Building soil from scratch and on the cheap!

Nice share Gardenfaerie I believe those recipes are shared on a few sites, possibly elsewhere on this site too but IDR. I know Ive seen the same post a couple times though and was thinkin about using one before I came across the Super Soil recipe that I use now.

Also the way I understand it is that the leachate from the worm bins are nutrients and inactive microbe spores which are good for your plants but not the same as an AACT because in the AACT the microbes are alive and ready to go to work on your organic materials within your soil but the nutrients in the AACT have already been used up by the microbes. Both are beneficial but not in the same way. I also read that the leachate should be diluted before use if used on your plants but is safe to add to your compost pile or back into your worm bin as is.
 
By all accounts I've read the Subcool SS you're using, CD, is the best supersoil recipe out there. I was really close to using that instead of the TLO thing when I first got started. Remember Doctordanknstein?, he had insane plants indoors under LED, in subcool's mix.
 
COorganics said:
By all accounts I've read the Subcool SS you're using, CD, is the best supersoil recipe out there. I was really close to using that instead of the TLO thing when I first got started. Remember Doctordanknstein?, he had insane plants indoors under LED, in subcool's mix.
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Im not gonna say its the best recipe out there but it is DAMN good and the only one Ive used so far. Ive seen alot of people say its shit and put it down but those people have obviously never used it or didnt follow the directions if they did. It works great and you dont need to use teas or anything just add water and youre good to go. Ive said it a few times that the indoor Blue Dream I grew indoors in it is the best tasting and smelling stuff Ive ever had and it wasnt grown in the best of conditions either.

The only problem with it is the cost and the amount of soil you end up when you make a batch of it. Then ya gotta buy the same amount of soil again before using it because it is a concentrated soil to be used in the bottom half of your pot. I have 2 batches that Ive made so thats 32 bags of Roots soil plus Ive bought extra bags in between batches for clones and seedlings so I have close to 40 bags of Roots soil in my garden at this point. Even at a discounted price of 10 bucks a bag thats 400 bucks plus the amendments so I have over 600 bucks into my soil right now. Thats why Im interested in what youre doing and reading up more on teas because I have more than enough soil right now that is still in good shape and re-usable.

I found a breakdown of the recipe and posted it in another journal here, Ill find it and post it in here for ya. You can make smaller batches but I havent found smaller boxes of amendments than the 5 and 6 pound boxes that I use in the full batch so even a small batch will cost over 100 bucks unless you can find the amendments in smaller packages than I can.
 
wow thats expensive and storage would be a pita.

doc buds kit is a deal in comparison. some prime chiba has been grown with the kit. i just snagged some pro mix and am ordering the kit soon. docs stuff is based on lab testing so the guess work / formulation has a scientific basis. i am psyched to give it a spin.

i also think there is value in the educational aspect of using a product that is based on soil science. i expect to observe and understand plant behavior / responses more clearly using the kit.
 
VonDankenhoek said:
wow thats expensive and storage would be a pita.

doc buds kit is a deal in comparison. some prime chiba has been grown with the kit. i just snagged some pro mix and am ordering the kit soon. docs stuff is based on lab testing so the guess work / formulation has a scientific basis. i am psyched to give it a spin.

i also think there is value in the educational aspect of using a product that is based on soil science. i expect to observe and understand plant behavior / responses more clearly using the kit.
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Yes it is expensive which is why I have been looking into ways to reuse it and get similar results by re-amending and using teas and possibly spikes. Storage would be difficult for those who dont have much space but I had enough room that it wasnt much of an issue. This fall/winter could be a different story though since I made a 2nd batch for this year and have collected quite a bit of shit in the last year.

I was/am interested in Docs kit but I have too much invested into my soil at this point to scrap it all and start over. Ive talked to him a couple of times in private messages because he used the SS before coming up with his kit and I was looking for advice which he gave. It really is a great thing what he does here and what Microbeman has done elsewhere. 2 kinda different things but in a way similar because they both have spent their time and money researching and trying different things to find the best way to reach the goals they set out to reach and then offer their knowledge to all of us for free. The difference between them and Sub is that they know why and how their shit works. Sub just did alot of experimenting and found a mix that works great but cant tell you how or why it does which is fine with me cuz it does work great and it is easy to find his recipe.

Im sure you will grow some ass kicking smoke with Docs kit, as long as you follow his directions and dont stray. Thats the other thing that helped me decide against the kit. Im kinda lazy and dont really follow any schedule so doing it this way I dont have to worry about when to do this spray or that drench. I just add some water when its needed and make a microbe tea whenever I feel like doin it.

Let me know when/if you start a journal with the kit, Ill follow along.
 
Hi, CO! Nice, intelligent post! Just thought I'd vote on the water thing. I vote rainwater. Much of this post is beyond my scope, but I understand enough to follow without yelling "Wait up!" too much. I, uh, also kinda skimmed some of the really long parts.

Someone here mentioned storing rainwater in cheap containers. :thumb: However, my second gut reaction when I learned you had a lake, is the lake water. I hope your tea experiment goes well with the lake water, because I am suddenly on the fence about rain. ONLY because you would be getting more organic matter from the lake. More, different and absolutely free stuff like fish poop.

Rain water for watering the plants, lake water for stirring up the dirt. Tap water to make ice cubes to put in your gin and tonic.

Another thought for you that I hope is original, since I skimmed: How about some lake sludge for your dirt?

Happy trails!
:circle-of-love:
Marion
 
This is just a guess, but I would say the years and years of fish poop on the bottom along with glacial retreat left overs and all good stuff like that. Something to consider if you are thinking of harvesting some lake sediment, are there a lot of power boats that use your lake(they may have leaked oil ect.)? If it is only a few boats then no worries. If you do decide to try adding lake sediment to your soil mix make sure you dry it out well and grind it up before adding it to your soil mix so that it mixes in easier. If you do grab some sediment from the lake, grab it where there is some organic growth going on, near cat tails or other plants growing in the lake. Theoretically it sounds good but I have no idea what nutrients or minerals would be in the sediment of a lake.
 
labexperiment said:
This is just a guess, but I would say the years and years of fish poop on the bottom along with glacial retreat left overs and all good stuff like that. Something to consider if you are thinking of harvesting some lake sediment, are there a lot of power boats that use your lake(they may have leaked oil ect.)? If it is only a few boats then no worries. If you do decide to try adding lake sediment to your soil mix make sure you dry it out well and grind it up before adding it to your soil mix so that it mixes in easier. If you do grab some sediment from the lake, grab it where there is some organic growth going on, near cat tails or other plants growing in the lake. Theoretically it sounds good but I have no idea what nutrients or minerals would be in the sediment of a lake.
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I couldn't have said it better. Yes, I was thinking of the organic matter. Sediment is a much better term than sludge. If something is already growing in the dirt, then the dirt is fertile. There may even be a quickie way to google up, say, "What kind of minerals do cat tails like?" Another thought, taking the cat tails a step further, look where the native plants are thriving. Or the fish a pooping the most.

I guess I assumed your lake was a pristine, untouched beauty. Thank you, Lab, for being so thorough.

So many factors! I didn't know dirt could be so exciting!
 
labexperiment said:
Cat tails use high amounts of Phosphorus.
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Well, there you go. We can then extrapolate that sediment where cat tails grow would be high in phosphorous. I'm looking over my notes for buying nutes for my girls that flowering likes high P levels. The bulk of my research has only been for the flowering stage. And beyond deciding on FFOF dirt, nothing about dirt.

Thanks for letting me use the word extrapolate! CO, it's all up to you. By the way, I deduced from your name that you are vaguely interested in organics. ;) From there I will extrapolate that you believe in living slow and green, as well as cheap. By living slow, I am referring to buying from local farmers, avoiding prepackaged foods, and so on. Just curious. One of my many hobbies is using arm chair potato chip analysis. It's like handwriting analysis, only with potato chips.

:Love:
Marion
 
I can throw my two cents in about collecting sediment or sludge or muck. Knowing the difference between these is vital in where you get it from. Where there is active growth would be a very good sign, as someone already said. Where you can run into problems is no way of knowing the levels of elements in this sediment unless you measure it in a lab. You could over use it. So my answer to this is, definitely get the sediment, but put it into an active compost pile as a really nice additive. It will help with texture, add microbes differently, and the process will break it all down into the perfect organic matter. I can grow directly in my compost when it is finished. I've not tried doing that indoors. A lot of things living in that compost!
 
Marion,
Your style of writting is very cool and amusing, thanks!

Re: lake sludge or sediment, it sounds like a nice potential addition. And the alpine lakes in my area are About as pristine as it gets. Good idea.

Re: organics and lifestyle, you are kinda on the money with how I'd like to live but really I don't do such a good job of it. I've been known to drink beer all day and eat some of the nastiest processed foods around. Like shrimp flavored ramen noodles. There's are real winner. I'm trying to change that though. And live a healthier, self sustaining-er lifestyle. Lol.
Anyways, my pot is organic because I thought that would be the way to roll (and it is), and I'm fortunate to have never tried growing any other way. And I have a nice organic veggie garden going, 14 veggies and 4 herbs.

We're gonna buy a house some day and raise all kinda food animals is the eventual plan. I have a cool book worth checking out called urban homesteading. I wanna do all that shit someday.

There's my story.
 
Garden Girl, once again I couldn't have said it better. Mostly because you already know about compost, but also because you are underlining the Under Water Dirt as a variable. I also think you have keenly described the three grades: Sediment, Sludge and Muck. I'm thinking we can start a whole new thread!

Ain't this a whole new field of dirt? Or, do am I clomping behind as usual, emptying mud out of my gardening clogs?"

I'm all about what is on hand to make do, then make better. CO, my whole armchair potato chip thing was my way to gently prod you to dig up sludge.
:Love:
Marion
 
Yay! Are we back to dirt again? I have been super excited about dirt. First things first. What is the verdict on lake sludge? Will you or won't ya dig it up? I hope, CO, that you have been busy with the joys in life. Getting ready to make an awkward joke. Making dirt is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Meaning, "Glad your back, don't worry, here's some pop corn."
 
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