Bud Rot & Mold vs. Microbes

[Azimuth]

Bud Rot & Mold vs. MICROBES, an open source experiment

Several growers on this site have reported promising results by using microbes to battle molds and bud rot, or more specifically, using the microbes to keep them away.

I'm wondering if we, as a group, could help determine if there really is something to it and if these results might be translatable to various growing styles, media, and environments.

So, who's up for an experiment?

I'd propose that anyone interested in participating try it on at least one plant (the target plant) with at least one other plant in the same environment that's left untreated (the control). Much like the "Draughting" thread, we could all share our somewhat different approaches and results.

It won't be a true experiment since we all have slightly different variables, but maybe we can collectively determine some common elements that at least lead to a reduction of bud loss.

I'll tag a few in to see if there's enough interest and would encourage you all to do the same as the larger the testing universe, the more likely we will be to determine possible common elements that lead to success (or at least minimize losses).

The strategy involves making and applying a solution of microbes to the foliage and flowers of the selected plants in whatever interval and conditions you think best, and reporting both successes and failures here.

Making the Microbial Solution is pretty easy and is then applied with a handheld or garden sprayer. I've posted a Large batch and Small batch recipe in my "Alchemy" thread if you want to see what's involved

Anyone up for it?

 

[Azimuth]

@Bill284 @Bode @Buds Buddy @Carcass @Carmen Ray @cbdhemp808 @ChefDGreen @danishoes21 @DonkeyDick @DV8 @el gringuito @FelipeBlu @greenjeans @Grand Daddy Black @Hafta @HashGirl @InTheShed @Jon @Krissi Carbone @Melville Hobbes @Nine Toed Hippie @Odjob @oldmanjj @ReservoirDog @Rexer @scottreid1966 @StoneOtter @Stunger @TwelveCoffee @Vegan4life

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

@Bill284 @Bode @Buds Buddy @Carcass @Carmen Ray @cbdhemp808 @ChefDGreen @danishoes21 @DonkeyDick @DV8 @el gringuito @FelipeBlu @greenjeans @Grand Daddy Black @Hafta @HashGirl @InTheShed @Jon @Krissi Carbone @Melville Hobbes @Nine Toed Hippie @Odjob @oldmanjj @ReservoirDog @Rexer @scottreid1966 @StoneOtter @Stunger @TwelveCoffee @Vegan4life

I am blessed with very low humidity so mold/bud rot is something I haven’t dealt with. But I’m all in to follow along. Will tag @Trala since I know she’s dealt with budrot before.

NTH

 

[Melville Hobbes]

I can give it a shot. Our humidity should start to drop here early to mid September, but if this Autumn is even half as wet as last year I'm going to need all the help I can get.

 

[Bill284]

@Bill284 @Bode @Buds Buddy @Carcass @Carmen Ray @cbdhemp808 @ChefDGreen @danishoes21 @DonkeyDick @DV8 @el gringuito @FelipeBlu @greenjeans @Grand Daddy Black @Hafta @HashGirl @InTheShed @Jon @Krissi Carbone @Melville Hobbes @Nine Toed Hippie @Odjob @oldmanjj @ReservoirDog @Rexer @scottreid1966 @StoneOtter @Stunger @TwelveCoffee @Vegan4life

Hey Azi thanks for the tag.
I'm in of course.

Check the fly stuck to the tric's
​

This just happened.
I'm trying to get some sns maby I can include that with the others.
I'll be devastated if the whole greenhouse get mold.
I'm sure the spores are still in there somewhere. I've got an idea for a foliar I might add in as well, I'll see.
Ok be back with pics as soon as I start my brew.
Hope your doing well.




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StoneOtter]

I will to the best of my capability Azi. Do you want exact formulas? I don't normally have potato flakes around but do potato's. Is there an amount to exchange for the small batch? if not I'll buy some.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Ditto, I am also blessed with low humidity and I haven't yet had to deal with a bud rot or mold issue. I'd be interested in your discoveries. I'm not sure if @BooWho2 might be interested to follow or participate in the conversation?
EDIT: I just read the ingredients for the microbe mix and it sounds like there is certainly no harm in trying it. It sounds healthy and good

 

[HashGirl]

Thanks for the tag, Azi. I think @Emilya would be a good person for this experiment since she's dealing with bud rot right now on a White Widow.

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Have yet to deal with it Az but if something comes up, I'm totally on board! Thanks for the tag and I'm happy to be included on another experiment

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks for the tag, Azi. I think @Emilya would be a good person for this experiment since she's dealing with bud rot right now on a White Widow.

Thank you for thinking to include me in this discussion @HashGirl but I am very dubious about adding more moisture in a foliar in order to battle mold and bud rot. I added another fan and will see what that does to help before trying anything else.

 

[Azimuth]

I can give it a shot. Our humidity should start to drop here early to mid September, but if this Autumn is even half as wet as last year I'm going to need all the help I can get

Thanks, Mel. There are definitely different approaches to using this stuff. @Bode likes to use it before a rain. I think after a rain would also be good, but the more of us trying slightly different approaches could help us dial it in.

Hey Azi thanks for the tag.
I'm in of course.

Thanks, Bill. Your greenhouse site will add to outdoor and indoor sites and help us see if any of them are more or less effective.

I will to the best of my capability Azi. Do you want exact formulas? I don't normally have potato flakes around but do potato's. Is there an amount to exchange for the small batch? if not I'll buy some.

This stuff is not an exact science so approximate amounts are fine. The original recipe from Master Cho uses whole potatoes so you're good to go.

I only adapted it for smaller versions since I usually make mine by the half liter and a whole potato seems excessive. For reference, I used a whole potato when I first started out and was making a 4 gallon bucket of the stuff.

Ditto, I am also blessed with low humidity and I haven't yet had to deal with a bud rot or mold issue. I'd be interested in your discoveries. I'm not sure if @BooWho2 might be interested to follow or participate in the conversation?
EDIT: I just read the ingredients for the microbe mix and it sounds like there is certainly no harm in trying it. It sounds healthy and good

Glad to have you along, Carmen. Who knows, maybe we'll all learn something we can add to our toolboxes.

Thanks for the tag, Azi. I think @Emilya would be a good person for this experiment since she's dealing with bud rot right now on a White Widow.

I'm not sure how effective it will be stopping or reversing an issue, but as a preventative measure it shows promise.

Have yet to deal with it Az but if something comes up, I'm totally on board! Thanks for the tag and I'm happy to be included on another experiment

Thanks, Krissi. The more eyes and experience we have looking in the less likely we are to miss something important!

 

[Bill284]

Thanks, Mel. There are definitely different approaches to using this stuff. @Bode likes to use it before a rain. I think after a rain would also be good, but the more of us trying slightly different approaches could help us dial it in.


Thanks, Bill. Your greenhouse site will add to outdoor and indoor sites and help us see if any of them are more or less effective.


This stuff is not an exact science so approximate amounts are fine. The original recipe from Master Cho uses whole potatoes so you're good to go.

I only adapted it for smaller versions since I usually make mine by the half liter and a whole potato seems excessive. For reference, I used a whole potato when I first started out and was making a 4 gallon bucket of the stuff.


Glad to have you along, Carmen. Who knows, maybe we'll all learn something we can add to our toolboxes.


I'm not sure how effective it will be stopping or reversing an issue, but as a preventative measure it shows promise.


Thanks, Krissi. The more eyes and experience we have looking in the less likely we are to miss something important!

I'll do my best to document everything for you.
Great thread btw brilliant idea.
This opens an avenue for others to follow.
There are lots of comparisons we could be doing as a group.
Take care.




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

I'll do my best to document everything for you.
Great thread btw brilliant idea.
This opens an avenue for others to follow.
There are lots of comparisons we could be doing as a group.
Take care.




Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks, Bill. And this one seems timely!

 

[Azimuth]

I think the first variable could be usage strength. In the Jadam book, Master Cho states that it needs to be diluted before use, and certainly should be if used as a soil drench. But @Bode says he uses it straight up when applied as a foliar.

So, that's what I'm going to do. I have a batch finishing now that's gone about 18 hours and is showing nice healthy bubbles formed at the surface. The flower room wakes up in a few hours and everyone is going to get a shower with the full strength solution, and I'll also water in some in diluted form to increase the microbial action in the soil.

For this batch I used 1/2 liter of non-chlorinated water, 1/2 teaspoon of potato flakes, 1/4 teaspoon of fresh worm castings and a bit of sea salt. I'll screen the mix through a metal sink strainer, add some aloe or a drop or two of dish soap, pour it in a hand sprayer and have at 'em.

I have two plants just starting week 8 of flower that I pollinated, and two new plants just forming budlets. The seeded plants are already showing a few patches of browning leaves which I assume is mold. Normally I'd just cut those parts out and try to save the rest of the plant, but this will be an interesting test to see if the microbe spray can at least halt the spread of the issue or not.

I recently harvested another plant of this strain that I also pollinated and frankly got more seeds than I'll ever use, so if the microbes can't halt the progression and the whole plant is lost, I'm OK with that. It is for science, after all.

 

[Hafta]

Thanks for the tag Azi. I have very good control of temp and humidity (cabinet grow) as well as a couple of fans moving air so I haven't experienced rot or mold. I would love to follow ..... maybe come up with some suggestions .... definitely learn something new.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks for the tag Azi. I have very good control of temp and humidity (cabinet grow) as well as a couple of fans moving air so I haven't experienced rot or mold. I would love to follow ..... maybe come up with some suggestions .... definitely learn something new.

Thanks, Hafta. The more eyes the merrier.

 

[ChefDGreen]

I like the idea but not the product.

I would be more interested in a bunch of us working together to source biocomplete compost, hve someone with microscopy skills verify the quality of the compost we’ve acquired, send enough to each of us to brew the necessary tea volumes for each grower, and compare results.

That way we all know what we’ve got. Samples of tea could also be sent back for analysis to ensure each of us are brewing the compost consistently.

My problem with jadam is that you’re using anaerobic decomposition to create your microbial solution. There’s just no way you’re going to achieve a great diversity of highly beneficial, obligate aerobic organisms.

 

[Weedkeiser]

Hello from Finland!

On our daily weather forecasts on national radio they say the amount of mold spores in the air. When hot and humid, the spore numbers are high. For example this is from today: "the number of spores of Cladosporium and Alternaria molds in the air has increased to high in the southern parts of the country and moderate in the central parts of the country. Rain decreases the pollen counts."

Maybe this has something to do with something.

I experienced bud rot on my Speedy Chile plants from RQS, three different clones from same seed, different tents but same room, couple months ago. No other strain, there were maybe 4 at the same time, had it. Two were DWC, one soil/coco/perlite mix. Didn't lose that much, small parts of some big colas, maybe 20g. I have good ventilation but no AC, it was 30-35c/86-95f 65% in there for weeks.

 

[greenjeans]

Hey Azi - Thanks!!!! I started a 5 g bucket with Pondweed (coonstail) and a good handful of leaf mold on Aug. 2 - then got sick as hell with covid so I've only been able to shuffle back and take a quick look on the 6th. I can see it has been working, and yes!! stinks like hell !!!! I plan to let it work a bit and use it at about a 10% solution as a fertilizer. Sound feasible??
I will admit - I didn't read thru this yet - my head ain't werkin' good yet!!!

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Chef,

I like the idea but not the product.

I would be more interested in a bunch of us working together to source biocomplete compost, hve someone with microscopy skills verify the quality of the compost we’ve acquired, send enough to each of us to brew the necessary tea volumes for each grower, and compare results.

When you say "biocomplete compost" is that just a well done, aerobically made compost or is there a purchased product you are referencing?

And, if just a well made compost, have you a good set of instructions and materials you'd offer to make sure everyone was doing things similarly?

hve someone with microscopy skills verify the quality of the compost we’ve acquired, send enough to each of us to brew the necessary tea volumes for each grower, and compare results.

A logistical challenge to be sure. Microscopy skills are certainly the best way to verify what you have, but I think impractical for most, no?

That way we all know what we’ve got. Samples of tea could also be sent back for analysis to ensure each of us are brewing the compost consistently.

If it's aerobically made tea, it would certainly degrade noticeably during shipment, so I would think an on-site analysis would be the only way to really know what you have made.

My problem with jadam is that you’re using anaerobic decomposition to create your microbial solution. There’s just no way you’re going to achieve a great diversity of highly beneficial, obligate aerobic organisms.

Why do you think aerobic microbes would be better than anaerobic? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but why one over the other? I suppose one argument would be that the flower and leaf surface are in an aerobic environment. But I've not seen the studies from Dr Elaine Ingram who studied the aerobic versions of tea. Thoughts?