Green Knight
Well-Known Member
Wicked; on board at the beginning this time- looking forward to it!
Bassman's RDWC - High Defoliation - Master Kush Grow #2
- Thread starter Bassman59
- Start date
ajagunle
New Member
Definitely earned my vote, and thanks for your exemplary demonstration of this technique!
BigIrishDoode
Fallen Cannabis Warrior
i cheated due to laziness and just ran duct tapeMini Update:
Day 7 in 12/12
Nothing huge to add yet. A couple issues to deal with through the week though.
1. Have been seeing some really bad yellowing and some browning on some leaves. Too many to not be an issue, but not so many as to be in a panic. I think I had a ph lockout issue, and hopefully it's all good now. I re-calibrated my meter and found it was off by .4 I think it was. The ph was too high as a result and somewhere in the 6.6-6.8 area. It's probably been more than a month since I calibrated it, I don't recall for sure but I know better.
2. That god damn leak is back in the uniseal! It's periodic, and bothersome. I may drill a spare bucket and install new seals, then on 1st rez change see if I can muscle the pvc out of the current bucket without scewring the pooch on the other buckets. This won't be easy.
3. My cheapness is costing me. I'm not really a cheapskate, I prefer quality, but sometimes I just take 1/2 measures. The reflector hood is too damn small and leaks too damn much air. I could have spent $40-$60 more when I bought it and gotten a much bigger footprint with a unit that seals up tight. Now I'm going to have to spend $200 on a new hood this next week to get the better footprint. I'll buy a 6" raptor hood with a size of roughly 37.5" x 26.75" vs my current hood at 20" x 19". That's a pretty big difference when growing in this style and making the girls go wide. And the air leak is pounding the temps too high. 84-91 with ballast at 100% or 1k. I've dropped the ballast to 75% for now. Hopefully Tuesday I can get a new hood. If my work week goes well I'll afford it. If not, I bought some weatherstripping and I'll reseal it for temp issues but will still not be a wide enough footprint.
I've done some more bending, just on key branches to make the girls wider. This is working nicely. And secondary branches off of these bent branches are shooting up.
Unlike the Kosher Kush from last grow, these girls have not started flowering yet. Both grows were veg'd under GLR and the Kosher Kush formed flowers by day 5-6 of 12/12 iirc. Interesting, since the KK is a 9-10 flowering period, which is what I harvested at (71 days but maybe 5-7 days early), and the Master Kush is 7-9 week flowering period per the seed vendors. Though last grow of Master Kush I went 10 weeks or slightly more iirc and it came out bomb.
I ordered some more Blue Planet Nutrients/ and they should arrive Tuesday which is perfect. I'm getting the Liquid Seaweed and VitaBlue as new additions to my soup. And I'll be saving a lot of money not buying AN B52 anymore. I'm really looking forward to the results of adding the Liquid Seaweed. I didn't order the Early Bloomer simply because it's this late in the grow. I'll add it to the next grow though. Which reminds me, I'll be germinating more Master Kush about when these girls show flowers or in about a week or so.
I still have a bunch of seeds I haven't even tried yet.
Barneys Auto Blue Mammoth (1)
Barneys Pineapple Chunk (1)
Barneys Critical Kush (1)
World of seeds Afghan Kush Ryder (1)
Delicious La Diva (1)
DNA Martian Kush (6)
All feminized.
No idea when or if I'll be dropping those seeds. But I do have an 4'x4' tent not in use, and my 685w Grow Stealth LED and when I buy the Raptor hood I'll have this smaller hood and a 400w HPS with Lumatek digital ballast all collecting dust. So the equipment is there. All I'd have to do is buy a chiller for a 2nd rdwc. That could effectively put me on a monthly harvest with 1 veg closet and two tents. But it would also substantially increase my electrical bill.
No decisions made yet.
Much to my surprise, Alaska1 nominated me for Member of the Month. I'm really honored by his nomination, and really never expected it. Totally blindsided me. And even more to my surprise I'm in a small lead. While I'd love the gifts of winning, I can't say enough about how much it's more everyone else guiding me than it is me being the Member of the Month. I've only shared honestly what you've taught me and what I've learned elsewhere on the web. In the end, I'm doing this to help mom through her Alzheimer's and maybe it helps a few other folks along the way. Hell, I don't even smoke anymore and haven't in 36 years (come Oct 31st)! How weird is that? If it wasn't for my researching ways to help mom, I wouldn't have ever even thought of growing MMJ. It would be insanely awesome if over time I saw a reversal of some substantial amount of her symptoms. Let me tell you, I would be a MF'er to deal with on the MMJ front if she started to remember she has a 2nd son, or what we talked about 10 mins ago. One can only pray, but it's a MF'er of a disease.
Did I mention I'm seeing the gals stretch a bit every day? Not massive fast yet, but most certainly noticeable. Hopefully the runt of the litter can catch up to the others some. But all in all they are right where I want them on height. I am certain we won't have the height issues of last grow. That should mean an increase in yield in itself.
No pics today. I'll probably update again come Sat or Sun with pics.
(white) around my light i know ill have a mess to clean off it later but it stopped the leak/smell right away
you could do a run in coco in that second tent it will grow just as fast as hydro and use the same nutes/mix and no additional electric usage for pumps etc,just a thought, my grandmother had arterial scolorisis and mini strokes symptoms are the same as Alzheimer it was hard to deal for all of us but i took on the responsibility of her care and she lived with me, it was before i started growing mmj but i often wonder if it would have helped,im sure it would have actually, hindsight and all
don most new seals are treated to resist the elements heat wind uv rays,designed to keep out the cold and or extreme heat, im sure bassman got good stuff so im thinking he will be good , i used white duct tape and it worked like a charm!
he brought clarity to a mysterious subject and is certainly worthy of motm! got my vote tooYou ARE worthy, thats why I nominated you.
werd!!Definitely earned my vote, and thanks for your exemplary demonstration of this technique!
Got my vote too!
Tony Sussan
Well-Known Member
after reading your defoliation thread and seeing this grow u got my vote too mate
Its information shared like this that makes this community what it is!
Its information shared like this that makes this community what it is!
- Thread starter
- #27
Thanks guys, but really all I've done is follow the details of others and pass it on. I surely didn't invent or start anything new. Though the defoliation may be a bit controversial to some. And I sure as hell aint the guru of the technique. Hell I just made the thread because some had asked for something fairly detailed in my last grow.
I'm hoping MrSmith chimes in on the thread there too. He has a lot of experience with the technique and I think with larger plant count smaller plant type grows too. Check out his vert grow if you get a chance!
I'm hoping MrSmith chimes in on the thread there too. He has a lot of experience with the technique and I think with larger plant count smaller plant type grows too. Check out his vert grow if you get a chance!
Doesn't matter if you pioneered the techniques or simply passed on the information to other growers.
It's what you're doing that every respectable grower should strive to be like one day. HELPING one another, and sharing ideas is what this day and age are all about. Heck if it wasn't for the internet and forums like these, most of everyone on here wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn from all the pros. And how information can be so quickly obtained? Thanks to members like you, those noobs are becoming the new pros!
So quit deflecting the praise!
You deserve it damnit!
It's what you're doing that every respectable grower should strive to be like one day. HELPING one another, and sharing ideas is what this day and age are all about. Heck if it wasn't for the internet and forums like these, most of everyone on here wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn from all the pros. And how information can be so quickly obtained? Thanks to members like you, those noobs are becoming the new pros!
So quit deflecting the praise!
You deserve it damnit!
Hi Bassman -
The weather stripping thing is what I did for the hood leaks, and it worked great. I figured that's what you had going on, as I've been there! I've done what BID did too with the tape, and in a pinch/emergency it works for sure. But, it's a pain removing tape. I actually did painters tape once, which still worked and was easier to remove, but the weather stripping is a very good solution. I'm not sure if any of the hoods have decent weatherstripping, and I'm starting to suspect it might just be good to replace it before each new grow as it compresses and loses it's seal a little over time.
I have a new PH meter, and I like it as it's really accurate. BUT, it needs calibrating at least once a week - some hold their calibration longer than others, but it's not a bad idea to get into a habit of doing it once a week to be on the safe side. I do it when I do my reservoir changes now.
Congrats on the MOTM nomination - you got my vote!
The weather stripping thing is what I did for the hood leaks, and it worked great. I figured that's what you had going on, as I've been there! I've done what BID did too with the tape, and in a pinch/emergency it works for sure. But, it's a pain removing tape. I actually did painters tape once, which still worked and was easier to remove, but the weather stripping is a very good solution. I'm not sure if any of the hoods have decent weatherstripping, and I'm starting to suspect it might just be good to replace it before each new grow as it compresses and loses it's seal a little over time.
I have a new PH meter, and I like it as it's really accurate. BUT, it needs calibrating at least once a week - some hold their calibration longer than others, but it's not a bad idea to get into a habit of doing it once a week to be on the safe side. I do it when I do my reservoir changes now.
Congrats on the MOTM nomination - you got my vote!
bassman, i got to admit this defo method works wonders, im starting to wish i did it to all my plants, im putting up pics tomorrow, i got 2 clones that are now well into flower, i removed all leaves with a stem over 1.5 inch and basically all it left me was the leaves poking out the buds with no stem, well this plant i took the leaves from has got buds 3 times as fat as the other plant, ill put some pics up tomorrow and you can see for yourself, the results are shocking, reps if it lets me,
- Thread starter
- #31
Thanks for the suggestions Xlr8! Really every grow replace the weatherstripping? Screw it, I'm buying stock in 3M.
The local hydro store guy says the 6" raptor hood seals 100% and I think he said it's guaranteed to do so. But hey, check out that hood. Pretty damn big compared to my 20"x19". And best I can tell, the $199 out the door price is better than I can find on the internet with shipping.
I had been calibrating my ph meter once a month lately. Mostly because the ph fluctuations were pretty nil since using BPN. But this last week it has been high with the rez change into the flower room and clean out of the old grow. I probably didn't do a good enough job on the cleaning. Not sure. I hate to calibrate it weekly or even bi-weekly and be burning through calibration fluid. But I also only recently started storing it in RO water. I had been letting it dry out with the cap on. Probably a big mistake.
I'm such a lazy bastard. I found the leak between grows when I was cleaning out the system after last harvest. I also saw the uniseal seal up when I tweaked the 2" pvc slightly. So rather than muscle the shit apart and put in a new seal or new bucket and seals I let it go. And it's leaking more! So until Mon-Tues my res change and errands day, I'll be sopping up the water once a day off the tent spill tray. A much bigger pain in the ass than when there are no plants in the tent! And they've grown 4-5 inches in all directions! But hey, at least they aint late in flower, overloaded with buds with string interspersed throughout holding up each and every heavy ass branch that would fall with a big timber if I had to take it out of the bucket.
The local hydro store guy says the 6" raptor hood seals 100% and I think he said it's guaranteed to do so. But hey, check out that hood. Pretty damn big compared to my 20"x19". And best I can tell, the $199 out the door price is better than I can find on the internet with shipping.
I had been calibrating my ph meter once a month lately. Mostly because the ph fluctuations were pretty nil since using BPN. But this last week it has been high with the rez change into the flower room and clean out of the old grow. I probably didn't do a good enough job on the cleaning. Not sure. I hate to calibrate it weekly or even bi-weekly and be burning through calibration fluid. But I also only recently started storing it in RO water. I had been letting it dry out with the cap on. Probably a big mistake.
I'm such a lazy bastard. I found the leak between grows when I was cleaning out the system after last harvest. I also saw the uniseal seal up when I tweaked the 2" pvc slightly. So rather than muscle the shit apart and put in a new seal or new bucket and seals I let it go. And it's leaking more! So until Mon-Tues my res change and errands day, I'll be sopping up the water once a day off the tent spill tray. A much bigger pain in the ass than when there are no plants in the tent! And they've grown 4-5 inches in all directions! But hey, at least they aint late in flower, overloaded with buds with string interspersed throughout holding up each and every heavy ass branch that would fall with a big timber if I had to take it out of the bucket.
- Thread starter
- #32
donpaul, that is AWESOME to hear! I am REALLY REALLY happy for you. Glad it's working out well.
Disclaimer: don't blame me if the branches fall over and break from the bud weight.
dont worry, i got some planks of wood to stake them to, i really cant believe how well this method works, ive been told many times that plants need their leaves and only remove what you have to, well thats all out the window now, if this method works this well on all strains then thats what i plan on doing,
just wish their was a good method for autos, but im trying to make my own so hopefully i can get a decent auto out of all this in the end.
i sent you some reps mate, it let me so i did. these big buds are sure stinking the place out
just wish their was a good method for autos, but im trying to make my own so hopefully i can get a decent auto out of all this in the end.
i sent you some reps mate, it let me so i did. these big buds are sure stinking the place out
- Thread starter
- #34
Tough problem to have isn't it?
After I get my light air seal thing done I know the temps will go down and so will the smell as I will be using the filter properly. But I'm still thinking of buying a 5gal batch of Ona. If nothing else it'll make the house smell pretty.
yep, think ill be getting me some as well, i got no filter and i live in a flat/apartment, and i got someone living above and below me, and someone next door as well, been using air freshener and it was working ok, but now it stinks again after about an hour, so i got to do something, ona is probably my best option,
if i fit a carbon filter then i could only really vent it into the grow room so it wont be doing its job as well, id have to drill a vent into the door to vent it out as its a brick built drying cupboard, so i cant put a vent in the side, i have got a vent in the wall of the grow cupboard because its used as a clothes drying cupboard, so it had a heater at the bottom and a vent at the top and you could dry clothes in their, but i dont want to use that vent as everyone above and below me would have the same cupboard in the same place so if i pushed air out their and it did stink then it would be pushed in all the other flats in the block, and that could cause problems, so i covered it with plastic bag and taped it up,
if i fit a carbon filter then i could only really vent it into the grow room so it wont be doing its job as well, id have to drill a vent into the door to vent it out as its a brick built drying cupboard, so i cant put a vent in the side, i have got a vent in the wall of the grow cupboard because its used as a clothes drying cupboard, so it had a heater at the bottom and a vent at the top and you could dry clothes in their, but i dont want to use that vent as everyone above and below me would have the same cupboard in the same place so if i pushed air out their and it did stink then it would be pushed in all the other flats in the block, and that could cause problems, so i covered it with plastic bag and taped it up,
Hey Bassman -
Consider a small ozone machine, like the "Ozone Jr." It's a pretty good secondary smell reducer - the best I've seen other than the carbon filter. I only use mine when I have company coming and I want to be double extra special sure that the smell isn't noticeable. It's not a substitute for a properly functioning carbon filter, but it's the next best thing and a great back up - better than ONA, which is my third line of defense...
Also, it might not be that the weatherstripping in these hoods is so bad originally per se'... I noticed that the new weatherstripping I put into my hoods before the last grow have lost their spring already. I'm getting a bit of a smell leak due to this myself, despite me "upgrading" my weatherstripping several months ago.
The solution still works and is the right thing, but I've determined it may need to be part of my between grows routine (replacing the weather stripping). It gets flat and loses springiness much like the stuff that came with it to begin with, and once it loses it's springiness, it'll leak. It only took me about a half hour to replace it the first time, and it's not too pricey, so I'm okay with this. But, I wanted to pass this along as it may be useful info in the future.
I confirmed this temporarily by covering up the gaps with a couple of layers of painters tape, and the smell was reduced again. Good thing I have a bunch more of the weatherstripping stuff and it's easy to do...
Might be worth checking into other stuff, too, maybe the stuff DonP recommended perhaps, but I'll probably just redo the weatherstripping again for now...
Consider a small ozone machine, like the "Ozone Jr." It's a pretty good secondary smell reducer - the best I've seen other than the carbon filter. I only use mine when I have company coming and I want to be double extra special sure that the smell isn't noticeable. It's not a substitute for a properly functioning carbon filter, but it's the next best thing and a great back up - better than ONA, which is my third line of defense...
Also, it might not be that the weatherstripping in these hoods is so bad originally per se'... I noticed that the new weatherstripping I put into my hoods before the last grow have lost their spring already. I'm getting a bit of a smell leak due to this myself, despite me "upgrading" my weatherstripping several months ago.
The solution still works and is the right thing, but I've determined it may need to be part of my between grows routine (replacing the weather stripping). It gets flat and loses springiness much like the stuff that came with it to begin with, and once it loses it's springiness, it'll leak. It only took me about a half hour to replace it the first time, and it's not too pricey, so I'm okay with this. But, I wanted to pass this along as it may be useful info in the future.
I confirmed this temporarily by covering up the gaps with a couple of layers of painters tape, and the smell was reduced again. Good thing I have a bunch more of the weatherstripping stuff and it's easy to do...
Might be worth checking into other stuff, too, maybe the stuff DonP recommended perhaps, but I'll probably just redo the weatherstripping again for now...
- Thread starter
- #37
Update
day 11 in 12/12, day 3 in flower.
HAAAAALP COREY and anyone else.
I mentioned previously I had an issue that I felt was ph related and figured it was all ok after recalibrating my meter. But now that I've been in the ph zone, there still seems to be an issu and I'm not sure what the hell it is.
I've changed nothing from my normal nutrient regimen. They are still on their transition nutes until res change Tuesday. PPM is right at 1000 or 2.0 e.c. PH in the mid 5's. But requiring enough ph down to drop it .5 every other day or slightly earlier.
I don't know if the end cause was not cleaning out the entire system well before transferring into these buckets and the rdwc. But this is what I did. I pumped out all that could be pumped. This leaves about 2 inches of water in the buckets. I soaked up most of that with towels. Then I added about 12-14 gals of tap (very bad 700-900ppm tap) and ran the pump through the system with a decent amount of bleach. Unmeasured, but a good guess is 1/2-3/4 cup, for at least an hour or so, maybe more, I dont recall. Then I drained same as before. Soaked up some more of the remaining with towels. I then added back in, another 12-14 gals of tap, adding nothing, flushing the system again for another hour or more.
I then drained the system and soaked up every bit of remaining water in the buckets and wiped them down inside.
It was at this point I added my transition nutrient mix, let it run for 20-30 mins and dropped the girls into the buckets.
They had gone in there looking pretty healthy, but I had an abnormal amount of dried dead leaf and a few discolored leaves. They were pretty bushy so I figured it was just lack of light from the HOT5 and possibly an unnoticed ph lockout.
Since putting them into 12/12 I've probably pulled 30-40 yellowed leaves and maybe 20 dead dry leaves. This is just so odd, because I haven't changed my mix.
All the bad leaves are older leaves, generally in mid plant. And the rest of the plants look nice and healthy.
Temps are 79-80, RH 40%
Here's some pics:
day 11 in 12/12, day 3 in flower.
HAAAAALP COREY and anyone else.
I mentioned previously I had an issue that I felt was ph related and figured it was all ok after recalibrating my meter. But now that I've been in the ph zone, there still seems to be an issu and I'm not sure what the hell it is.
I've changed nothing from my normal nutrient regimen. They are still on their transition nutes until res change Tuesday. PPM is right at 1000 or 2.0 e.c. PH in the mid 5's. But requiring enough ph down to drop it .5 every other day or slightly earlier.
I don't know if the end cause was not cleaning out the entire system well before transferring into these buckets and the rdwc. But this is what I did. I pumped out all that could be pumped. This leaves about 2 inches of water in the buckets. I soaked up most of that with towels. Then I added about 12-14 gals of tap (very bad 700-900ppm tap) and ran the pump through the system with a decent amount of bleach. Unmeasured, but a good guess is 1/2-3/4 cup, for at least an hour or so, maybe more, I dont recall. Then I drained same as before. Soaked up some more of the remaining with towels. I then added back in, another 12-14 gals of tap, adding nothing, flushing the system again for another hour or more.
I then drained the system and soaked up every bit of remaining water in the buckets and wiped them down inside.
It was at this point I added my transition nutrient mix, let it run for 20-30 mins and dropped the girls into the buckets.
They had gone in there looking pretty healthy, but I had an abnormal amount of dried dead leaf and a few discolored leaves. They were pretty bushy so I figured it was just lack of light from the HOT5 and possibly an unnoticed ph lockout.
Since putting them into 12/12 I've probably pulled 30-40 yellowed leaves and maybe 20 dead dry leaves. This is just so odd, because I haven't changed my mix.
All the bad leaves are older leaves, generally in mid plant. And the rest of the plants look nice and healthy.
Temps are 79-80, RH 40%
Here's some pics:
I think your PH issue caused this problem. Sometimes it takes time for it to show, so you're now just seeing it. As long as you've things properly in line and you have confidence in your mix, I'm sure it'll be okay. You can't fix those leaves or change what happened, but that looks like a delayed effect from PH issues, causing a calcium deficiency/lock-out by the looks of it.
If the problem is fixed and you've got things clicking with newer growth looking healthy and PH being accurately measured and within range, you should be okay I'd think. Just my take, but I don't think for a second it's related to cleaning out your system. The bad news would be that I'd expect some loss of yield and stunting as a result, but they'll still thrive going forward as long as things are on track again.
Do you have enough media for a salt build-up to have occurred? If so, maybe do a top-down flush with a 1/4 strength nutrient solution just to be sure there isn't salts built up in the medium.
No matter what happened, the cure is often the same - make sure your PH is in range, and moving through a range, make sure that you aren't over feeding and that you have no salt build-ups by flushing any medium with a diluted nutrient mixture.
I also have another theory here based on some experience of my own defoliating. I think there is a very real risk to the relatively extreme defoliating - the fan leaves take the abuse and absorb excess nutrients to protect the buds and flowers at all costs. You better have things, and keep things, dialed in well when you pull most of them to avoid things like this. I'm more hesitant to boost up the nutrient levels around the times I defoliate, as there is a lot less plant and fans to absorb any mistakes or overfeeding. Thing is, the fans are so much more than a light gathering source - they really protect the plant from our mistakes and abuses. Heavy defoliating is still a great trick and the thing to do, but what you are seeing, I believe, underscores the risk to removing much of the plants built in defense/protection system. I'm still defoliating heavy - it's still what right to do, but I'm much more cautious about PH, nutrient PPMs etc. Less margin for error is the succinct way I could have put it, lol.
Curious as to other feedback or what Corey or others have to say, but that's my theory here on what's going on.
If the problem is fixed and you've got things clicking with newer growth looking healthy and PH being accurately measured and within range, you should be okay I'd think. Just my take, but I don't think for a second it's related to cleaning out your system. The bad news would be that I'd expect some loss of yield and stunting as a result, but they'll still thrive going forward as long as things are on track again.
Do you have enough media for a salt build-up to have occurred? If so, maybe do a top-down flush with a 1/4 strength nutrient solution just to be sure there isn't salts built up in the medium.
No matter what happened, the cure is often the same - make sure your PH is in range, and moving through a range, make sure that you aren't over feeding and that you have no salt build-ups by flushing any medium with a diluted nutrient mixture.
I also have another theory here based on some experience of my own defoliating. I think there is a very real risk to the relatively extreme defoliating - the fan leaves take the abuse and absorb excess nutrients to protect the buds and flowers at all costs. You better have things, and keep things, dialed in well when you pull most of them to avoid things like this. I'm more hesitant to boost up the nutrient levels around the times I defoliate, as there is a lot less plant and fans to absorb any mistakes or overfeeding. Thing is, the fans are so much more than a light gathering source - they really protect the plant from our mistakes and abuses. Heavy defoliating is still a great trick and the thing to do, but what you are seeing, I believe, underscores the risk to removing much of the plants built in defense/protection system. I'm still defoliating heavy - it's still what right to do, but I'm much more cautious about PH, nutrient PPMs etc. Less margin for error is the succinct way I could have put it, lol.
Curious as to other feedback or what Corey or others have to say, but that's my theory here on what's going on.
- Thread starter
- #39
Good feedback Xlr8 and I tend to think the same way. I thought it would be clear now as I calibrated about 5 days ago I think?
I certainly could run nutrient through the media. Not too hard to do.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with defoliation, as it's been weeks since they had a real stripping. I stripped them with timing in mind to be fully re-leafed before 12/12 and won't strip till stretch is over. I obviously also dont strip unless they are nice and healthy stems.
Me too, curious what Corey has to say. Can't hardly wait till Tues when the new VitaBlue and seaweed arrives and a res change and new big fat hood.
I certainly could run nutrient through the media. Not too hard to do.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with defoliation, as it's been weeks since they had a real stripping. I stripped them with timing in mind to be fully re-leafed before 12/12 and won't strip till stretch is over. I obviously also dont strip unless they are nice and healthy stems.
Me too, curious what Corey has to say. Can't hardly wait till Tues when the new VitaBlue and seaweed arrives and a res change and new big fat hood.
Those issues could be showing today from what happened several days ago. I am not saying defoliation is bad, quite the contrary, but there is a risk involved when we take away a plants defense mechanisms - they are a little more vulnerable as a result. I think it's possible that the leaf damage is delayed reaction to problems from PH in the past just showing now. Sometimes the damage doesn't show immediately/quickly. Just giving you my best guesses here.