Ase's Multi-Strain Quadlining In Coco

Pennywise said:
I got tired of chasing ghosts so started learning what was really happening. It's made life so much simpler.
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Yes!! This is exactly what I was trying to say. I need to simplify!
 
Growca2268 said:
Jealous man, that’s a HUGE cost saver. This is what I’m working with out of the tap... yummy.
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Yeah the cost of my grows are insanely cheap. My initial costs were probably higher than normal for a single tent but I also have won a lot of equipment now. I used to run one tent and my cost for that whole tent was about $750 (lights, carbon filter, tent, coco, timers...etc.). Since then I haven't really spent any money and could probably run 4 full tents and have a drying tent. I have bought a few new bricks of coco in between. I'd probably need another carbon filter but for the most part two tents is plenty and I've never ran more then that.

My variable costs grow to grow are next to nothing. All of the seeds I have are from contests or sponsors and I have been fortunate to grow some stuff from people who breed on this forum. I get water out of the tap. Energy bill really is low month to month compared to others I've seen because of the LED lights. I'd like to try some different nutrients but I get really great quality stuff and good yields using the cheap General Hydroponics. I also have a few nutrients lines from sponsors that I have just sitting in boxes. I don't have to run a heater or A/C ever. I just have been very fortunate in my growing career.

I do plan on splurging and purchasing or building some really nice high end lights as well as trying new nutrients but I'll be doing that research in my downtime of growing here once this Tangerine Dream is done and I pack everything up for a bit.
 
Just my $.02, some science debates on this site lead ppl to a place where they lose site of the forest for the trees. Have fun with it, ignore those “tips and tricks that’ll give you 80% more trichs in the last 2 days” and don’t feel the need to reinvent wheels that need not be reinvented.
 
Growca2268 said:
Just my $.02, some science debates on this site lead ppl to a place where they lose site of the forest for the trees. Have fun with it, ignore those “tips and tricks that’ll give you 80% more trichs in the last 2 days” and don’t feel the need to reinvent wheels that need not be reinvented.
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Amen! It is just a weed after all and as well all know, weeds just find a way to grow. We make this process way more difficult then it is and I really don't believe that something like 2 days (your example but there are plenty of others that people do) really make a big difference in the end when you have been growing it for 100+ days. If they didn't turn out great then a day or two of doing a little trick really wasn't the problem.
 
Asesino85 said:
Yeah the cost of my grows are insanely cheap. My initial costs were probably higher than normal for a single tent but I also have won a lot of equipment now. I used to run one tent and my cost for that whole tent was about $750 (lights, carbon filter, tent, coco, timers...etc.). Since then I haven't really spent any money and could probably run 4 full tents and have a drying tent. I have bought a few new bricks of coco in between. I'd probably need another carbon filter but for the most part two tents is plenty and I've never ran more then that.

My variable costs grow to grow are next to nothing. All of the seeds I have are from contests or sponsors and I have been fortunate to grow some stuff from people who breed on this forum. I get water out of the tap. Energy bill really is low month to month compared to others I've seen because of the LED lights. I'd like to try some different nutrients but I get really great quality stuff and good yields using the cheap General Hydroponics. I also have a few nutrients lines from sponsors that I have just sitting in boxes. I don't have to run a heater or A/C ever. I just have been very fortunate in my growing career.

I do plan on splurging and purchasing or building some really nice high end lights as well as trying new nutrients but I'll be doing that research in my downtime of growing here once this Tangerine Dream is done and I pack everything up for a bit.
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Can’t beat that, awesome man.
 
I am one that needs to look at data, whether actual data or visual to make decisions. Hence my answer and how I would do it till I seen a pattern I could use to make things easier.
 
Asesino85 said:
Here is my opinion on the matter. Once I got my way of growing down I still ph'd and ppm'd every single bucket for about a year. I always checked my runoff and I was pretty meticulous about knowing these numbers. After that long I ended up determining that my PH was always the same really. I choose to always water my plants with nutes in them so I don't do the whole load up with one bucket with a heavy feed and then just do water the next couple times. I believe you should water every day with nutes in it for coco. Because I do that generally my ppm doesn't fluctuate that much so neither does my PH. I'd rather feed every day but at lower amounts if that makes sense?

For almost 2 years now I haven't PH'd anything no matter if it's feed going in or runoff coming out. However, I have my way of doing things and my plants seem to be always pretty healthy. I don't even measure what nutrients I am putting into my buckets anymore. Every once and a blue moon I'll pull out my PPM pen and test it and I'm usually right where I want to be. Everything is just an educated guess now and believe it or not you will get there at some point. I haven't used a drop of PH up or down in ages.

Now there is another part to this that I want to recognize. There are many people with differing opinions on the matter but most people that have experience like me (Derby,Penny, etc..) probably could do the same thing I do and have healthy plants. It's like when you do things over and over you can almost get it perfect without measuring (repetitive learning? or something...). I do believe if you are learning then it is good to PPM and PH both the water going in and the runoff. It can tell you a bit about what's going on with the part of the plant you can't see, the roots and how they are functioning. Also if I had any sort of unhealthy issues happen the first thing I'd do is pull out both my pens and do the same thing. I think it gives you a good starting point to try and figure out what is going on. You'll see why shortly but really just the runoff PPM can tell you everything but PH can be a double check.

Higher PPM usually causes lower PH. There may be no science to back up my theory here so take it with a grain of salt but it's worked for me when I was learning and had some issues in my first couple grows so I feel comfortable putting it out there. Let's say I put a big feed into my plant. (1000 PPM and 5.5 PH). If I test the runoff and the PPM is 1300 and PH is 5.0 then that is a red flag for me. That means salts are building up in the coco and are essentially being flushed out. To me it signals a couple of things. The roots aren't uptaking everything that you are putting the plant (could be lockout and leaves would probably show this) OR your coco is getting too dry and nutes are being left in the coco because roots don't have the water to absorb the nutrients up and they turn to salts. You will often see salt build up start to happen on the rims and outsides of the pots (if using airpots). Every different mineral in nutrients absorbs at a different PH level so maybe some of the minerals that absorb in 5.8 PH range are getting absorbed but the ones in the 6.2 range really aren't and being left behind. The leaves will also tell you this though and they will identify the overage/shortage of that mineral and show a different difference or burn because of it.

Generally this does not work as well the other way. If you measure the PPM and PH and it's way lower then what you are putting in then the PH doesn't tend to go really high in numbers (ex. 200 PPM runoff and 9.0 PH). In that example PH probably stays at 5.5 if that is what you are putting in and won't shoot up to 9.0 but you'd think in theory it might because of my example with the higher PPM. So I always recommend to focus on PPM in runoff and not so much PH. If you have a really low PPM then your plant is absorbing everything and probably needs more feed. You can often see this when branches and fan leaf stems stay purple. A small amount of that purple can be genetics but mainly it's underfeeding and often happens in mid flower. Plants really don't show anything worthwhile except overfeeding in veg.

So while I will agree with most of the people that posted that PH is pretty irrelevant in runoff, I do think that it can give some information on what is going on in the bucket. I always recommend for new coco growers to water so you are getting some runoff once the plants are big enough. Doing this too early on kind of just causes you to have saturated coco all the time and can cause algae buildup and make it more difficult for roots to absorb anything. The first few weeks you really have to be careful and only give a bigger amount of water every 4-5 days and then just littler waterings in between. Enough to make the pots feel like they are holding water and not let the coco dry out but not to have any runoff. I error on the side of drier in this stage. Once the plants really take off in veg the roots have filled the pot and they will begin to drink like crazy and then you can just give larger amounts of water every day because by the next day they will be dry-ish again.

The solution always when having problems in coco is to water so you get a lot of runoff like a mini flush. In this water you want to include a feed that is pretty small (if you have been feeding 800ppm cut it to 400) and then give the plant a balanced set of the nutrients. I don't mean 5ML of each of the bottles but rather do some quick math and give them enough of each bottle so the N-P-K is about an equal parts ratio of 1-1-1. You want to give them enough of that water so what is going in (in terms of PH and PPM) is exactly whats going out. It's basically a reset and hopefully if there is any salt buildup or excess minerals of one kind in the coco then it was absorbed in the large amounts of water and flushed out.

With all that being said I just use basic saucers now that my plants sit in and when I have runoff I just let it sit in the saucer and the plant just absorbs it throughout the day. I try to have just the tiniest bit off runoff (like drops) because then I know the water has gotten all the way down to the bottom of the pots. I also will note how much feed that takes to get there and I'll feed the same the next day. If I get no runoff then I probably could feed a little more and the plants are drinking more and more. If I get a bunch of runoff then I know I can do less the next day and it's almost perfect. The one thing I really want to make clear on this topic is that testing runoff anything really doesn't tell you the problem. If your PH or PPM is way off then something else is the issues. People think that if their PH is really low they can really spike up the next PH (with PH up) of the next feed and it solves everything and it really doesn't work like that. If you have a runoff of 4.0 PH and you think it's a good idea to put PH up to 8.0 to hit 6.0 in the pot then you'll be disappointed with the results. Now you are filling the plant with a really high PH and basically flushing the old 4.0 PH out and your plants still won't absorb anything because the PH is way too high. This is why I recommend the whole balanced reset thing.

I hope this didn't cause you more confusion but you asked so you got my opinion. This is a topic with many opinions but this is what has worked for me. I hope it helps.
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Awesome write up Ase!!
 
Day 84 Flower GSC, Day 57 Flower Tangerine Dream

This should be a rather quick update since there isn't much new to report. The Girl Scout Cookie will be coming down tomorrow and will have gone a full 12 weeks in flower. This sativa learning pheno of Girl Scout Cookie sure did well. The colas were definitely not sativa-like but it did have a flower time like a sativa and stretched liked one too. I already removed all the big fan leaves so it will be a littler easier to trim tomorrow. Sure is a beauty and I'm interested to see what the smoke is like.

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The Tangerine Dream just keeps moving along. I think I will do a small defoliation tomorrow just to make sure the airflow stays good as the colas get larger. The hairs are starting to turn amber now and she will just spend the last few weeks fattening up. I will move my tower fan from my other tent into this one so she has 3 fans all to herself. Then the Multi-Strain tent will get a cleaning and get boxed up until further notice. Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

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  • Comments 1
 
Heavenly Hybrid said:
Penny has it right, they are amazing!! You dry in an extra tent, right?
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Correct. I have a 2x4' tent that I dry in and because it is a little smaller, it is easier to control the humidity and airflow. I started using this tent because it was just an extra plus I always wanted to try and pump out grows as fast as possible. I could save a week by using another tent and getting another grow going. This time the tent comes down and won't go back up until I know what my housing situation is. I will likely use the 2x4' tent (after the GSC is done drying) to start my fruit and veggie seedlings for spring.
 
JAMESMH1970 said:
When is the right time to top? Technique of cracking of main stalk to make a knot which is thought to increase plant intake to repair damage to stalk also increasing intake to the plant as a whole. I've tried it a couple times, don't really know if it made a difference. I never had a strain with F*uk in the name Asesino L0L
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If you start on page 60 you will see the early stages of my decision making on when to top. I also do not really believe in on purposely damaging your plant that bad to increase intake. You'll lose a chunk of time in veg to it and I think it's really unnecessary. If you don't know if it's made a difference then it probably hasn't.

The technical name for Alaskan Thunderfuck (which is what the Durban Poison was bred with to make Durban Thunderfuck) is Matanuska Thunder Fuck or Matanuska Tundra. I generally don't swear in my posts but it's the name of the strain so I don't edit it out. I'll tell you what though, it's one hell of a strain. Until my recent episodes with panic attacks, it was my go to daytime high. I did smoke a tiny bit of the DTF yesterday and did alright with it so I may see what the ATF does to me today. Since I have gotten a lot of other things straightened out I'm pretty confident it won't send me into a whirlwind like it did a few weeks ago (on a couple occasions). I love sativas so I need to get that part sorted it and I've got plenty of CBDream left if I need to mix the two to take the edge off while enjoying the sativa effect.
 
Asesino85 said:
If you start on page 60 you will see the early stages of my decision making on when to top. I also do not really believe in on purposely damaging your plant that bad to increase intake. You'll lose a chunk of time in veg to it and I think it's really unnecessary. If you don't know if it's made a difference then it probably hasn't.

The technical name for Alaskan Thunderfuck (which is what the Durban Poison was bred with to make Durban Thunderfuck) is Matanuska Thunder Fuck or Matanuska Tundra. I generally don't swear in my posts but it's the name of the strain so I don't edit it out. I'll tell you what though, it's one hell of a strain. Until my recent episodes with panic attacks, it was my go to daytime high. I did smoke a tiny bit of the DTF yesterday and did alright with it so I may see what the ATF does to me today. Since I have gotten a lot of other things straightened out I'm pretty confident it won't send me into a whirlwind like it did a few weeks ago (on a couple occasions). I love sativas so I need to get that part sorted it and I've got plenty of CBDream left if I need to mix the two to take the edge off while enjoying the sativa effect.
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Sucks about the anxiety (totally get it), do you feel potency is part of the problem these days? For example if that ATF wasn’t grown so surpreme would be more enjoyable for you, or was that the exact same ATF and potency you used to smoke no problem? I somewhat recently tried a Nigerian Haze on the east coast that was homegrown and phenomenal (smoked whole joints in the morning and felt great), then came back to CA and found nige on a menu and grabbed some. The difference was the CA stuff was tested at 32% THC and I absolutely hated it.
 
Growca2268 said:
Sucks about the anxiety (totally get it), do you feel potency is part of the problem these days? For example if that ATF wasn’t grown so surpreme would be more enjoyable for you, or was that the exact same ATF and potency you used to smoke no problem? I somewhat recently tried a Nigerian Haze on the east coast that was homegrown and phenomenal (smoked whole joints in the morning and felt great), then came back to CA and found nige on a menu and grabbed some. The difference was the CA stuff was tested at 32% THC and I absolutely hated it.
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I've smoked for about 15 years and I think I have been very fortunate to live in a state (Oregon) where there was a large underground market and some high quality stuff all the time. Northern California is very close by and it's my totally biased opinion that the best ganja came out of these two states before legalization kicked it. Part of that has to do with the decriminalization both states had so people were more free to grow without getting in big trouble if they did get in trouble. Basically what I am trying to get at is that I feel like I've always had high quality stuff to smoke my whole smoking career.

I am not a great one to ask about potency considering I haven't purchased weed since I started growing so I have only my stuff to compare. I've never had it tested but I've given a lot to friends and many have come back saying you just can't even get stuff like it at the dispensaries. So judging by that feedback I'd assume it's pretty potent stuff. However, to me it is all the same because it came off the same plant and I smoked a ton of ATF before these panic attacks happened and it triggered two of the three major panic attacks I've had just recently. I had been smoking the same ATF for months. Really the main issue isn't the weed though. The main issue is me working long hours on no sleep with very little food because I was always in a rush, and I have a very physical job. I also have a hard time shutting my brain down when there is something important to think about or plan out and it's just a huge overload. My body is out of whack causing pain in areas that have vital organs like my heart and when I smoke that pain increases to a point where I think something is majorly wrong. In reality it's just my blood pumping faster and harder and my paranoia of what might actually be the problems goes straight into thinking I'm going to have a heart attack or something.

I wish I had more of a perspective to answer this question but really I'm limited to my own supply. I do know people who have smoked way longer then I have and when they've told stories about how crappy the potency was back in the day. I bet if you had the 32% stuff and only smoked a half a bowl of it instead of a whole one you might feel differently about liking/hating it. If you bought an 1/8th of the East coast stuff and smoked regular bowls with it then maybe if you smoking the other stuff in half bowl increments you might find that the more potent stuff lasts you twice as long and is a way better value. Just food for thought ;).

I've had friends who say they hate smoking because it makes them feel crazy and all that but I always assure them I am the right person to smoke with. I start new/non-frequent users out with a half a bowl and tell them to just blow the smoke out right away, don't hold it in. They look at me like I'm crazy but then we wait 20 minutes and if they don't feel anything we smoke again and maybe have them hold it in a tad longer. Usually by the 2nd hit they are happy but don't get way too baked. They are always amazed that they've had many really awful experiences but a lot of smoking is how you do it. I hate the people who load a newbie a huge bowl and make them rip the whole thing and watch them cough up their lungs in pain and misery and think its hilarious. Those people will never know the benefits of weed because they are jaded by their experiences because some irresponsible stoner killed it for them. Dosing is an important factor in smoking even to just be relaxed. Taking a huge bong rip your first time smoking will probably be your last time smoking and that is a shame.
 
Gotta get sleep, man, gotta get sleep. Delta 9 edibles have helped me on the sleep front quite a bit personally, but making your own would probably be even more effective (I’m not there yet). Came across that brand from a dude on YouTube named Weeats Reviews (awesome channel of a dude who just eats every edible he can find and reviews them - when he gets absolutely zapped it’s just too funny). At any rate, hope the anxiety chills out and my guess is the monster harvest of TD will help.
 
Plants look fantastic Ase!
Tangerine is getting bigger by the day !
 
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