Autos in organic living soil used up all nutrients

[jimmybrewer]

My two auto plant Zkittles and Alaskan Purple are looking nute hungry in mid flower. They have about 3-4 weeks to finish. They have brown spots developing mostly on top. I top dressed with worm castings and Dr. Earth's Flower Girl dry amendments.
Should I start feeding them synthetic nutes to get them through the flowering stage?
It seems like the Living soil concentrate doesn't carry them through flowering in small 3 gallon pots. Maybe bigger pots are the answer for organic soil.

 

[bluter]

yes feed them. a top dress may take too long to break down in to usable nutrients.

 

[Nunyabiz]

3 gallon pots are utterly useless for LOS.
Need 15 gallon fabric pots as absolute minimum.
To keep it basically organic you'd be better off watering with Buildabloom from Buildasoil or the Nectar for the Gods sample pack of nutrients.

That appears to be a calcium deficiency.

 

[jimmybrewer]

Thanks Butler. Do you have a favorite nute line preference?

 

[bluter]

Thanks Butler. Do you have a favorite nute line preference?

i'm using MC but there are loads of good ones out there. MC is not organic but is not supposed to mess the soil up if you reuse.

 

[013]

I’ve been hearing lots of good about the new organic dry mix fert from our sponsor Geo Flora. Its a one and done that you apply as a top dress every 2 weeks and water it in .

 

[bobrown14]

I think the only reason MC isnt organic is they didn't want to pay the money for it.

I've looked at the ingredient list and its close enough for organic for me and I'mma weed snob. lol

Those leaves with the dark brown necrotic spots looks like a pH problem to me.

Since its an AUTO I'd do some light feeding and check your pH be sure its the same as what the label suggests on your nutrients.

I've never really had great luck growing AUTOs in LOS. They never got very big for me. I think they need more soluble nutrients. Mega Crop seems to be a great choice for AUTO flowering growers.

 

[bluter]

I’ve been hearing lots of good about the new organic dry mix fert from our sponsor Geo Flora. Its a one and done that you apply as a top dress every 2 weeks and water it in .

i don't think geoflora is immediately available to the plant. he needs to feed it now. geoflora takes awhile for the microbes to break it down for it to become available. the plant could starve in the interim.

 

[013]

Ah true that - the posters plant has immediate needs... Totally my bad especially since you had already stated that above. Another rough night another half assed wake & bake, let me go work on that last part

 

[Emilya Green]

i don't think geoflora is immediately available to the plant. he needs to feed it now. geoflora takes awhile for the microbes to break it down for it to become available. the plant could starve in the interim.

I see an immediate boost to my plants on feeding day using Geoflora. I can also notice that my runoff is very dark on that day, so something very significant leeches out of that top dressing immediately and seems to be available to the plants on that first watering after application. I would bet that the organic feeding cycle begins pretty much immediately upon applying and watering in your top dressing, too.

 

[Emilya Green]

Another thought on Megacrop being organic. They even call their product Veganic, not organic... and this distinction is in the way the feeding cycle works. People are getting confused about the words synthetic and organic... and the thinking that anything not artificial and synthetic, is organic. Plastic is synthetic in other words, and wood is organic... but this has nothing at all to do with how the feeding cycle works.

In an organic grow, the nutrients are in their raw form mixed into the soil. Microbes and fungi process these nutrients into a useable form and feed them to the plants. The plants in turn feed the microbes and send messages to the microbes exactly what nutrients are needed by the plant. There are no decisions needed to be made by you regarding the dosages or exactly which nutrients to use... the plant is in total control.

In a veganic system, microbes are not needed and because they are not rewarded by the plant for doing their job, they do not thrive. The veganic system moves the nutrients directly into the plant via the water and then the chelated parts are made available when the plant absorbs their amino acid chelation bonds. The plant has no ability to decide what or how much it is getting, the entire nutrient load is moved unceremoniously directly into the plant... if you give too much or too little, the plant will react. The plant is not in control, you are.... and you need to be good at reading the plant's reactions if you are going to do this correctly. This is the opposite of an organic grow.

 

[bluter]

I see an immediate boost to my plants on feeding day using Geoflora. I can also notice that my runoff is very dark on that day, so something very significant leeches out of that top dressing immediately and seems to be available to the plants on that first watering after application. I would bet that the organic feeding cycle begins pretty much immediately upon applying and watering in your top dressing too.

so assume it acts as a soluble then ? at least partly ?

do you know if it uses any chelation ? if it's straight organic i would imagine it's available without or doesn't need it.

be interesting to see it in action. it's not approved here, which is odd when jack's and MC are both legal and available. our standards are tough though. some stricter than california. lots of growth hormones and pesticides are outright barred.

 

[bluter]

Another thought on Megacrop being organic. They even call their product Veganic, not organic... and this distinction is in the way the feeding cycle works. People are getting confused about the words synthetic and organic... and the thinking that anything not artificial and synthetic, is organic. Plastic is synthetic in other words, and wood is organic... but this has nothing at all to do with how the feeding cycle works.

In an organic grow, the nutrients are in their raw form mixed into the soil. Microbes and fungi process these nutrients into a useable form and feed them to the plants. The plants in turn feed the microbes and send messages to the microbes exactly what nutrients are needed by the plant. There are no decisions needed to be made by you regarding the dosages or exactly which nutrients to use... the plant is in total control.

In a veganic system, microbes are not needed and because they are not rewarded by the plant for doing their job, they do not thrive. The veganic system moves the nutrients directly into the plant via the water and then the chelated parts are made available when the plant absorbs their amino acid chelation bonds. The plant has no ability to decide what or how much it is getting, the entire nutrient load is moved unceremoniously directly into the plant... if you give too much or too little, the plant will react. The plant is not in control, you are.... and you need to be good at reading the plant's reactions if you are going to do this correctly. This is the opposite of an organic grow.

good explanation.
most folk don't understand how MC and similar fertilizers work. run in to it all the time.

i believe there is a synthetic / salt based component to it as well that would not fall under the vegan terminology.
so only a percentage is vegan.

 

[Emilya Green]

so assume it acts as a soluble then ? at least partly ?

do you know if it uses any chelation ? if it's straight organic i would imagine it's available without or doesn't need it.

be interesting to see it in action. it's not approved here, which is odd when jack's and MC are both legal and available. our standards are tough though. some stricter than california. lots of growth hormones and pesticides are outright barred.

Yes, it is partially soluble... a certain amount of it melts down into the soil with each watering.

and that is probably what is keeping it out of Canada... the amino acids, bat and bird guano, humic acid and microbes that are part of the mix.

I don't think anything is chelated... it is put into a homogeneous granular form that releases an even supply of the entire load with each watering.

good explanation.
most folk don't understand how MC and similar fertilizers work. run in to it all the time.

i believe there is a synthetic / salt based component to it as well that would not fall under the vegan terminology.
so only a percentage is vegan.

Exactly.

 

[bluter]

Yes, it is partially soluble... a certain amount of it melts down into the soil with each watering.

does it rely on microbial activity ? sounds like it brings some with it onboard. just a guess.

and that is probably what is keeping it out of Canada... the amino acids, bat and bird guano, humic acid and microbes that are part of the mix.

none of those things look suspicious enough to deny approval. as a general rule if it's approved for california it is usually good to go here. stuff approved here is pretty much globally accepted.

I don't think anything is chelated... it is put into a homogeneous granular form that releases an even supply of the entire load with each watering.

so it's available as a soluble at least partly right off the bat. i like the approach and am curious about the tech.
our idea of what organics are is currently changing in the industry.

 

[bluter]

to the OP ..

any decent set of nutes will be good to go here. you don't need to wait to get a particular nute .. at this point it just needs fed.

 

[RetiredRN]

My two auto plant Zkittles and Alaskan Purple are looking nute hungry in mid flower. They have about 3-4 weeks to finish. They have brown spots developing mostly on top. I top dressed with worm castings and Dr. Earth's Flower Girl dry amendments.
Should I start feeding them synthetic nutes to get them through the flowering stage?
It seems like the Living soil concentrate doesn't carry them through flowering in small 3 gallon pots. Maybe bigger pots are the answer for organic soil.

One of my plants has done that very same thing the whole time that I’ve had it and I’m about two weeks from harvest. I use living soil and it only lasted about four weeks and then I started having nutrient deficient issues and started to supplement with Cal mag and Foxfarm nutrients.

 

[Emilya Green]

does it rely on microbial activity ? sounds like it brings some with it onboard. just a guess.

it brings the full load of the specific microbes needed to process the nutrients, with each watering. I was advised that I can use chlorinated tap water, and the chlorine will not (and does not in real practice) destroy all of the microbes between waterings. As long as you keep applying every two weeks, you will have plenty of microbes... this is why the stuff even works in coco to produce real organic grows.

 

[bluter]

it brings the full load of the specific microbes needed to process the nutrients, with each watering. I was advised that I can use chlorinated tap water, and the chlorine will not (and does not in real practice) destroy all of the microbes between waterings. As long as you keep applying every two weeks, you will have plenty of microbes... this is why the stuff even works in coco to produce real organic grows.

i have a pile of hp promix i'd love to run it with if i could get it.

 

[bobrown14]

I will use mega crop outdoors in the ground. HEAVY dose 2x a grow. Like a whole bag for 200 gallons of water and water in. In containers I dont need it.

Interesting info on veganic - I always thought it was a step above organic and only inputs were from vegetable origin and no animal products like composted manure/guano etc.

Veganic is the idea of a closed loop farming system where everything is sourced at home. Green manures grown on your land and used for fertilizer. Nothing sourced external to your own property.