Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[Conradino23]

I've tried that too but it never really ups the percent up more than a few points. Maybe if I turned the exhaust fan down, but then I have the heat issues build up because it's an air-cooled hood. But in the winter it's even worse than this, I've had RH down as low as 15% and the plants were healthy--well at least healthier than this lol I can't speak for the landrace Sativas, but this little Indica dominant hybrid cross I have should definitely handle the low humidity better, based on past experience. So the RH wasn't really on my radar, but yeah, waiting for it to cool down a little bit more to try to mitigate that. Though I swear, it seems like the low humidity drives extra trichome production, because even my fan leaves will get trichomes. Been afraid to mess with it too much.

I'm still worried about this Sunshine Mix 4 + EWC mix. I'd hate to think that this mix was too rich, all I added to it was earthworm castings--though it did supposedly have "kelp meal plus rock dusts" too. Thinking maybe just good old over-watering since it was super muddy the first watering, and then once it dried someone recommend I used a surfactant because peatmoss is supposedly so hydrophobic. Well, each 1 gal pot of it accepted a whole solo cup's worth of water, which is a lot more than I usually water a container this size.

Plus then there's the FIM'ing which I don't normally do, so they could just be stressed out in general. I'm trying to get them a little happier before I flip to sex because the indica dominant hybrids aren't feminized, and then I'm going to flip them back basically as soon as I see pistills so the reveg isn't too stressful, and had planned on putting them in 3 gallon pots with the other mix of soil I made--which is basically just this plus Bio-Live, neem-seed meal, and BioLive. Was still hoping to get that soil analyzed before planting into it.

Ok then, you can still do another thing, which is misting them twice a day, before lights are up and soon after they're off or just a minute before that. It'll help the plants with transpiration in veg.

Dropping RH down for indicas in flowering and lowering the temps should result in better trichome production, you're right about that.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Ok then, you can still do another thing, which is misting them twice a day, before lights are up and soon after they're off or just a minute before that. It'll help the plants with transpiration in veg.

Dropping RH down for indicas in flowering and lowering the temps should result in better trichome production, you're right about that.

I think I'll give that a try. You know, at one point on a previous grow, I had what I thought was a magnesium deficiency, and so I decided to foliar feed with epsom salts. That was basically the only time I'd ever foliar fed, and the plants LOVED it. But I just assumed that confirmed my suspicion of a magnesium def. Seems like maybe they just loved the foliar feed! Been meaning to give that more tries, but again, afraid to mess with it; I can see why it's so easy for growers to get locked in habits and die hard practices.

Well, I think I will probably stop with the guess work and get this mix analyzed pretty soon here. The plants are kind of acting as my soil analyzers, but I don't really know what they're telling me. Just a gut feeling that it's lack of aeration and maybe too much nitrogen being released, but I really don't know enough about this stuff to speculate that much. I basically know most of my stuff from Jorge Cervante's book, and I know that what I'm seeing now according to him would be heat stress and nutrient burn, but seeing as the temperatures are dropping and I'm using nothing but Sunshine Mix 4 and EWC plus plain water, I'm not sure anymore.

But they keep growing at least. That's one interesting thing I've noticed here, is that they don't seem stunted at all. A little distressed, but not stunted. In fact for as little light as I've been giving ( my 400 W MH is dimmed to 50% because of the heat ) they're putting on new growth pretty fast. I think this low light plus extreme temperature swings has lead to some pretty substantial stretching though

Anyway, I'm blabbing, but I don't know if I should continue to use these home-mixed soils or buy some pre-bagged stuff to transplant these into. These aren't huge problems but I'm worried about them getting worse. Especially if it's a matter of it being too rich/hot, because the other batch I've got mixed up is way more loaded.

 

[Guy Cavallero]

Sorry, this may be a complete newbie question but I don't mind making a fool of myself as long as I learn from it LOL. So I'm trying to get my head around the idea of sheep manure compost or cow manure compost or chicken manure compost Etc. It was my understanding or, it is my understanding that for our purposes of growing indoors under lights. Manure of whatever type is too hot for our plants to handle. That being said, doesn't the composting itself activate activity within your compost? That being said, what is it that animal composts are derived from that would allow them to be used in our situation and not be too hot? Hopefully that makes sense, I had to get it out of my head while I could LOL.

I'm pretty new to the organic soil aspect of growing, just trying to get some of the basics down as I continue purchasing material for my first soil try.

 

[Van Stank]

Can't really help you much with info on Manure. Definitely not my field of expertise LOL!

 

[bobrown14]

I see my post doesn't quote your quote of me
Looking at it now I just want to make sure you know i wasn't being a dick. BB14 definitely has his shit locked down and has done a tonne of research. In fact going through his journal is why we decided to go organic.

Thanks for the kind words... been away out of country for the last 6 weeks... grow still going! YAY....

What happens when the old plant gets chopped, the root ball will start to decay fairly rapidly. Say a few days is all ... what I usually do is grab the stalk or whats left of it from the old plant and give it a twist and a pull. Usually all that comes out is a small stem and a small amount of soil... toss that in compost and did a little hole for the next plant... good to go.

As mentioned, there's already a significant amount of mycos and bacteria already going.... it's actually very beneficial for the next plant. The soil is alive....

 

[Conradino23]

Sorry, this may be a complete newbie question but I don't mind making a fool of myself as long as I learn from it LOL. So I'm trying to get my head around the idea of sheep manure compost or cow manure compost or chicken manure compost Etc. It was my understanding or, it is my understanding that for our purposes of growing indoors under lights. Manure of whatever type is too hot for our plants to handle. That being said, doesn't the composting itself activate activity within your compost? That being said, what is it that animal composts are derived from that would allow them to be used in our situation and not be too hot? Hopefully that makes sense, I had to get it out of my head while I could LOL.

I'm pretty new to the organic soil aspect of growing, just trying to get some of the basics down as I continue purchasing material for my first soil try.

Let me put it like that, once you know the soil and the amount of it that you'll use, think how big the pots will be, how potent the lights and then decide how much you're gonna use. With better coditions plants will use more nutrients, but much fewer if your conditions are not optimal. I'd tell you that ballpark-wise you shouldn't need more than 2-3 tbs a gallon.

 

[Van Stank]

Let me put it like that, once you know the soil and the amount of it that you'll use, think how big the pots will be, how potent the lights and then decide how much you're gonna use. With better coditions plants will use more nutrients, but much fewer if your conditions are not optimal. I'd tell you that ballpark-wise you shouldn't need more than 2-3 tbs a gallon.

You are talking in the soil Conradino, or are you talking in teas? I know he was originally talking soils so I ask because that seems like a rather small amount of manure. Just want to clear it in my mental image and mental mixing so to speak. Thanks buddy!!

 

[Conradino23]

Yeah in soil to prepare the basic mix.

 

[Van Stank]

Though as I am thinking about in addition to everything else being added, that might be a good starting point to introduce it. Just had to try to imagine the amount in terms of 50 gallon batches of soil.

 

[Conradino23]

Adding it after everything else is better. Get nice organic base (peat I guess is what he has), then up calcium/magnesium. Care to supplement with other necessary minerals (maybe using crushed lava rock or azomite) and then adjust NPK to the right levels. Manure can be used for that as long as it's well comoposted and doesn't contain too much potassium, zinc, sodium, lead or cadmium.

 

[Guy Cavallero]

My base is 1/3 peat, 1/3 rice hulls and 1/3 humic. Couple that with some rock dusts, kelp, crab and Oyster. Azomite is on my list to purchase for supplementation of everything left over lol.

My question was more so, why does the composting manure not cause conditions which are considered " too hot", when manures as a whole are considered too hot to begin with? Or Conradino, as you saying that nothing is "too hot", it's just based on volume used?

 

[Guy Cavallero]

Though as I am thinking about in addition to everything else being added, that might be a good starting point to introduce it. Just had to try to imagine the amount in terms of 50 gallon batches of soil.

Thanks buddy, it was early and I did my best to get my thoughts into words lol.

 

[Conradino23]

My base is 1/3 peat, 1/3 rice hulls and 1/3 humic. Couple that with some rock dusts, kelp, crab and Oyster. Azomite is on my list to purchase for supplementation of everything left over lol.

My question was more so, why does the composting manure not cause conditions which are considered " too hot", when manures as a whole are considered too hot to begin with? Or Conradino, as you saying that nothing is "too hot", it's just based on volume used?

Ah ok, mostly cause ammonia is turned into nitrates by bacteria.

 

[Guy Cavallero]

Ah ok, mostly cause ammonia is turned into nitrates by bacteria.

I see.....thank you!. What do you do for a living?

 

[Conradino23]

I'd better not say for security reasons, I live in a very prohibitionist country

 

[bobrown14]

Sorry, this may be a complete newbie question but I don't mind making a fool of myself as long as I learn from it LOL. So I'm trying to get my head around the idea of sheep manure compost or cow manure compost or chicken manure compost Etc. It was my understanding or, it is my understanding that for our purposes of growing indoors under lights. Manure of whatever type is too hot for our plants to handle. That being said, doesn't the composting itself activate activity within your compost? That being said, what is it that animal composts are derived from that would allow them to be used in our situation and not be too hot? Hopefully that makes sense, I had to get it out of my head while I could LOL.

I'm pretty new to the organic soil aspect of growing, just trying to get some of the basics down as I continue purchasing material for my first soil try.

Anay manure needs to be composted prior to planting in. Sometimes or many times you see farmers spread manure on a newly harvested field... or in the very early spring the manure will be spread on a fallow field and left there. The manure usually has been mucked out of the stalls and piled up and it will already start composting at that point. They the farmer will spread it out on the fields and let it finish composting prior to planting.

For what we do, any manure also needs to be composted and the compost pile needs to get hot for a few weeks. There is one exception and that is rabbit poop, which is actually better than cow/sheep/chicken manure from an NPK view. This you can top dress or add into the soil mix as part of the humus portion. I usually top dress with it. Rabbit poop can also be composted.

So to answer your question about manures being too hot for direct use - yes WAY too hot.

What happens is the nitrogen in the poop is used by the micro-organisms to break down the manure. During that process the nitrogen is fixed in that plants cant use it, and there are temp spikes at that point as well. Once the manure in broken down, that nitrogen is release back to the soil and additional nitrogen made by the micro-organisms is also released.

Some manures are better than others.... they all benefit from composting, as does your kitchen waste (no-dairy and non-fat).

This is a very very good topic and a good question. Understanding composting will start you on a life journey of successful gardening. I credit all of our success to learning this craft a very long time ago. We are still perfecting our processes. I built my first compost bin over 40 years ago... been composting ever since.

"Get your compost dialed in, and there's nothing much to worry about." CC

 

[Timmo]

I've tried that too but it never really ups the percent up more than a few points.

I suggest doing both the damp towel and the bowl of water, and let the towel hang into the bowl so it wicks up water and stays damp. Point a circulation fan at the towel, and you have a very basic swamp cooler. You should see a good bit of both cooling and humidity increase. Lowish humidity is fine during flowering, but your plants will be happier in veg if you can get more moisture in the air--every little bit helps.

 

[Guy Cavallero]

Anay manure needs to be composted prior to planting in. Sometimes or many times you see farmers spread manure on a newly harvested field... or in the very early spring the manure will be spread on a fallow field and left there. The manure usually has been mucked out of the stalls and piled up and it will already start composting at that point. They the farmer will spread it out on the fields and let it finish composting prior to planting.

For what we do, any manure also needs to be composted and the compost pile needs to get hot for a few weeks. There is one exception and that is rabbit poop, which is actually better than cow/sheep/chicken manure from an NPK view. This you can top dress or add into the soil mix as part of the humus portion. I usually top dress with it. Rabbit poop can also be composted.

So to answer your question about manures being too hot for direct use - yes WAY too hot.

What happens is the nitrogen in the poop is used by the micro-organisms to break down the manure. During that process the nitrogen is fixed in that plants cant use it, and there are temp spikes at that point as well. Once the manure in broken down, that nitrogen is release back to the soil and additional nitrogen made by the micro-organisms is also released.

Some manures are better than others.... they all benefit from composting, as does your kitchen waste (no-dairy and non-fat).

This is a very very good topic and a good question. Understanding composting will start you on a life journey of successful gardening. I credit all of our success to learning this craft a very long time ago. We are still perfecting our processes. I built my first compost bin over 40 years ago... been composting ever since.

"Get your compost dialed in, and there's nothing much to worry about." CC

That is a great answer my friend.....thank you! Obviously I've seen the muck spreading on local fields. I didn't really put 2 and 2 together til you said that. No space to compost yet, but our town does give away free compost every spring. I'll try my hand at it next year maybe. What are some key ingredients to get it started the best way possible?

 

[bobrown14]

That is a great answer my friend.....thank you! Obviously I've seen the muck spreading on local fields. I didn't really put 2 and 2 together til you said that. No space to compost yet, but our town does give away free compost every spring. I'll try my hand at it next year maybe. What are some key ingredients to get it started the best way possible?

Very very easy... kitchen scraps from veggies and fruits and most anything not dairy and not meat. So mainly veggie scraps from cooking.

If outdoor gardening of course all the plant matter that is dead at the end of the season. Careful with tomato seeds... hahahaha they grow really really great after kicking back in the compost pile for a few months.

Reason no fats/meats/dairy = smell/flies/vermin are attracted to them... thank me later!

You'd be surprised how small your garbage bag becomes every week...

Take advantage of the give a way compost. It's likely Leaf Mold from leaf collection.. which is a GREAT soil amendment. It's not the end all you need to amend that compost to get a balanced soil mix but its a great input for sure and FREE.

 

[Timmo]

Guy, be aware that different manures require different amounts of time to become usable. I don't know the various times other than that rabbit takes zero time, as Bobrown noted, and that donkey manure stays hot for over a year, which I found out the hard way. You'll want to do a little research on whatever manures you end up using.

Regarding your city's free compost: A lot of municipal compost has bits of plastic and other garbage in it. Not saying yours does, but take a close look at it before you use it.