FourtwentyCent
420 Member
nice to hear they have ace seeds I ordered some seeds on 420 days. After the past couple week received them, that's cool by me.
Building a SIP like planter
- Thread starter Melville Hobbes
- Start date
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Buds picture made me think I need more space, but well yours shows it can be done in less, how do you get the buds stacked so long? what light are you using? as I only get the top foot right, that's big and fat but under that foot the buds don't stack anymore but become spindly long lightseekers that I usually cut away, which makes me think it's a light issue, as I keep mine a bit higher than advised flowering height mainly because at that height I've had the tops go crisp.Or, in a smaller grow space, this well..!
Although now I'm writing this that comes from Auto experience with the light and not the recent switch I made to photos.. with an 8 hour light difference that might explain the crisp and the photo periods might very well be able to handle the light a lot closer for 12 hours.. ahaa gonna give it a try with the upcoming grow.
Hi, Fenderbender- Thanks for asking!
I think a lot of it is luck, but I also run the light pretty close to the canopy (17") so they don't need to stretch for the light- and, when I flip to 12/12, I also boost the wattage from 150 to 20 watts, leaving the plant at the same distance from the light.
(actually, my light doesn't move, I raise and lower the plant as needed)
This means that they do most of their stretching during the dark period, so even though they do stretch, it happens more slowly, so the nodes can keep up with the growth of the branch- instead of a 2' branch with 5 nodes, I get a 12" branch with 9 or 10 nodes..
The light is a NextLight 420h (420 watts) but in my small space, I don't turn it up past 210 watts.
It's a 25"x25" light, and the box is 24"x24", so the plant gets pretty good wall to wall coverage.
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Oh okay, well yeah yep that will do it.. you're concentrating a lot of power on a small area.. even 210 is plenty.
I have the structure for these buds but they don't stack like that as they start wandering.
And I'm thinking bit lower the light, that could stack an extra few inches.. but mainly a bit extra power and a better spread
I have the structure for these buds but they don't stack like that as they start wandering.
And I'm thinking bit lower the light, that could stack an extra few inches.. but mainly a bit extra power and a better spread
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
Wow, Mel, that's the worst photo of a piece of PVC I've ever seen.Hey guys, I'll be documenting my attempt to make my own SIP like planter here.
I have acquired the following items
25 litres perlite
90 litres soil
A 63 litre tote
A length of pipe that reaches from the bottom of the tote to just above the rim
It's about 5cm in diameter.
I also have a roll of burlap, and a raw cotton bag big enough to hold a bottle of wine with plenty of space to spare.
I'm intending to put about 10 litres of perlite in the bottom of the tote, surrounding the end of the pipe and the raw cotton bag which will be full of soil.
On top of that will be a layer of burlap to keep the soil from infiltrating the perlite with a hole to the cotton bag, then the soil on top.
I'll be posting pics here as I build it, assuming @Azimuth or anyone else who has experience with SIP/swick containers doesn't tell me I'm completely wrong about whether or not this will work.
I'm open to any suggestions or critique you all may have!
Congrats lol.Just pokin' fun. Excited to have you on the SIP bandwagon. Welcome to the Jungle!
I have to admit that when I joined up here, trying to start the SIP fire was on my mind a lot, but I was new and a bit confused that it wasn't in reg use already. The year before I joined I'd been growing veg in SIPs outside for a year. Then I got the opportunity to grow weed again and came over here after checking out all the other forums. I couldn't figure out why SIP wasn't popular with weed growers so I scoured the internet for weed SIPPers and they were out there, few, and scattered, but out there, and having the same results as me. I tried DWC and felt that SIP grew just as well, and as fast, but it was on the opposite end of the "demanding and requires commitment" scale. Still, since nobody was hardly doing it a lot of self-doubt crept in. Weird experience. Thankfully Azimuth was there to chat with and we pressed forward. Really grateful he started the thread, I told him I wanted one but wasn't willing to start it, and he totally took that the good way! Nice job Azi.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
Mel, @bluter 's comment is valid and I've got some real concerns. Because you have perlite meeting, I mean touching, the soil on a broad surface it will act as the wick even though the supposed rez water level is kept technically below the perlite's top with a drain hole. Another thing to think of is that your soil will crush and compact the perlite over time, and potentially bring the soil down to the drain-hole's level, or lower, if perlite's not given some extra height above the hole.
Most importantly (though the sinking perlite could be pretty serious) I'm concerned that with the entire bottom surface area receiving wicking - because it's touching the perlite which will wick up past the drain hole, no sweat - that you will reach over-moist, under-aerated conditions. Perlite wicks extremely powerfully. My little baggy-pots that sit on perlite sacks in those clear containers (see my in recent posts on the SIP thread), they only work because the entire pot is porous material and of small volume, so with air coming in from all sides it means the water has enough oxygen in it that it doesn't matter how wet it gets, like DWC.
In your case the plastic pot will only have access to climate-gasses/oxygen via the top surface, possibly (likely) not enough to keep the bottom water/soil oxygenated or, alternately, aerated, and the perlite will wick up past any airgap attempt made with a drainhole.
A solution that I would prescribe would be to find a big plastic tote lid or otherwise large enough sheet of non-porous material and make a false floor out of it, drilled with lots of little holes, with a hole in the middle for the wick, which looks fine. You can prop the false floor up with PVC pipe stood vertically under it, or get some of that perforated pipe for drain fields. For your large pot size you should look for 6" perforated drain pipe, instead of the 4" usually used. Although the 4" will work great. False floors give you max rez volume as a side benefit.
As an aside, I've found that if you drill two drain/air gap holes, then you'll get lots of oxygenation/aeration generated from the cross flow between the drain holes. But you;ll still need a proper airgap. Another little trick to get some flow in that gap is to figure out at what height of your fill tube is located the air-gap, and drill a bunch of holes at that 1-2inch stretch so atmo-gasses can pass down the fill pipe and into the airgap, out the drain holes and the reverse.
Another solution would be to fill the bottom with capped-off sections of perforated drain pipe or drilled out PVC pieces laid horizontally. Capp off to keep dirt out. Then you can drop some perlite straight on top or just soil/perlite mix (1/3 perlite) That way you don't have to come up with the false floor piece and as long as the drain hole(s) are placed correctly leaving and inch of air in the tubes as it settles. There need to be large air voids between the soil and reservoir as much as possible and a pure perlite layer won't allow it, it will, ironically, wick up and fill with water, esp over time it will seem to get wetter and wetter without adding water as all the little voids fill slowly. it's kinda weird. This solution will have a smaller rez than a false floor, but still work extremely well.
Thirdly, you could find a bucket to turn upside down to create a large void, drill it with holes everywhere and one just large enough to fit your fill pipe, like @AspenCultivator and Azimuth, and BudsBuddy.
Man, I hope you don't mind this and I hope I've explained what I see the problem being and why. You won't get a true airgap with that setup due to the perlite's wicking capacity and without the bottom can become overwet with water that doesn't have enough oxygen in it. All SIPs are "overwet" at the bottom, it's just that they have a steady oxygen flow into that water. Root rot takes place when a root uses up all of the oxygen from the water in a location and then starts to die away. The problem this causes is, all can be fine until you have a nice mature plant that's constantly using more oxygen over a given time period and the demand level finally taps out the source's ability to re-oxygenate fast enough. This means everything seems ideal for months and you are cruising to a skookum harvest and then, BAM, root rot. It's one of those might/might not issues but because it's often 100% fatal and can often happen late in a grow, I feel pain like that ought not to be chanced.
Phew. I'll stop there. Man, I hope we're still friends! Let me know if I can help, happy to try to explain again if you thought it would help. Sorry to butt in, but you know...
Most importantly (though the sinking perlite could be pretty serious) I'm concerned that with the entire bottom surface area receiving wicking - because it's touching the perlite which will wick up past the drain hole, no sweat - that you will reach over-moist, under-aerated conditions. Perlite wicks extremely powerfully. My little baggy-pots that sit on perlite sacks in those clear containers (see my in recent posts on the SIP thread), they only work because the entire pot is porous material and of small volume, so with air coming in from all sides it means the water has enough oxygen in it that it doesn't matter how wet it gets, like DWC.
In your case the plastic pot will only have access to climate-gasses/oxygen via the top surface, possibly (likely) not enough to keep the bottom water/soil oxygenated or, alternately, aerated, and the perlite will wick up past any airgap attempt made with a drainhole.
A solution that I would prescribe would be to find a big plastic tote lid or otherwise large enough sheet of non-porous material and make a false floor out of it, drilled with lots of little holes, with a hole in the middle for the wick, which looks fine. You can prop the false floor up with PVC pipe stood vertically under it, or get some of that perforated pipe for drain fields. For your large pot size you should look for 6" perforated drain pipe, instead of the 4" usually used. Although the 4" will work great. False floors give you max rez volume as a side benefit.
As an aside, I've found that if you drill two drain/air gap holes, then you'll get lots of oxygenation/aeration generated from the cross flow between the drain holes. But you;ll still need a proper airgap. Another little trick to get some flow in that gap is to figure out at what height of your fill tube is located the air-gap, and drill a bunch of holes at that 1-2inch stretch so atmo-gasses can pass down the fill pipe and into the airgap, out the drain holes and the reverse.
Another solution would be to fill the bottom with capped-off sections of perforated drain pipe or drilled out PVC pieces laid horizontally. Capp off to keep dirt out. Then you can drop some perlite straight on top or just soil/perlite mix (1/3 perlite) That way you don't have to come up with the false floor piece and as long as the drain hole(s) are placed correctly leaving and inch of air in the tubes as it settles. There need to be large air voids between the soil and reservoir as much as possible and a pure perlite layer won't allow it, it will, ironically, wick up and fill with water, esp over time it will seem to get wetter and wetter without adding water as all the little voids fill slowly. it's kinda weird. This solution will have a smaller rez than a false floor, but still work extremely well.
Thirdly, you could find a bucket to turn upside down to create a large void, drill it with holes everywhere and one just large enough to fit your fill pipe, like @AspenCultivator and Azimuth, and BudsBuddy.
Man, I hope you don't mind this and I hope I've explained what I see the problem being and why. You won't get a true airgap with that setup due to the perlite's wicking capacity and without the bottom can become overwet with water that doesn't have enough oxygen in it. All SIPs are "overwet" at the bottom, it's just that they have a steady oxygen flow into that water. Root rot takes place when a root uses up all of the oxygen from the water in a location and then starts to die away. The problem this causes is, all can be fine until you have a nice mature plant that's constantly using more oxygen over a given time period and the demand level finally taps out the source's ability to re-oxygenate fast enough. This means everything seems ideal for months and you are cruising to a skookum harvest and then, BAM, root rot. It's one of those might/might not issues but because it's often 100% fatal and can often happen late in a grow, I feel pain like that ought not to be chanced.
Phew. I'll stop there. Man, I hope we're still friends! Let me know if I can help, happy to try to explain again if you thought it would help. Sorry to butt in, but you know...
- Thread starter
- #47
This had actually occurred to me.
When I was starting this thread about what I was building I actually called it a SIP-like-planter as it doesn't really meet all the criteria to be a true SIP.
I did look for something to use as a floor instead of the perlite, but anything that came up either didn't work or was prohibitively expensive.
This is a total experiment, and it might crash and burn, but it should be fun!
If I start to smell a problem through the watering tube my plan is to first put a bunch of H²O² down there, and then to drill multiple holes around the res and switch to a modified wet dry cycle, never fully filling the res. This mimics the way some pots I used to use work, with a watering port at the bottom.
They grew great plants, but we're only 10 litres and got rootbound quite quickly.
It might be too late by then, but we won't know for sure unless someone tries it.
I'm planning to grow an auto in there, and I don't know how that might change things though.
I have a question RD:
I'll be building one soon based on the tub in a bucket system and wondering what your thoughts are on not drilling holes in the sides?
Feel free to post the answer in my thread or the SIP one so as not to clutter up Mel's!
Aspen was thinking that the holes in the sides of the res tub weren't necessary, and that the only place the water needed to meet the soil was at the very bottom where there were gaps between the upside down tub and the bottom of the bucket.
I'll be building one soon based on the tub in a bucket system and wondering what your thoughts are on not drilling holes in the sides?
Feel free to post the answer in my thread or the SIP one so as not to clutter up Mel's!
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
Well, that's rather the issue to my mind. Because root rot is extremely hit-and-miss even in an unsuitable container, getting it, or, more importantly, not getting it provides precious little intel on whether you may get it next time.
Nonetheless, per ardua ad astra!
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
hmm okay so rootrot is a concern? probably certainly in an outside grow as the process is a lot longer for something to fester in the container.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
It's not, if you do it right and don't get creative building it and go your own way, a SIP famously does not get root rot, and part of the legend is the awe over how wet they are deep down there and yet growing as well as anything you've tried, or better. You guys all got this, I'm just spewin'
The holes in the rez tub/void container aren't needed for the water part assuming there's some way for the water to leak out into the soil, so waffling along the bottom or a couple of holes down low will suffice for that.
What extra holes do do, though, is provide a way to get air down into that lower area of very wet soil. That's why I put a ton of holes in my void containers. It's for the air, not the water, and is what I think is the true secret to the success of these things.
Mostly the same origin story for me. I experimented with different versions of bottom watering concepts for years on both house plants and outdoor veggies. I started with Swicks but found the concept of mating the reservoir with the soil part more variable than I liked, though I still do strawberries that way on an elevated trellis.
I started doing some early versions of my SIPs and had better success than I had had with any other method and wondered why they were not more popular (still do). Around that time Jeremy at Build A Soil used Earthboxes in one of his seasonal grows, and @Buds Buddy started trying them as well. Jeremy made the comment that these pots were great "for new growers until they figured out how to water correctly" but for me, these things blew away anything I had ever tried before. And ResDog added his experience and I thought we should have a common thread to consolidate our knowledge since great info was starting to get spread over several different journals.
The #SIP Club thread is a collaboration thread where all share our experiences and hopefully advance the "science" of these things and make it easier for those new to the concept to jump in and have success right from the jump.
They are quite forgiving and grow great plants so, what's not to like!
I know where they’re from (Mexico) but I was asking about the distributors. CL
I hate that about Ace, you have to check back daily if you’re wanting something special. CL
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
That doesn't sound ideal for us, but it must drive business, make it feel more like you have to ""show up"" like reality five minutes ago, remember? I got one of those chunky black cell phones in 1996-7, and I had a mac that was online, but online was not ubiquitous because it didn't have the bandwidth. Okay, ten minutes, that was ten minutes ago.I hate that about Ace, you have to check back daily if you’re wanting something special. CL
- Thread starter
- #58
The planter is working well so far, and I'm planning on altering it a bit for a photoperiod strain next year.
Btw that Oaxaca cross sounds intriguing. Where are the seeds from? That’s a new one on me. CL
It looks like Ace has regular Purple Satellite seeds in stock again.
Wow! That some next level build, right there Mr. Fancy Pants.Here's how I made mine. Slits in the Top & small 1/8" holes around the bottom.
Love the slits in the top and nice clean connections for water in/out. Have you posted that over in SIP Club? Don't recall seeing it before and that's quite the impressive container and it would be good to have a record of it over there.