Cattle Panel Hoop House Is Going Up!

[Morda Grown]

Things are kinda on hold as it has been way to hot to work in the sun here. I had a triple bypass last Nov and get over heated fast so, I figure better to be safe than sorry. I'm at the point where the ends need framed in and that is it till I get the plastic up. I have plenty of summer left to get things done before fall. I had a talk with the neighbor who owns a construction company. He is going to look around his shop and see if he has any heat solutions for me. I'm wanting to go solar but, propane would be good. Electric is just way too expensive for our budget so that is a no go. I have looked into other ways to help heat it and may use a combo of sources. It would be awesome to get to use this year round. One nice thing about winter growing, few to no bugs. Winter would be a good time to try some auto flowers as well. I would just need to add some lighting and that would also help heat the space up a bit too.

Edit: Also I'm looking into irrigation for the grow, What do you think of this?

 

[Azimuth]

Things are kinda on hold as it has been way to hot to work in the sun here. I had a triple bypass last Nov and get over heated fast so, I figure better to be safe than sorry. I'm at the point where the ends need framed in and that is it till I get the plastic up. I have plenty of summer left to get things done before fall. I had a talk with the neighbor who owns a construction company. He is going to look around his shop and see if he has any heat solutions for me. I'm wanting to go solar but, propane would be good. Electric is just way too expensive for our budget so that is a no go. I have looked into other ways to help heat it and may use a combo of sources. It would be awesome to get to use this year round. One nice thing about winter growing, few to no bugs. Winter would be a good time to try some auto flowers as well. I would just need to add some lighting and that would also help heat the space up a bit too.

Edit: Also I'm looking into irrigation for the grow, What do you think of this?

You could look at building a rocket stove for your heat, which is a self built wood stove which heats a thermal mass, in your case maybe a 6" pipe buried in your greenhouse soil. They're extremely efficient since most of the heat is not wasted up the chimney like with a traditional wood stove.

They are very popular in greenhouses.

Also think about some thermal mass to help even out the temperature swings. A bunch of 50gal barrels filled with water seem to work well. They help even in the heat of summer by absorbing some of the heat of day and releasing it at night.

 

[Morda Grown]

You could look at building a rocket stove for your heat, which is a self built wood stove which heats a thermal mass, in your case maybe a 6" pipe buried in your greenhouse soil. They're extremely efficient since most of the heat is not wasted up the chimney like with a traditional wood stove.

They are very popular in greenhouses.

Also think about some thermal mass to help even out the temperature swings. A bunch of 50gal barrels filled with water seem to work well. They help even in the heat of summer by absorbing some of the heat of day and releasing it at night.

I have thought about wood heat, my fear is having an unattended fire. If you look at the photos above, the melt you see on the side of the garage. That is from a pit fire that jumped my line in a matter of seconds when I went in the garage to get something. Every since then I never leave a fire unattended. Secondly, I would have to store and have dry wood, feed the stove hourly (Depending on size)... There is also my health, with all the kids moved out and gone just more than I want to bother with.

I'm looking into the barrels and also composting to help heat it. Actually combo of a few. Compost can generate a lot of heat and could potently do the job alone. I'm thinking combo of barrels and compost with a propane or solar backup for very cold nights may just be the ticket. We have a propane supplier in the area that fills 20lb bottles for $7 every Wed. I have a small propane heater that can warm a trailer that is almost the same size as that hoop house. Granted the trailer it was in was insulated. I was using it to heat an area in that garage. It would go through 3 20lb bottles in 7 days constantly running. So, that is about $21 a week and $84 a month. If I were to do the barrels and compost with the propane as back up. I'm sure I could cut that cost.

Solar would be the cost of the panel and battery to run fans. There are plans all over the internet on how to build collectors, just not sure how well they will work on days...weeks of heavy cloud cover we get in the winter months. The only tests I see them do are on clear sunny days in the fall or spring.

 

[greenjeans]

Looks good Morda!!

 

[Azimuth]

I have thought about wood heat, my fear is having an unattended fire. If you look at the photos above, the melt you see on the side of the garage. That is from a pit fire that jumped my line in a matter of seconds when I went in the garage to get something. Every since then I never leave a fire unattended. Secondly, I would have to store and have dry wood, feed the stove hourly (Depending on size)... There is also my health, with all the kids moved out and gone just more than I want to bother with.

I'm looking into the barrels and also composting to help heat it. Actually combo of a few. Compost can generate a lot of heat and could potently do the job alone. I'm thinking combo of barrels and compost with a propane or solar backup for very cold nights may just be the ticket. We have a propane supplier in the area that fills 20lb bottles for $7 every Wed. I have a small propane heater that can warm a trailer that is almost the same size as that hoop house. Granted the trailer it was in was insulated. I was using it to heat an area in that garage. It would go through 3 20lb bottles in 7 days constantly running. So, that is about $21 a week and $84 a month. If I were to do the barrels and compost with the propane as back up. I'm sure I could cut that cost.

Solar would be the cost of the panel and battery to run fans. There are plans all over the internet on how to build collectors, just not sure how well they will work on days...weeks of heavy cloud cover we get in the winter months. The only tests I see them do are on clear sunny days in the fall or spring.

Here's a video I saw a few years ago and had forgotten about. Seems like this guy has first hand knowledge of your compost vs. rocket stove thoughts. Think you might be on to something...

 

[Morda Grown]

Yes that is exactly my point. I have seen where people just buiid a compost area inside the green house and let it do it's thing. That is all free heat. I have a lot of wooded land here and leafs are never at a shortage. That was a good video to quickly show the concept.

 

[Azimuth]

Yes that is exactly my point. I have seen where people just buiid a compost area inside the green house and let it do it's thing. That is all free heat. I have a lot of wooded land here and leafs are never at a shortage. That was a good video to quickly show the concept.

Free heat PLUS a bit of CO2 for the plants! Win/win.

 

[greenjeans]

That was very interesting - I have tons of leaves in the yard area and even go rake them up in the bush - may have to try some new configurations!!! Thanx!!!

 

[Morda Grown]

I got most for the framing done today. Been thinking about my upper widows and the ground section. The upper windows I'm debating between square or triangular to fit the hole.

While I was pondering this I had an Idea... Instead of rolling the full length of the plastic at the bottom, Make Doors!
So, I'm going to make frames for window doors at the bottom. Plastic on the door and screen on the inside. There will 5 door windows per side. This will allow me to regulate the air flow at the bottom. Cold day open a couple, hot days open all or just a few.

What do you all think?

 

[greenjeans]

Just off the top of my head - you don't need "windows" right to the ground - not sure where you are but on a sunny day it will get too hot - I block off the bottom 4' of the south wall to stop the hot afternoon sun. I would try to set things up to allow for as much ventilation as possible. Just my thoughts - I only use my greenhouse now early and late in the season - it was just too hard to keep it cool enough. On hot days around here, just North of Lake Simcoe, two twenty inch fans in either end and all the windows and sliding doors open wasn't enough. But I will say, the last couple of days have been real crappy and cold so having the option of moving a few of the gals back inside has been a blessing!!!
Your build is coming along nicely and you will not regret spending the time.

 

[Morda Grown]

Just off the top of my head - you don't need "windows" right to the ground - not sure where you are but on a sunny day it will get too hot - I block off the bottom 4' of the south wall to stop the hot afternoon sun. I would try to set things up to allow for as much ventilation as possible. Just my thoughts - I only use my greenhouse now early and late in the season - it was just too hard to keep it cool enough. On hot days around here, just North of Lake Simcoe, two twenty inch fans in either end and all the windows and sliding doors open wasn't enough. But I will say, the last couple of days have been real crappy and cold so having the option of moving a few of the gals back inside has been a blessing!!!
Your build is coming along nicely and you will not regret spending the time.

I'm in North West Michigan just a little south of you on the same latitude. My land is also wooded and will shade this house during parts of the day. There is no place on my land where I can get full sun from dawn to dusk. During the winter months it will get more light because the leaves will off the trees.

The windows at the bottom are (my thought) to regulate the heat with the cool air being drawn in from the bottom and hotter air vented out the upper windows. I will have one box fan built into the back door at the top with other fans inside if needed. These window panels will be covered in plastic and the inside of the frame will be screened (Bug Control). There is a 2' foot gap that can allow air in. Being new to these things I was trying to think of a better way to open up the bottom. Most raised cattle panel houses that I have seen run a pvc pipe the full length of the house then, roll the plastic up opening up the full area along the bottom at one time. Being the one person that will be maintaining it, I want to be able to open up the bottom by myself. If it is a 20' long opening it would be very hard to open it up by my self. So, I thought doing it in sections would be much simpler as one person to open it up. I could be totally off base here, being new to this type of setup, but I'm going under the concept of cold air sinks and hot air rises. Both doors will be full screen (East and West ends) except the fan in the east end door. I could find that it gets too hot even with these doors at the bottom. That would be a total bummer IMO, and hope you are wrong. I will not ignore your Experience though and think about it before I act.

My plan is to grow some things the whole grow season inside. Some things will be started in the hoop house and then will be transplanted outside, some will remain. My MJ grows are planed for the full season in the hoop house. I live in zone 5a ish, and hoping this will bring me up to at least zone 6a to 6b. That will/should give me at least 2 to 3 months or more grow time. I'm also hoping that by growing in the hoop house it will give me a cleaner hash. Out door grows have a tendency to have (for lack of a better term) more thick dirty trichomes than indoor grows. This makes the hash dark to black. Indoor grows will give more of a blonder hash. My wife wants some Dabs as well and hope this will give it a more golden color.

I'm sure I will have to make some adjustments as I go and scrap others. It is a learning experience as you well know. Thank you for the advise and I will consider it.

 

[greenjeans]

Hey Mord - Sending good vibs!!! What I did to open and close a cover was fasten it to a pipe or pole and fashion a "crank" to the end so I can just wind it up or down. When it was too high I attached a longer stick to the crank. 20' is pretty long but I would try it with one pipe - a 12 - 15" crank gives pretty good leverage and it should crank up nice and level. I put three Gals outside under cover and two in laundry tubs that get moved around according to conditions.
I also check "Kijiji Free" about 10 times a day - a great source for doors, windows, etc. - my whole greenhouse and outdoor cover was built from there except the 2 x 4's!!!

 

[Morda Grown]

Hey Mord - Sending good vibs!!! What I did to open and close a cover was fasten it to a pipe or pole and fashion a "crank" to the end so I can just wind it up or down. When it was too high I attached a longer stick to the crank. 20' is pretty long but I would try it with one pipe - a 12 - 15" crank gives pretty good leverage and it should crank up nice and level. I put three Gals outside under cover and two in laundry tubs that get moved around according to conditions.
I also check "Kijiji Free" about 10 times a day - a great source for doors, windows, etc. - my whole greenhouse and outdoor cover was built from there except the 2 x 4's!!!

I got the center beam up and the windows framed. Decided to take the easy route and went with the square ones. I may not have enough wood to do the bottom windows. So, I'm putting them on hold for now. I started thinking of putting a raised bed down the sides too. I will have to talk it over with my better half and see what she would like. If I do raised beds the window idea is not going to work anyway. I have not decided on what I will use for planters yet. I have plants in 5gal buckets but, want to go a min of 10gal containers. I want to be able to move them if need be too. I'm really thinking of doing a scrog down the center. That would solve any height issues like you have been having. I only have 7 feet height to work with. I'm using old sliding door sections for my end doors. I also have some old windows I'm getting my screens from. I will look into the "Kijiji Free" thing if I do need something It may be of use. Thank You for the tip.

Center Snow Load Beam:

Top Windows Framed In:

 

[Morda Grown]

We have decided on the plastic and going with wiggle wire to attach it.

We are going with this 6mil IRAC clear. What I like about this has condensation control (anti drip) It will also have a better heating effect in the winter. On the bad side it could be a problem in the summer. I'm willing to take that risk.

IRAC 4 Year Greenhouse Film​

IR or Infrared Additive Plastic Film:
Our IRAC film is both a 4 year thermal greenhouse film, and an anti-condensation film. Greenhouse poly films with IR help trap heat radiant heat. For this reason, it is often called a thermal film. When sunlight enters, a lot of the energy can radiate out of standard film. If a greenhouse covering has IR additive, the heat will be trapped and will in-turn raise the overall temperature of the greenhouse. As an example, when a car is left in the sunlight, you will have just experienced the IR effect of your windshield. If your vegetation thrives in very warm environments, you may consider using IR film.
Another consideration with 4 year thermal greenhouse sheeting is that it diffuses the sunlight with nearly the same transmission of a clear poly sheet. Although translucent film will diffuse direct sunlight also, the light transmission is more effective with an IR thermal film.

AC or Anti-Condensate Plastic Film:
Condensation formation can be a problem in greenhouses for various reasons. Condensate can reduce light transmission for clear greenhouses. Also, condensate drippings can spreading disease to plants within a greenhouse. Anti-condensation films help condensate to better flow down the horticultural plastic and it prevents droplets from forming. Farm Plastic Supply 4 year IR comes standard with AC in 6 mil clear.

IRAC Thermal Anti Condensate Greenhouse Film 6mil | Farm Plastic Supply

Prevent condensation with Farm Plastic Supply 4 year anti-condensation plastic. This thermal greenhouse film helps prevent the spread of harmful plant disease.

farmplasticsupply.com

This is the Wiggle Wire 10 piece Kit and will give me 65 feet. The 5 piece kit only gives me 32 feet so I went with the 10 and will use the extra on the ends.

Greenhouse Wiggle Wire & Wiggle Wire Lock Channel

Farm Plastic Supply's greenhouse wiggle wire and lock channel is made from high-quality stainless steel. Choose from 5, 10, 20, 50, and 100 packs here.

farmplasticsupply.com

Edit Watched this and found it informing:

 

[Morda Grown]

Holy Crap! I was not ready for this. I was expecting it would be at min of a week before the plastic and wiggle wire would arrive. It will be here tomorrow just in time for 3 days of predicted rain delay.

Most places take 3-4 days to even get an order ready let alone delivered. Needless to say I'm happy as well as impressed with Farm Plastic Supply Company and now in rush to prep for the plastic install.

Side Note: If anyone is interested in what the cost of this build has been, I will post the numbers when I'm done with the build. I will also post a parts list. Mind you some of the building materials were things I had on hand so that was -0- cost. I am doing my best to add them to the parts list anyway as "On Hand".

 

[Morda Grown]

The plastic arrived but the wiggle wire is missing in action.

Used the Ask Fedex thing and it gave me a canned response.
Said that the time is not specific but the date is definite, well that day is today...

Are they sending it out on a different truck? Shows no movement at all since last night and says "Shipment exception Barcode label unreadable and replaced"... that is all I know

If it is going to be late that is fine, I just want to know what day and not left in limbo. LOL

I can not put the plastic on till the wiggle wire arrives so, I guess it is now a waiting game. if it goes to long I will have to contact Fed-Ex and ask WTF.

 

[Morda Grown]

One issue I had before putting the plastic on was the sharp edges of the cattle panel wire. I had to figure a way to keep them from cutting and tearing the plastic.

My first plan was to put a strap over them and zip tie it. That would have worked but, cost more money. The cheapest 2 in strapping at 25 yards was $40. (needed 70 feet) The next option was to grind them off and smooth them out. That would also work but, it took a lot of time and was weakening the weld of the wire.

My solution that worked:
I was looking around the garage and found some old 1/4 in vinyl tubing. This is the same tubing you would use to hook up a water line to a refrigerator ice maker and/or water dispenser.

I cut about 1 inch lengths then slit them down the center creating a clip. I then slipped it over the wire like this...

I then heated the end with a lighter to soften and smooth off the edge and added a small zip tie to hold it in place.

This worked very well and I was able to do a whole row very quickly without damaging anything. This also will not block any sun light like the strapping would have. Just thought it would be a good tip for anyone facing the same dilemma.

 

[Azimuth]

Clever! I like it.

 

[013]

Love it, killer setup. I had an auxiliary idea about the heat but first lemme throw down the disclaimer. I’m not responsible if you forget this simple precaution and french fry your buns …. turn power off for watering sessions….. but maybe experiment with simple heat cable or heat tape around root ball to help extend growing season, it’s not gonna heat the hoop house but just help the plants that are cabled up.

But yep I had same idea about wood stove or rocket mass with 6 inch exhaust lines under floor and covered with gravel. The thing about rocket mass is you don’t burn continually but light a fire every other day or so because they burn much hotter than regular wood stove but you need sufficient mass as in rock to carry the heat like a crap load of gravel in trench to cover exhaust pipes, might help if set into small embankment, set the rocket mass heater low, connect to a T fitting and run 2 exhaust lines thru hoop house floor. Obviously it’s too late for your current getup but like with many grow related things we have version 1.0 then version 2.0 and so on down the line.

 

[Morda Grown]

Right now I'm working on how I'm going to attach the plastic. I got the wiggle wire and planed on furring strips for the sides. However I saw something that looked very interesting while watching vid on hoop house builds. Using PVC and making runners and clips from it. I had a good size roll of thick walled water pipe that I'm cutting for the main runner and some thin wall water pipe for making clips.

This was working well in my mind until I ran out the thick wall pipe and found my other roll to be thin wall. OOOppps. So, I'm doing a little re planning and hope it works. I had no Idea the other was thin wall till I cut it. It was a pipe that was used for another purpose and fittings on both ends. I already have a $1000 in this project and want to save money if I can. I may however have to buy more thick wall if the thin wall clips don't hold.