradation is very little, as you need to be above 120 degrees before red LED's really start declining in output.
Anyhow for an area that is 47" x 20" a single 126W PRO will not be enough as you had thought. 2x126W PRO's would be perfect for that area however, so getting 1 now and adding another later is a great idea. With a single 126W PRO you could cover a 36" x 20" with the light 12" above your plants. Since it is a PRO model, using it at 12" will still give you similar intensity levels to our 1W's at 6". Using the light higher also gives you more coverage. With a single 126W PRO the yield potential should be anywhere from 150-250g for a first timer. Anyhow we don't have any comparison videos yet for the PRO vs our Standard models, but we will have one or two by the new year. They won't be grow videos, they'll just show the intensity of our new PRO series next to our standard, while highlighting the differences. If you want to see grow videos for our product, or comparisons with other LED's or HID, please visit youtube: LED Grow Videos
If you have any other questions, please let me know. If you're ready to go ahead and place your order, please give me a call any time 11am-6pm Tuesday through Saturday and I'll be more than happy to process it for you.
*(This was from my perspective of "who better to talk to than the business", thinking it was a reputable one...consider me a new generation old school)
I plan on having a small scale stealth grow, going for maximum production and quality. Whilst keeping efficiency and heat down
My dimensions are 47"x 20"x 72"
My plan was to put a 1x 126W penetrator or penetrator Pro, and then buy another once I have funds
I'm thinking that with only 1 penetrator I wont have the coverage I want/need for full coverage.
(I plan to upscale to 4'x4' in the relative future)
Please provide as many thoughts/ comments/ advice/ information as possible for comparing penetrator to penetrator PRO.
Also do you have any grow comparisons using the PRO series?
Thank you for your time, I look forward to doing business soon
Cammie:
Dear outdoorsman*,
In terms of efficiency, there is nothing that currently surpasses a 1W LED. By efficiency we're talking about how many lumens the LED creates in relation to the current (mA) being supplied to it. We are creating a new website right now that will go further into depth on 1W, 3W, etc..., but right now I'll give you the basics. 1W and 3W are only a rating provided by LED companies, it does not distinguish how much actual power is being consumed by the LED. For example a 1W operates at 350mA, yet they classify a 3W at 700mA (double the amperage, triple the watts). A red 3W LED however will only consume about 2.2W of energy at 700mA. Likewise a 3W white would consume maybe 3.0-3.4W So we're no longer looking at LED's based on how they are rated, we're basing them on how much current they draw compared to their light output. If you go to the Product Development History page on our site and scroll to the bottom, you'll see a chart that reflects recent testing we performed on LED's while in China. We tested 1W's, 2W-2Chip, 3W-3Chip, and 3W LED's to see which were the most efficient. The 1W's of course came in the highest, and right behind them were the 3W's. As you increase amperage to a 3W however, their efficiency does decrease, so we are not running them at their max (700mA) for our PRO series. Instead the LED's are driven at 550mA where they produce 37% more light vs our 1W models at approximately 40-42% higher power consumption, and only 25% additional cost. When you look at the chart you'll see the output of each LED per 100mA of current, and at 550mA the 3W LED's are only about 5% less efficient than our 1W models. So again in terms of efficiency, NOTHING beats a 1W which is why we've always used them.
There has also been high demand from customers to produce a higher powered light. At first we tested Luxeon, Cree, Osram, Edison, and several other companies to see if we could create substantially more light using better quality LED's, but we quickly found out that 5%-10% better light output was not worth double the cost. That's when we began testing higher wattage LED's to see if they would be useful. Ultimately we chose the 3W LED because it is more efficient than 2W or 3W multi-chip LED's, and because the 3W having only 1 diode has far more intensity than a 3W composed of 3 diodes at 1/3 brightness. While the PRO model is about 5% less efficient in terms of energy consumed per lumen emitted, it packs a LOT more intensity than our 1W models which means higher levels of penetration. Any time you increase the level of penetration, the rate of photosynthesis will also increase as more light is being delivered within the chloroplasts of the plant. So in the end the additional penetration negates the 5% loss in efficiency. The panels run about 5-10 degrees hotter with the 3W LED's than they did with our 1W's, meaning they operate up to 105 degrees F. Our standard models are now down to 85-95 degrees F. At 105 degrees the light degradation is very little, as you need to be above 120 degrees before red LED's really start declining in output.
Anyhow for an area that is 47" x 20" a single 126W PRO will not be enough as you had thought. 2x126W PRO's would be perfect for that area however, so getting 1 now and adding another later is a great idea. With a single 126W PRO you could cover a 36" x 20" with the light 12" above your plants. Since it is a PRO model, using it at 12" will still give you similar intensity levels to our 1W's at 6". Using the light higher also gives you more coverage. With a single 126W PRO the yield potential should be anywhere from 150-250g for a first timer. Anyhow we don't have any comparison videos yet for the PRO vs our Standard models, but we will have one or two by the new year. They won't be grow videos, they'll just show the intensity of our new PRO series next to our standard, while highlighting the differences. If you want to see grow videos for our product, or comparisons with other LED's or HID, please visit youtube: LED Grow Videos
If you have any other questions, please let me know. If you're ready to go ahead and place your order, please give me a call any time 11am-6pm Tuesday through Saturday and I'll be more than happy to process it for you.
*(This was from my perspective of "who better to talk to than the business", thinking it was a reputable one...consider me a new generation old school)
- Thread starter
- #196
Outdoorsman,
If I gave you the impression that I am an LED expert, please forgive me, I am not. I am just a guy that got burned by a criminal con artist selling cheap crap that snitches on their customers. The difference is that I am not one of those people that just takes it and does nothing. I have fought her/him and won and have been reimbursed for my loses and I am out nothing; but, I have gained some experience and I am trying to pass it along so that others will not be scammed!
Wavelengths, nanometers, wattages, color ratio, and such have no established standard that I have been able to determine. Everyone has a different opinion and the specs vary from light manufacturer to light manufacturer and each one claims that his personal formula is the best one. Mike at GLH does not publish his wavelength info as he considers it a trade secret and what makes his light superior. One has to search for LED technical articles on the internet away from MJ forums and digest the info until they are comfortable. Then you go to the forums, listen to everybody’s pitch, apply what you have already learned and take your best shot at an educated guess as to who’s light is best. At least that’s what I did.
The problem is that all of the info supplied by the HGL web site (Cammie) was bogus. All of the information posted on the web site is lies and everything that comes out of her/his mouth is a lie. Most every regular on MJ forums now knows that (many knew even before this thread was started) and the market has dried up here; that’s why she/he has moved to YouTube. I know nothing of YouTube and have not even been there, but someone needs to close that market to HGL also!
It’s funny that HGL now is offering a new PRO series; I went to the Chinese site today and they have released their new most powerful LED yet! The 300w lights cost $300.00 - 350.00 depending on quantity purchased and the 120w lights were $116.00 - 129.00. About $1.00 per watt when you cut out the middle man!!
Outdoorsman, I get the impression that you have not read this thread but have only jumped in on the recent posts. You say that you wish that it had been on Google… it was and is on Google and I made posts about that earlier in the thread because I was very happy about it. I googled LEDs a few minutes ago and the info is still there. Same thing if you google Cammie McKenzie, LED Girl or several other tags.
I get the impression that you believe, or want to believe the things that Cammie is telling you in her e-mails, maybe it’s because you have purchased a light and want to feel good about your purchase I don’t know. That’s another reason why I feel that you have not read the whole thread. After digesting all of the info in this thread there should be no doubt that there is no good in this person, at least in the sense of honorable business practices. Lies and deceit are the tools of this person’s existence and he has not turned over a new leaf in dealing with you!
If you have received your light and it turns on, be happy; just do not make Cameron angry! The fact that he has spoken to you about yield in grams tells me that he knows that you will be growing MJ. You have become another deposit in his bank account being saved for a get out of jail free card if he needs it or whatever! You may think that I am being extreme, but I promise you, I would have been arrested and taken to jail in early October if I did not have a government permission slip to grow MJ because she sent the Sheriff’s Department right to my door!!!
If I gave you the impression that I am an LED expert, please forgive me, I am not. I am just a guy that got burned by a criminal con artist selling cheap crap that snitches on their customers. The difference is that I am not one of those people that just takes it and does nothing. I have fought her/him and won and have been reimbursed for my loses and I am out nothing; but, I have gained some experience and I am trying to pass it along so that others will not be scammed!
Wavelengths, nanometers, wattages, color ratio, and such have no established standard that I have been able to determine. Everyone has a different opinion and the specs vary from light manufacturer to light manufacturer and each one claims that his personal formula is the best one. Mike at GLH does not publish his wavelength info as he considers it a trade secret and what makes his light superior. One has to search for LED technical articles on the internet away from MJ forums and digest the info until they are comfortable. Then you go to the forums, listen to everybody’s pitch, apply what you have already learned and take your best shot at an educated guess as to who’s light is best. At least that’s what I did.
The problem is that all of the info supplied by the HGL web site (Cammie) was bogus. All of the information posted on the web site is lies and everything that comes out of her/his mouth is a lie. Most every regular on MJ forums now knows that (many knew even before this thread was started) and the market has dried up here; that’s why she/he has moved to YouTube. I know nothing of YouTube and have not even been there, but someone needs to close that market to HGL also!
It’s funny that HGL now is offering a new PRO series; I went to the Chinese site today and they have released their new most powerful LED yet! The 300w lights cost $300.00 - 350.00 depending on quantity purchased and the 120w lights were $116.00 - 129.00. About $1.00 per watt when you cut out the middle man!!
Outdoorsman, I get the impression that you have not read this thread but have only jumped in on the recent posts. You say that you wish that it had been on Google… it was and is on Google and I made posts about that earlier in the thread because I was very happy about it. I googled LEDs a few minutes ago and the info is still there. Same thing if you google Cammie McKenzie, LED Girl or several other tags.
I get the impression that you believe, or want to believe the things that Cammie is telling you in her e-mails, maybe it’s because you have purchased a light and want to feel good about your purchase I don’t know. That’s another reason why I feel that you have not read the whole thread. After digesting all of the info in this thread there should be no doubt that there is no good in this person, at least in the sense of honorable business practices. Lies and deceit are the tools of this person’s existence and he has not turned over a new leaf in dealing with you!
If you have received your light and it turns on, be happy; just do not make Cameron angry! The fact that he has spoken to you about yield in grams tells me that he knows that you will be growing MJ. You have become another deposit in his bank account being saved for a get out of jail free card if he needs it or whatever! You may think that I am being extreme, but I promise you, I would have been arrested and taken to jail in early October if I did not have a government permission slip to grow MJ because she sent the Sheriff’s Department right to my door!!!
Outdoorsman
New Member
1st, I have said no where that I intend to grow marijuana to her, she put the words in my mouth, so consider me safe...
2nd everyones google searches are different depending on popular sites, I had never been on 420 so it was 2-3 pages back...
3rd you are correct that I skimped the middle of this thread, and after further research I must say... Ive been scammed, plain and simple. I have no doubt that it will grow me some danks, but everyone will see what the actual numbers are.
Thank you Jeb for noticing my ill-informed judgments, you have opened my eyes
I had no idea why everyone was saying he/she but after reading that magazine article???
LMFAO at how incredibly fucked up this persons situation is.... It would be sad if IT wasnt stealing from people legally.
After hearing about the whole engine scams its apparent this person is very experienced in what IT does...
I intend to help out the best I can in ending this person, and am open to any sort of website creation/public awareness page......*idea* compile all of the information is this thread and post the video on youtube. If I come across the personal experience or time to do so I know I will...
Hahaha so many jokes to crack, too off topic to do so....
Lets keep this thread going as long as she be in business, Ill do my job in posting links.
2nd everyones google searches are different depending on popular sites, I had never been on 420 so it was 2-3 pages back...
3rd you are correct that I skimped the middle of this thread, and after further research I must say... Ive been scammed, plain and simple. I have no doubt that it will grow me some danks, but everyone will see what the actual numbers are.
Thank you Jeb for noticing my ill-informed judgments, you have opened my eyes
I had no idea why everyone was saying he/she but after reading that magazine article???
LMFAO at how incredibly fucked up this persons situation is.... It would be sad if IT wasnt stealing from people legally.After hearing about the whole engine scams its apparent this person is very experienced in what IT does...
I intend to help out the best I can in ending this person, and am open to any sort of website creation/public awareness page......*idea* compile all of the information is this thread and post the video on youtube. If I come across the personal experience or time to do so I know I will...
Hahaha so many jokes to crack, too off topic to do so....
Lets keep this thread going as long as she be in business, Ill do my job in posting links.
This Cammie McKenzie has so many alias' and victims. After Googling the name, I have learned so much more and cannot believe this person is still not in jail. Over 5 names, 2 genders and hundreds of victims out of thousands of dollars from numerous businesses with one thing in common...This worthless flesh of a human......I'm floored at this point and cannot see an end to this....This human will be on the F.B.I.'s most wanted at some point(may already be) and I will love the day justice is served. Hey, I'm not even out any money and I'm upset so I totally feel for all of the victims....This forum will just keep growing til "she/him/it" is in jail for fraud among other charges I'm sure...
The staff of 420 Magazine wishes to advise its members and readers that we are again having trouble with Cammie McKenzie (formerly of Hydro-Grow LED and currently believed associated with Magnum LED)
Cammie and/or her associates are again posting falsehoods and innuendo around the net and while our preference is to handle these issues in private we will defend ourselves in public when necessary.
1) 420 Magazine, its owner(s), and staff are not anti-transgendered and honestly don't care about anyone's straight or LGBT status. The fact that some of us are being accused of bigotry toward the LGBT community is nothing more than a smear job without foundation, developed to ruin our reputation. Cammie was once a sponsor in good standing here, and this was reportedly during a very personal period in her life, where personal rumors and attacks were rampant. I personally scrubbed the site on more than one occasion to moderate for this injustice. We've had many LGBT people on our staff for years whom we love dearly; this is just pure nonsense.
2) The lights Cammie sold were of high quality. This was empirically true as evidenced by the awesome demonstration & competition thread put together by my old friend (Setting Sun). If you haven't seen this competition (which Cammie won), it's worth a read. Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED
3) Cammie was banned and her Sponsorship terminated because she wouldn't stop disrupting the forum, arguing our policies in public, viscously attacked members, and in at least one instance threatened to call the Sheriff on a grower in an illegal state, over a disagreement about a returned good, unless he sent her $600. Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware) Hydro-Grow LED. Any sponsor that threatens and/or attempts to blackmail members, doesn't practice fair trade, or otherwise acts disreputably is banned as a sponsor.
4) I personally spent hundreds of hours (not an exaggeration) scrubbing the site of problems, dealing with advisories to members that resulted from her abrasive nature, and working with Cammie to trying to convince her to follow our rules. The ultimate ban and sponsorship termination only came after repeated warnings and our inability to affect a change in behavior. There was quite a bit of illogic in the discussions.
5) Some of her accusations are so far out there that I hesitate to even bother refuting them. For example no one from 420 Magazine ever said she abandoned her children or that she is running from the FBI.
420 Magazine, and I personally, wish Cammie the best of success in life and business but we would greatly appreciate it if she would just leave us alone. We simply do not want her name or her company's name being posted on our website anymore, because it always results in more drama and negative energy to clean up.
We've posted this message for the personal information of our members and we respectfully request that it not be reposted elsewhere or discussed further on our boards.
Cammie and/or her associates are again posting falsehoods and innuendo around the net and while our preference is to handle these issues in private we will defend ourselves in public when necessary.
1) 420 Magazine, its owner(s), and staff are not anti-transgendered and honestly don't care about anyone's straight or LGBT status. The fact that some of us are being accused of bigotry toward the LGBT community is nothing more than a smear job without foundation, developed to ruin our reputation. Cammie was once a sponsor in good standing here, and this was reportedly during a very personal period in her life, where personal rumors and attacks were rampant. I personally scrubbed the site on more than one occasion to moderate for this injustice. We've had many LGBT people on our staff for years whom we love dearly; this is just pure nonsense.
2) The lights Cammie sold were of high quality. This was empirically true as evidenced by the awesome demonstration & competition thread put together by my old friend (Setting Sun). If you haven't seen this competition (which Cammie won), it's worth a read. Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED
3) Cammie was banned and her Sponsorship terminated because she wouldn't stop disrupting the forum, arguing our policies in public, viscously attacked members, and in at least one instance threatened to call the Sheriff on a grower in an illegal state, over a disagreement about a returned good, unless he sent her $600. Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware) Hydro-Grow LED. Any sponsor that threatens and/or attempts to blackmail members, doesn't practice fair trade, or otherwise acts disreputably is banned as a sponsor.
4) I personally spent hundreds of hours (not an exaggeration) scrubbing the site of problems, dealing with advisories to members that resulted from her abrasive nature, and working with Cammie to trying to convince her to follow our rules. The ultimate ban and sponsorship termination only came after repeated warnings and our inability to affect a change in behavior. There was quite a bit of illogic in the discussions.
5) Some of her accusations are so far out there that I hesitate to even bother refuting them. For example no one from 420 Magazine ever said she abandoned her children or that she is running from the FBI.
420 Magazine, and I personally, wish Cammie the best of success in life and business but we would greatly appreciate it if she would just leave us alone. We simply do not want her name or her company's name being posted on our website anymore, because it always results in more drama and negative energy to clean up.
We've posted this message for the personal information of our members and we respectfully request that it not be reposted elsewhere or discussed further on our boards.