Calcium Deficiency?

[macaroniNchief]

Thanks for all the amazing tips, everyone!

With the nute line you’re using, I highly recommend flushing at flip, and about 5-7 weeks in flower after the “stall”, slightly into the “swell”.

Bottled nutes have the tenancy to build up unused nutrient/salt buildup. Think of it as a blackhead in a pore, but in reverse. That blackhead (salt) is preventing your minerals from getting to the plant through your roots.

Since I'm already starting the 3rd week of flower, do you think its too late to flush...should I just wait until the "stall" flush at this point?

A good flush will clear those blockages (lock outs) out and if followed by a full fresh feed, in my experience provides a “reset” and from what I’ve observed is a good boost to the next stages.

I run 5 gal felt and will do 3 gallons of pHd water and 1 gallon of full strength feed. Sometime a myka (Great White) or a humic acid (URB) or both with it.

When you say "followed by a full fresh feed" do you mean that you apply the feeding immediately after flushing (same day), or do you count the flush day as a watering day and then apply full feed a couple days later after the flush? It sounds like you do it same day (3 gal pHd water and 1 gal full feed), but just wanna make sure.

I actually just bought some Great White for an experimental organic grow so I'll be sure to throw some in there if I end up flushing.

 

[macaroniNchief]

5ml every gallon every feeding every watering. 84f when the lights are on for proper LST.

Does the 84 F thing only apply to plants that were LST'd? I did top them but I don't think I've done any LST to these plants (other than moving big fan leaves and tucking them away for better light penetration).

 

[macaroniNchief]

The "grow shop guy" gets blamed for a lot of things that really is not his or her fault.

Yeah I was kinda joking here. Sometimes I feel like I'm a pushover in the store since I'm new to this and I basically buy whatever they tell me to at this point. However, I'm learning a lot through these forums and journals so I should have a better idea of the things I'll need for the next go 'round. I actually love my grow shop, they cut me a nice deal on an AC Infinity 5x5 and ROI-e680s, a better deal than I could find anywhere online so that's pretty cool. They also gave me a free bottle of Lightning Start nutrients (0.2 - 0.2 - 0.7) to help me out in growing strong roots in veg stage.

BTW I think I will ditch the dechlorinator. One less chemical going into my water can only be a good thing, especially if its not absolutely necessary.

 

[AdaminCO]

Does the 84 F thing only apply to plants that were LST'd? I did top them but I don't think I've done any LST to these plants (other than moving big fan leaves and tucking them away for better light penetration).

LST… that means Leaf Surface Temperature in this regard.

You have ambient (room temp) and LST.

If your room is 84 your leaf surface temperature is typically lower with LEDs.

75F is considered optimal LST, but the issue is that when using HPS bulbs, ambient and Room Temp are fairly close, where as with LEDs your LST runs lower than ambient hence the bump in ambient to 84 with LED.

 

[AdaminCO]

Thanks for all the amazing tips, everyone!



Since I'm already starting the 3rd week of flower, do you think its too late to flush...should I just wait until the "stall" flush at this point?



When you say "followed by a full fresh feed" do you mean that you apply the feeding immediately after flushing (same day), or do you count the flush day as a watering day and then apply full feed a couple days later after the flush? It sounds like you do it same day (3 gal pHd water and 1 gal full feed), but just wanna make sure.

I actually just bought some Great White for an experimental organic grow so I'll be sure to throw some in there if I end up flushing.

I run straight pH’d 6.3 water, usually use a 5 gallon jug of spring water, then immediately after hit it with another gallon with full dose feed.

 

[AdaminCO]

Pretty good reference material to read if you have the time.

“It takes about 1,000 mg of vitamin C (ascorbic acid form) to remove chloramines from 40 gallons of water”

• Chloramine Removal:
  Carbon filters remove this chemical but the filter is used up much faster than for other chemicals and takes much longer to do the job. A special form of carbon, “Catalytic carbon”, as it works better than standard carbon (sometimes called Centaur). In other words it will require a larger and more expensive filter to remove it.
  
  
• Carbon filters remove the chlorine portion of the molecule leaving the ammonia behind hence it requires another stage of filtration such as reverse osmosis to remove it.
  
  Vitamin C filters – For showers this works better than other types at removing chloramines.
  
  
• It takes about 1,000 mg of vitamin C (ascorbic acid form) to remove chloramines from 40 gallons of water.
  
  Reverse osmosis units do remove chloramines as they generally have a couple carbon filters but they often produce large amounts of salt (sodium) in the water which can also cause problems if used to water plants.
  
  Double counter top units work better than single stage filters for drinking water(Cool water must be used for these filters to work effectively).
  
  Note: When chloramines is coupled with chlorine and fluoride the combinednegative effects on plant and soil health is much greater.
  
  REFERENCES:
  Removing Chloramines from Water, Pure Water Products, LLC.
  Citizens Concerned about Chloramine,
  Chloramine Facts - Citizens Concerned About Chloramine (CCAC)
  Citizens Concerned About Chloramine (CCAC)
  Home - Citizens Concerned About Chloramine (CCAC)
  
  Alternative Disinfectants and Oxidants Guidance Manual, EPA 815-R-99-014, April 1999
  WHO’s Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality. PDF 145KB
• Wikipedia – Chloramine
  Chloramines - Wikipedia
  
  Catalytic Carbons Help Remove Chloramine, by Stephen Spotts
  Calagon Carbon Corporation
  
  HTG Supplys “Ask The Doc”,
  
  “Chloramines Can Kill Your Plants”
  
  “Water Problems and Ornamental Plants”
  
  “Watering the Vegetable Garden with CityWater”
  Watering the Vegetable Garden With City Water | Veggie Gardener
  
  The Case Against Fluoride, Paul Connett, PhD, James Beck, MD, PhD and H.S. Micklem, DPhil, Chelsa Green Publishing, Copyright 2010, ISBN 978-1-60358-287-2

 

[AdaminCO]

Thanks for all the amazing tips, everyone!



Since I'm already starting the 3rd week of flower, do you think its too late to flush...should I just wait until the "stall" flush at this point?

When do they tell you to flush in your schedule?

 

[macaroniNchief]

this is the type I use in my tent. No exposed heating elements.

So closing the AC vents hasn't really done much. The tent is in a finished room down in the basement and the ambient temperature doesn't seem to be affected much by the closing of the AC vents. This will be my first summer in this house so I'm gonna wait a bit longer to see if it heats up down there at all but if it doesn't I'm gonna look into that style of heater. They're kind of expensive but reading @Buds Buddy posts and his experiences with raising temps, it seems like its worth it.

 

[macaroniNchief]

LST… that means Leaf Surface Temperature in this regard.

You have ambient (room temp) and LST.

If your room is 84 your leaf surface temperature is typically lower with LEDs.

75F is considered optimal LST, but the issue is that when using HPS bulbs, ambient and Room Temp are fairly close, where as with LEDs your LST runs lower than ambient hence the bump in ambient to 84 with LED.

Okay cool, thanks for the clarification. I think I actually have come across this before in my research. Something about LEDs and their lack of IR frequencies means that I need higher ambient temperatures for leaf heat. Its all coming back to me now. I've read so much stuff this past year that some of it has gotten lost in the mix!

 

[macaroniNchief]

When do they tell you to flush in your schedule?

That's the thing, in the Flora series schedule it says not to flush until the last week using the GH product "FloraKleen." Since it wasn't in the schedule up to this point, I haven't done it yet.

I do have a bottle of FloraKleen that is yet unused.

 

[macaroniNchief]

Pretty good reference material to read if you have the time.

Thanks for the links, I'll be digging into those after I get home tonight!

 

[zigzagman1960]

Does the 84 F thing only apply to plants that were LST'd? I did top them but I don't think I've done any LST to these plants (other than moving big fan leaves and tucking them away for better light penetration).

sorry I’m not talking about low stress training. I’m talking about Leaf Surface Temperature

 

[AdaminCO]

Okay cool, thanks for the clarification. I think I actually have come across this before in my research. Something about LEDs and their lack of IR frequencies means that I need higher ambient temperatures for leaf heat. Its all coming back to me now. I've read so much stuff this past year that some of it has gotten lost in the mix!

Here is the article I ran across.
I don’t like going off manufacturer’s “test”, but I think the science is there.

 

[AdaminCO]

That's the thing, in the Flora series schedule it says not to flush until the last week using the GH product "FloraKleen." Since it wasn't in the schedule up to this point, I haven't done it yet.

I do have a bottle of FloraKleen that is yet unused.

It might not be needed then. Like I said, I usually do it out of preventative measures because I started seeing issues around week 7. Mainly with nitro tox and Cal-Mag lockout, so I started trying to get ahead of it.

Doing it at the end won’t do anything in my opinion. I have a link in my signature about flushing if you want to take a peek.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have always considered the start of week 6, the start of the final bud swell, to be the optimum time to flush soil of synthetic salts, so that the pipes are all clean for the maximum nutrient and water uptake of the entire grow during that last two weeks. A flush at the very end has been proven to be mostly pointless now that we know you can't flush nutrients out of the plant.

 

[macaroniNchief]

It might not be needed then. Like I said, I usually do it out of preventative measures because I started seeing issues around week 7. Mainly with nitro tox and Cal-Mag lockout, so I started trying to get ahead of it.

Doing it at the end won’t do anything in my opinion. I have a link in my signature about flushing if you want to take a peek.

I'll check your flushing link out tonight.

Two of my four super skunk plants are exhibiting these issues. I think I'm gonna flush/feed one this weekend and see how that goes. If it goes well I'll do the other one (and maybe just do all them for good measure).

I'm also growing two Bruce Banners and those things have been bulletproof. No fussiness, no leaf issues, etc. They're also not topped. When topping plants, does that increase their thirst for nutrients? I'm wondering if the topping is playing into some of my issues?

 

[macaroniNchief]

So unfortunately, things have gone from bad to worse....basically overnight.

I raised my temps to about 80 deg F and 40-50% RH with the door closed and I added in the full dose of calmag @ 5mL/gal and it seemed like things were getting back in check but the other night, many of the leaves showing the red dots have now also yellowed.

I also found out that I must've messed up my pH pen calibration. I went to the store the other day and bought a BlueLab pH pen that was calibrated in store and my original pen is reading a full 2 pH lower than the BlueLab. So basically when I thought I was giving nutes and water at 6.5 ph according to my budget meter, I was actually giving them 8.5 pH water!

So what I've done is yesterday I flushed one of the plants (in 3 gallon pot) with 6 gallons of 6.5 pH'd tap water, immediately followed by a gallon of nutrients at a half dose (6.5 pH). Due to some time constraints, I simply fed the rest according to schedule, using my Bluelab pH pen at a true reading of 6.5 pH.

We're on Day 28 of flower so keeping my fingers crossed that I'll see some improvements, I'm hoping I'm not in danger of losing the crop! I'm wondering if I should go ahead and flush ALL the plants?

See below for a comparison of the plants from April 3 to April 8. Also see below for some closeups from 4/8. I also have a plant that was originally a runt but its doing some crazy things with the buds. The stems are flattened and it seems like 2 bud sites are forming on the top, you can see it in the last picture. Oddly enough, the runt is showing none of the leaf symptoms that the other plants are showing.

If anyone want to see some closer leaf pictures, just let me know and I can have my friend snap some pics when the lights come back on this evening.

 

[SmokingWings]

See below for a comparison of the plants from April 3 to April 8.

Still a good looking batch of plants.

What I noticed was that the lighting does not appear to be the same between the 3rd and the 8th. The second photo has more yellow from the lights judging by the overall color and the color of the reflective tent material. That throws the color of the leaves off a bit.

...and it seemed like things were getting back in check but the other night, many of the leaves showing the red dots have now also yellowed.

By the looks of it the leaves that started to show up a deficiency earlier with the red dots are the same leaves that are now showing a bit of what looks like the common Nitrogen deficiency. The plants are now about 2 weeks older than at the start of the thread and we often see signs of a Nitrogen deficiency show up about this point with more than one thread from other growers running into the same sort of symptoms.

It might be resulting from nice sized plants with a lot of leaves in a pot of soil that is not large enough to keep up with the demands of the new flowering growth.

I don't remember if the Cal-Mag you were using has 5% Nitrogen in it or not. If so, the plants might need a tiny bit more. What I have been doing for my grows is to put a dose of a mild Nitrogen fertilizer on all my flowering plants once a week to 10 days starting at 'week one'. I just started doing that several weeks ago and so far so good.