Amare Tech SE250 LED - Koniaphostic Grow Journal & Review

[Pat999]

 

[420]

 

[TorturedSoul]

A 250w light gives me 50 watts per square foot in a 2.2' X 2.2' footprint ~ 5 sq.ft

My guess is that your panel would do well in a space that is roughly 2½' x 2½', with the light placed at a height that allows the spectra of the various individual LEDs to mix well. Whether you would be better off with the 90° lenses in place or using only the built in 120° reflector cups would, I suppose, depend on the height that the previous statement places the panel at - if it ends up being at lower than 20" or so above your canopy, it might be best to remove them so that the illumination from the COBs is not focused on an area that is smaller than I mentioned (and also delivering more umol/sec than equatorial cannabis' light saturation point, lol).

Again, the above is purely (well... mostly ) guesswork on my part.

I am not using my full 3'X3' tent – more like 3'X2' with one plant ~ 6 sq.ft.

Err... Why a (non-square) rectangular space for a panel that appears to produce a square lit footprint? Would you not expect to see a more evenly lit canopy - with less areas of drop-off - if, whatever size area you illuminate, it is square? Also, do you have some sort of (hopefully, reflective) divider between that 2' x 3' space and the remaining 1' x 3' space inside your tent? If not, isn't all the light that is reaching any part of the volume represented by that area... being wasted?

For the total 3'X3' tent, I have around 28 watts per square foot.

I think you might do pretty good @ approximately 38 watts per ft.², which is what I used to come up with the area of the space I suggested above. I'm basing that on... Err... I believe that when Brother Fern tested the SE350+UVB (more or less the same design - two more COBs and sets of mono-color LEDs around them, but a generation behind in the COB technology, IIRC), he used it over a 3' x 3' space which would have given him 38 watts per ft.². He produced some nice looking buds. And in one of the pictures instead of using a lighter, bottle, his arm, or even a yardstick to show the scale of the plant... he used a redhead, reaching over her head .

BtW, I've seen recommendations (in regards to watts per ft.²) for flowering with LEDs that gave a range of 25 to 50. The reason that a range was given instead of one number was due to the extreme variance in technology, power output, and penetration amongst all the various LEDs. With your panel having COBs of a fairly recent generation (just behind the 3970?), I am again guessing that the panel would perform well @ 38 watts per ft.², in a square space (that is enclosed by reflective walls) of just a fraction of an inch greater than 2½' on each side.

And, of course, I'll qualify all of the above with, "...depending on various factors such as strain choice, growing/training style (if any), and environment."

 

[jaymu86]

My guess is that your panel would do well in a space that is roughly 2½' x 2½', with the light placed at a height that allows the spectra of the various individual LEDs to mix well. Whether you would be better off with the 90° lenses in place or using only the built in 120° reflector cups would, I suppose, depend on the height that the previous statement places the panel at - if it ends up being at lower than 20" or so above your canopy, it might be best to remove them so that the illumination from the COBs is not focused on an area that is smaller than I mentioned (and also delivering more umol/sec than equatorial cannabis' light saturation point, lol).

Again, the above is purely (well... mostly ) guesswork on my part.



Err... Why a (non-square) rectangular space for a panel that appears to produce a square lit footprint? Would you not expect to see a more evenly lit canopy - with less areas of drop-off - if, whatever size area you illuminate, it is square? Also, do you have some sort of (hopefully, reflective) divider between that 2' x 3' space and the remaining 1' x 3' space inside your tent? If not, isn't all the light that is reaching any part of the volume represented by that area... being wasted?



I think you might do pretty good @ approximately 38 watts per ft.², which is what I used to come up with the area of the space I suggested above. I'm basing that on... Err... I believe that when Brother Fern tested the SE350+UVB (more or less the same design - two more COBs and sets of mono-color LEDs around them, but a generation behind in the COB technology, IIRC), he used it over a 3' x 3' space which would have given him 38 watts per ft.². He produced some nice looking buds. And in one of the pictures instead of using a lighter, bottle, his arm, or even a yardstick to show the scale of the plant... he used a redhead, reaching over her head .

BtW, I've seen recommendations (in regards to watts per ft.²) for flowering with LEDs that gave a range of 25 to 50. The reason that a range was given instead of one number was due to the extreme variance in technology, power output, and penetration amongst all the various LEDs. With your panel having COBs of a fairly recent generation (just behind the 3970?), I am again guessing that the panel would perform well @ 38 watts per ft.², in a square space (that is enclosed by reflective walls) of just a fraction of an inch greater than 2½' on each side.

And, of course, I'll qualify all of the above with, "...depending on various factors such as strain choice, growing/training style (if any), and environment."

If in a tent or have Mylar that is highly reflective most of the light that bounces off does get used just look at under side of plants it gets light from the reflection brother fern can better explain but some does go to waste but most gets reflected back at plant and used.

Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using 420

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hey, Brother! Sorry it took so long to find my way here. Very nice work and very nice light! Unfortunately, I don't have the headroom in my 5' tent for anything that powerful, but have been seriously considering upgrading to a taller one. +REPS!

 

[Richard Richardson]

Thanks for the discussion, Guys Sorry for my lack of updates, here is a photo dump from June, before a July Update

I got 3 females from 4 Regular Sensi Seeds Jack Herer - 2 Indica leaning

and one Sativa leaning.

I took cuttings from the fastest Indica and the Sativa.

Then let them go to see what happens.

Skywalker Kush top colas are ripening and the long, slow process of piecemeal harvesting begins

The buds were hung up to dry in rows like this

Displayed like this

And jarred like this

The regenerating Skush

Some Jack Herer early flowering closeups

Triplet pistls!

More Skush budshots

The Jacks grew as the Skush shrank, then the Jacks were lowered from their elevated position

Apart from this one

The Sativa version grew very tall very quickly

I had to raise the light to the very top of the tent, double wrapping the wires

 

[TorturedSoul]

I got 3 females from 4 Regular Sensi Seeds Jack Herer

Nice! You are WAY ahead of me - would you mind posting a report when those have finished (and have been sampled)?

The Sativa version grew very tall very quickly

Err... Yeah, that's what sativas do, lol.

I had to raise the light to the very top of the tent, double wrapping the wires

I assume you chose not to train it into a lower growth due to a lack of area within the tent? Shame, because it is obviously preventing you from lowering your light to a height closer to the remainder of your plants. Maybe you could place it into a corner and train it to angle towards a different corner? Even if you end up with plants under it, it probably would not significantly shade them - and it'd beat removing the JH (which I hope you do not do).

 

[Richard Richardson]

Hi TS, I never really train plants first time around under 12/12. I like to see how they grow. I did pinch and bend her top stem twice, due to her height, but she bent herself back quickly each time. I have cuttings from each for later. The skywalker kush took up a lot of room for a long time & left the jacks with thin stalks.

 

[Richard Richardson]

Well, here is the July update

The Sativa Jack kept stretching for the Solar Spec, as the Skush continued to shrink

Making much needed room for the Jack Herers, all top-dressed with Palm ashes and Bat Guano.

Sativa Jack flowers on the 12th of July

Just a bunch of calyxes on stalks, all trichome encrusted.

Before going away for a week, I watered the plants thoroughly and added 10 liters of water, before realizing that I had removed the drip tray at some point in the past. I promptly ruined 5 bath towels, soaking up the water before purchasing a cheap air-mattress, which I laid out as a replacement drip tray. This worked fine.

This is the tent before we left, on the 12th....

....And on our return a week later:

I cut the top foxtail off to test and trim her. This is the strain I have been searching for!

The mauled indica jack (Cut for clones) before holiday:

One week later, on 20th July:

And 10 days after that, on the 20th July

Her buds are just bunches of calyxes!

Sativa Jack on the 30th of July. She is a bit top heavy & is starting to lean slightly.

Here is a timeline of the veg tent Gorilla Shorty from the beginning of July:

Skush is in the back left corner, the 2 clones to the right are Sativa Jack, the rest are Indica Jack

On the 12th, I cut all their fanleaves off and added a few inches of water to their (intact) Drip Tray

Ready for Holiday!

One week later, on the 20th of July:

On the 30th, I re-potted the clones, they were rootbound in their tiny pots and had started showing deficiencies.

3 were put into flower, one sativa:

And 2 Indica heavier clones, topped:

The others fit nicely into the Shorty now.

Topped and trimmed again, to encourage bushy growth.

 

[Richard Richardson]

Hello August These are from the 2nd

Sativa Jack was tied to two corners of the tent for stability.

However, by the 4th of august, her top had become too heavy for her stem to support

That'll do, Pig...

That'll do...

Here is a dried bud from the more indica leaning jack herer - Not much to look at, but a great smoke.

Veg Shorty in deficiency recovery mode.

 

[Richard Richardson]

Top o' the Sativa to ya

 

[Mr. Krip]

Very nice, Brother!

 

[Richard Richardson]

Thanks, Mr Krip Here is an update, beginning from 11/08/16, a week after the last update.

This is the Sativa Jack Clone

These are the Indica Jack Clones - I only kept the fastest growing pheno, they were very similar otherwise.

The mostly-harvested Sativa is being left for a while to see if her nanners develop pollen for the early pistils

I am stripping the non-nannered buds off slowly, leaving only the ones with nanners...

These are the bottom popcorn buds on the Sativa Jack - No nanners here - Stripped.

In the Veg Shorty With Skush Clone and the 4 Jack Herer Clones - Stripped of leaves and their tower fan.

It was only moving left to right, but not blowing any air. They felt cheated, so I humiliated them as well ::

13/08/16 - Flower Tent again!

I am liking this after almost 2 weeks in flower, but I feel that my Light is very far away....

15/08/16 - 1st day of the Glass Lenses - Camera still on Automatic setting.

They were very easy to install and are solid glass.

The Jack in the corner of the tent is noticeably darker now!

There's a darkness on the edge of tent...

I just fed them today with some Calcium, Humic/Silicon, Fishmix and Bloombastic on 10 liters of water.

They have a long way to grow; I may still lower the light, but I want to see how the lenses perform first.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Thanks, Mr Krip Here is an update, beginning from 11/08/16, a week after the last update.

Nice! I am in the midst of a heat wave here, and had to press <PAUSE>. But I just put some seeds in for the soak. Possibly that is overly optimistic, but if they germinate, get planted, and break ground in a week or so... maybe it will be cooler and I will not have wasted them (too), and can fire this SE350+UVB up. I'm all for "equatorial light spectrum" - but equatorial temperature sucks, lol, especially when I'm nowhere near the equator, FFS. Being located at the top of the building doesn't help... if I was on the ground, I'd probably have to walk outside to the road to fry an egg without a stove. Oh well, enough moaning .

I like your tent. I most especially like that brand (sticker).

I am liking this after almost 2 weeks in flower, but I feel that my Light is very far away...

They have a long way to grow; I may still lower the light, but I want to see how the lenses perform first.

That does look, to my ignorant eye, to be pretty far from the tops of your plants. I don't have a copy of charts which would show the distribution of light over area at a given height, and didn't find one just now when I searched... I did see that the peak PPFD @ 24" is a whopping 1,600 µmol. Peak PPFD @ 36" drops to 870 µmol, and @ 48" is only 503 µmol. I have read that cannabis likes / can use up to 1,500 µmol (and might have read that the number is slightly higher for equatorial sativas). I don't half know what that means :rolleyes3 , but I think that is in referencing to the total amount of light that the plant receives. Or... something.

I'm going to assume - and I believe it to be a fair assumption, lol - that by "peak PPFD," they mean directly under the center of the panel, and that the amount falls off from there.

Have you got, what do you call them, "light-distribution over area at a given height" charts (probably not their official name ) for that model? They would (I'd think) help you to pick a distance for flowering - and vegetative, too. Which I suppose you would then adjust somewhat based on the response of your plants. Something like these:

Those are for the light I have, not the one you do. Obviously the pattern will be a little different. This one has six COBs/groups of LEDs instead of four and, therefore, the illumination might be more rectangular in spread than yours. But you can see by them that the level of illumination falls off towards the perimeter - and falls off even more with the lenses in place. It also falls off with distance (inverse square law and all that).

This is guesswork as the weather has not allowed me to begin my foray into the White Light Revolution yet, but: I might spread my plants out (training) so that they filled as much of the space as possible, remove the lenses, and lower the panel close to the top of them (not "air-cooled HPS close"). Or I might use the lenses if I could get the plants close together, and not lower the panel quite so much. I think of these things like a MagLite. You can turn the head of the flashlight to focus the beam; you can get a spotlight effect which will illuminate a small spot at a distance. Or you can widen the beam to a floodlight and illuminate an area. I would not attempt to light an area by focusing the light into a spot/beam and then walking 30' back from that area, though.

...and I seem to have forgotten what I was trying to say, lol. But I think of those lenses as tools to help penetrate farther into a dense canopy. If/when it cools down, I hope to do a basic "learn this LED panel" grow - and then, if the manufacturer does not ask for it back at that time (I am assuming that it was not given to me to keep but only to use (although if he never asks for it back, I'll not complain, and will have the opportunity to learn more)) then I would like to do some experimenting in order to more fully learn about LEDs in general and Amare Technologies' products in particular. One of the things I have thought about experimenting... it has two rows of three COBs. What would be the overall effect if I used the 90° lenses on the four corner COBs - but removed them from the two in the middle? My thinking is that I wouldn't get near as much illumination around the perimeter area as running all six open would provide, but it would give a little bit more than running with all lenses in place... and I might not see any negative effects directly under the panel because there would still be lots of light from all the individual light sources, blending. IOW, I am wondering if this would help create a more even light distribution pattern across the entire 3'x3' (in my case) area. IF I get that far, lol, and like what I see, my next (~TS~ becomes an optimist ) grow would probably be one in which the entire nine square foot area is one scrog. Probably with two plants, or even one. I remember way back when I switched from 4' fluorescent tubes to HID lighting that I found out that I could then allow the growth that happened above the screen - the canopy - to increase in height (density not having a problem to begin with) and I hypothesize that the same should be true with a light of this nature, assuming that I can find the sweet-spot between coverage and penetration. A panel that had nine COBs/etc. instead of six, maybe one that was physically larger - and therefore spaced those COBs a little bit more - might be even better. And it would allow the grower to have more combinations in terms of running some with lenses and some without.

Err... Just rambling, lol. Sorry. But if you have or can obtain PPFD charts like the ones above, and posted them, one of the LED experts here who have an extensive combination of knowledge and experience could give you suggestions about light placement (height). That might save you a lot of experimentation... Experimentation is awesome and fun, but while one is experimenting, one's plants are probably not spending that time in optimum conditions. Or... something. Glad to see you are able to grow at this time. Last I checked, it was 91°F outside and the space that was allocated to me for a grow was 102°F - without any lights running :sad: :wilted: . It's funny - or it would be funny if I was reading about it instead of experiencing it - that, earlier in the year I was really hoping to get a grow before it got too hot... and now I am impatient for the heat to slacken so that I can start it. <SHRUGS> I do feel that I am somewhat more prepared now, and a tiny bit more knowledgeable about LEDs - and I have recovered some of the things that I gave away ~three years ago, so in theory the time has not been completely wasted. However... the silent (and invisible ) "P" in TorturedSoul stands for Paranoid - NOT Patience. Rambling again. Have a great day - and stay cool!

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Late but here for the show. Going back to digest the thread!

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Thanks, Mr Krip Here is an update, beginning from 11/08/16, a week after the last update.

This is the Sativa Jack Clone

These are the Indica Jack Clones - I only kept the fastest growing pheno, they were very similar otherwise.

The mostly-harvested Sativa is being left for a while to see if her nanners develop pollen for the early pistils

I am stripping the non-nannered buds off slowly, leaving only the ones with nanners...

These are the bottom popcorn buds on the Sativa Jack - No nanners here - Stripped.

In the Veg Shorty With Skush Clone and the 4 Jack Herer Clones - Stripped of leaves and their tower fan.

It was only moving left to right, but not blowing any air. They felt cheated, so I humiliated them as well ::

13/08/16 - Flower Tent again!

I am liking this after almost 2 weeks in flower, but I feel that my Light is very far away....

15/08/16 - 1st day of the Glass Lenses - Camera still on Automatic setting.

They were very easy to install and are solid glass.

The Jack in the corner of the tent is noticeably darker now!

There's a darkness on the edge of tent...

I just fed them today with some Calcium, Humic/Silicon, Fishmix and Bloombastic on 10 liters of water.

They have a long way to grow; I may still lower the light, but I want to see how the lenses perform first.

I really think a new paradigm is in order for LED and is developing under COB technology. We have to shift because of the way LED operates. We say we have but in general most lights are still in the small box category which is not efficient for LED. I would say that T5 strategies are more in line with LED just with more penetration when we use higher power and secondary lenses. but really LED is its own new paradigm.

We need to realize LED (and any light source) works better spread out evenly. We can't do that with a single HPS (some can be done with a reflector) no matter what the edges get less light. LEDS need to be spatially separate to operate correctly. New cob technology allows that by allowing us to make a light frame and spread the cons out 1/sq foot. We can then dim them and use a watt meter and a dimmer to dial in the watts/sq ft desired. 0-50 at the turn of a dial.
I have seen those house decor lamps that have a set of flexible mic stand material and different lights attached. Why not make a version that will allow you to do that with Cree cobs surrounded by a ring of blue/red/UV/IR 5W LEDs. I would love to have a hanging version and point the lights where they are needed. They could be made of a lighter material like aluminum or magnesium. Other ways to spread the light with cobs would be individual cob units that can be hung separately or a frame made of light metal that has cross pieces every foot to anchor the cobs and supplentary LEDs. This would be great if it could be made as a bolt together unit. Transport and storage would be a cinch. The frame would be great for a light mover. You could tie in fans easily or supplement the light. Damn this is exactly what I need to make. One big point light source will soon be last Gen.

 

[ConstantGreen]

I have seen those house decor lamps that have a set of flexible mic stand material and different lights attached. Why not make a version that will allow you to do that with Cree cobs surrounded by a ring of blue/red/UV/IR 5W LEDs. I would love to have a hanging version and point the lights where they are needed. They could be made of a lighter material like aluminum or magnesium. Other ways to spread the light with cobs would be individual cob units that can be hung separately or a frame made of light metal that has cross pieces every foot to anchor the cobs and supplentary LEDs. This would be great if it could be made as a bolt together unit. Transport and storage would be a cinch. The frame would be great for a light mover. You could tie in fans easily or supplement the light. Damn this is exactly what I need to make. One big point light source will soon be last Gen.

Word. Been too busy to create it but I have this vision of an artistic standing lamp with a root-like stand, tall "stem" and flexible flower necks that house CoB's with petal shades. Could be aimed toward the ceiling in a room for ambient light, or bent down to illuminate a potted plant that's next to it. 6 flower heads should be able to sustain a circle of potted plants. Tap-control for which flower heads are lit and at what intensity.

 

[Stinky Snid]

I think we're getting somewhere with this... Why does the box have to be square? So many possible configurations can be thought of. Canna your pedestal idea is brilliant, but what about a chandelier with extending LED panels. Like a flower and it's petals. Can you picture it? Or am I a little too high. it's only a matter of time. The number one issue with LEDs is coverage would a star shape or a cross be possible to create... Most definitely.

KiG cheers

 

[David Bowman]

Hope all is well in your world.

Is this grow still alive?

We would love to be updated with some pictures and info.

How about posting a 420 Strain Review?

If you need any help with posting photos, please read our Photo Gallery Tutorial.

I am moving this to Abandoned Journals until we get updates.

Sending you lots of love and positive energy.

 

[Hyena Merica]

Where did you go? Is the grow still growing?

Peace, Hyena