Bud Washing

Well, I'm not sure what works the best, because I haven't done it all.

But what I do is 3 five gallon buckets (4 if using peroxide) of water that is probably 65 degrees, as it's in a large barrel in my warehouse.

I put a bunch of buds in and gently agitate them by moving them slowly around in the water. Often I'll hold large stems and dunk them in and out. I try not to rub them against each other too much, but to move them around in the water.

I repeat this in the 3 buckets and let them drip off before I hang them.

Letting them soak would probably accomplish the same thing.

BTW, I'm looking into using sulfur dioxide ( Potassium Metabisulfite) in a bud wahs for moldy buds. SO2 is used extensively in winemaking when the winemaker wants to use a certain type of yeast. The SO2 kills off all naturally occurring wild yeasts in fresh grapes, leaving a blank slate for the winemaker to use whatever yeast he desires for the fermentation process.

There is a downside to this, namely that some people are allergic to sulfites....but such a technique might save many harvests from the dreaded rot and PM.

>>>Letting them soak would probably accomplish the same thing.

Thanks for clearing that up Doc.

>>>The SO2 kills off all naturally occurring wild yeasts in fresh grapes

This is interesting. Are the spores found in bud going to be affected the same way as the wild yeast?
 
These aren't the best photos - but you can get the idea. They were taken right after the wash. If anyone wants to see tric shots, I can post more under microscope.

These were washed very aggressively, without much care if anything fell off, or was lost. I think I still have some trics left.

Keep em green, and wash em clean!

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Wow Carestaker, your nugz look great! From my point of view, it looks like you didn't lose any trics, but it looks like you lost most of the amber pistils and your buds do look visibly cleaner than many other people's buds. Thanks for sharing your experience with us!
 
Wow Carestaker, your nugz look great! From my point of view, it looks like you didn't lose any trics, but it looks like you lost most of the amber pistils and your buds do look visibly cleaner than many other people's buds. Thanks for sharing your experience with us!

Thanks Kindly! The plant was pulled a bit earlier than I wanted, so they weren't very amber to begin with. The outer layer is all late foxtail growth, and underneath that is a core of red pistols, right to the center. I know this, only because I pulled the softball sized top bud apart to keep it from molding.

In my experience, only a few of the pistols fall off after the wash. When I look in the wash bucket, I find a dozen or two, per plant. Some could just be detritus.

After the wash, the pistols do typically brighten and seem to become more pliable. I don't know if others here have had the same experience, but if so, please share.
Also, under the microscope, after the cure, all of the pistols seem to appear more crystalline - but this could be anything - even a change in the gear that I use to look at my plants. I have some unwashed buds from the same plant, and I'll go get a pic, and post it up, FWIW.

Edit, I am mistaken - all of her buds were washed, my apologies. I had some from LH, that I forgot to toss into the bucket.
 
Yeah...I saw a few triches on those buds. Upper right on the last photo, and a few others.

Well played, and thank you very kindly. :Namaste:

Thanks, Hiker, great thread, hope posting this here is OK!

Similar looking bud just before chop.

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Here is a picture of my initial setup and all I did was try to get the second rinse bucket a bit warmer (~100f) and the third bucket a bit colder (~50f) as I wanted to also duplicate the blanching process to brighten colors. Knowing the resins are susceptible to more extreme temps I only rinsed in the third bucket for about 10 seconds to shock it back down, and let them drip. After they dripped for a few mins, I put them in the quick cure drying rack.

great post!

My first time washing I made my second bucket the "warm" bucket, but I switched it to the first one and prefer that now. It could be cognitive dissonance in action, but it seems like having the cleaning solution warm made work better.

washing just makes so much sense i couldn't see why anyone would ever do it any other way once u know about it, simply based off this quote im all in 100% i don't like smoking "stuff" in my meds and the wash rids it!!!!!!!!!!!

In most situations this is true. There is still a cost/benefit consideration to be made. If you're producing for profit for example, the extra time needed to add this to the harvest process may not make economic sense based how much of a premium, if any, you will get for the washed vs unwashed buds.

There is absolutely no way I'll smoke unwashed buds, given the choice.

Really? I'm not there yet. While I don't LIKE to smoke other bud, I don't want to be rude when someone offers. I have declined some offers and made other excuses, but sometimes I want to try out the bud to see what they are buying. :blalol:

As you pointed out, they're smoother and far less harsh on the throat.

This is THE reason I will ALWAYS wash MY personal buds. I'm still unsure if I will wash the entire next crop.

Thanks, Hiker, great thread, hope posting this here is OK!

Thank YOU for the great post!

You're welcome. Not only is it OK to post on this thread, it's what I want more than anything. If you have thoughts on the subject, share! :Namaste:
 
Yeah...I saw a few triches on those buds. Upper right on the last photo, and a few others.

I personally want to see a lab analysis done on the effect of the THC content when washed. There has to be SOME kind of loss in potency.

Other than that you are 100% right. I will always wash my harvest from now on. I wouldn't eat a tomato right from the garden. LOL

There are many old school growers who would freak out if I told them to wash their buds. I wouldn't DARE bring it up to them since they taught me all I know and grow KILLER dank. I would have to have proof to back up this theory, and convince them they are losing ZERO potency. Since I am "young pup" to them they would laugh me out of the room with it right now. These are people I could NEVER question, "respect your elders" takes on a whole new meaning when they taught you everything you know about growing the "kind".

Losing a little potency or not, I'm convinced. Can anyone in a legal state do a gas chromatography test on the THC content before and after a wash for me? I have some old men to harass if so!!! LOL :high-five: Thanks for the knowledge Doc Bud!!!

Peace and Love,
Chaotic
 
There has to be SOME kind of loss in potency.

Why? The compounds were after are not water soluble. Let's assume the plants are very dirty. If we remove a few richomes, but also get most of the dirt, potency is probably the same. If you lost a few trichomes, you probably lost some mass from the dirt as well, so your THC/g may not be affected. Honestly, There is little, if any, impact on potency. As you allude to below. If you can't tell without lab equipment, then obviously potency is NOT affected much.

Can anyone in a legal state do a gas chromatography test on the THC content before and after a wash for me?

You can't test the same sample twice. There are lots of labs around for testing Cannabis, but you don't get the sample back. You COULD test a washed and unwashed part of the same plant. While I didn't use lab testing, I did the same testing "in the field". Washing does not seem to affect potency at all, but greatly increases the quality of the buds/smoke.

Unfortunately, testing is not cheap. I plan to get some of my strains tested eventually, but it probably won't be for another 6 months or a year. Then I will be doing the exact test your asking about, but I'm not testing to find a change in potency. I'm more interested in the other tests for the various contaminants (mold, chemicals, etc). I know my stuff is already pretty clean, but I'm curious how much of a difference this process makes.
 
Why? The compounds were after are not water soluble. Let's assume the plants are very dirty. If we remove a few richomes, but also get most of the dirt, potency is probably the same. If you lost a few trichomes, you probably lost some mass from the dirt as well, so your THC/g may not be affected. Honestly, There is little, if any, impact on potency. As you allude to below. If you can't tell without lab equipment, then obviously potency is NOT affected much.



You can't test the same sample twice. There are lots of labs around for testing Cannabis, but you don't get the sample back. You COULD test a washed and unwashed part of the same plant. While I didn't use lab testing, I did the same testing "in the field". Washing does not seem to affect potency at all, but greatly increases the quality of the buds/smoke.

Unfortunately, testing is not cheap. I plan to get some of my strains tested eventually, but it probably won't be for another 6 months or a year. Then I will be doing the exact test your asking about, but I'm not testing to find a change in potency. I'm more interested in the other tests for the various contaminants (mold, chemicals, etc). I know my stuff is already pretty clean, but I'm curious how much of a difference this process makes.

This is the true comparison.

I think we can all agree that improved taste and smoothness are far more obvious to a smoker than a little less potency. I have several strains onhand and I don't think I could tell you which one is stronger, but I can easily tell you how each one tastes or smokes. All the great variety in strains is ultimately about aroma and flavor, or growth habit, rarely potency.

Washed bud will sell faster than unwashed, and people will come back for more. :cheesygrinsmiley: Right?
 
Not to mention that the same logic used when determining "loss of potency" would also apply to manicuring buds as snipping off those smaller sugar leaves will undoubtedly also lead to removal of many pistils and possibly calyxes, yet we all still snip them off anyway to make for a smoother smoke and better flavor. Washing is just the next episode in our quest for that ultimate palate pleasing flavor.
 
Why? The compounds were after are not water soluble. Let's assume the plants are very dirty. If we remove a few richomes, but also get most of the dirt, potency is probably the same. If you lost a few trichomes, you probably lost some mass from the dirt as well, so your THC/g may not be affected. Honestly, There is little, if any, impact on potency. As you allude to below. If you can't tell without lab equipment, then obviously potency is NOT affected much.

THC is water soluble, and at around 3.3% per liter at room temperature to be exact. Go ahead and bump that up, as YOU warm it up. Lemon juice is also a very powerful solvent. I have used it in the manufacturing of "spice" and the ease to break down chemicals JWH-018 and the such is phenomenal. So even though THC may not be very soluble in water, you people are adding lemon juice to the mix, and even heating it up in some cases. Kind of hard to make me look like an idiot when the science is on my side... I think you've been in that "basement" too long. Washing may as well be "stripping". In many cases in this industry that we all know and love the two terms co-relate quite often. If water and lemon juice were not solvents, this method wouldn't remove a thing from your precious flowers, and they would come out exactly the same way they went in.

I also understand that THC "testing" is expensive. I was just hoping this new community I joined consisted of more than just basement and closet growers. Is it unfair for me to think that someone on this board has money? Looking at Colorado, I would think not.

I will be using this technique from now on, but I know there is a loss, there HAS TO BE if science has it's say. Is it going to be substantial?, probably not. Is anyone going to notice the difference in strength, I personally wouldn't think so, but that's why I asked. Not as much for myself, but to make my ease of passing on the "knowledge" to some hard headed old men a little easier. For them, myself and many others "seeing is believing". The pictures are good enough for me, but nothing would ease EVERYONE's minds better than a high dollar bud analysis!! THIS THREAD NEEDS MORE LOVE!! KEEP IT GOING!!!

Peace an Love,
Chaotic
 
Is anyone going to notice the difference in strength, I personally wouldn't think so, but that's why I asked. Not as much for myself, but to make my ease of passing on the "knowledge" to some hard headed old men a little easier. For them, myself and many others "seeing is believing". The pictures are good enough for me, but nothing would ease EVERYONE's minds better than a high dollar bud analysis!! THIS THREAD NEEDS MORE LOVE!! KEEP IT GOING!!!

Peace an Love,
Chaotic

There ya go. :cheesygrinsmiley:

If you detected an impatient tone from anyone, it was directed past you to to the "hard headed old men", of which I am one. :cheesygrinsmiley: Wash some, offer it to them without saying anything about it, and see what they think of your smoke. I guarantee there will be NO mention of potency - it'll be about the flavor and smoothness.

Welcome to 420Mag, complete with it's own hard headed. :Namaste:
 
There ya go. :cheesygrinsmiley:
Welcome to 420Mag, complete with it's own hard headed. :Namaste:

Thanks for the love Graytail, I just noticed your sig. I've been contemplating using a set-up close to that for my new indoor grow. I really want to grow only 4 plants (avoid a felony / personal anyway) and I like the description. I'm going to jump on over and show that thread another sub.

Peace and Love,
Chaotic
 
Hello 420, I am here with my final preliminary test on Doc Bud's Bud Washing method.

To start off, I would like to thank Doc and Hiker, as they are the backbone of this thread and this method.

This time around I wanted to imitate this technique as close as possible, so I added a 3rd bucket and varied the temps. In the 1st bucket, 30F Distilled Water with Baking Soda & Lemon Juice. In the 2nd, 27F Distilled Water. And the 3rd with 20F Distilled Water.

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20140123_195003_121.jpg
20140123_1952011.jpg
20140123_1952081.jpg


Now for this test my main goals were to observe any substantial differences in loss of final yield and overall appearance of large colas.

I started with 3x 15-25g colas to work with, and 3 more that that have similar weights that will act as a sample group.

20140126_091806.jpg


The starting weights for all the samples are as follows:

Washed Buds

1. 17.4g
2. 20.9g
3. 20.4g

UnWashed Test Sample

1. 17.7g
2. 20.4g
3. 20.4g

These samples were agitated in each bucket for 30 seconds, while being completely submerged.

Then let each sample drip dry before placing them onto my drying rack. Temps are kept at 65-70F and RH is kept at 40-50%.

Now for the buds themselves. The washed are on the right. I do notice that the washed bud's pistils are more flush with the shape of the bud, but overall, the wash opens up colas that otherwise might be dense nugs after cure.

20140126_091832.jpg
20140126_091944.jpg
20140126_092004.jpg
20140126_092121.jpg
20140126_092139.jpg
20140126_092147.jpg


Secondly, the washed buds dry MUST faster than the others. It literally took 2-3 days before the buds were nearly rock solid on the outer layer of calyxes. The unwashed buds still contained moisture.

Now knowing this fact, you can now assume that weight should be substantially less in proportion to the unwashed counterparts. They developed a much more airy texture, BUT the curing process did start ti kick off faster than the unwahsed buds. Only a couple days after curing, the washed buds are noticeably tastier and less harsh than the buds still curing in the jars.

Here are the final weights for the test samples:

Washed Buds

1. 4.8g
2. 5.7g
3. 5.7g

UnWashed Buds

1. 4.6g
2. 4.9g
3. Accidentally got mixed with the rest of the harvest.

Looking at the numbers, the differences are not that drastic, at least not enough for me not to try and fully implement this method into my future harvests. THE ONLY thing I need to perfect before I start washing all my harvests is the drying process. I need to find that sweet spot in temp and RH in order to prolong the drying process. Ideally , a 1-2 week drying process is what I am looking for to get the best quality in appearance with these washed buds.

Here is a comparison shot of dried washed buds and random dried colas that were not washed. NOTE:The nugs in the pics are broken down from the samples, so weights will be less.

Washed
20140128_175211.jpg
20140128_175217.jpg
20140128_175222.jpg
20140128_175229.jpg


UnWashed
20140128_1748401.jpg

20140128_174848.jpg
20140128_174859.jpg
20140128_174904.jpg


I will eventually update this thread again once I get that one down ;)

To conclude, I have learned that washing your buds DOES in fact make your smoke smoother, and DOES in fact speed up the drying and possibly the curing process. I have not (personally) noticed any affect in potency, neither has 3 other blind test subjects. But the most important bit of insight that convinced me was when Doc Bud portrayed the future:

DocBud said:
Here's what's going to happen in the near future: Now that everyone is growing, baking, smoking, vaping, dabbing.....you're going to hear a story about someone getting very sick from edibles because of pathogens and/or pesticides on the product. This is going to lead to a "crack-down" and open the door to the public health inspector certifying grow ops and laws that allow ONLY produce grown under the aegis of the Public Health Department can be sold in dispensaries, etc.

This applies to me, and many others. Forget the potential loss of trichomes...THAT^ right there should be reason enough to start more healthier, more sanitary practices when cultivating our herbs...we do it with our produce! So to get a head start on a positive Cannabis Reformation, I will pass down this practice to whomever I meet:Namaste:
 
Hello 420, I am here with my final preliminary test on Doc Bud's Bud Washing method.

To start off, I would like to thank Doc and Hiker, as they are the backbone of this thread and this method.

This time around I wanted to imitate this technique as close as possible, so I added a 3rd bucket and varied the temps. In the 1st bucket, 30F Distilled Water with Baking Soda & Lemon Juice. In the 2nd, 27F Distilled Water. And the 3rd with 20F Distilled Water.

20140123_1947291.jpg
20140123_195003_121.jpg
20140123_1952011.jpg
20140123_1952081.jpg


Now for this test my main goals were to observe any substantial differences in loss of final yield and overall appearance of large colas.

I started with 3x 15-25g colas to work with, and 3 more that that have similar weights that will act as a sample group.

20140126_091806.jpg


The starting weights for all the samples are as follows:

Washed Buds

1. 17.4g
2. 20.9g
3. 20.4g

UnWashed Test Sample

1. 17.7g
2. 20.4g
3. 20.4g

These samples were agitated in each bucket for 30 seconds, while being completely submerged.

Then let each sample drip dry before placing them onto my drying rack. Temps are kept at 65-70F and RH is kept at 40-50%.

Now for the buds themselves. The washed are on the right. I do notice that the washed bud's pistils are more flush with the shape of the bud, but overall, the wash opens up colas that otherwise might be dense nugs after cure.

20140126_091832.jpg
20140126_091944.jpg
20140126_092004.jpg
20140126_092121.jpg
20140126_092139.jpg
20140126_092147.jpg


Secondly, the washed buds dry MUST faster than the others. It literally took 2-3 days before the buds were nearly rock solid on the outer layer of calyxes. The unwashed buds still contained moisture.

Now knowing this fact, you can now assume that weight should be substantially less in proportion to the unwashed counterparts. They developed a much more airy texture, BUT the curing process did start ti kick off faster than the unwahsed buds. Only a couple days after curing, the washed buds are noticeably tastier and less harsh than the buds still curing in the jars.

Here are the final weights for the test samples:

Washed Buds

1. 4.8g
2. 5.7g
3. 5.7g

UnWashed Buds

1. 4.6g
2. 4.9g
3. Accidentally got mixed with the rest of the harvest.

Looking at the numbers, the differences are not that drastic, at least not enough for me not to try and fully implement this method into my future harvests. THE ONLY thing I need to perfect before I start washing all my harvests is the drying process. I need to find that sweet spot in temp and RH in order to prolong the drying process. Ideally , a 1-2 week drying process is what I am looking for to get the best quality in appearance with these washed buds.

Here is a comparison shot of dried washed buds and random dried colas that were not washed. NOTE:The nugs in the pics are broken down from the samples, so weights will be less.

Washed
20140128_175211.jpg
20140128_175217.jpg
20140128_175222.jpg
20140128_175229.jpg


UnWashed
20140128_1748401.jpg

20140128_174848.jpg
20140128_174859.jpg
20140128_174904.jpg


I will eventually update this thread again once I get that one down ;)

To conclude, I have learned that washing your buds DOES in fact make your smoke smoother, and DOES in fact speed up the drying and possibly the curing process. I have not (personally) noticed any affect in potency, neither has 3 other blind test subjects. But the most important bit of insight that convinced me was when Doc Bud portrayed the future:



This applies to me, and many others. Forget the potential loss of trichomes...THAT^ right there should be reason enough to start more healthier, more sanitary practices when cultivating our herbs...we do it with our produce! So to get a head start on a positive Cannabis Reformation, I will pass down this practice to whomever I meet:Namaste:

Great experiment, thank you!
 
excellent review AG. being as though I plan to chop in about 5 days and plan to wash my entire harvest, is there any immediate advice you can give other than what you've already blessed us with? being aware of my grow from subbing, I think this might be a quick second chance to immediately apply your learning and we can both reap the knowledge. I plan to use DOC's 4 bucket method with RO water. I still have to figure out the conversion of H2O2 as I have 29% and he calls for 3% to be used. I will also be dialing in the hot bucket with a fish tank heater so I can land right where I wanna within reason.

I am slightly concerned about the loss of hardness on the outside of the nug, but time spent in the jars should mitigate loss of moisture.

anyways, thanks again. hopefully one day our dreams can merge under the same roof.
 
excellent review AG. being as though I plan to chop in about 5 days and plan to wash my entire harvest, is there any immediate advice you can give other than what you've already blessed us with? being aware of my grow from subbing, I think this might be a quick second chance to immediately apply your learning and we can both reap the knowledge. I plan to use DOC's 4 bucket method with RO water. I still have to figure out the conversion of H2O2 as I have 29% and he calls for 3% to be used. I will also be dialing in the hot bucket with a fish tank heater so I can land right where I wanna within reason.

I am slightly concerned about the loss of hardness on the outside of the nug, but time spent in the jars should mitigate loss of moisture.

anyways, thanks again. hopefully one day our dreams can merge under the same roof.

I've been washing, hanign and trimming for about10 days straight.

I don't use a varied temp wash....but others do and LOVE it.
I dry in 65 degrees 50/60 rH. I start off at 50 and let it creep up to 60 after about 3 days. My stuff hangs for a week, minimum.

For the peroxide, use 10%.
 
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