Best LED for your bang

[LiberalThinker]

In a perfect world, I'd want five of them, and I still wouldn't be trying to grow buds as long as my arm, because I have zero idea as to how well they'd be able to penetrate a canopy in comparison to a 600-watt - or even a 400-watt - HPS.

I used to read high-dollar flashlight reviews written by a guy who used layers of blankets to demonstrate intensity/penetration. These - and most LED grow lights - produce a pretty decent amount of light, especially for their wattage. But each individual LED's power is, well, slight. I ask myself, "If a Techman Superior Self Defense Flashlight (I made that name up, BtW) will shine through three layers of blankets but not four of them, will TWO TSSDFs then shine through six layers of blankets? Five? Four? Or will the pair only manage to shine through three layers - but make things brighter underneath the pile, lol?

IDK. It seems like they wouldn't. It seems like having two headlights won't illuminate objects twice as far away as one would, only that having two of them will give you a wider field of light, allow you to aim one at the area directly in front of your vehicle and the other one into oncoming drivers' eyes (sorry, personal gripe!), et cetera. But I'm just speculating here; I am not a lighting engineer or even the poor SOB builder who has to take the mad imaginings of engineers and actually turn them into reality.

Whatever the source of a photon, the "penetration" is the same. Regardless of the source the inverse-square-law applies. If you ask me, a 3x3 closely-spaced bank of T5's will penetrate into a canopy deeper over a wider area simply because the photons can enter the canopy from more angles than a small-area light source, which effectively acts as a point source. In a nut shell, a wide-area light source creates less shadow areas in the canopy. I'm going to apply this principle with a 1-metre parabolic reflector holding a 600w vertical HPS bulb so the direct light transmission is much reduced in favour of a more even light profile.... deals with direct heat as well and will allow a lower hanging.

 

[Barney86]

Whatever the source of a photon, the "penetration" is the same. Regardless of the source the inverse-square-law applies. If you ask me, a 3x3 closely-spaced bank of T5's will penetrate into a canopy deeper over a wider area simply because the photons can enter the canopy from more angles than a small-area light source, which effectively acts as a point source. In a nut shell, a wide-area light source creates less shadow areas in the canopy. I'm going to apply this principle with a 1-metre parabolic reflector holding a 600w vertical HPS bulb so the direct light transmission is much reduced in favour of a more even light profile.... deals with direct heat as well and will allow a lower hanging.

Different light behaves differently as well though mate . Like blurple led light is non reflective and goes almost straight down from the source. So doesn't matter if you have 20 of them covering the area you still get better penetration from an HPS because that light is reflective and hits them from every angle. I've tried hps and blurples numerous times and the penetration on the HPs covering a metre wins hands down by a country mile.
The level of light you get at different distances from from different lights varies greatly too. Some dissapate in strength much sooner than others.

 

[LiberalThinker]

Different light behaves differently as well though mate . Like blurple led light is non reflective and goes almost straight down from the source. So doesn't matter if you have 20 of them covering the area you still get better penetration from an HPS because that light is reflective and hits them from every angle. I've tried hps and blurples numerous times and the penetration on the HPs covering a metre wins hands down by a country mile.
The level of light you get at different distances from from different lights varies greatly too. Some dissapate in strength much sooner than others.

A photon is a photon and will reflect wherever it comes from. The reason HPS wins by a country mile is because it's lobbing out up to 130 lumens/watt but one is likely just measuring a bright area where the photons land and ignoring the shadow areas. I don''t know if it matters at our growing distances but a HPS light of the same power as a blurple will be seen from further away. My main point in my post was that penetration is a function the surface area of the light source, as illustrated by my picture . I'm a sodium man myself because it chucks out the photons and those photons are usable.

By the way, you can swap the T5 in my picture for a bulb in a big reflector to the same effect.

 

[Mike Wright]

...you still get better penetration from an HPS because that light is reflective and hits them from every angle. I've tried hps and blurples numerous times and the penetration on the HPs covering a metre wins hands down by a country mile.

You're right, HPS light is omnidirectional, which is why it takes relatively more wattage to get the same amount of light to the canopy. So if you ignore efficiency/heat/cost then I would agree HPS wins. I loved the results of my HPS, but I don't use it anymore, LED's just have too many other advantages!

 

[LiberalThinker]

You're right, HPS light is omnidirectional, which is why it takes relatively more wattage to get the same amount of light to the canopy. So if you ignore efficiency/heat/cost then I would agree HPS wins. I loved the results of my HPS, but I don't use it anymore, LED's just have too many other advantages!

A properly designed reflector will redirect the photons that aren't heading for the canopy.

 

[Mike Wright]

Absolutely, but that is still an inefficiency. Light decreases in intensity with the square of the distance. And the substantial reflective benefits you are describing include reflective walls, plus the more intense a point source of light is, the further it must be from the canopy. So the more benefit you get from reflection, the higher the inefficiency. Fisics.

 

[LiberalThinker]

Absolutely, but that is still an inefficiency. Light decreases in intensity with the square of the distance. And the substantial reflective benefits you are describing include reflective walls, plus the more intense a point source of light is, the further it must be from the canopy. So the more benefit you get from reflection, the higher the inefficiency. Fisics.

That's why I want to spread it out in vertical position before pointing it down over a wider area.. LEDs have the same problem I think.

 

[Mike Wright]

I think LED's mitigate this problem by have multiple weaker sources spread out over a larger horizontal plane. Quantum boards maximize this effect. Everything is a trade-off in the end.

 

[Barney86]

You're right, HPS light is omnidirectional, which is why it takes relatively more wattage to get the same amount of light to the canopy. So if you ignore efficiency/heat/cost then I would agree HPS wins. I loved the results of my HPS, but I don't use it anymore, LED's just have too many other advantages!

Yeah I'll upgrade to cobs eventually but money sadly stands in the way at the moment. Wish id got them in the first place. Got about a grands worth of blurples I now don't use cos I replaced them with a 70 quid HP's lol

 

[concrete]

I have the Timber Redwood VS. Its on par with the Fluence SpydrX Plus, which is probably the best light on the market (in my opinion when you compare every measurable spec). The Timber costs $800 and the Fluence costs $1500. The only advantage to the Fluence is you can run it closer to the canopy and still get even coverage.

 

[Stunned]

which is probably the best light on the market

By who's standards?

 

[concrete]

By who's standards?

Efficiency, spectrum, even coverage, and light output for a 4x4 flowering area.

 

[Stunned]

I said "who"!
Who says it's the best light on the market?
Just you saying so doesn't cut it

 

[concrete]

I said "who"!

You mean like who endorses? Obviously me since I made the comment LOL.

But when I selected a light, I was comparing measurable data, like PPF and efficiency.

 

[Stunned]

well this is confusing when newbs look at these threads and see a comment like
"probably the best light on the market"
well, in fact it's probably not the best light on the market

 

[concrete]

well this is confusing when newbs look at these threads and see a comment like
"probably the best light on the market"
well, in fact it's probably not the best light on the market

Noted and edited in my first post.

No, it probably is. My point is that a Timber Redwood can get the job done for less and is truly a great "bang for buck" light if you have a decent amount to spend. I feel more comfortable endorsing the Timber because I am nearing the end of my grow and the light has given me dense frosty nugs and I'm only on day 30 of flower.

That said, if somebody buys a SpydrX Plus based on my comment, they will probably have a very successful grow. Unless they assume buying the best light, best dirt, best nutes and best tent automatically means the grow will be successful. If that person is too lazy to do real research, they are also too lazy to take proper care of a plant.

 

[Stunned]

thank you

 

[W00]

Having a heck of a time with my lights. Firsts ones were led bulbs . They werent enough. Ordered HPS now my small tent went up to 100 degrees. Ugh

 

[bluter]

i'm near a point where i post " build a qb or cob" automatically when it comes to these "what is the best / most efficient / most cost effective / light threads.

if you haven't built one or the other yet, you will in the future lol.

the local shops here barely even carrying lighting anymore. they just can't sell them, and the best tech is all geared to the diy approach. none of them have single ended mh or hps bulbs. they have to be ordered. the double ended gavita type are pretty available tho.

 

[Kevinhayes]

Hey y'all hope your weekend if of to go good start!!

I am going to be using a greenhouse but I want to get the seedlings going before I put them in the final pot and once the weather warms up (north of Toronto). Would any of the following options work if so which one would be the best.

I'm growing in canna Coco and was going to start in a red plastic cup. Would like to start 6_8. It will be my first serious grow. Any help would be greatly appreciated.