Anyone using Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs yet?

[OldMedUser]

I was wondering if anyone was using Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs yet? They look like the bomb. Philips makes 'em in a 250 and 400 watt versions with up to 1000 on the way and they can be used with an HPS ballast. The light spectrum is way higher in red and blue with a pure white output.

I just gotta get a couple of those. I'm using 2 EYE Hortilux 400W conversion bulbs in HPS ballasts and a 1000W SunMaster MH for flowering. Tho I think the SunMaster is shot.

Anyway, if you've tried those CMH bulbs I'd like to hear what you think of them.

 

[Cherma]

No, but I'll check in on it. Thanks

 

[OldMedUser]

It has been brought to my attention that linking to other forums is not permitted for any reason.

I thought that was only supposed to be links to other forums in ones sig.

I might be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[CharlieMopps]

You are allowed to copy and paste an article and quote your source. The idea is we have our own secure server and people shouldn't have to leave this area to get the information.

Come on now its not that much harder to copy an article and cite it, than it is to insert a link.

Ceramic hetal halides look like a good option and i'll have to give them some serious research.

 

[SmokeyMcMedic]

Lets keep this thread alive. After reading LabRat's thread, I did some research on the Ceramic Metal Halide. According to the people at Philips, the CMH is supposed to work as good as, if not better than and HPS bulb for flowering. They are said to run cooler as well. Im with LabRat on this one. Anyone out there have one?

 

[Setting Sun]

I've used a 250 CMH bulb through one grow and halfway through my current grow.

It's spectrum is like having sunlight in your grow room. It's great for taking pics because it's just like daylight. It radiates the same amount of heat as the equivalent wattage HPS bulb, but it doesn't "throw" the heat downwards towards the plants as much as HPS.

In my very limited experience with CMH, I'd say that plants love it and grow really well under it, but it may produce leafier buds than HPS if used to flower.

On my current grow, I had to stop using my CMH bulb because I'm using a very reflective grow tent and the CMH bulb produced enough UV that I didn't feel comfortable continuing to use it. Even wearing a long-sleeve shirt, the light would burn my arms when I would tend to my plants. I'm diabetic, so I was also worried about any UV damage to my eyes on top of the risk from diabetes. I know I could wear sunglasses and more protective clothing, but at this point I'm not convinced that CMH is better than HPS for growing, and my admittedly limited experience demonstrates that HPS produces stickier buds.

There are people successfully using them through their whole grow, with no complaints of UV exposure, so my experience may not be typical.

 

[Setting Sun]

Another reason that I don't think CMH is the best choice for me is that you can't use CMH bulbs with electronic ballasts.

I've seen the 20-25% gain in light output twice now, once when switching from a magnetic 150 watt HPS ballast to a Galaxy 150 electronic ballast, and again when switching from a 250 watt magnetic HPS ballast to a Lumatek 250 watt digital.

I think that 20-25% increase in sheer lumens more than makes up for whatever advantage the CMH may provide in spectrum.

Then when you throw in the fact that electronic ballasts are silent, which is quite important to me because I hate buzzing ballasts, the choice becomes easy.

CMH bulbs don't cost that much, however, so it's not a big investment to experiment with them if you already have a 250 watt or 400 watt magnetic ballast that will strike one. I have two 250 watt magnetic ballasts that had no trouble firing the bulb up.

Now that I have the 250 Lumatek, which gave me a very noticeable boost in lumens and is completely silent, I rather doubt I'm going to be using the CMH bulb.

 

[OldMedUser]

I've used a 250 CMH bulb through one grow and halfway through my current grow.

It's spectrum is like having sunlight in your grow room. It's great for taking pics because it's just like daylight. It radiates the same amount of heat as the equivalent wattage HPS bulb, but it doesn't "throw" the heat downwards towards the plants as much as HPS.

In my very limited experience with CMH, I'd say that plants love it and grow really well under it, but it may produce leafier buds than HPS if used to flower.

On my current grow, I had to stop using my CMH bulb because I'm using a very reflective grow tent and the CMH bulb produced enough UV that I didn't feel comfortable continuing to use it. Even wearing a long-sleeve shirt, the light would burn my arms when I would tend to my plants. I'm diabetic, so I was also worried about any UV damage to my eyes on top of the risk from diabetes. I know I could wear sunglasses and more protective clothing, but at this point I'm not convinced that CMH is better than HPS for growing, and my admittedly limited experience demonstrates that HPS produces stickier buds.

There are people successfully using them through their whole grow, with no complaints of UV exposure, so my experience may not be typical.

Thanks for the info. I've got a couple of old 400W HPS magnetics that I hang off of nails on the wall and I can't hear them over the exhaust fan and air pump. Not that it matters much as I can't hear any of it in the house.

I'm using one HPS regular bulb and one EYE Hortilux but I might swap them out for the 1000W MH as they seemed to flower fine under it the last two crops.

I've been eyeballin' the CMH as a better all purpose bulb as paying $140 for a 400W anything is too freakin' much. I can order a case of six CMH for $240 from a local electrical supply and as most of my bulbs are getting long in the tooth that should last me for a while.

That must suck being a toker with diabetes. If I couldn't smoke up and scarf down a box of Oreos I'd go nuts. Tho the canna cookies I made a few days ago take care of both at the same time. :0)

 

[Setting Sun]

Thanks for the info. I've got a couple of old 400W HPS magnetics that I hang off of nails on the wall and I can't hear them over the exhaust fan and air pump. Not that it matters much as I can't hear any of it in the house.

I'm using one HPS regular bulb and one EYE Hortilux but I might swap them out for the 1000W MH as they seemed to flower fine under it the last two crops.

I've been eyeballin' the CMH as a better all purpose bulb as paying $140 for a 400W anything is too freakin' much. I can order a case of six CMH for $240 from a local electrical supply and as most of my bulbs are getting long in the tooth that should last me for a while.

That must suck being a toker with diabetes. If I couldn't smoke up and scarf down a box of Oreos I'd go nuts. Tho the canna cookies I made a few days ago take care of both at the same time. :0)

Most people don't mind magnetic ballast buzz or, like you mention, it's drowned out by fan noise, etc. I'm using a very quiet pc fan to exhaust my tent and a fairly quiet 6" circulation fan inside the tent, so the ballast buzz was the loudest noise. Like I said, noise bugs me more than it bothers most folks, so I'm making that as clear as I can. It's simply not an issue for most people.

If you get the CMH bulbs, please let us know how they work out.

Diabetes is not an easy disease to manage, whether you toke or not, but smoking weed doesn't give me the munchies for some reason. I love to eat, love good food, and love to cook, so I guess it would be more accurate to say that weed doesn't *increase* my baseline munchies.




regards,

setting sun

 

[gorillagrow]

While I'm not using these lamps myself, I was working for 1 of the largest manufactors of this newest line of CHM lamps, while they were being devoloped, in early 2005. Not being a real techy myself, and simply going on disscussions with the engineers that design these lamps, their comment to me, have been that these are the closet thing to true sun light available! They are in the process of set up a manufactoring line here in the US. The tech info should be readily available from the seimens website.

Life without harmony isn't life!

 

[TorturedSoul]

with the engineers that design these lamps, their comment to me, have been that these are the closet thing to true sun light available!

That comment leaves me curious about something: Occasionally I will hear/read something like that when a bulb is being discussed and I stop and consider that the sunlight that reach plants in the Spring & early Summer would tend to be weighted more towards the "vegging spectrum" and the Fall/harvest sunlight that reaches plants would be weighted more towards the "flowering spectrum." So which particular bit of "true sun light" did the engineers mean, I wonder?

Or am I missing something? I admit that my thinking cap is currently broken.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

I have a 400 Watt CMH, the reason I went with one was because 1) I have an old 400 Watt HPS Ballast that can fire these bulbs, and 2) it throws WAY less HEAT than a 400 Watt HPS, and it's open fixture rated so that made my life even easier. It also maintains it's lumens better, longer life, ect..

The reason they say they're as good as sunlight is because the US Navy has been using some (SOME!) on subs to see how the crews react. Like plants we too need sunlight to live.

I plan to run the CMH through the entire grow (when I finally get it back up and running), this is a heat management issue. The CMH seems to be the best Veg bulb but so far I have no personal experience with it in flowering. Although I've heard both good and bad. Some people report great results vegging and using the CMH up to about the 3rd week of flowering then switching to HPS to finish.

If you have a 1 light system and it's a 400 Watt HPS (Not electronic or digital) you now have a cheap option for a great veg bulb. Mine cost $53 plus shipping.

Grow journal to start in less than 60 days (I hope!).

Cheers!

Indicana

 

[Setting Sun]

[QUOTE
If you have a 1 light system and it's a 400 Watt HPS (Not electronic or digital) you now have a cheap option for a great veg bulb. Mine cost $53 plus shipping.

Grow journal to start in less than 60 days (I hope!).

Cheers!

Indicana [/QUOTE]


looking forward to your grow journal!

I'm still very curious about CMH and if they come up with CMH bulbs that will work with electronic ballasts (I heard a rumor) then I would try them again.

regards,

setting sun

 

[gorillagrow]

Like I said not, a real tech kind of person, a newbie at best. I myself have my second grow going, using nothing but CFL's, poor man style. Everything is new to me, and find that the more I read the more I have to think about!! It's funny how, involved 1 becomes, in this adventure!! Just when I believe I have something figured out I read something else that make me pause and think about it for a couple more days!! LOL I must admit, I sure do enjjoy it.

Life without harmony isn't life

 

[Setting Sun]

Like I said not, a real tech kind of person, a newbie at best. I myself have my second grow going, using nothing but CFL's, poor man style. Everything is new to me, and find that the more I read the more I have to think about!! It's funny how, involved 1 becomes, in this adventure!! Just when I believe I have something figured out I read something else that make me pause and think about it for a couple more days!! LOL I must admit, I sure do enjjoy it.

Life without harmony isn't life

I'm a very curious person and a gadget freak who likes to experiment, so when I become interested in something, like growing, I research the hell out of it and patiently wait for good deals on equipment.

I just wish our beloved plants had a shorter life cycle

regards,

setting sun

 

[OldMedUser]

While I'm not using these lamps myself, I was working for 1 of the largest manufactors of this newest line of CHM lamps, while they were being devoloped, in early 2005. Not being a real techy myself, and simply going on disscussions with the engineers that design these lamps, their comment to me, have been that these are the closet thing to true sun light available! They are in the process of set up a manufactoring line here in the US. The tech info should be readily available from the seimens website.

Life without harmony isn't life!

I'm no engineer myself, but in my thirties I went back to school and three years later scored myself a diploma in Chemical Sciences, Environmental, university level. A full year of physics taught me a little bit about light. Actually, a lot more than I thought I would ever need to know or care about. Well, WTF, twenty years later, I care and I'm glad I know a bit.

My thoughts are that these CMHs are probably the best over-all bulb to use for both veg and flower. All the spectral data I've read put these bulbs head and shoulders above not only HPS and MH standard, but at least heads over most of the horticulture bulbs available at three to four times the price. I haven't seen any PAR watt value data to compare the old standards with yet. Ergo my quest to get more input from growers that are actually seeing results from these bulbs. The only way I can buy them here is if I order a case of six. I wanna do it so bad but $300/6 when I only need two is out of my unemployed league at the moment. Fifty bucks for a bulb that's proven better than the EYE Hortilux and HPS I'm running now is a lot better than $125 for a 400W EYE.

The blue and red spectral outputs look crazy high and seem to have real values better than what I'm running now. Juice isn't cheap around here, so at $0.21 KWH I'd like to get the best bang for my buck.

I'm yanking out the 2x400 watters and moving the tubs apart a bit dropping the 1KW MH in to finish up flowering. The sucker worked great last time and @ $40 for a bulb that puts good medicine in the bowl, who am I to argue?

Still want those CMHs tho.

 

[OldMedUser]

That comment leaves me curious about something: Occasionally I will hear/read something like that when a bulb is being discussed and I stop and consider that the sunlight that reach plants in the Spring & early Summer would tend to be weighted more towards the "vegging spectrum" and the Fall/harvest sunlight that reaches plants would be weighted more towards the "flowering spectrum." So which particular bit of "true sun light" did the engineers mean, I wonder?

Or am I missing something? I admit that my thinking cap is currently broken.

It's not broken, it's just stoned. :0)

True sunlight basically mean the full spectrum that the sun pours down on us every day. The early spring or fall spectrums are the same "true sunlight" that is lower in blue and higher in red because as the planet tilts the "true sunlight" has to pass through a lot more of our polluted atmosphere before it hits our girls. All that crud up there is good at knocking out the higher frequencies, eg: blue, while the reds just cruise on through. Mid-summer everything has equal levels of air to pass through before toasting our babies.

Beyond lumens, watts etc is good old CRI. Colour Rendering Index. The higher the CRI, the closer it is considered to be to sunlight. Too many ways for manufacturers to come up with this number but still another guide to our choice of the light that's best for our girls.

Hope that helps.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

The only way I can buy them here is if I order a case of six. I wanna do it so bad but $300/6 when I only need two is out of my unemployed league at the moment. Fifty bucks for a bulb that's proven better than the EYE Hortilux and HPS I'm running now is a lot better than $125 for a 400W EYE..

Hi,

I live in Canada too, and got a single bulb with no problems from a US site. It's a good site, the only one to pre-burn the bulbs before shipping (CMH bulbs seems to have a high initial failure rate). I can't PM yet but if you shoot me one I'll send you the link.

Cheers!

Indicana

 

[OldMedUser]

Hi,

I live in Canada too, and got a single bulb with no problems from a US site. It's a good site, the only one to pre-burn the bulbs before shipping (CMH bulbs seems to have a high initial failure rate). I can't PM yet but if you shoot me one I'll send you the link.

Cheers!

Indicana

Thanks for the offer but I ain't ordering squat from the states. I don't even order from Canadian sources tho I have a new fishing buddy and I'm going to see if it would be cool to have stuff sent to his PO box.

I don't really need the light at this moment, just trying to get the low down on their effectiveness. If they are as good as they seem I'll just go pay cash and buy the whole case.

They'll get used eventually. :0)

 

[Indicana Jones!]

Hi,

I did FINALLY get my grow up.. such as it is, and the CMH so far is working great!

First Grow 12/12 No Mercy Style Skunkberry 400W CMH

Indicana.