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- #241
Amy Gardner Of Eden: Perpetually Organic
- Thread starter Amy Gardner
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Hmmm. Well then 11/13 it is!
Thanks!
Well, I don’t know exactly - I’m used to working in PPFD. But an online lux to PPFD calculator indicates that 45,000 lux is about 850 PPFD, which is about 3 umoles/hour. So 11 hours would be a DLI of about 33. A bit low for flowering, but will do okay.
I have exact numbers ....
The LM561C s6 bin diodes at 3500K, are rated at 66 Lux/umol. So 45000 Lux = 680 umols. In my experience, 1000 umols starts to push the plants pretty hard in bloom, and will make any other deficiency (humidity, temps, nutrients, etc) a bigger problem than it needed to be. Mine are happier in the 800+ range unless everything is going well. In addition, you can get a much higher yield/watt in the 600-800 range. The higher intensity doesn't get you a one-to-one increase in yield.
And surprisingly, a very high DLI in veg has never seemed to be a problem for my plants.
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- #244
Thanks for that Gray. So if I’m in the 650s now (for the flowering zone) and plan to push it a bit more very soon, I should be getting things somewhere inside the ‘good‘ zone. Things seemed to work out pretty well last time.
Yep, with these boards at their very high efficiency, I keep finding that I have more light than I "need". 
I think part of it is the dispersion and spread from so many little diodes, 'cause it conflicts with conventional wisdom about how much is needed..
I haven't posted my real world numbers in awhile, and this looks like a good place, so here are some more.
I run a 4x4 with 14 quantum boards at 304 diodes each. That's a ton of diodes (4256) at very high efficiency, producing 190 lumens per watt. At 613 watts at the wall, I get 1175 ppfd. I have hard dense nugs at 4 feet from the panels and I keep the tops at least 18 inches away. My useful canopy (500-1200 umols) is over 2 feet deep. I easily yield 2 pounds per 4x4. I think I have the most over-the-top efficient setup I've seen so far.
But I'll be turning them down for the next run - too many other issues. I think there's a period in early to mid bloom when they crave the intensity and even some high heat, but the rest of the time they'd be happier with less. I've become certain that they want a much cooler and dimmer environment in late bloom, for instance.
The mid-power white diodes have changed the entire game. They're that much better at horticultural lighting with their very low temperature and ability to be spread widely across the sky.
I think part of it is the dispersion and spread from so many little diodes, 'cause it conflicts with conventional wisdom about how much is needed..I haven't posted my real world numbers in awhile, and this looks like a good place, so here are some more.
I run a 4x4 with 14 quantum boards at 304 diodes each. That's a ton of diodes (4256) at very high efficiency, producing 190 lumens per watt. At 613 watts at the wall, I get 1175 ppfd. I have hard dense nugs at 4 feet from the panels and I keep the tops at least 18 inches away. My useful canopy (500-1200 umols) is over 2 feet deep. I easily yield 2 pounds per 4x4. I think I have the most over-the-top efficient setup I've seen so far.
But I'll be turning them down for the next run - too many other issues. I think there's a period in early to mid bloom when they crave the intensity and even some high heat, but the rest of the time they'd be happier with less. I've become certain that they want a much cooler and dimmer environment in late bloom, for instance.
The mid-power white diodes have changed the entire game. They're that much better at horticultural lighting with their very low temperature and ability to be spread widely across the sky.
I completely agree with Graytail - that there is a sweet spot - probably around 850 PPFD. Since your current lighting appears to be around 650, you would probably benefit from an increase.
I give the example of the sun only because it’s all I have right now. But there are clouds and rainy days too.
Nobody growing indoors, unless they have their environment and nutrition down cold, and use CO2 perfectly, should ever need over 1000 PPFD.
I give the example of the sun only because it’s all I have right now. But there are clouds and rainy days too.
Nobody growing indoors, unless they have their environment and nutrition down cold, and use CO2 perfectly, should ever need over 1000 PPFD.
If you think about the light intensity in terms of the typical growing season outside, it gradually increases until solstice, and then gradually decreases. The spring sun tends to be slightly bluer and the fall sun slightly redder. I would like to see someone develop a light system like this, and have it slowly move across the tent. That would be something..
Heavenly Hybrid
Well-Known Member
Things are looking great, as usual ms. Amy! Sour bubba looks wonderful.
I’ve only experimented with the 11/13 schedule one time, on this last run of CBD clones I just finished. Compared to their moms (who had 12/12) they each took at least an extra week to finish and some could have gone even longer. Just my limited experience.
I’ve only experimented with the 11/13 schedule one time, on this last run of CBD clones I just finished. Compared to their moms (who had 12/12) they each took at least an extra week to finish and some could have gone even longer. Just my limited experience.
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- #249
think I have the most over-the-top efficient setup I've seen so far.
Thanks for laying out the details there 
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- #250
Thank you!
nice to see you ms hybrid! 
That’s very interesting about your 11/13 experience because many people say shortening days towards the end of flower can help speedup the finish. Yours were clones too so that’s curious. Were the moms also clones? Or were the moms the original ‘from seed’ plants?
I’ve only ever done it this way so I’ve nothing to compare in my own garden - I’m still learning to be an indoor grower. I don’t think I mind if a plant takes a bit longer to ripen, it only gets phatter in the meantime
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- #252
Welcome back! Fantastic to have you back in the garden Shed!
I’m both stoked and impressed that you actually caught up Hope you’re keeping safe over there my friend.
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- #253
I’ve been waiting almost 2 years to drop this one...
It’s now in soil
It’s now in soil
Reave
Well-Known Member
Brooklyn sunrise autos are 11 weeks. IMHO the one great purpose for autos is growing outdoors where the summers are short. Here in southern Canada plants would not finish till October. I have two Brookies growing outdoors in my journal right now. Since they legalized here I watched many have to harvest early , build make shift green houses , and lose the crop all together because nobody understood that we don’t get under 13 hours of sunlight till end of august or later. Anyway autos solve that problem.
Reave
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Heavenly Hybrid
Well-Known Member
That is what I was expecting to happen too (shorter time to harvest), lol, it did not work out that way! The moms were original ‘from seed’ and I did do 11/13 the whole time, not just at the end. Maybe that’s a difference maker?? My first experiment with it, so I don’t have anything else to compare it to either, but its interesting. Looking forward to seeing how it works out for you.Thank you!
That’s very interesting about your 11/13 experience because many people say shortening days towards the end of flower can help speedup the finish. Yours were clones too so that’s curious. Were the moms also clones? Or were the moms the original ‘from seed’ plants?
The initiation date and length of flowering is related to the seasonal variations of daylight where the original landrace strains were from. The following graphic may help illustrate.
For example, a landrace sativa from Thailand (~15N) would be subjected to around 13 hours of daylight until about day 250 (September 7), and wouldn’t see 11 hours until about day 320 (November 16), a total of 70 days.
Whereas, a landrace sativa from South Africa (30S) would get more than 13 hours until day 60 (Mar 1), and would see 11 hours by about day 105 (April 15), or about 55 total days.
For example, a landrace sativa from Thailand (~15N) would be subjected to around 13 hours of daylight until about day 250 (September 7), and wouldn’t see 11 hours until about day 320 (November 16), a total of 70 days.
Whereas, a landrace sativa from South Africa (30S) would get more than 13 hours until day 60 (Mar 1), and would see 11 hours by about day 105 (April 15), or about 55 total days.
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- #258
Precisely Felipe Thanks! So some strains will get to flower quickly and some will not.
I must say though....
Me and graphics man... they just do my head in! I understood the words ok tho!
I’m just speculating really... I don’t think the shorter light hours would have made them take longer, so I’m reaching for other explanations. As I do...
Thanks! So some strains will get to flower quickly and some will not.I must say though....
Me and graphics man... they just do my head in! I understood the words ok tho!Well I’m not doing it for the purpose of shortening flower time or anything so it will work out just fine like before I‘m guessing
Ok so I’m sure I’ve read that clones can have a slightly different flowering time to ’seed’ moms so perhaps that accounts for it rather than the light period. I can’t remember if it’s said the clones will be quicker to finish or slower tho, and maybe that is strain dependent as well
I’m just speculating really... I don’t think the shorter light hours would have made them take longer, so I’m reaching for other explanations. As I do...- Thread starter
- #259
Ive struggled to have success w autos outside here. But i don’t have that problem you describe with things starting flower. I am trying to find good ones that will work tho - the end of my season can be iffy in terms of humid & cool conditions.
Heavenly Hybrid
Well-Known Member
I’ve heard that as well (being a shorter flowering time than the moms), I just put two more clones into flower on a 12/12 schedule, so we’ll just keep collecting our data and see what turns up! 