FWIW, I've been tossing a few branches in the first bucket, and then moving them along the line, after 2-3 minutes of being submerged in each wash. Total of maybe 4-10 minutes submerged, depending on timing. I go at them pretty hard in the wash.
Bud Washing
- Thread starter Hiker
- Start date
AfricanGrower
Well-Known Member
>>>Letting them soak would probably accomplish the same thing.
Thanks for clearing that up Doc.
>>>The SO2 kills off all naturally occurring wild yeasts in fresh grapes
This is interesting. Are the spores found in bud going to be affected the same way as the wild yeast?
Absolutely. The K-meta (so2) kills it all.
These aren't the best photos - but you can get the idea. They were taken right after the wash. If anyone wants to see tric shots, I can post more under microscope.
These were washed very aggressively, without much care if anything fell off, or was lost. I think I still have some trics left.
Keep em green, and wash em clean!
These were washed very aggressively, without much care if anything fell off, or was lost. I think I still have some trics left.
Keep em green, and wash em clean!
Yeah...I saw a few triches on those buds. Upper right on the last photo, and a few others.
Skybound
Well-Known Member
Wow Carestaker, your nugz look great! From my point of view, it looks like you didn't lose any trics, but it looks like you lost most of the amber pistils and your buds do look visibly cleaner than many other people's buds. Thanks for sharing your experience with us!
Thanks Kindly! The plant was pulled a bit earlier than I wanted, so they weren't very amber to begin with. The outer layer is all late foxtail growth, and underneath that is a core of red pistols, right to the center. I know this, only because I pulled the softball sized top bud apart to keep it from molding.
In my experience, only a few of the pistols fall off after the wash. When I look in the wash bucket, I find a dozen or two, per plant. Some could just be detritus.
After the wash, the pistols do typically brighten and seem to become more pliable. I don't know if others here have had the same experience, but if so, please share.
Also, under the microscope, after the cure, all of the pistols seem to appear more crystalline - but this could be anything - even a change in the gear that I use to look at my plants. I have some unwashed buds from the same plant, and I'll go get a pic, and post it up, FWIW.
Edit, I am mistaken - all of her buds were washed, my apologies. I had some from LH, that I forgot to toss into the bucket.
Well played, and thank you very kindly.
Thanks, Hiker, great thread, hope posting this here is OK!
Similar looking bud just before chop.
- Thread starter
- #129
great post!
My first time washing I made my second bucket the "warm" bucket, but I switched it to the first one and prefer that now. It could be cognitive dissonance in action, but it seems like having the cleaning solution warm made work better.
In most situations this is true. There is still a cost/benefit consideration to be made. If you're producing for profit for example, the extra time needed to add this to the harvest process may not make economic sense based how much of a premium, if any, you will get for the washed vs unwashed buds.
Really? I'm not there yet. While I don't LIKE to smoke other bud, I don't want to be rude when someone offers. I have declined some offers and made other excuses, but sometimes I want to try out the bud to see what they are buying.
This is THE reason I will ALWAYS wash MY personal buds. I'm still unsure if I will wash the entire next crop.
Thank YOU for the great post!
You're welcome. Not only is it OK to post on this thread, it's what I want more than anything. If you have thoughts on the subject, share!
CHAOTIC HAZE
New Member
I personally want to see a lab analysis done on the effect of the THC content when washed. There has to be SOME kind of loss in potency.
Other than that you are 100% right. I will always wash my harvest from now on. I wouldn't eat a tomato right from the garden. LOL
There are many old school growers who would freak out if I told them to wash their buds. I wouldn't DARE bring it up to them since they taught me all I know and grow KILLER dank. I would have to have proof to back up this theory, and convince them they are losing ZERO potency. Since I am "young pup" to them they would laugh me out of the room with it right now. These are people I could NEVER question, "respect your elders" takes on a whole new meaning when they taught you everything you know about growing the "kind".
Losing a little potency or not, I'm convinced. Can anyone in a legal state do a gas chromatography test on the THC content before and after a wash for me? I have some old men to harass if so!!! LOL
Thanks for the knowledge Doc Bud!!!Peace and Love,
Chaotic
- Thread starter
- #131
Why? The compounds were after are not water soluble. Let's assume the plants are very dirty. If we remove a few richomes, but also get most of the dirt, potency is probably the same. If you lost a few trichomes, you probably lost some mass from the dirt as well, so your THC/g may not be affected. Honestly, There is little, if any, impact on potency. As you allude to below. If you can't tell without lab equipment, then obviously potency is NOT affected much.
You can't test the same sample twice. There are lots of labs around for testing Cannabis, but you don't get the sample back. You COULD test a washed and unwashed part of the same plant. While I didn't use lab testing, I did the same testing "in the field". Washing does not seem to affect potency at all, but greatly increases the quality of the buds/smoke.
Unfortunately, testing is not cheap. I plan to get some of my strains tested eventually, but it probably won't be for another 6 months or a year. Then I will be doing the exact test your asking about, but I'm not testing to find a change in potency. I'm more interested in the other tests for the various contaminants (mold, chemicals, etc). I know my stuff is already pretty clean, but I'm curious how much of a difference this process makes.
This is the true comparison.
I think we can all agree that improved taste and smoothness are far more obvious to a smoker than a little less potency. I have several strains onhand and I don't think I could tell you which one is stronger, but I can easily tell you how each one tastes or smokes. All the great variety in strains is ultimately about aroma and flavor, or growth habit, rarely potency.
Washed bud will sell faster than unwashed, and people will come back for more.
Right?
Skybound
Well-Known Member
Not to mention that the same logic used when determining "loss of potency" would also apply to manicuring buds as snipping off those smaller sugar leaves will undoubtedly also lead to removal of many pistils and possibly calyxes, yet we all still snip them off anyway to make for a smoother smoke and better flavor. Washing is just the next episode in our quest for that ultimate palate pleasing flavor.
CHAOTIC HAZE
New Member
THC is water soluble, and at around 3.3% per liter at room temperature to be exact. Go ahead and bump that up, as YOU warm it up. Lemon juice is also a very powerful solvent. I have used it in the manufacturing of "spice" and the ease to break down chemicals JWH-018 and the such is phenomenal. So even though THC may not be very soluble in water, you people are adding lemon juice to the mix, and even heating it up in some cases. Kind of hard to make me look like an idiot when the science is on my side... I think you've been in that "basement" too long. Washing may as well be "stripping". In many cases in this industry that we all know and love the two terms co-relate quite often. If water and lemon juice were not solvents, this method wouldn't remove a thing from your precious flowers, and they would come out exactly the same way they went in.
I also understand that THC "testing" is expensive. I was just hoping this new community I joined consisted of more than just basement and closet growers. Is it unfair for me to think that someone on this board has money? Looking at Colorado, I would think not.
I will be using this technique from now on, but I know there is a loss, there HAS TO BE if science has it's say. Is it going to be substantial?, probably not. Is anyone going to notice the difference in strength, I personally wouldn't think so, but that's why I asked. Not as much for myself, but to make my ease of passing on the "knowledge" to some hard headed old men a little easier. For them, myself and many others "seeing is believing". The pictures are good enough for me, but nothing would ease EVERYONE's minds better than a high dollar bud analysis!! THIS THREAD NEEDS MORE LOVE!! KEEP IT GOING!!!
Peace an Love,
Chaotic
There ya go.
If you detected an impatient tone from anyone, it was directed past you to to the "hard headed old men", of which I am one.
Wash some, offer it to them without saying anything about it, and see what they think of your smoke. I guarantee there will be NO mention of potency - it'll be about the flavor and smoothness.Welcome to 420Mag, complete with it's own hard headed.
CHAOTIC HAZE
New Member
There ya go.
Welcome to 420Mag, complete with it's own hard headed.
Thanks for the love Graytail, I just noticed your sig. I've been contemplating using a set-up close to that for my new indoor grow. I really want to grow only 4 plants (avoid a felony / personal anyway) and I like the description. I'm going to jump on over and show that thread another sub.
Peace and Love,
Chaotic
AfricanGrower
Well-Known Member
Hello 420, I am here with my final preliminary test on Doc Bud's Bud Washing method.
To start off, I would like to thank Doc and Hiker, as they are the backbone of this thread and this method.
This time around I wanted to imitate this technique as close as possible, so I added a 3rd bucket and varied the temps. In the 1st bucket, 30F Distilled Water with Baking Soda & Lemon Juice. In the 2nd, 27F Distilled Water. And the 3rd with 20F Distilled Water.
Now for this test my main goals were to observe any substantial differences in loss of final yield and overall appearance of large colas.
I started with 3x 15-25g colas to work with, and 3 more that that have similar weights that will act as a sample group.
The starting weights for all the samples are as follows:
Washed Buds
1. 17.4g
2. 20.9g
3. 20.4g
UnWashed Test Sample
1. 17.7g
2. 20.4g
3. 20.4g
These samples were agitated in each bucket for 30 seconds, while being completely submerged.
Then let each sample drip dry before placing them onto my drying rack. Temps are kept at 65-70F and RH is kept at 40-50%.
Now for the buds themselves. The washed are on the right. I do notice that the washed bud's pistils are more flush with the shape of the bud, but overall, the wash opens up colas that otherwise might be dense nugs after cure.
Secondly, the washed buds dry MUST faster than the others. It literally took 2-3 days before the buds were nearly rock solid on the outer layer of calyxes. The unwashed buds still contained moisture.
Now knowing this fact, you can now assume that weight should be substantially less in proportion to the unwashed counterparts. They developed a much more airy texture, BUT the curing process did start ti kick off faster than the unwahsed buds. Only a couple days after curing, the washed buds are noticeably tastier and less harsh than the buds still curing in the jars.
Here are the final weights for the test samples:
Washed Buds
1. 4.8g
2. 5.7g
3. 5.7g
UnWashed Buds
1. 4.6g
2. 4.9g
3. Accidentally got mixed with the rest of the harvest.
Looking at the numbers, the differences are not that drastic, at least not enough for me not to try and fully implement this method into my future harvests. THE ONLY thing I need to perfect before I start washing all my harvests is the drying process. I need to find that sweet spot in temp and RH in order to prolong the drying process. Ideally , a 1-2 week drying process is what I am looking for to get the best quality in appearance with these washed buds.
Here is a comparison shot of dried washed buds and random dried colas that were not washed. NOTE:The nugs in the pics are broken down from the samples, so weights will be less.
Washed
UnWashed
I will eventually update this thread again once I get that one down
To conclude, I have learned that washing your buds DOES in fact make your smoke smoother, and DOES in fact speed up the drying and possibly the curing process. I have not (personally) noticed any affect in potency, neither has 3 other blind test subjects. But the most important bit of insight that convinced me was when Doc Bud portrayed the future:
This applies to me, and many others. Forget the potential loss of trichomes...THAT^ right there should be reason enough to start more healthier, more sanitary practices when cultivating our herbs...we do it with our produce! So to get a head start on a positive Cannabis Reformation, I will pass down this practice to whomever I meet
To start off, I would like to thank Doc and Hiker, as they are the backbone of this thread and this method.
This time around I wanted to imitate this technique as close as possible, so I added a 3rd bucket and varied the temps. In the 1st bucket, 30F Distilled Water with Baking Soda & Lemon Juice. In the 2nd, 27F Distilled Water. And the 3rd with 20F Distilled Water.
Now for this test my main goals were to observe any substantial differences in loss of final yield and overall appearance of large colas.
I started with 3x 15-25g colas to work with, and 3 more that that have similar weights that will act as a sample group.
The starting weights for all the samples are as follows:
Washed Buds
1. 17.4g
2. 20.9g
3. 20.4g
UnWashed Test Sample
1. 17.7g
2. 20.4g
3. 20.4g
These samples were agitated in each bucket for 30 seconds, while being completely submerged.
Then let each sample drip dry before placing them onto my drying rack. Temps are kept at 65-70F and RH is kept at 40-50%.
Now for the buds themselves. The washed are on the right. I do notice that the washed bud's pistils are more flush with the shape of the bud, but overall, the wash opens up colas that otherwise might be dense nugs after cure.
Secondly, the washed buds dry MUST faster than the others. It literally took 2-3 days before the buds were nearly rock solid on the outer layer of calyxes. The unwashed buds still contained moisture.
Now knowing this fact, you can now assume that weight should be substantially less in proportion to the unwashed counterparts. They developed a much more airy texture, BUT the curing process did start ti kick off faster than the unwahsed buds. Only a couple days after curing, the washed buds are noticeably tastier and less harsh than the buds still curing in the jars.
Here are the final weights for the test samples:
Washed Buds
1. 4.8g
2. 5.7g
3. 5.7g
UnWashed Buds
1. 4.6g
2. 4.9g
3. Accidentally got mixed with the rest of the harvest.
Looking at the numbers, the differences are not that drastic, at least not enough for me not to try and fully implement this method into my future harvests. THE ONLY thing I need to perfect before I start washing all my harvests is the drying process. I need to find that sweet spot in temp and RH in order to prolong the drying process. Ideally , a 1-2 week drying process is what I am looking for to get the best quality in appearance with these washed buds.
Here is a comparison shot of dried washed buds and random dried colas that were not washed. NOTE:The nugs in the pics are broken down from the samples, so weights will be less.
Washed
UnWashed
I will eventually update this thread again once I get that one down
To conclude, I have learned that washing your buds DOES in fact make your smoke smoother, and DOES in fact speed up the drying and possibly the curing process. I have not (personally) noticed any affect in potency, neither has 3 other blind test subjects. But the most important bit of insight that convinced me was when Doc Bud portrayed the future:
DocBud said:
This applies to me, and many others. Forget the potential loss of trichomes...THAT^ right there should be reason enough to start more healthier, more sanitary practices when cultivating our herbs...we do it with our produce! So to get a head start on a positive Cannabis Reformation, I will pass down this practice to whomever I meet
Hello 420, I am here with my final preliminary test on Doc Bud's Bud Washing method.
To start off, I would like to thank Doc and Hiker, as they are the backbone of this thread and this method.
This time around I wanted to imitate this technique as close as possible, so I added a 3rd bucket and varied the temps. In the 1st bucket, 30F Distilled Water with Baking Soda & Lemon Juice. In the 2nd, 27F Distilled Water. And the 3rd with 20F Distilled Water.
Now for this test my main goals were to observe any substantial differences in loss of final yield and overall appearance of large colas.
I started with 3x 15-25g colas to work with, and 3 more that that have similar weights that will act as a sample group.
The starting weights for all the samples are as follows:
Washed Buds
1. 17.4g
2. 20.9g
3. 20.4g
UnWashed Test Sample
1. 17.7g
2. 20.4g
3. 20.4g
These samples were agitated in each bucket for 30 seconds, while being completely submerged.
Then let each sample drip dry before placing them onto my drying rack. Temps are kept at 65-70F and RH is kept at 40-50%.
Now for the buds themselves. The washed are on the right. I do notice that the washed bud's pistils are more flush with the shape of the bud, but overall, the wash opens up colas that otherwise might be dense nugs after cure.
Secondly, the washed buds dry MUST faster than the others. It literally took 2-3 days before the buds were nearly rock solid on the outer layer of calyxes. The unwashed buds still contained moisture.
Now knowing this fact, you can now assume that weight should be substantially less in proportion to the unwashed counterparts. They developed a much more airy texture, BUT the curing process did start ti kick off faster than the unwahsed buds. Only a couple days after curing, the washed buds are noticeably tastier and less harsh than the buds still curing in the jars.
Here are the final weights for the test samples:
Washed Buds
1. 4.8g
2. 5.7g
3. 5.7g
UnWashed Buds
1. 4.6g
2. 4.9g
3. Accidentally got mixed with the rest of the harvest.
Looking at the numbers, the differences are not that drastic, at least not enough for me not to try and fully implement this method into my future harvests. THE ONLY thing I need to perfect before I start washing all my harvests is the drying process. I need to find that sweet spot in temp and RH in order to prolong the drying process. Ideally , a 1-2 week drying process is what I am looking for to get the best quality in appearance with these washed buds.
Here is a comparison shot of dried washed buds and random dried colas that were not washed. NOTE:The nugs in the pics are broken down from the samples, so weights will be less.
Washed
UnWashed
I will eventually update this thread again once I get that one down
To conclude, I have learned that washing your buds DOES in fact make your smoke smoother, and DOES in fact speed up the drying and possibly the curing process. I have not (personally) noticed any affect in potency, neither has 3 other blind test subjects. But the most important bit of insight that convinced me was when Doc Bud portrayed the future:
This applies to me, and many others. Forget the potential loss of trichomes...THAT^ right there should be reason enough to start more healthier, more sanitary practices when cultivating our herbs...we do it with our produce! So to get a head start on a positive Cannabis Reformation, I will pass down this practice to whomever I meet
Great experiment, thank you!
Skybound
Well-Known Member
excellent review AG. being as though I plan to chop in about 5 days and plan to wash my entire harvest, is there any immediate advice you can give other than what you've already blessed us with? being aware of my grow from subbing, I think this might be a quick second chance to immediately apply your learning and we can both reap the knowledge. I plan to use DOC's 4 bucket method with RO water. I still have to figure out the conversion of H2O2 as I have 29% and he calls for 3% to be used. I will also be dialing in the hot bucket with a fish tank heater so I can land right where I wanna within reason.
I am slightly concerned about the loss of hardness on the outside of the nug, but time spent in the jars should mitigate loss of moisture.
anyways, thanks again. hopefully one day our dreams can merge under the same roof.
I am slightly concerned about the loss of hardness on the outside of the nug, but time spent in the jars should mitigate loss of moisture.
anyways, thanks again. hopefully one day our dreams can merge under the same roof.
I've been washing, hanign and trimming for about10 days straight.
I don't use a varied temp wash....but others do and LOVE it.
I dry in 65 degrees 50/60 rH. I start off at 50 and let it creep up to 60 after about 3 days. My stuff hangs for a week, minimum.
For the peroxide, use 10%.