Am I wasting my time? Day 30

I'm honestly thinking she might be an auto though, all signs are pointing to it atm, it's hard not knowing exactly what im growing that's for sure haha the bloke I got the seed off said he was a collector and that it was a good seed (this was 3 years ago atleast so I don't remember everything) I would ask him what it is but we have lost contact over the years, that auto flowering thread I posted on the first page explains my plant exactly so that's why I believe it's an auto
 
Whorror said:
I was pretty chonged last night XD not sure if these are really pistils but I had in my mind they were, sorry for the photo quality hopefully you guys can see them. The lower ones have turned brown recently due to the heat im guessing.

when you said hairs @Rifleman did you mean these?

image34876.jpg
image34875.jpg
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way too early for pistils yet... those little normally green spiky things are called stipules.
 
Thanks for that rifleman! Your plants looked really nice, what I have deffs isn't pistils, to me they did look like the start of some haha not sure if it is an auto now but I'll keep an eye on her

Once again thank you Emilya! Those are exactly it! I was so confused about this haha really appreciate the help :) I probably seem really stupid
 
Whorror said:
Thanks for that rifleman! Your plants looked really nice, what I have deffs isn't pistils, to me they did look like the start of some haha not sure if it is an auto now but I'll keep an eye on her

Once again thank you Emilya! Those are exactly it! I was so confused about this haha really appreciate the help :) I probably seem really stupid
Click to expand...

Not stupid my friend just inexperienced. We've all been there. Keep hanging out at :420: and you'll be a pro soon.
 
flexy123 said:
Yep they ALL have those "things" at the branch nodes. I remember a few weeks ago those confused me too.
Better even: Did you know that female plants also produce a few seeds? :) Last time we harvested I was baffled seeing a few seeds too in the jar :)
Click to expand...

not usually flexy... seeds can happen, but not without some stressor or random pollen floating through. If I see seeds in my garden, somehow Emmie screwed up.
 
flexy123 said:
Yeah those were from plants we grow outside/upstairs, so they were definitely stressed a lil (storms, sun, pests), tipped over a few times etc. It was only about 5 seeds total. I read somewhere it's "normal" to find a few seeds.
Click to expand...

I just trimmed 4.5 lbs. of buds and have yet to find a seed.
 
This is going to be a bit of a read so as usual I appreciate anyone and everyone who takes their time to fully read and try to sort my problem out, it has been 10 days since posting this thread just a lil update and some questions...

I've come to the conclusion that this plant (I've named her Sussane :p) is probably not going to be getting anywhere far but I'll make sure she keeps fighting, either way this still gives me the opportunity to learn for next time. I don't care if she buds or not (obviously that would be good and is the main reason I started her) it's just cool knowing that this came from a tiny seed and I've helped it get this far, even if things arent going 100.

She's looking a lil better but not too great I guess, her growth rate seems to have sped up a bit but nothing like I've seen from other people (I know every seeds different but I have to be doing something wrong) I want her to be thriving not surviving. I can't get a photo at this moment because my mate is home from work and let's just say he doesn't agree with it so I've had to leave her at a friends. But comparing her now to the first photos in the thread she's grown one more full set of leaves and the other set is popping it's head out, I'll get a photo asap just want to see if anyone can help beforehand.

Anyway the lower leaves in the first photos have now turned yellow and are practically dead, exactly the same way the first two sets went out. So I believe my problem still exists, The top layers tips are starting to burn as well, I've fertilised her once weeks ago so it can't be a chemical burn. We have 9-12 hours of sun a day and 70% of the day is really hot, should I maybe set up a shade cloth? What's the minimum amount of hours of sun they need to survive? Where I have her at the moment my friend wants to put her under a lemon tree but I am worried she won't get nearly enough sun that she needs but I think being in the sun all day is having its toll.

Im not too worried about the burnt tips at the moment, I'm more worried about the bottom set of leaves dying again! I've witnessed them slowly die over a week so maybe they were going to die either way but from what I believe this is due to the plant sucking nutrients to feed the top growth, I thought this happened from over watering? I did the lift method and felt like after three days it was dry enough for another water especially in this heat, so I watered her yesterday with water ph'd to 6.5, should I be flushing her so the water comes out of the pot when I do this? Or does that not matter (I did give her enough water there just wasn't any water coming out of the holes).

Thanks :)

EDIT:after a little looking around I believe it's still nitrogen deficient if so what can I do about it? Will giving her some 'thrive all purpose fertiliser' help? And how often should I use it? I'm guessing the slow release in my soil isn't enough.
 
Hi Whorror, you are in luck. You wrote a book, and I can't sleep... so I will write a book right back to you!

Your symptoms still sound like you are watering too often. The lower leaves in a young plant reacting this way is a classic sign of overwatering, usually by watering too often. It is too early to be a deficiency of any kind... the plant is not that complicated yet and its needs right now are very meager indeed. Combine this watering too often with not watering enough each time, and your lower roots are never drying out completely and as a bonus, your upper roots are not getting enough water.

Just for grins... try it this following way for 3 wet/dry cycles, and see what happens.

When you water, totally saturate the soil. Get it so wet that no more can be held by the soil, and it starts to come out of the bottom. This is not called flushing... flushing is running 3x the container size of water through that soil. Watering to runoff is how almost all gardeners of weed water their plants, and some people even suggest that later on when you are using nutes, to water each time with 10% runoff, just to wash out the salts that can build up from the nutes.

If you water correctly, then the entire container full of soil has something wet and good in it for the roots, and the roots will grow laterally toward that water, in all of the corners all throughout that rootball, trying to find it and use it. You have to tease out the roots in this way, because it is not natural for a plant, especially a weed, to grow in a container. The way you have been doing it, you pour some water in without runoff, which isn't enough to saturate the soil, and gravity quickly drops what little you put in there to the bottom. Your upper roots end up being too dry most of the time, and your lower roots stay under water most of the time since you come along with your watering jug too often.

You really need to figure out this lift method thing. With you under watering, too often, it is clear that you are not yet sure what "light" feels like. Grab another container just like what you are using now, and fill it with dry soil. Weigh it on a scale. Lift it so that you can feel how light it is... almost weightless. This is how light your container should feel before you water the next time. Weigh your container when you think it is ready for watering, and figure out the difference between that and your dry soil container's weight. For grins, fill up a container with that much water weight, and see for yourself how much water is still in there. Trust me... the plant will not die if you let her use up all the water. If she gets in trouble, she will start to wilt from the bottom up. She will most definitely let you know when she wants water. I have seen plants wilt so badly that the main stem bows down to the soil, but a quick watering and presto... she will stand up and look proud once again. Your goal as a GOOD gardener is to get her to right before that point... not quite to the wilt, but really close.

Using your present method, you also have no idea how much water your plant is using or if it is increasing. All you can see is the top of your plant that is above soil, and you have absolutely no idea what your roots are up to. This is because you have no base of reference, but now with this explanation I am going to show you how to "see" your roots. First, start measuring how much water you have to use to get to runoff. It should be approximately 2/3 of the container size if your soil is truly dry. Measure it each time, and watch for your plant to be able to take a little bit more water each time before runoff occurs. An amazing thing is happening when you notice this, because it is the plant sucking up a bit of your water in its vastly improved root system... AS YOU WATER! It is quite the revelation when you realize that this is happening right in front of your eyes.

Along with being able to see that your container magically can hold more water than it once did because of the roots, you have another thing you can track once you can accurately judge water weight with the lift method. If you are having a problem with this, or dont have access to a scale to actually see it, invest in one of those cheap moist/wet meters that you can get at any walmart or hardware store for about $6. Using this long probe sensor, you can actually see where the water table has settled in your container. The meter will show moist as you lower it through the soil, until you hit the water table, and then it will peg all the way over to the right, indicating wet. Now you can actually "see" where the water is and how much is left in the container. Using that meter correctly, you can track that wet/dry line as the plant uses the water, and as you check it daily you will see it descend down into the last inch or so of the container. This is where you should lift up your container and be amazed at how light it is, and marvel that the plant is still living. The last inch never really dries out according to that meter, because the roots being next to each other and the sides and bottom of the container, trap moisture between them, and it will always show wet down there.

Now here is the second really cool thing that you can watch with this method... the rate that this water table falls, your wet/dry cycle, will get faster and faster, the healthier and more robust your root system becomes. At first it may take 5 days for that container to be dried out by your damaged plant, but as it recovers and develops a robust root system, you will see that cycle time go to 4 days, 3 days and finally it will get so fast that you are needing to water every day. You have just been able to "see" the root system expand, and when it gets to this point, it will be time to transplant into the next larger sized container, to attempt to do the same thing... to tease out the roots into growing all throughout your container.

If you can master this wet/dry cycle and learn to correctly water your entire container, and not just part of the roots, your plant will begin to thrive. Right now, the lower leaves are doing exactly what your lower roots are doing... they are suffering.

Now, the tips burning issue... it most definitely was a nute burn if it is as you described. Young plants do not need nutes... and giving them too early or too strong most definitely can kill young weeds. Read the very last lines in my signature to see my very best summary of what young plants need.

Good luck, hope you enjoyed the read! :) --Emmie
 
Hello again Emily! :)

Wow! As soon as I see your name I know I'm going to have something good to read ^_^ Thank you so much, that was very informative. No one could of explained it any better, everything you said made sense and I feel like I see a side of plants I've never seen before. I hope you know how much your help is appreciated I can't say it enough, I would of given up if it wasn't for you and the other members of :420: I am going to be re reading this a lot.

I understand the lift method more then ever now, I will try exactly what you have said and see how she goes if you think it will work I'd be a fool not to listen. I'm not going to lie my pot did feel a little heavy after the 3 days but when I put my finger in the soil the first 10cm were bone dry and I saw the burnt tips so I feared that the sun was drying her out. Run-off is what I meant sorry I must of had a brain fart thank you for clearing that up and going into full detail about what each actually means.

I will head over to my friends and get a photo either tomorrow morning or night so you can confirm if it is nute burn or not, but I've noticed recently while walking around the area a lot of the plants are burnt on one side from the sun I feel like she will cook in the sun sometimes (should I worry about that at all?) im not saying this is from the sun I wouldn't be surprised if it was from nute burn now that you've said that.

From memory I was well medicated when I fertilised her and believe I used way too much I don't know the exact amount but it said to use 1 scoop for 9ltrs of water and I think I probably put 1/4 -1/2 scoop in less then a L of water, I know now that that was really stupid I must of been thinking it was like steroids for plants or something lol, I thought I was in the clear though because that was a few weeks ago you'd think that if it was going to do anything it would of already happened, I just actually at this second put two and two together, maybe the nutes went straight to the bottom of the pot and have just been sitting there, when I transplanted her I mixed the soil up that was in the pot with a bit of sand and now she has access to the nutes? Just a thought... But tbh I have only noticed the burnt tips since transplanting her and I haven't fed her anything besides a few drops of Seaweed extract mixed with the first water since transplanting, would you suggest flushing the pot when it finally drys out just to be safe?

I'm interested in that moisture measurer thing will have to look out for one because that will help clarify any doubts I have, I only have 1 pot so I can't compare it to anything at the moment. I'll figure something out its hard to tell when it's dry with this soil cause if holds so much water.

Another question I should of asked tbh, this premium potting mix I have holds a lot of water due to all the bark and stuff in it, will this effect it enough that I should change soil now? I remember you saying I should of moved her into this premium potting mix once she had a good root system would it be worth taking her out and putting her into a different soil until she does develop strong roots?

This is the first plant I've actually grown (besides maybe a little strawberry bush back when I was 12 haha) so I never really understood how to properly water a plant XD

I should of read your signature a long time ago, couldn't of said it any other way I will forever keep that in my mind! It feels wrong not to say thank you one last time, you have taught me so much and I look forward to see how she turns out now :)

Don't feel obliged to write a sequel to your short story but I do enjoy the read :)! If I forgot to reply to anything I am very sorry, currently smoking on some dank Power Plant ;) - Whorror
 
As usual, Em hits it out of the park.
I don't know if she will agree with this, but I water my plans by putting them in a container slightly larger than the pot (like another pot). Then I water from the top down, and also let the water soak in from the bottom. Water slowly and continue watering until anything you add at the top, is increasing the water in the outer pot. You will usually see and hear small bubbles being released from the soil. Now the plant is correctly and completely watered. Remove from the outer container and tip her from side to side in order to get as much of the water left inside to drain out.
That little lady is WAY too small for any sort of fertilizer. That explains the leaf tip burn. The yellowing of lower leaves and light color are most likely due to being over-watered. She has been drowning and her roots cannot take up the stuff she needs from the soil. Your soil isn't ideal because of the time-released fert's. You don't have any control over what she gets. Osmocote has nutrients in it. You shouldn't need to feed her anything else.
As to heat and light, if you are comfortable, so is the plant. MJ likes full sun, but they also like consistency. Don't give her 9 hours of light/sun one day and 15 hours the next. She will grow with 9 hours, or less, but she is going to start flowering way too soon with short days.
She's had a rough start with the mites and over-watering so sit back, let her recuperate and keep an eye out for those mites.
 
Glad to help... if I wasn't sitting here writing, I would no doubt be getting in trouble somewhere else. It makes me happy to give back now that I am able, and pay forward the help that was given to me when I started out.

your soil is fine... actually high water retention is a good thing if you know how to manage it correctly. Some soils are more sandy and allow more flow through and less retention to avoid problems like you are having, but I don't feel those soils provide as good of a buffer, or the richness of organics, that a good soil mix can provide. You will be fine now... you know what to do. Don't second guess your soil when you now know what the problem is.

ps. i saw your edit asking about the nutes. absolutely not. Again, look at my last lines in my signature regarding nutes... even if you added them right now, your plant would have a hard time using them, and if the roots were in good enough shape to uptake them, it would surely burn the plants. A pat on the back for diagnosing nitrogen deficiency, because that is exactly what it is... the roots cant uptake the needed nutrients because of their damage... but not every deficiency is solved by throwing chemicals at it either. Fix the problem and the symptoms will go away... I promise.
 
Thanks guys! Sorry for the late reply and thank you,

Hey Major! Appreciate the reply mate, I definitely have not heard of that watering method before (but then again I'm obviously very new to this:p) it sounds like it's a good way to know if you've fully saturated the pot, I'll see how I go with just directly watering it until there is runoff but I will definitely give this a try sometime:). I knew I shouldn't of fertilised her I was just getting a little impatient and didn't know what was actually wrong with her, trust me I won't be so silly again. I know what the problem is now so let's see how she goes! Only time will tell.

Ah! This is probably another reason for the stunned growth I have changed her position so many times I think she's been moved between 4 or 5 places around my back yard and I am always moving the pot to have a good look at her. Not sure if this would effect it or not but I'm used to seeing her now it was just something new and very interesting to me.

Now about the heat, when I say it's hot I mean it's not comfy to be outside at all. the last two days ive been sweating just from standing out side (I'm a reasonably fit person) and it's only going to get hotter. I was talking to my dad about the weeds that were growing around and he reckons soon they will be dead soon because it does get that hot here closer to December. I never thought of this but its true, even everyone's grass is usually dry around that time.

Mites seem to be everywhere around my backyard I looked at 1 weed and it had atleast 100 visible ones chilling all over the weed, they are little red/orange mites anyone know anything about them? They were the same type that were calling my plant home a month ago so I'd like to be prepared because I feel like they will po

Thanks for clearing that up Emilya:) don't worry I deffs know not to add anything to her now and I didn't think a sandy soil would be good that's what I had her originally in when she sprouted, I'm going to keep using the mixture of sand and osmocote. Btw I checked her tonight it was dark and the torch I was using wasn't that great but those yellow leaves and the burnt tips are now completely dry but the rest of her is looking better then ever, she is green again thanks to you! :)
 
Had a look at her today... Things aren't looking too well, some of her leaves seem to be mutated might be from the neem oil I used weeks ago im not sure but she only has 1 set of leaves thay aren't yellowing now, she's been in direct sunlight and hasn't been watered for 4-5 days but the pot still hasn't dried out! Its been roughly 6 weeks now and my mates two week seedling is about to have more sets of leaves then mine, I've decided I'm going to keep her alive and see what happens but for now I'm going to start over from a fresh seed with what I know now and pray that it's female, Might even start a grow journal for it. Thank you everyone that's helped me with this plant special shout outs to Emilya, Major PITA and rifleman, you guys have been a huge help and I wouldn't of got this far without you, even if she didn't go so well I feel confident about this next attempt! I will keep you updated with how she ends up going, I'm also attempting to grow baby hawaiian woodrose so fingers crossed that goes well :)
 

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