AKGramma's Perpetual Grow

TorturedSoul said:
You could always try cutting a piece of "coarse" (with holes which are still smaller than your media, but not by much) metal screen a little larger than your hole, maybe ¼" to ½" larger all the way around, holding it with something that will keep you from getting burned, heating the screen up until it is glowing red, then pressing it (using your holding tool plus something else) into place on the inside of the container until it cools. It'll probably melt its way into the inner surface of that container and be more or less a permanent part of it afterwards. Plus, the only force acting upon it will be the pressure of the media, so even if the job is not perfect, it should work.

Oh, I am assuming a reasonably thick container, such as a plastic trash can or bucket. I wouldn't try this with a disposable cup or soda bottle, lol. Or if I did, I would make sure to not heat the screen anywhere near as much. If you find that you haven't gotten it hot enough, you can always heat it a little more and try again, after all.

That would allow you to use your lightweight medium all the way to the bottom instead of having to use something like gravel. As my brother says, "Work smarter, not harder," ;) .
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Another idea to eliminate heating, just make the 3" or 4" wide collar big enough to fit snugly inside. The few particles that bypass the screen will be easy to deal with.
 
You could also line the bottom of the bucket with some weed-blocker cloth to the depth of the drain hole. I'm thinking Tead's right though, and this is less of an issue as the medium settles, and even if it clogs, a quick poke with a chopstick should open it right up.
 
sweetsue said:
tead's right though, and this is less of an issue as the medium settles, and even if it clogs, a quick poke with a chopstick should open it right up.
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^this^
 
I am waiting for the 2nd hempy pot to drain. The big bag of Perlite I got from Lowes was courser, so didn't come thru the hole. And it wasn't as dusty. But the vermiculite I added is very fine and washed through the hole. I hope after a couple of flushes this, too, shall pass!

I want to have everything ready before I rinse off the soil from the next juvenile. This one will also go into a 2 gallon kitty litter jug. But the next two will go into the new waste baskets I bought today.

I need to use something smaller for the OGK clones, however. They are still in their 24 oz containers and are growing in their typical Sativa manner. Low and slow! Do you think I should plant them in the final pots anyway, even tho their roots arent long enough to reach the bottom?

I rearranged the flower unit so I can fit two hempys in with the two bins. It looks like the combination of 2 Mars 300's and 10 23W CFLs stopped the "light stretch", and the ladies look very healthy.
 
I'm gonna jump in here and say yes, plant them in their final pots. Eventually their roots will hit the reservoir.
 
TY, Sweet Sue! I just finished potting up Juvenile #2. She is draining into the sink. Her medium is mixed vermiculite and Perlite, which should hold the moisture better. Once most of the soil was washed out, her roots went to the bottom, too.

Not sure I have the energy to up-pot a third juvenile tonight. But I sure like that Perlite! It's not at all what I thought it was going to be. I had the pre-conceived notion that it would be all staticy like styrofoam beads and be all over the place. This stuff behaves itself, even dry from the bag.
 
I find it easy to work with. You have to be careful what you breathe, but I'm 62. I have an extremely healthy immune system and a supremely positive attitude about my health. I don't stress about things like this.

I've also found, like Tead and lexort, that the perlite stays moist for a surprisingly long period of time. I run my no-tills on SWICK reservoirs that are filled with perlite. I can leave a plant in flower for a week and come back to a happy plant with proper planning and watering.
 
I forgot to say with the coco hempy you need a perlite res like this.. i did use a peace of flyscreen but now i dont worry because i found courser perlite

20150911_170307.jpg
 
Rhet: It took me a while to realize that you set the rootball upside down for this pic. So it's 3" perlite on the bottom (with the screen) and coco on top of that. Interesting variation! :thumb:
 
AKroughneck said:
What were you using for plant food while growing in dirt? And what do you plan on using with the perlite?
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In dirt, I am using Miracle Grow All Purpose liguid plant food. it seems to have most of the trace elements in addition to NPK. I plan on using the same in a more dilute solution for the hempy. I use the same for early flower, then switch to a homemade sugar daddy solution of epsom salts for Mg and molasses. I also use Super Thrive, and plan to continue it for hempy. For perlite, I won't be using the molasses, because there won't be any soil bacteria.

I did a label comparison with the more expensive part A, B and C of the nutes labelled for Cannibus. All three quart bottles would cost me $45. The MG costs around $4. MG is going to have to do.

EDIT: My tap water is high in Calcium, so I don't need to supplement with calmag. The epson salts will do.
 
AKgramma said:
I did a label comparison with the more expensive part A, B and C of the nutes labelled for Cannibus. All three quart bottles would cost me $45. The MG costs around $4. MG is going to have to do.
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The cost involved with supporting a company that is in bed with Monsanto is, IMHO, higher than just the (dollar) price.

I might - at great need - use enough MG to finish out a crop grown in soil. Maybe, lol. I don't think I'd ever use it in a hydroponic setup - which is pretty much what a "hempy bucket" is; notice that the "sweet spot" in terms of pH for them is ~5.8.

I may have mentioned this before, but if one writes polite letters to five different nutrient companies, one generally receives one or two sets of samples. Try DNF (Dutch Nutrient Formula) for that, they have been receptive to the idea in the past. [Everyone, please give her a week or two to try this before you do so yourself.]

In the past, I might have suggested you try the same thing with General Hydroponics. But Scotts (Miracle-Gro) bought them. It formed a shell/holding company to do so, one assumes so that the MG/Monsanto connection would be less apparent (which worked about as well for them as trying to breathe water - something I wholeheartedly wish they would do).

Err... [/RANT]

BtW, there are "single-part" nutrient types, or even "component" products that can generally be used by themselves, if one does not wish to mix a nutrient solution out of multiple components. I suppose that this might limit one's options. And it may not be the best, because certain elements (nutrients) tend to combine to form insoluble compounds if mixed together in high concentrations (IOW, all in one bottle), so IDK how they manage to include everything... but some people have used such products for years, so they must work.
 
In the past, I might have suggested you try the same thing with General Hydroponics. But Scotts (Miracle-Gro) bought them. It formed a shell/holding company to do so, one assumes so that the MG/Monsanto connection would be less apparent (which worked about as well for them as trying to breathe water - something I wholeheartedly wish they would do).
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Didn't know that... thanks.

SNS had a line of powdered nutes... 2 part. I, personally use Osmocote+ and the Dyna-Gro 2 part line (partly because they're cheap).
 
Tead said:
SNS had a line of powdered nutes.
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I can't believe I forgot to mention SNS (Sierra Natural Science) - they are a forum sponsor. Their products are all-natural. They have pest control, fungicide, plant care, and... fertilizer products. They graciously donate a pretty sizable set of products for each of our three "...of the Month" contests each month, and they do give out free samples.
 
I love you all, but I must disagree. :Namaste:

Rant for rant:

So you all are recommending I spend 3 times the amount for nutes just because of their sales tactics? Who is going to buy for them for me?

I do not think that MJ growers boycotting MG is going to break the corporation. Millions of people buy MG products because they can afford them. The elements are the same, no matter WHO formulates the solutions. You just have to supplement where needed and watch the concentrations of your solution.

Of course, I will continue to research the proper nutes for hempy/hydro and adjust accordingly, but I need to do it as economically as possible. I don't sell, so I don't receive any compensation for the money I put into this hobby. I barter labor for pot. It's the best I can do in this economy, and my retirement income.

But then, I've been wrong before....;)
 
On a lighter note, I took a tip from Rhet and put just Perlite in the hempys for about 5 inches, and then filled it up with the Perlite-Vermiculite mix. I just spent two hours mixing the new medium, up-potting juveniles, and rearranging the two veg areas to better distribute lights. Oh, and vacuuming up stray medium off my grow room floor! :laughtwo:

I found that it was easier to mix and wet down the mix in a separate bin first, then transfer it to the planters. THEN I drill the hole, and let the water seek its own level.

Still have one basket draining, and I needed a break. I think I have enough Perlite for one more planting after this one, so that will make 2 - 2 gallon jugs and 6 - 4 gallon waste baskets from one large Perlite bag and one small Vermiculite bag.

I think I'm going to get some monster plants out of the 4 gallons!
 
AKgramma said:
So you all are recommending I spend 3 times the amount for nutes just because of their sales tactics? Who is going to buy for them for me?
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Err... I grew cannabis for three straight years using nothing but free samples. Thanks to the Internet, I did not even have to buy a stamp (or envelope). Although, IIRC, I did have to pay shipping. Once. I did spend several hours searching for nutrient companies, composing an email (which I used for all the requests, only changing the company name references), and had to wait a few days for replies and anywhere from a week to two months for all of the samples to arrive. But... three years ;) .

AKgramma said:
I do not think that MJ growers boycotting MG is going to break the corporation.
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You are probably correct. Especially if most of them choose to not even bother trying. <SHRUGS> It is a personal choice - and I will respect yours. I just do not feel like adding to their coffers, their cash reserves (which, after all, allowed them to purchase one of the top two hydroponics nutrient companies on the planet), their profits, or their stock dividends.

AKgramma said:
Millions of people buy MG products because they can afford them.
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I would counter that more people probably buy the because they are available at just about every department store on the planet, lol. Mom used to use them because she went to the store one day, asked what she should use on her plants, and the sales droid told her that they had all kinds of Miracle-Gro stuff :rolleyes3 .

AKgramma said:
The elements are the same, no matter WHO formulates the solutions.
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<SHRUGS again> I never cared for the ratio of nitric, ammoniacal, and uric nitrogen that it had. (No, strictly speaking, those are not elements, lol - they are compounds.) Sure, elements are the same... But one does not generally feed the "bare" elements to one's plants; even in hydroponic grows where one feeds the roots directly instead of the microorganisms in the soil, those elements are generally parts of compounds (and chelated).

OtOH, Miracle-Gro does have far less heavy metals in it than it did 20+ years ago. One might choose to complement them for that - but I'll save my praise for the various environmental concerns that caused regulations to tighten ;) .

One thing about Miracle-Gro, and not just it but all "single-part" nutrients, is that it makes it impossible to adjust the ratios of the various micro- and macro-nutrients that a plant requires throughout its life cycle. What a plant needs changes drastically from seedling to harvest - not just in terms of gross amounts, but in the ratios involved. Yes, Miracle-Gro has a "1:2" ratio in terms of phosphorus to potassium. But then it includes way too much nitrogen for the flowering phase, lol. Some people look at a plant that is well into the flowering cycle, see deep (, relatively) dark green leaves and think, "Oh, what a healthy plant." But most see a plant that has nitrogen levels which are way too high :rolleyes3 , even approaching nitrogen toxicity levels in some cases. That is just one example of why a one-part nutrient is not a great idea.

AKgramma said:
Of course, I will continue to research the proper nutes for hempy/hydro and adjust accordingly, but I need to do it as economically as possible. I don't sell, so I don't receive any compensation for the money I put into this hobby. I barter labor for pot. It's the best I can do in this economy, and my retirement income.
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I can understand your motivation, being poor myself. I have even gone into a WalMart twice this year <SIGH> . Still, there are reasonably priced nutrient solutions (pardon the pun) out there. Many indoor gardening shops and even some nurseries will mix and sell their own "house brand" of nutrients, and those are generally quite inexpensive. Most indoor gardening stores receive regular shipments of samples from the companies whose products they carry (or those who want them to carry their products) for the specific purpose of giving them out to people. If you live in the woods, that may not be an option - from my location, a visit to such a store would be considered a "day trip," so I realize that not everyone can head across town (or across several towns) and walk into one. As I have mentioned, many companies will send people samples absolutely free (or, at most, for the cost of shipping).

There are also "brand-name" nutrients which don't cost all that much. I personally have never used Botanicare's CNS17 line. But I saw a thread a few years back in which someone actually bothered to calculate its cost per (mixed, ready-to-use) gallon versus Miracle-Gro... and, you're correct, the Miracle-Gro was cheap, lol - it cost two cents less per gallon. If one is doing warehouse grows with 10,000-gallon nutrient tanks, that difference in cost might be significant; with small personal grows, I would think it would be much less so.

In any event, I will type/rant no more on the subject unless asked. I hope that you have successful and happy grows, regardless of the nutrient brand that you use.
 
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