Hola Rick! 
Howzit growing?
Howzit growing?
Blue Cindy, G13 Labs, Hempy-ish Grow
- Thread starter Rickle Piiiiick
- Start date
Hey Rick!
I'm going to continue tagging along if you don't mind. I'll be taking notes in the back
.
I'm going to continue tagging along if you don't mind. I'll be taking notes in the back
.- Thread starter
- #23
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
UPDATE: Plenty of progress, so much so I've been trying to slow her down; but more on why later...
So here's some progress pics, starting with last seen on 18AUG2021:
19AUG2021: After cutting off those big beautiful fan leaves...
21AUG2021: Two days later; more growth, more bondage...
22AUG2021: Noticed some interesting "splitting" at the first topping point. So far it doesn't appear to be causing any issues, perhaps just too much girth too quickly?
24AUG2021: Lots more new growth. I'll usually wait until the furthest node has a decent amount of leaf surface area before I trim off the larger leaves from the lesser nodes.
Going to wait just a little bit longer for that 4th node to space out before I top her for the 3rd and final time.
Here's a better picture of the splitting, 2 days later:
25AUG2021: And here she is last night...
Like I mentioned, I've been trying to slow here down a bit by not waiting until branches grow out to the 4th node before beginning to trim off fan leaves and lower nodes. I generally wait until the furthest node's growth has a good amount of leaf surface area, then I clear everything else back. My thought process here, was that her growth would be periodically stunted with less leaves to draw energy from and have to spend more of that energy on new growth. Either way, she needs to slow down!
Reason being, little sister ( Blue Cindy b-sides) moved in next door, and as poor luck would have it; she turned out to be the somewhat undesirable, short bushy phenotype:
So this has put me in quite the predicament, concerning the timing of my flip to 12/12 for flowering. The plan was to expedite the process for Blue Cindy B-sides by simply quad-lining her (keeping just 3rd and 4th nodes) due to her being about 3 weeks younger, rather than waiting out the training of main-lining. But she just won't stretch!
So reluctantly, I went ahead and trimmed what I could get to (the branch nodes are just so damn close) in hopes that I could apply some tie downs here in the next couple days.
So only time will tell how much training I'll be able to get out'a this little sister, before I need to make the flip. Blue Cindy (A) is already finishing up her 7th week of veg next door, and I'm only figuring on another 2 weeks at most before I let her start growing vertical.
In other news:
1. Hempy is awesome, totally think this method should have more of a following!
2. The MaxiBloom Lucas/KISS regiment is working well. I really like being able to tweak the strength of the nutrient solution for each watering with just a splash of RO water and pH down, and my plants seem to be responding well, but I'm going to try upping the recipe to 8g of MaxiBloom per gal of tap water to see if it helps with the available Nitrogen supply.
3. Word of caution to onlookers! This method (hempy) may have you imagin-eering all kinds of new and exciting ways to grow in all kinds of different vessels. I'm not even finished vegging this first hempy grow and I've already jumped face first into more (B-sides + 2 additional autoflowers in hempy buckets on week 3 from seed!) That's not to mention, the grow I'm planning for this fall, which will be my attempt at a smaller version of @koolkat's "Come SOG With Me: 112 Plants, 2 Liter, Hempy SOG". I can't wait to see if I can setup a small reliable sea of green grow that will allow me to harvest 6 plants every month, and if I can ever get a successful clone off of this Blue Cindy, I'll have my first mother to bonsai!
Thanks to those who are following along! And thanks to this great community (and others) for all the great information!
So here's some progress pics, starting with last seen on 18AUG2021:
19AUG2021: After cutting off those big beautiful fan leaves...
21AUG2021: Two days later; more growth, more bondage...
22AUG2021: Noticed some interesting "splitting" at the first topping point. So far it doesn't appear to be causing any issues, perhaps just too much girth too quickly?
24AUG2021: Lots more new growth. I'll usually wait until the furthest node has a decent amount of leaf surface area before I trim off the larger leaves from the lesser nodes.
Going to wait just a little bit longer for that 4th node to space out before I top her for the 3rd and final time.
Here's a better picture of the splitting, 2 days later:
25AUG2021: And here she is last night...
Like I mentioned, I've been trying to slow here down a bit by not waiting until branches grow out to the 4th node before beginning to trim off fan leaves and lower nodes. I generally wait until the furthest node's growth has a good amount of leaf surface area, then I clear everything else back. My thought process here, was that her growth would be periodically stunted with less leaves to draw energy from and have to spend more of that energy on new growth. Either way, she needs to slow down!
Reason being, little sister ( Blue Cindy b-sides) moved in next door, and as poor luck would have it; she turned out to be the somewhat undesirable, short bushy phenotype:
So this has put me in quite the predicament, concerning the timing of my flip to 12/12 for flowering. The plan was to expedite the process for Blue Cindy B-sides by simply quad-lining her (keeping just 3rd and 4th nodes) due to her being about 3 weeks younger, rather than waiting out the training of main-lining. But she just won't stretch!
So reluctantly, I went ahead and trimmed what I could get to (the branch nodes are just so damn close) in hopes that I could apply some tie downs here in the next couple days.
So only time will tell how much training I'll be able to get out'a this little sister, before I need to make the flip. Blue Cindy (A) is already finishing up her 7th week of veg next door, and I'm only figuring on another 2 weeks at most before I let her start growing vertical.
In other news:
1. Hempy is awesome, totally think this method should have more of a following!
2. The MaxiBloom Lucas/KISS regiment is working well. I really like being able to tweak the strength of the nutrient solution for each watering with just a splash of RO water and pH down, and my plants seem to be responding well, but I'm going to try upping the recipe to 8g of MaxiBloom per gal of tap water to see if it helps with the available Nitrogen supply.
3. Word of caution to onlookers! This method (hempy) may have you imagin-eering all kinds of new and exciting ways to grow in all kinds of different vessels. I'm not even finished vegging this first hempy grow and I've already jumped face first into more (B-sides + 2 additional autoflowers in hempy buckets on week 3 from seed!) That's not to mention, the grow I'm planning for this fall, which will be my attempt at a smaller version of @koolkat's "Come SOG With Me: 112 Plants, 2 Liter, Hempy SOG". I can't wait to see if I can setup a small reliable sea of green grow that will allow me to harvest 6 plants every month, and if I can ever get a successful clone off of this Blue Cindy, I'll have my first mother to bonsai!
Thanks to those who are following along! And thanks to this great community (and others) for all the great information!
Nice update! Awesome training! That’s going to be a big knuckle where you describe “splitting “. I try to leave a long tag above the node when I top. Most of the time it doesn’t (really) split. But even then, I put some tape on it, support the stems, and get a big nutrient highway knuckle anyway. No worries.
B-sides may surprise you!
B-sides may surprise you!
- Thread starter
- #25
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
Thanks! Sure hope she starts surprising me soon, lolNice update! Awesome training! That’s going to be a big knuckle where you describe “splitting “. I try to leave a long tag above the node when I top. Most of the time it doesn’t (really) split. But even then, I put some tape on it, support the stems, and get a big nutrient highway knuckle anyway. No worries.
B-sides may surprise you!
How old is the plant?she handled my Quadline training like a champ.
EhCndGrower
Well-Known Member
I was just over 18 weeks with my Blue Cindy. I was 9 weeks veg and just a little over 9 weeks flowering. Pretty much did a daily diary for her here if you wanna see what I did.
- Thread starter
- #29
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
Waaaaay overdue for an UPDATE:
She was flipped to 12/12 about 7 days ago. After the final topping, I decided to let her new growth tips just grow out rather than trying to waste anymore time pinning them down any further. It's only been a week, but curious to see what kind of a stretch she'll give. Also planning to take a few last cuttings to practice with here tomorrow.
Last seen 25AUG2021:
30AUG2021: Defoliating
4SEP2021:
5SEP2021: Defoliating
10SEP2021: Flip Day!
Today 16SEP2021:
The hempy + auto DTW combination is cake. I do regret not creating a bigger reservoir in these buckets though; these ladies will likely require twice daily watering when flowering really kicks in. But, that's another benefit of the simplicity of hempy; you can just cover up the hole you made and make a new one higher up.
Blue Cindy B-sides however, is being stingy. Short and bushy is her game, so I basically said the hell with anymore training. The Original Blue Cindy vegged for almost 9 full weeks, and B-sides made it to 6 full weeks, but as you can see from the pictures above, she didn't do a whole lot with it.
She was flipped to 12/12 about 7 days ago. After the final topping, I decided to let her new growth tips just grow out rather than trying to waste anymore time pinning them down any further. It's only been a week, but curious to see what kind of a stretch she'll give. Also planning to take a few last cuttings to practice with here tomorrow.
Last seen 25AUG2021:
30AUG2021: Defoliating
4SEP2021:
5SEP2021: Defoliating
10SEP2021: Flip Day!
Today 16SEP2021:
The hempy + auto DTW combination is cake. I do regret not creating a bigger reservoir in these buckets though; these ladies will likely require twice daily watering when flowering really kicks in. But, that's another benefit of the simplicity of hempy; you can just cover up the hole you made and make a new one higher up.
Blue Cindy B-sides however, is being stingy. Short and bushy is her game, so I basically said the hell with anymore training. The Original Blue Cindy vegged for almost 9 full weeks, and B-sides made it to 6 full weeks, but as you can see from the pictures above, she didn't do a whole lot with it.
- Thread starter
- #30
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
On a separate but related topic, I could use some help from fellow “gromie’s”
As you know I’m running the Lucas/K.I.S.S formula with just tap water, MaxiBloom dry and Epsom salt. Well, I also have 2 other gals (autoflowers) getting the same treatment, both in flower but one in particular is showing some stress and I can’t put my finger on a diagnosis. Aside from them being autoflowers, the only other difference in the grow is that they are in a 5:1 mix of Perlite and Vermiculite vs my Blue Cindy’s which are in just 100% Perlite. At first, I thought it might be nutrient burn, so I backed off the ppm’s; but little spots continued on the outer margins, so I flushed with RO water, mixed a new batch of nutrient solution (this time mixed Epsom first then MB, in-case it was causing it to fall out of suspension or something) and slowly started upping the ppm’s. More necrotic spots were still showing up though as of yesterday, on top growth and bottom. So, I’ve started supplementing with a low dose foliar feed of micronutrients, until I can get the root feeding situated. My theory at this point is it’s either a Phosphorus deficiency or Manganese. Except, “P” is mobile nutrient, so that doesn’t make sense, but then I can’t imagine there isn’t enough “Mn” in the MaxiBloom either…
As you know I’m running the Lucas/K.I.S.S formula with just tap water, MaxiBloom dry and Epsom salt. Well, I also have 2 other gals (autoflowers) getting the same treatment, both in flower but one in particular is showing some stress and I can’t put my finger on a diagnosis. Aside from them being autoflowers, the only other difference in the grow is that they are in a 5:1 mix of Perlite and Vermiculite vs my Blue Cindy’s which are in just 100% Perlite. At first, I thought it might be nutrient burn, so I backed off the ppm’s; but little spots continued on the outer margins, so I flushed with RO water, mixed a new batch of nutrient solution (this time mixed Epsom first then MB, in-case it was causing it to fall out of suspension or something) and slowly started upping the ppm’s. More necrotic spots were still showing up though as of yesterday, on top growth and bottom. So, I’ve started supplementing with a low dose foliar feed of micronutrients, until I can get the root feeding situated. My theory at this point is it’s either a Phosphorus deficiency or Manganese. Except, “P” is mobile nutrient, so that doesn’t make sense, but then I can’t imagine there isn’t enough “Mn” in the MaxiBloom either…
Isn’t MaxiBloom 5-15-14?
I don’t think it’s P def.
When’s the last time you calibrated your pH pen?
I don’t think it’s P def.
When’s the last time you calibrated your pH pen?
- Thread starter
- #32
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
Great suggestion! Looks like it was about .1-.2 too high. So if I've been adjusting the pH of my nutrients down to 5.8, but it's really been about 5.6 at worst. Is that really out of absorption range?
Could be Ca def. How’s the humidity? Light distance?
- Thread starter
- #34
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
UPDATE: I excel, at punishing my yields...
Sorry for the long stretch, those of you still hanging on to this 'thread'. I have officially abandoned the MaxiBloom dry nutes!
There have been so many issues over the last 4 weeks, I don't even know if there's a best place to start. Firstly, I believe I simply don't have amicable tap water to make the dry MB nutes work. My water out the tap is anywhere from 300-400 ppm (.5 EC scale) now and 7.6-7.8 pH. It's loaded with carbonates right off the bat, so you'd think "great, I can ease off the CalMag". Oh no, those carbonates start playing all kinds of fuckery with the dry nutes no mater how delicately and selectively I blend them in. And that's not to mention all the crap that goes along with the amount of pH balancing I have to do, just to keep it below 6.0. I didn't even know that dropping in too much pH down can cause drastic isolated spikes in the solution and subsequently cause some nutrients to precipitate/fall out of suspension. Throw all that together with a hearty dose of SKY HIGH root zone pH, and I've got myself a sickly plant. but what kind of sickly, and why...
So, because I really don't want to deal with all the labor that goes into mixing the dry nutes, I'm switching to RO water as well as the original Lucas ratio/method of using GH's liquid Micro and Bloom at 8ml/16ml per gallon, from here on out. I really have no way of knowing for sure whether or not my issues are phosphorus related, or calcium related. Excess nutrient related, or deficiency related. All I know for sure is I have root zone+rez with a pH that is all kinds of high, and a nutrient solution that can't stay in suspension.
So let's take a look...
Last seen 16SEP2021: End of week 1 of Flower
21SEP2021: Some defoliating...
26SEP2021: Buds seem to be developing nicely
28SEP2021: Some noticeable growth, ending the 3rd week of flower
01OCT2021: It all starts to go downhill from here... I couldn't tell if this was nutrient burn, or a deficiency. It was working it's way up the plant so I treated it like a deficiency.
3OCT2021: Started out looking Calcium related, but after worse conditions developed, it started to present like a phosphorus deficiency, which given the amount I knew was going in, meant it was being locked-out.
5OCT2021: Flushed again when it continued to spread and took notice that the pH of my run-off was coming out at over 7 pH! That's with 5.8 goin in...
7OCT2021: At that point I knew it was the pH of the root zone + rez. But I'm using 100% perlite + hydroton in the rez, so is it really capable of throwing the pH of the solution that much? Not sure, so I began plugging and flushing at that point with water pH'd to around 4.8 until my run-off constantly came out in the low 6.4's. Then I mixed up a new batch of Gh Micro+Bloom at 8 and 16ml per gallon in RO water with about 1tsp of CalMag per, as well. Gave her a good drench, then waited.
11OCT2021: Increasingly unhappy yesterday, so I plugged and flushed this time with FloraKleen
I must be completely out of my element, because I can't put my finger on what's going on.
Sorry for the long stretch, those of you still hanging on to this 'thread'. I have officially abandoned the MaxiBloom dry nutes!
There have been so many issues over the last 4 weeks, I don't even know if there's a best place to start. Firstly, I believe I simply don't have amicable tap water to make the dry MB nutes work. My water out the tap is anywhere from 300-400 ppm (.5 EC scale) now and 7.6-7.8 pH. It's loaded with carbonates right off the bat, so you'd think "great, I can ease off the CalMag". Oh no, those carbonates start playing all kinds of fuckery with the dry nutes no mater how delicately and selectively I blend them in. And that's not to mention all the crap that goes along with the amount of pH balancing I have to do, just to keep it below 6.0. I didn't even know that dropping in too much pH down can cause drastic isolated spikes in the solution and subsequently cause some nutrients to precipitate/fall out of suspension. Throw all that together with a hearty dose of SKY HIGH root zone pH, and I've got myself a sickly plant. but what kind of sickly, and why...
So, because I really don't want to deal with all the labor that goes into mixing the dry nutes, I'm switching to RO water as well as the original Lucas ratio/method of using GH's liquid Micro and Bloom at 8ml/16ml per gallon, from here on out. I really have no way of knowing for sure whether or not my issues are phosphorus related, or calcium related. Excess nutrient related, or deficiency related. All I know for sure is I have root zone+rez with a pH that is all kinds of high, and a nutrient solution that can't stay in suspension.
So let's take a look...
Last seen 16SEP2021: End of week 1 of Flower
21SEP2021: Some defoliating...
26SEP2021: Buds seem to be developing nicely
28SEP2021: Some noticeable growth, ending the 3rd week of flower
01OCT2021: It all starts to go downhill from here... I couldn't tell if this was nutrient burn, or a deficiency. It was working it's way up the plant so I treated it like a deficiency.
3OCT2021: Started out looking Calcium related, but after worse conditions developed, it started to present like a phosphorus deficiency, which given the amount I knew was going in, meant it was being locked-out.
5OCT2021: Flushed again when it continued to spread and took notice that the pH of my run-off was coming out at over 7 pH! That's with 5.8 goin in...
7OCT2021: At that point I knew it was the pH of the root zone + rez. But I'm using 100% perlite + hydroton in the rez, so is it really capable of throwing the pH of the solution that much? Not sure, so I began plugging and flushing at that point with water pH'd to around 4.8 until my run-off constantly came out in the low 6.4's. Then I mixed up a new batch of Gh Micro+Bloom at 8 and 16ml per gallon in RO water with about 1tsp of CalMag per, as well. Gave her a good drench, then waited.
11OCT2021: Increasingly unhappy yesterday, so I plugged and flushed this time with FloraKleen
I must be completely out of my element, because I can't put my finger on what's going on.
EhCndGrower
Well-Known Member
Wish I were better at figuring this out for you. I wonder if adding some Epsom Salt would help your girl out. Sort of have the same thing happening with a Sour Diesel I’m growing at the moment. So I gave her some Epsom Salt today and will watch her over the coming days/weeks
Heya Rick!
Sorry to hear about your trials. I am mostly seeing indications of K def in the leaves, with possibly a bit of Ca and Mg def as well.
It’s hempy, so you should be able to flush out with fresh water - it doesn’t need to be pH-adjusted, but it appears that your switch to RO is a sound decision - and then come back in with a fresh nutrient solution. I am traveling in Portugal atm so can’t help with calculating your dose (spreadsheet on laptop at home), but if you are good with doing some math, I could PM some instructions to you so you can figure it out.
At this point of flowering, she should be getting something like:
~150 ppm N
50-65 ppm P
200-225 ppm K
100-125 Ca
50-60 Mg
Just let me know..
Sorry to hear about your trials. I am mostly seeing indications of K def in the leaves, with possibly a bit of Ca and Mg def as well.
It’s hempy, so you should be able to flush out with fresh water - it doesn’t need to be pH-adjusted, but it appears that your switch to RO is a sound decision - and then come back in with a fresh nutrient solution. I am traveling in Portugal atm so can’t help with calculating your dose (spreadsheet on laptop at home), but if you are good with doing some math, I could PM some instructions to you so you can figure it out.
At this point of flowering, she should be getting something like:
~150 ppm N
50-65 ppm P
200-225 ppm K
100-125 Ca
50-60 Mg
Just let me know..
- Thread starter
- #37
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
Thanks so much for your time for putting that together and sending @FelipeBlu !Heya Rick!
Sorry to hear about your trials. I am mostly seeing indications of K def in the leaves, with possibly a bit of Ca and Mg def as well.
It’s hempy, so you should be able to flush out with fresh water - it doesn’t need to be pH-adjusted, but it appears that your switch to RO is a sound decision - and then come back in with a fresh nutrient solution. I am traveling in Portugal atm so can’t help with calculating your dose (spreadsheet on laptop at home), but if you are good with doing some math, I could PM some instructions to you so you can figure it out.
At this point of flowering, she should be getting something like:
~150 ppm N
50-65 ppm P
200-225 ppm K
100-125 Ca
50-60 Mg
Just let me know..
I believe I mistyped in my last post, she was definitely showing signs of K def. Which didn't make sense to me at first because I knew my solution mix should have been providing enough. Here's what I believe I was dosing at the time it all started going to hell: 100-100-200-60 target w/ MaxiBloom(7.5g/gal) +Epsom(1.25g/gal)
N=99
P=130
K=230
Mg=102
Ca=99
Fe=1.9
S=122
So by looks of it, assuming what I know about my hard tap water to be true, the K was likely being locked out by too much Ca and Mg (both I believe are antagonists of K). But what about the pH of my run-off during that time (7.0+), what could have caused it to become so alkaline? Could it be the perlite or the hydroton in the rez?
Well, perlite is naturally neutral (~7). I don’t know about hydroton, but I suspect it is probably close to neutral also. Neither have any appreciable buffering capacity though, so are unlikely to force a rise in pH on their own.
That Mg level of 102ppm is very suspect - that high level of Mg could really wreak havoc with K and Ca uptake (see Mulder’s chart).
That Mg level of 102ppm is very suspect - that high level of Mg could really wreak havoc with K and Ca uptake (see Mulder’s chart).
- Thread starter
- #39
Rickle Piiiiick
Well-Known Member
I had been using tap water to mix the original solution at full strength, then diluting with RO to the desirable ppm. Usually worked out to be around 3|1 mix of solution (tap) to RO.
That sounds like the right direction, but from what I've just read: "Magnesium ions come into conflict with calcium ions, causing Ca lock-out (look for symptoms of calcium deficiencies)". My understanding though is that Ca is immobile, so a deficiency would start up top with new leaves right, plus I thought it was excess Ca that would lock-out K not a deficiency. I'm finding it hard to keep minerals and their affects straight...
That sounds like the right direction, but from what I've just read: "Magnesium ions come into conflict with calcium ions, causing Ca lock-out (look for symptoms of calcium deficiencies)". My understanding though is that Ca is immobile, so a deficiency would start up top with new leaves right, plus I thought it was excess Ca that would lock-out K not a deficiency. I'm finding it hard to keep minerals and their affects straight...
Your Ca def is probably on the way. Some of the lesions in the middle of the leaf could be the start.
PS: I edited my above post and added Mulder’s chart.
PS: I edited my above post and added Mulder’s chart.