Captains Log- Star Date 09/29-The Borg/Bug Wars

OH darn, i forgot to take a pic of them....
i just got back from taking care of the room, cleaning, spraying, looking for bugs in all the wrong places, and finding them....so i started squashing them and thought uh oh, these might be the friendlies, so took of a leaf and put them in a jar and took them to the mic, to look see...they were friendlies....all 3 varieties....and their eggs, and right next to them, spider mite eggs...they were rolling them around, and laying eggs right next to the s.m. eggs, guess when they hatch they wont have to go far for lunch....but i didnt see one live s. mite....so misted the plants down ....sounds ez, but it took 7.5 hrs. to clean the area, dead leaves, ect...and inspect...plus did some replanting ect, put in a few seeds....it seems a little better...i finally broke down a bought a 300 power microscope so i could see what i cant see....sure helps....those preditor mites are mean looking....would feel alot better if i hadnt see the s.mite eggs there, and some plants really seem to have an open for munching sign out...thanks for all the help guys, and will stay alert....i want to try to figure out how to post some pics next, so you can see what i'm saying next time...later...
 
bravo bravo great read mf, any who i found out i got-um in my flower room & my clone station room, if i comprehend what i read wich was some funny shit, i should not freak out, i am chooseing to try soap & water, i have them on my flowering plants i dont think infestation that bad ( i hope ) can i spray the soap&water mix on my flowering girls, i am 40 days into flower iwas going to spray the mix once a day for 3 or 4 days top & bottom of leaves, can a grower go from clones to harvest with spider mites? what happens when its time to harvest the buds, what happens to the mites? thanks.
rnwy29erclr
 
howdy,
the reason i went with preditor mites is i also had them in the bud room....and i have several plants in several diff phases of flowering, so figuring i was going to eat a few, i decided to try to control the menu....seemed my only known choice....the way the p. mites were explained to me was they eat the mites and the eggs, they hatch faster, mature faster and are meaner...once they devour all the s. mites 'they can find'...and the eggs...they devour each other....yes, the wiley little devils are cannibals....so i figure that cuts down the amount of "other" material i smoke or ingest....
the reason i didnt use the others (cures) in the room is taste, smell and general distrust of chemical companies, if they interfere with a bug in the genetic arena, how much do i take before it messes with mine...just a thought tho....
If it was the veg. room, i have a total different attitude....shame on them for being there....whoops....
in general, nearly everyone has more knowledge than me, but thanks to all of the above i'm learning, and re-learning how to laugh....best of luck, lavendar
 
rnwy29erclr said:
bravo bravo great read mf, any who i found out i got-um in my flower room & my clone station room, if i comprehend what i read wich was some funny shit, i should not freak out, i am chooseing to try soap & water, i have them on my flowering plants i dont think infestation that bad ( i hope ) can i spray the soap&water mix on my flowering girls, i am 40 days into flower iwas going to spray the mix once a day for 3 or 4 days top & bottom of leaves, can a grower go from clones to harvest with spider mites? what happens when its time to harvest the buds, what happens to the mites? thanks.
rnwy29erclr
Click to expand...
Hey 29, thanks for the read. My plan of attack would be to first determine exactly how bad the invasion is. As I have said, I suggest you first get your hands on a good scope. What you are able to see with the naked eyeball will tell you a lot: Webbing, brown/yellowing/dying leaves etc. but you also need to get an idea of what may be coming in the hatching of the eggs. In short, are there a few eggs here and there or are the undersides of the leaves covered with eggs to the point where you begin to feel light headed and wanna throw up?

Personally, I used the Safers soap mix for maintenance/prevention only. Knowing what I know now, if I detect bugs, I slap em hard & continuous from the beginning. No summit meetings, treaty negotiating or establishing a demilitarized zone. And no, I will not spare the women and children. This is war, you will all die and so it simply sucks to be you. It's that simple. if you have the visual signs, it means the egg count is already high and the soap mixes most likely arent going to get you out in front of the hatching process.

Containment is the first priority. You achieve this by first eradicating the living with a 'knockdown" application. My choice of weapon here is Avid. You are not only halting the immediate plant damage on-goings, you are also stopping the egg laying process. Several applications over a week period, then I switch to Azamax for a couple treatments and then down to the Safers. Scoping the leaves thru out the killing spree will let you know if you are gaining or losing ground. If youre not seeing Mr & Mrs Spidey themselves, you are getting there. Once they have left the building, continuing the onslaught for several weeks will also render the hatchlings dead hatchling spider mite meat. It may take longer depending simply because the eggs obviously do not all hatch at one time. BTW, as you gain control of the invasion, you will notice a healthy improvement in your plant(s) overall health. This also indicates that you are, once again, in control of its destiny.

As Lavendar noted, introducing good guy bugs to eat the bad guy bugs is also an option. As she and I also noted, with clone plants, all is fair. Soaps, knockdowns, predatory bugs etc. However, fighting the good fight if you have bugs on the buds is another thing. If your plants are in the early stages, no problem. Treat em like they were clones. But if they are already throwing trichomes, it gets tougher. In fact, real tough.

Any treatment of the buds other than predatory mites is just going to stick to the trichomes and in essence, become part of the bud. In other words, your choice of weapons options becomes very limited because you are so close to final product and whatever you use, it will most likely effect overall quality: taste, potency etc. Ive had bugs at the trichome stage and personally speaking, I considered the entire crop a failure. 20 flowering plants, over 4ft tall, down the drain. I did try the soap treatments simply because it was the least invasive to the buds but in the end, I knew the bugs, even if dead, where still going to be stuck to the buds and I chose not to compromise. But that's just me...

Clones to harvest with spider mites. In a word, nope. If the mites dont kill the plant entirely, it will never be all that it can be and as I said, lookin forward to smokin bug poop, personally, just aint an option...:peace: MF
 
i agree.....i also consider the whole thing a loss or "learning experience" which i could have passed on....but i have known people who wont l













i was lucky, caught mine early, but am still fighting, they dont seem to want to give up, and since they are now only..(hahaha)..in the veg. room, i am going for chemical warfare....will rinse them in the shower and spray again on the way to the bud room....doesnt seem fair, such great helpful plants having to deal with such crap....and yeah, mf, thanks for reminding me of the bug poo, big yukk....and no way to rinse there....oh double yukk, not a good visual at all....forgot all about that.....lol...lav
 
lavendar said:
i agree.....i also consider the whole thing a loss or "learning experience" which i could have passed on....but i have known people who wont l




i will see to nite how many are in my flower room, my flowering is almost done
at this point i dont think i could dump my harvest, today i bought some neem oil and went to town in the veg room i soaked the s--t out of my clones top and bottom i'm gonna hit them 3times this week and for the next 3 weeks there all 14inches tall and transplanted in to final containers so dipping um was not an option,this is my first grow and maybe my last this s--t suks.
rnwy
Click to expand...
 
rnwy,
dont give up....every one you kill is a victory....my preditors are still munching away...or iit might be a new generation by now....lavendar
 
rnwy29erclr said:
lavendar said:
i agree.....i also consider the whole thing a loss or "learning experience" which i could have passed on....but i have known people who wont l




i will see to nite how many are in my flower room, my flowering is almost done
at this point i dont think i could dump my harvest, today i bought some neem oil and went to town in the veg room i soaked the s--t out of my clones top and bottom i'm gonna hit them 3times this week and for the next 3 weeks there all 14inches tall and transplanted in to final containers so dipping um was not an option,this is my first grow and maybe my last this s--t suks.
rnwy
Click to expand...

Hey 29, don't give up the ship, sailor. This is the kind of stuff that separates the wannbes from the truly committed grower. As i said way back when, it's not a case of IF you get spider mites, it's just a matter of WHEN. IMO, there are 3 basic essentials in the indoor grow game. Water, lighting and a spider mites possibility/battle plan.

An infestation doesnt mean game over. As Lavendar said, there is a learning curve to the grow game. Experienced growers become experienced thru experience. (Now there's a mouthful.) You can kill your plants a whole lot quicker than the bugs will with an overdose of nutrients, knock a planter over or even have a hanging light come crashing down, taking out an innocent bystander/plant. Hec, I know of a fella who tripped over one plant bucket, only to fall in the middle of another, rendering the poor plant useless. Anybody can tell you, in this game, you will have losses due to one thing or another. It's how we become battle-tested in terms of determination and experience.

I have learned how to treat a 4 ft plant in a 5 gallon bucket as easy as I would an 8 inch clone in a dixie cup. Larger plants require a little more work, but if you catch the infestation before the bud stage, no problem. First, my final planter/5 gal bucket, already has a 4ft garden stake next to the main stalk. You should already have this stake present because as the plant begins to bud, it will require the support anyway. Make sure the plant is loosely tied off to said stake. I then merely lift the plant on to a plant potting table. Now I have the plant high enough to expose the undersides of the leaves for a good spraying which is where you really need to focus the attack. Spray and spin, spray and spin. A quality 3 gallon pump sprayer will help expedite the process. I started with a 1 gallon sprayer but quicky realized with larger plants, the constant refilling and less spray pressure was too time consuming. You want to not only wet the plant leaves, you need to "blast" a stiff spray to help dislodge the nasties.

Once you have wetted & blasted, the plant is now in a vulnerable state. The branches will droop due to the weight of the water. Shake the plant GENTLY to shed the excess water and if need be, tie the drooper branches temporarily back to the stake. Remember the stake? When done, avoid putting the plant back under the light until it dries. When I'm treating plants, I have a floor fan drying one as I'm treating the next. Piece of grower cake.

Notes on the Neem. I killed many a clone before getting a handle on the NEEM oil. 2 things I learned. First, dont put your Neem Oil treated plants under strong lighting immediately after treatment. The oil will burn the leaves beyond recognition and end up doing more damage than the bugs could ever do. If youre doin the Neem, applicate during the sleep cycle.

Second, the Neem will not kill the eggs. If someone tells you it will, put him/her on the potting table and spray them with Neem OIl. IMO, they deserve it. I lost precious time thinking the Neem would do the trick. It helped, but it did not get me out in front of the invasion which is dealing with eggs.

You have to keep in mind, if you have just a few plants, no big. But you can ill afford for the mites to take over a whole crop and left to their own little spider mite devices, if given half a chance, they surely will. I suggest the predator mites or a "knockdown" approach to get immediate control. The Neem, although I dont use it anymore, IMO, is more of a preventative measure. The Azamax, being an Agriculture Oil, IMO, is much more effective. Although they both contain oil, which coats the plant and eventually suffocates the mites, the Azamax will help in the egg killing department to a great extent.

So, there ya have it buckaroo. Stand and fight or run n hide. The Borg/bugs are a tough crowd but they can be had. It takes patience, determination, innovation and above all else, a healthy sense of humor...:peace: MF
Click to expand...
 
hello mf, since this is my first grow and my first time dealing with spider mites, i want to thank you for the very helpful tips & instructions, ok mf i know the old saying don't beleve evrything you read and i know not to butttttt, heres the exzact wording on the bottle of neem i bought at the hardware store,( kills eggs, larvae, and adult insects, prevents and controls blackspots on roses, anthracnose, rust, and powdery mildew kills insects and their eggs,formulated for interiorscape use.) now i think i should get some azamax is this sold in stores? or online only? my flowering plants don't seem to be to bad, i did spray the undersides of the leaves last nite looked at um with a scope b-for hand, i think the worst is in my clone room where i have 22 plants ready for the big switch, so i think like you said i carried them into the flower room now i'm gonna finnish what i have now in my flower room 8 plants then hit the clones hard with everything they can take with out them kicking it, thanks again :thanks:
rnwy29erclr
 
ok m.f.,
i'm being over ran....they have broken thru the defenses....don't know if i'll make it out alive to post again or not....i'm after them....last seen "running thru the jungle, hidy ho"...its time for the bug bombs, any last words before i run after them to outflank them and get ahead....these things are going to die....one way or another....they've snacked their last snack at the girls expense....if this doesn't work, i have emptied the bathtub of calgone, and have the azomax standing by....where does one "find" a barrel, so at some time i can have the bath tub back? lav....later, have donned battle gear...i hate spider mites....
 
I have to laugh at all the things we do save our babys from the spider borgs (mites). I have done, I am going to drown the buggers in water while singing your going to die today. Only to have the borg return in greater numbers. Went broke using azamax. Than one of the biggest clone growers in So Cal turned me on to the Orchard spray that Lowes carrys by Bonide it well make over ten gallons of spray for $20.00 I felt if it was good enough for his babys, it was good enough for mine. Considering He supplys most of the co-ops and growers in my region. it was good bye mites in my grow. This product also controls fungal diseases. This product has made growing fun again. :surf:
 
lavendar said:
ok m.f.,
i'm being over ran....they have broken thru the defenses....don't know if i'll make it out alive to post again or not....i'm after them....last seen "running thru the jungle, hidy ho"...its time for the bug bombs, any last words before i run after them to outflank them and get ahead....these things are going to die....one way or another....they've snacked their last snack at the girls expense....if this doesn't work, i have emptied the bathtub of calgone, and have the azomax standing by....where does one "find" a barrel, so at some time i can have the bath tub back? lav....later, have donned battle gear...i hate spider mites....
Click to expand...

Get ahold of yourself soldier-ette. I can remember back when I was knee-deep in the Borg/bug war. It was spray one day, wait 3 days and scope. Spray again, wait 3 days and scope again. Each time I would scope, it was "Damn, these things just wont die!" And if I wasnt spraying, I was dunkin & dippen.

Oh, and I had to remove 3 runs of clones-45 @ 4 to 5 inches and 4 mothers apprx 3 feet tall. I do believe if I hadnt removed the "beyond saving" ones, I'd still be fighting the fight this day. The 15 four-footers in the flower room were allowed to finish just because of pure stubbornness but alas, it was an hollow victory.

What I am saying is, there may come a time you might have to sacrifice some of your children so others may survive. It's not a Hail Mary situation, merely a reality of utilizing the option of no plant, no bugs. I call it "Selective Removal". As Spock use to say, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". So there's that.

Craigs List in your area might be a good source for a 30 barrel/bucket. If not, any feed store will carry something large enough to use as a dip container. The bathtub? Talk about adapt, innovate, overcome...LOL

I also recall a point of having used everything in my puny bug arsenal and still slowly but steadily continuing to lose ground in my Borg/bug battle. Funny, my use of bug bombs regularly, even before the invasion, gave me a false sense of security in that when the invasion did come, I didnt believe my problem was bug related and consequently wasted precious days messing with nutrient/fertilizer adjustments thinking the problem was either deficiency or over doing something.

Personally speaking, I will never go back to the bombs. I used them as a preventative and as a desperate Hail Mary "death from above." Neither did squat for me and just got me into more trouble. IMO, ya gotta roll down your sleeves and get in amongst it. It's hand to hand, visually search & physically destroy. You are the point man/woman, the squad leader and the squad, all in one. IMO, air support(bug bombs) is just that. Support.

So, strap your Avid or Azamax or perhaps as Trekie suggests, the regulation Bonide field pack to your back, light off the business end and move forward. Trust me, the screams your hear, will be music to your ears...LOL :peace: MF
 
putting more preditors in bud room and will spray, and drench....the veg. room....so how does all this hurt the seedlings? or do they get left out of the equation? seems like they could harbor bugs also....lavendar
 
you know what----- when i first discovered that i had these spider mites i said to my self son of a bitch, what the heck are these spots on my leaves, i did not know, so as i read more & more on this 420 forum i learned more about these bugs, the more i learned the more pissed off i became, then i went to the store and bought a cheap scope, i get home and pull out the scope go into the grow room take a look at 1 of my clones and heres this bug with these legs just walking around on the bottom leaf of my clone, untill that very moment i never really was that mad but after seeing this bug i became much more pissed off now that i put a face to the problem.
rnwy
 
hello mf, your right what a difference a couple days make, i started my treatment on wed and today sat i noticed my plants are looking very happy today, i wont let my guard down because i did see some eggs not many but a couple so i gonna keep up the sentry duty thanks again mf.
rnwy29erclr
 
in the words of butch or sundance "who are those guys"....i went in yesterday to give them their dose of spray, and they were lined up on the leaves holding up their cups....i did notice some had become lame tho....sooooo....being the nasty b.... that i am...i set off a bug bomb last nite....figured, kick them when they're down....why not......i'm not fighting them because i like them.....im beginning to wonder if the ones i got are immune to it all....they seem like seasoned vets.....they may have done all this to them before they got passed on to me....NEVER..NEVER..AGAIN..will i ever take in a clone from some one else....unless i have somewhere to isolate it a mile away from the other girls...well back to airing out the bug room...er....the veg. room....lavendar
 

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