Mayne
Well-Known Member
thats awesome man, i think i read about your rig if i remember correctly, cant remember, lol..It will go to 440 watts when turned up all the way.
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thats awesome man, i think i read about your rig if i remember correctly, cant remember, lol..It will go to 440 watts when turned up all the way.
Yes, at that point your right. At the old days when we don't have par meters, we also only test with lumen, but usually good chips are with higher lumens and par as well. So it can be used for reference.we know that Sara, but not everyone can buy a PAR meter, that just converts LUX anyways, its a big LED community scam. I have done tests to confirm this also, so its not just me talking crap, PAR is great for the producers of the light for a Selling Point, but in little home grows, Lux meters work just fine, staying with the notion that LED growers burn their plants because they give them to much light, and thats a fact.
Intensity is intensity regardless of light, and Both the $153 PAR meter and the $30 Lux meter is just the same, The Lux degrades with distance, as does the PAR meter, at the same rate.
Life Stage | Maximum | Good | Minimum |
Vegetative | 70,000 lux | 40,000 lux | 15,000 lux |
Flowering | 85,000 lux | 60,000 lux | 35,000 lux |
This pic is from weeks ago and it shows ppdf around 900. That was my sweet spot for early on in flower. They are weeks past that now and I have my lights close enough to get about 1050 ppdf.
Here is a pic of the meter I use
If you drop temperature can you drop lux?ok, i watched vid, and yeap, he hit it on the head.
seedlings need 5,000-10,000 lux 1-4 week veg, 20,000 Mid flower to finish, 35,000 lux is just great. The thing with the sun is, the plant matter is cooled, and doenst have a blanket of heat on it, like the LED would be, so the plant has to work double time to cool itself, then u get deficiencies, because the plant is using up Mag and potassium to keep herself cool,
Why do you want to reduce light levels? Research indicates that there is a linear relationship between DLI, plant yield, crop yield, and crop quality up to a PPFD of 1500µmols.If you drop temperature can you drop lux?
I moved my plants in from outside cause of temperatures and my lights only can put out 30k lux?
oh yes, i totally agree with you. My plants LOVE getting 30,000 lux during flower. So we break that down backwards in time....dialing down the lux all the way back to when my plants were mere seedlings pushing the helmet shell off of their heads, freshly popping out of my grow medium....Look, when you have 1 light, knowing your lux is important, not because of spectrum or anything, but knowing your intensity that you have. Thats allllll it does, measure intensity, IN YOUR GROW AREA.
If you have a 300 real watt light, you veg with HALF of what the TOTAL intensity to the height you can get nearest your LED before burning. SO, THAT is your ceiling, and You take HALF that LUX, and that is your baseline for Veg, because when you Flower, you want to double your veg watts.
So, knowing your total lux possible, You know what you should be giving your plant from seedling to finish.
You dont give a seedling 1000 PAR, You dont give a week 4 veg 1000 PAR, UNLESS, your flower is 2000 PAR,
My plant is flowering nicely at 30,000 lux, and NEVER gets more then that,
BUCKET SIZE Matters, because a 1 gallon will only grow so many roots, and more roots, OR BIOMASS, In a 3 Gallon, will grow MORE BIOMASS, and a 5 gallon will grow more then the 3, should anyways.
a Stalk of 1/4 inch thickness, cant take the amount of light that a 1/2 inch thickness stalk, because its LESS BIOMASS, and needs less light then the larger stalk.
Stem thickness is relative to lux, AND nute PPMs, AND BUCKET SIZE, AND WATTS,
a LUX meter gets you dialed in, because you can give your plant to much light, and a lux meter shows Intensity.
I have a very precise plan im following with certain things right now, and LUX or light intensity is the main narrative for it.
I havent even watched this dudes video yet, because he is wrong on alot of things,lol..
Bottom line is, you dont give your plant the same flower intensity that you would give it 2 weeks in veg.
ok, now i will watch the vid,LOL>.
Good to see people using a lux meter!oh yes, i totally agree with you. My plants LOVE getting 30,000 lux during flower. So we break that down backwards in time....dialing down the lux all the way back to when my plants were mere seedlings pushing the helmet shell off of their heads, freshly popping out of my grow medium....
Before i had my light at 30,000 lux, and about 20inches above the canopy.....i had it set to about 20,000 lux for a little while, then ramped it up to 25,000 lux for a few days, just by lowering it down from about 26inches above the canopy, to around 22 or 23inches above the canopy. I had been growing my plants in veg for a while, with the light giving them 18,000-20,000lux from a little over 2feet above the canopy.
Before that....when i first started to bend them over or train them in any way....i had my light about 30inches above them, giving them around 15,000lux....and then just lowered my light some to give them about 18,000lux when i handled them for the first time, lol...bending or cropping or anything.
And finally, before all of that....i had my light set to a little less than 3 feet above the soil, and giving them about 5,500 lux to 6,000lux until their seed shell helmets came off, and their two main baby leaves spread out...then i waited for a couple of days and set it to about 7,000lux and cruised for a couple of days letting them grow up in lux intensity as their tops got closer to the light, little by little.....until i saw that they were ok and doing good, having grown up into receiving about 8,000lux and liking it, then i lowered the light some and started getting them up to 10,000lux, growing good...looking like i might be able to crop or stress or bend soon, so might as well see if they are ready for 15,000lux maybe 18,000lux......and here we go chopping on them, bending them, etc...lol.
@Delps8Good to see people using a lux meter!
Would you like to increase your crop yield by more than 50%? If so, read on.
When I started growing, I didn't get a lux meter, unfortunately. I tried to use Photone and, after testing it and trading email with the programmer about it, I bought an Apogee*.
The Apogee is a great product but it's $$ so I recommend that growers use a light meter (the Uni-T Bluetooth) and then get their grow to the light saturation point as soon as possible.
One issue with using a light meter is that light meters measure a different part of the spectrum than what plants use. Light meter display results in lux but agriculture measures light as µmol ("micromols").
How to convert from lux to µmols?
"There's an app for that"…called a calculator.
Or you can use a table or do the rough math in your head.
Or you can just run with it that your grow should be at 60,000 lux and you won't have to read the rest of this message.
But, if you're interested in how things work under thehoodcanopy…
In the PDF on lux that I've attached, the table covers a variety of lights and gives the converted PPFD values vs the lux readings. A standard white LED has a conversion factor of 0.015 vs a really blue light (0.013) vs a dedicated flower light (0.016). It's best to use a factor that matches your light or as close as you can get but close is good enough in this case.
Here's my pitch - your results were great at 30k and that works out to about 450µmols. That's about 50% of the light saturation point for cannabis. You were happy with the results at 30k lux and that's great. If you like how things are turning out, don't touch a thing.
So where's the 50% increase figure coming from?
Read on.
Research tells us that crop yield and quality increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase, up to the light saturation point (the LSP is 800-1000µmols, depending on the strain). I've attached a paper that discusses this**.
I've created the table below, based on the formula in the paper.
The table was created using the formula for the yield curve and, in the PDF, I started the table at 600µmols because that's the minimum recommended amount for flowering cannabis.
What the table above indicates is that, in the plants that were grown for research, if the increase in yield between crops given 600µmols of light and 900µmols of light was 23.7%. Yup, by turning the lights from 600 to 900µmols, the crop yield would increase by almost 25%.
In the case of the grow that was at 450µmols vs that same grow at 900µmols, the increase in yield was 57±%.
You've taken the step of getting a light meter (I recommend the Uni-T Bluetooth meter or, if you want a PAR meter, I'd go with either an Apogee, a Li-Cor, or the Spot On). The next step is increase your light levels to hit a limit in the range of 800-1000µmols. Assuming that light was your limiting factor, your yield should increase significantly. Per the research, I would expect it to be somewhat more than 50%.
*I've been a software engineer for 30+ years, including three for Apple, so I have some insight into the software and hardware problems that he's dealing with. For a variety of reasons, I don't use Photone and I recommend it under only certain circumstances. I strongly recommend growers use a lux meter and get their grows to the light saturation point as quickly as possible.
**The Chandra paper, which shows that the curve starts to roll off at 500µmols is measuring net photosynthesis. The paper I've cited and attached deal with crop yield and crop quality.
Howdy well i do know to much light in flower will give the flowers a sun bleaching,turned them white as if they didn't get enough light but they were the tops and it wasn't from heat i Just my two cents folks oh and sometimes less is more!Hmm... Must be the subject of the weekend, lol.
Lux = very poor way to measure light, unless you're planning your home interior lighting. It's weighted - and heavily so - towards the portions of the visible spectrum that appear brightest to the Mark I Eyeball, Human. Which isn't exactly the best portion of the spectrum for plants.
In theory, then, when comparing two lights of comparable efficiency and wattage, the one with the LOWER lux reading could just as easily be the most powerful grow light.
This has been common knowledge since well before "PAR" became an oft discussed topic, so part of me wants to question the judgment of anyone who has uploaded a video to YouTube recently (IOW, last few to several years at least) with a subject such as "plants are unable to use light above 45,000 LUX).
But, yeah, there is a maximum amount of light-energy that a plant can process at one time. And also in a day's time; see:
Code:cannabis DLI
(DLI is an abbreviation for Day Light Integral, and plugging those the two terms into your favorite web-search engine ought to provide lots of information on the subject.)
Raising your garden temperature will help a bit. Doing so whilst adding CO₂ supplementation will help quite a bit in terms of how much light-energy your cannabis plants can effectively process. But there's still going to be an upper limit, otherwise enough light would allow us to literally watch them grow (into trees, lol).
@seaofgreen18Howdy well i do know to much light in flower will give the flowers a sun bleaching,turned them white as if they didn't get enough light but they were the tops and it wasn't from heat i Just my two cents folks oh and sometimes less is more!
Lol that's funny! ive Done that to, Dont like to admit but , yeah! For me things like that need to happen so i can learn, a book or a pod cast really doesn't do much for me sometimes except get me in trouble lol!! I like too fuck with shit when things are good but ive gotten better by doing it but that's me@seaofgreen18
You are absolutely correct. Not only will too much light turn them white, it can cause them to hermie.
The hermies tend to begin lower and on the older branches so if you see white, look for male flowers down below.
You can't guess how I know ..........