Air stone in the reservoir!

[gr865]

I have an air disk in the bottom of my rez, I also have a 550 gph pump for recirculation and to aid my Torus XpH cannister maintain pH.
My question is if I am moving the solution with the 550 gph pump do I need the air stones? From what I have read moving the water with a pump provides as much O2 as air stones.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[bluter]

I have an air disk in the bottom of my rez, I also have a 550 gph pump for recirculation and to aid my Torus XpH cannister maintain pH.
My question is if I am moving the solution with the 550 gph pump do I need the air stones? From what I have read moving the water with a pump provides as much O2 as air stones.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

it depends on whether you waterfall your recirc or not.
at any rate it generally can't hurt to add the air. the one draw back is it does pump heat in as well. most find the amount negligible though.

 

[gr865]

it depends on whether you waterfall your recirc or not.
at any rate it generally can't hurt to add the air. the one draw back is it does pump heat in as well. most find the amount negligible though.

Yes I noted the increased temp of the rez.
I have taken it out of the rez and going to check the temp again this evening.
The return from the controller of the Grow and Flow waterfalls back into the rez but that is only once every 4 hours. Doing further reading I found an article about moving water and I do not believe I need the air stones.
Going to go without the for a bit and see how it goes!

 

[TorturedSoul]

I have an air disk in the bottom of my rez, I also have a 550 gph pump for recirculation and to aid my Torus XpH cannister maintain pH.
My question is if I am moving the solution with the 550 gph pump do I need the air stones? From what I have read moving the water with a pump provides as much O2 as air stones.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I've read and have been told that the vast majority of the actual oxygenation occurs at the air/water interface, in other words, at the surface of the body of liquid. That - in the case of airstones and suchlike - it's not the actual presence of the air bubbles rising up through the liquid but, rather, the process of them bursting at the surface. DISCLAIMER: I have not actually tested this, because I have not had the ability to measure the level of dissolved O₂ for many years (and did not avail myself of that opportunity when I did, because it meant a drive to the lab where a buddy worked, and the results after time had passed would - I assume - not have been the same as the results would have been, had I been able to test on-site, as it were).

As has been mentioned, you'd need a "waterfall effect," releasing the liquid above the surface, so that it created a disturbance at the surface. For best results (IMHO), the liquid should be directed at that surface with some degree of force - either by releasing it from a great height and allowing gravity to accelerate it (not feasible), or by increasing the flow rate / pressure (possibly feasible?). Either method should increase the disturbance at the surface and, therefore, provide a greater oxygenation effect.

I used to add inexpensive aquarium power heads to my DWC reservoir setups, primarily to take advantage of the Venturi effect and inject air into the nutrient solution flow. When I did, I never bothered to remove the air pump and 'stones, instead using both types of devices, in concert. While it is true - in theory - that a person can have too much DO in their nutrient solution, I have always assumed that, with consumer-grade devices and the sorts of setups that we typically run... that this state is more or less impossible to attain (and I have yet to be proved wrong). HIGH levels of DO enables the plant to be a more efficient feeder (allowing for a lower EC), enables the plant to tolerate higher temperatures (IMHO) than otherwise, and provides a generally healthier environment for it (again, "IMHO").

By the way, how is your Torus XpH cannister model performing, and are you happy with it?

 

[Addo]

I have an air disk in the bottom of my rez, I also have a 550 gph pump for recirculation and to aid my Torus XpH cannister maintain pH.
My question is if I am moving the solution with the 550 gph pump do I need the air stones? From what I have read moving the water with a pump provides as much O2 as air stones.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thoughts incoming,

You must aerate the solution, the only way in which that would not occur is with a recirculating system. Something like a drip or waterfall system. However, it is recommended that you use an air stone at around 18lmp to properly aerate your roots in DWC. Your water pump is circulating water, think of it as a propeller, its simply churning the water. The oxygenation comes from bubbles bursting above the water. So, while your solution is being mixed well, it's not really breaking the surface.

I can tell you from experience that removing the oxygen is a mistake, but that also depends on if you are running beneficial bacteria or a sterile system. In my case I had a seven-gallon reservoir that I was giving 48 hours to stabilize. I ran some beneficial bacteria in it, but this time around I chose not to oxygenate the water. Within 48 hours my 500 plus gallon pump was covered in hair like residue, and my RO water had white chunks floating in it. Now, any normal person would have thrown this out and restarted but I chose not to. I added another strain of bacteria to the water, divided it up, aerated it properly, and prevented light leaks. My water is now clear and feeding my five white widows without major issue. I do not suggest this.

Hope this helps.

 

[gr865]

Thoughts incoming,

You must aerate the solution, the only way in which that would not occur is with a recirculating system. Something like a drip or waterfall system. However, it is recommended that you use an air stone at around 18lmp to properly aerate your roots in DWC. Your water pump is circulating water, think of it as a propeller, its simply churning the water. The oxygenation comes from bubbles bursting above the water. So, while your solution is being mixed well, it's not really breaking the surface.

I can tell you from experience that removing the oxygen is a mistake, but that also depends on if you are running beneficial bacteria or a sterile system. In my case I had a seven-gallon reservoir that I was giving 48 hours to stabilize. I ran some beneficial bacteria in it, but this time around I chose not to oxygenate the water. Within 48 hours my 500 plus gallon pump was covered in hair like residue, and my RO water had white chunks floating in it. Now, any normal person would have thrown this out and restarted but I chose not to. I added another strain of bacteria to the water, divided it up, aerated it properly, and prevented light leaks. My water is now clear and feeding my five white widows without major issue. I do not suggest this.

Hope this helps.

TS,
I am adding a piece of PVC pipe, 3/4" x 3.5' that has two 90 degree fittings to aim the solution down and create a waterfall effect. I will probably put it on a timer an run the pump for 15 minutes or so every few hours.

The pH Perfect is working, and it sits right next to the recirculation/waterfall pump. It maintains my pH at 5.9 to 6.15. I add just a touch of pH down every three to four days to get the pH down to 5.75/5.8 and let it float up which takes about three days +/- to get back to 6.15 or so but has not risen beyond the 6.15 mark.
I plan on switching it out with Torus's new Toroid system when it comes available.
I am about to do my 2nd reservoir change tomorrow. Have no slime in the rez but am getting that bit of odor like the rez is turning sour.

Few pics
The rez, upper 3/4" line to controller, lower 1/2" line is return and waterfalls into rez, creates anti syphon.

Solution rolling from circulation pump.

Circulation pump at the 2 O'clock position with the XpH sitting next to it @ the 12 O'clock positon.
The pump to feed the controller is in the 6 O'clock position.

The four plants that made it. Their roots on two of the plants have just reached the solution when the controller is on.
That plant at the upper right by the fan had it stem double over and I did not think it was going to make it but it is trying.

 

[gr865]

Few pics of the waterfall recirculation system.

Static, with fill pump for Ebb and Flow system, pH probe, waterfall pump and piping for recirculation and XpH Perfect.

Recirculation waterfall pump running.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I wonder if it would make a difference if you added a couple of threaded adaptors to that, and then screwed on faucet aerators? Don't they sort of break up a stream into lots of little ones, even though it still looks more or less like one?

 

[gr865]

I wonder if it would make a difference if you added a couple of threaded adaptors to that, and then screwed on faucet aerators? Don't they sort of break up a stream into lots of little ones, even though it still looks more or less like one?

Good thought, but I would worry about plugging, even though I use nothing to plug them.
Considering using a Banjo fitting,

BANJO Barbed Hose Fitting: For 1/4 in Hose I.D., Hose Barb x NPT, 1/2 in x 1/4 in Fitting Size, Hex

Adding them to the two downspouts will put out a stream to shot into the rez to create more agitation.
The amount of agitation created without the fittings is fairly heavy. Should provide plenty of O2. May try and borrow an O2 meter from that city water department, I live in a very small town.

You think this would produce enough O2?

 

[TorturedSoul]

You think this would produce enough O2?

I think enough DO is when you chain a miniature cinder block to a mouse's leg, throw it in your reservoir - and a half hour later, the thing is still dragging the block around on the bottom of your reservoir, trying to figure out how to escape .

But it looks like a higher degree of surface agitation than some of the five-gallon DWC "with an airstone" setups I've seen here over the past 11 years or so. If plants are healthy, they're able to grow - and yield - well at a slightly lower EC than seems to be average these days, and tolerate heat well... then, yes, it's a good DO level.

Did you think of the idea, or see it in use?

 

[gr865]

I think enough DO is when you chain a miniature cinder block to a mouse's leg, throw it in your reservoir - and a half hour later, the thing is still dragging the block around on the bottom of your reservoir, trying to figure out how to escape .

But it looks like a higher degree of surface agitation than some of the five-gallon DWC "with an airstone" setups I've seen here over the past 11 years or so. If plants are healthy, they're able to grow - and yield - well at a slightly lower EC than seems to be average these days, and tolerate heat well... then, yes, it's a good DO level.
!
Did you think of the idea, or see it in use?

TS, Another analogy!
Two mice fell into a vat of cream, they paddled and paddled until one gave up and drown. The other continued to paddle hard and fast and soon the cream turned to butter and he walked out of the vat.

I read years ago about moving water, that just the fact of moving water creates enough oxygen in the water to support life. Look at a mountain stream and the life it creates.
During my coco/perlite growing days I had a 27 gallon rez and used a small fan to create turbulence on the water surface which served two purposes, aerate the water and help keep the rez cool.

I posted this pic on another forum I visit. This was my pump just turning the solution over.

A friend from that forum suggested a waterfall, and this is how I pictured a waterfall!
Since my first thoughts the other day I have added two 1/2" nipples and cocked them to an angle.

What this does is create a vortex effect in the rez. This seems to be working fine.

Currently running this every 45 minutes for 10 minutes. Will adjust times as needed.